Is the war with Libya making you rethink travel to Europe?

Libya has neither an airborne nor an amphibous capability.

My husband is thinking about retaliation with a terriorist act against a plane.

Libya would have to get in line behind all the other butt-heads that have the same idea.

No. I have a friend who lives near the coast in Oregon - a couple miles inland and a couple thousand feet above sea level. When the earthquake hit Japan he and the wife packed their car and drove about 100 miles inland to be safe from the tsunami headed their way from across the Pacific. When the 12-inch wave finally made shore, they felt safe enough to return to their home. Maybe he and your husband know each-other?

No, never. Look at all the other terrorists attacks around the world, London tubes, India, etc. I for one refuse to be held "hostage" to what might or might not happen but that is just my opinion.

The last time we bombed Libya was April 15, 1986. The first possible hint of retaliation was a hijacking on Dec 5, 1986. That's nearly 8 months later. So, since May is only two months from now, you'll be fine. With their track record, you may want to reconsider Thanksgiving travel.

I have friends who have canceled travel plans to to visit Libya because of the violence. Not sure why you would cancel Spain and France.

Perhaps the real question is which of the remaining 191 countries should we attack next? My vote is for Canada so that we can grab Toronto. I mean, shouldn't the best city in North America actually be in America (no offense to Norma – I'm sure Montreal is nice, too).
:)

I think everyone in Libya is too busy fighting each other to worrying about killiing you at this particular moment. But like Ed said, there are plenty of others that do, and they aren't going anywhere, so resign yourself to never traveling if that's going to stop you. A high school trip to France of mine was cancelled after terrorists blew up that Pan Am flight over Scotland in the 1980s, because the parents/teachers were afraid of more terrorism. I wonder if any of them are still waiting.

Michael my vote is Nauru.

In the 1980s, when mentioning trips to London, it was "But what about the IRA?" In the early 1990s, it was "But what about the war in Bosnia", then in the late 1990s, it was "What about the war in Kosovo?" In 2002, it was 'What about the Madrid bombing?" In 2005, it was "What about the London Underground bombing"? Only a few months ago, it was "What about the riots in Greece?" I wasn't traveling back then, but I'm pretty sure in the 1970s it was "What about the Baader-Meinhof gang" for Germany, "What about the riots?" for Paris in the late 1960s, "What about the communists?" in the 1950s, "What about the fascists?" for the 1940s (OK, I'll give them that, the 1940s was not a good time to travel to Europe...), etc. going back to the 'What about the Carthaginians?" during the Punic Wars. Look, somehow the entire population of Europe avoided complete extermination from all of these disasters, I really don't think a civil war on another continent will be anything more than a blip on your travel plans. Unless Libya unleashes the dreaded Barbary pirates on the world again! If you want 100% reassurance, I would suggest spending your vacation locked behind closed doors and barred windows.

Bags stolen in Brussels, rude police in Paris, Canadians hating Americans, Chicago cops speaking Cantonese, and now Libyan terrorists thwarting retired folks' vacation plans...this place is coming apart at the seams. That's it...I'm never leaving Des Moines again.

Revolution in Libya or no root beer for sale across the Mediterranean in Italy......what to do?????? I'll take my chance in Libya. I've heard A&W is readily available!

If you are really worried about being injured during your trip, don't drive to the airport. You are more likely to be injured on the drive to airport or in a taxi in Europe than any other place.

I think anytime someone travels to a place that is unknown there might be a little apprehension/fear...maybe this is just a good reason to justify it. Have two European trips planned this summer and no I am not rethinking it.

What if you canceled your trip to Europe and something happened to you at home? You get into a traffic collision, you fall down the stairs or as the theme of this thread, terrorists attacks in your city and you're where it happens? Don't let others control your life or it's no life at all.

That does it! I am definitely dropping Libya from my travel plans for this summer. By the way, what part of Europe is Libya in?

The anti-American sentiment was much stronger during the Bush-Cheney years than it is now. I believe that statistically you are less safe driving American freeways. You have said how he feels but not how you feel. If he doesn't want to go, and you can afford to go with a Rick Steves tour, I recommend doing that. I have been on several, where I didn't know anyone, and I was always made to feel so welcome.

Right before our trip last October, everyone on this side of the pond seemed to be abuzz with supposed terrorist acts that were being planned against western Europe. Despite the chatter and even warnings from the State Department, our trip went wonderfully and I am glad we never gave a second thought to abandoning something we'd been planning for over a year.

"The anti-American sentiment was much stronger during the Bush-Cheney years than it is now." Huh? Going by my averages only, since I have no way to count days: during the Bush presidency, I spent two years in europe and saw zip anti-american sentiment. Nor during the Obama years, nor during the Clinton years, nor during the other Bush years, nor during the Reagan years, nor during the Carter years . . . . I was only a kid during the Eisenhower years, so I might have missed something. I wan't there at all during the Truman years. Maybe there was some during the Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Ford years but I was mostly in other parts of the world then and didn't get to europe that often.

...crickets chirping.................................................................. You'll be waiting a while, my friend.

Spring is here on the RS board. Last year volcanic ash, this year Libya.

We were in London for at least 1 of the IRA bombings- survived. We were in London for the 7-7 bombing (just missed being on the tube at the time of the explosion by seconds). Survived. I, too refuse to let terrorists "rule" me. I do take reasonable precautions, but I won't be limited by "created" fear.
I live in the only American city to have 2 nuclear power plants less than 20 miles from downtown. You should have seen the black hawks flying around on 9-11. My school (I was the assistant principal) was near the fuel depot we call tank town (gasoline storage for the east coast) and not far from the airport and very near one of the nuclear plants. Talk about an interesting day! A few years later, I even had to meet with Homeland Security about our school's emergency/evacuation plans. They were very complimentary and said I seemed to have put alot of thought into things. But then, I asked THEM questions- and they had not even thought about some issues I raised- and they had to tell me they'd get back to me! I do not "trust" the government to keep me safe. I do what I can and go on with life. Too many other things have made me limit my travels (family health issues, etc.). I'm not going to give in to "them"- WHOMEVER they are.

Ambrosia, It appears that the consensus on the HelpLine is 100% in favour of travelling to Europe, regardless of the current situation in Libya. To answer your question, I have NO concerns about travelling in Europe, and events in Libya (or elsewhere) will have absolutely no effect on my plans. I didn't let the riots in Greece disrupt my travels to that country last year, and I had a fantastic trip! I'm currently planning my European trip for this year, and the current problems in Libya (or other countries in the middle east) aren't causing me any apprehension at all. Your profile doesn't indicate where you live, but as the others have pointed out, your risks are probably greater in your home area than in Europe (aside from pickpockets of course - be sure to wear a Money Belt!). Hopefully these replies have allayed your husband's worries about your European trip. Happy travels!

Hmmm, concerned? I don't think so! I'm off to Nairobi sometime in July. I probably won't get too close to the Somali border though.

Libya? Naaah! I am more concerned that the "fanny" pack is making a comeback and will inevitably be paired with jeggings and white sneakers. That thought scares the piss out of me.

I live in Europe and travel here. I agree with those posters who say that if you let fears of world events stop you, you will never go anywhere. I have a healthy respect for the dangers out there and do not minimize them, but continue to live my life and enjoy traveling using the most reasonable precautions I can. I don't believe there is reason for the Original Poster to cancel her trip. That said, I am dismayed by the number of posters who feel the need to respond with sarcasm and to belittle the OP's concerns. I think it is quite reasonable for travelers to read the news and then be concerned about traveling to a place that seems to them to be very much closer to danger than their hometown. The OP came to this board for reassurance. Isn't it possible to give that reassurance without ridiculing the fear? I think we'd like to encourage people to come here and ask questions, wouldn't we, which is the point of the HELPLINE.

This has nothing to do with anything - just a memory ... my first trip to Europe was April of 1986. My high school Spanish class went to Spain. I recall that we had to first make a stop in the canary Islands and then into some other airport to avoid Libya's airspace. There were tons of soldiers with machine guns. I think I was almost as excited about the seeing machine guns as I was about all the sangria we got to drink in Spain. There is always something going on and, like somebody else said, you'd hate to change plans for nothing.

D.D. Well said, I couldn't agree more.

Thank you D.D. I appreciate the support. My husband is really concerned about traveling. While I am not afraid, I really wanted other peoples opinion.

To Terry and D.D: Yep, my thoughts exactly. That's why I will never publish any of my travel logs here. Too many "nose in the air" travellers ready to jeer and ridicule other's views/questions and opinions. I hope the Original Poster doesn't cancel her trip. Europe will ALWAYS be a target for terrorism due to history/politics, so if one waits for the terrorism to go away, one will be waiting a VERY long time.

Think about how many people there are up in the air at this moment over the US. About 300,000. You've probably got more chance of winning a lottery than getting blown up in a plane. It's certainly more dangerous to just drive to the airport than to get in a plane. If you cancel your trip and go to work instead, there is more chance of being involved in a pile-up on the freeway than being a victim of Gaddafi. Roger

I don't know if anyone would deny that Libya has successfully targeted a U.S. airliner before. Consequently, if Gaddafi survives, I think it is not unreasonable to wonder if he might consider striking out at an adversary again. But I agree with the posts that say this is a minimal risk at the present. The Libyans are just too busy to do the type of sophisticated planning that we would all hope this type of attack takes these days. In the scheme of things, it is also a minimal risk in the future: Security is better and there are lots and lots of flights so the odds are in your favor should airlines be targeted again. It is human nature to think about these things, even if we should really be concerned about the greater risk of being killed in traffic. There have been books written on the subject, such as The Science of Fear: Why We Fear the Things We Shouldn't--and Put Ourselves in Greater Danger by Daniel Gardner. I think the Helpline puts way too much emphasis on worrying about theft, for example, and I've been mugged (in the U.S.). But I understand it.

Hi Ambrosia...we are also travelling to Europe in May...the thought did cross our minds but to be honest, it doesn't concern us very much. It's not about being careless, to be very frank...the state of the world has been about the same for a number of years now (ie: there is always a war going on somewhere) and doesn't look to change much in the near future....go on and travel and enjoy yourself. Have a great trip!

Ambrosia's fears are not unfounded. For example, I refuse to enter any government building in the entire state of Oklahoma or the bordering states of Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Missouri, or Arkansas because of the terrorism risk as in seen in 1995. Hey, my precautions are just as logical as not going to Europe over Libya. :-)

To all those who expressed honest opinions, thank you. I have been reading & contributing to the Helpline for over 3 years and it always amazes me how rude people can be. I personally am not worried about traveling, it's my husband. I was just looking for some opinions to share with him. Let the crickets stay where they are there is no need to be snarky!

I have a trip planned for Switzerland in june and have not even thought for one minute about cancelling the trip. I have more fear of the so-cal knife and gun club than any place in europe.

The way I look at it... Ever look at the pictures of Earth taken from space - all nice and blue and green? Do you know how many poeple are down there? Answer: lots. I'm just a miniscule speck on the surface, along with gillions (that's a scientific term) of other miniscule specks. The actual chances of anything hitting ME are also miniscule. Now, If I'm extremely drunk, driving 140 MPH, and drive into a stand of mature oak trees - my chances are far from miniscule. Probabilities. Perhaps you'll be killed in a terrorist attack at your favorite restaurant where the two of you go to console yourselves after deciding to cancel your European trip... Go To Europe. Can I promise you anything? No. Am I going (and closer to Thanksgiving, BTW - wink)? Absolutely. **Does he have any particular fears? NOT 'something might happen'...Something might happen to ME in a few minutes when the next UPS jet that flies near my home on approach to the airport has trouble and flies into my house instead...Haven't we all heard of just this type of thing happening? Yes. (come to think of it, it DID happen at that very airport about 11 years ago) And it will happen again. But in a few minutes I'm going to eat dinner and then go read a book on my Kindle. I'm planning on being back on here tomorrow. No promises. And my apologies to those who might dread the thought of my being back here tomorrow ;-) Probabilities.

@Kathleen... I really hope you will not be afraid to post on this forum in the future. It's just best to ignore the ignorant responses and take the advice that you can use. I have been on this site more lately because I am planning a number of trips and have been overwhelmed with some of the details and I can tell you I am shocked at some of the rude responses. Really people, if you don't have something positive to say to help the poster then just keep quiet.... if you don't understand the question and can't ask them to clarify it in a polite way, then don't post. Chances are if you didn't understand the question you don't have the answer, and someone else will. And while I am at it, are we supposed to take the label 'Ricknik' as derogatory? It is his site after all.

I absolutely would not cancel a trip to Europe, because of Libya. My beliefs are......when it's my time to go, it doesn't matter where I am.

Careful - most people would look at someone with 1000+ posts and assume HE'S a Ricknik...;-)

Ambrosia, you've probably heard by now that the Eiffel Tower was closed for a while today due to a "suspicious package and phoned-in bomb threat". Or perhaps you haven't heard...because this type of thing happens occasionally, especially around 'high-target' monuments. The story was over about the time it started. As with pretty much all of the other times, they found nothing (or, maybe they always find bombs, remove them without incident, and SAY it was a false alarm so that the public doesn't freak out - I can't say because there's no way for me to know). Anyhoo, the point is that this happens. How many times do you hear about an American airport being evacuated due to security concerns? All the time. I don't know anybody that freaks out and refuses to ever fly again; it's just understood that these things happen. If anything, it's just looked at as a pain in the rear to deal with and nothing more. Same thing - these people didn't get to see Paris from the top of the Tower, and that's a bummer. Seriously. But maybe some bored 15-year old from Nashville was responsible for today's events; he didn't want to go on this dumb vacation with his stupid parents...
(cont.)

(cont.) Next week it'll be the London Eye...then a train station in Spain...then The Uffizi Gallery (where there actually was a 'successful' car bomb that killed 6 people and injured several others 18 years ago - how many people reading this knew that? and yet we all go)...then Oktoberfest... I realize Europe seems VERY far away and 'foreign', and - especially if it's your first trip (been there) - you can't help feeling a greater loss of control than you do when moving around in your own home town, but once you hit the ground there, I think your fears will vanish. Europe won't be The Unknown anymore. (truth time - my husband and I actually made out wills before our first trip MANY years ago; most guidebooks recommended it...where did they/we think we were going?!?) Go. Enjoy the fruits of your planning. Please let us know how you feel once you're there.

Don't have much to add except for the fact that I live here and there is nothing different today than there was last month or last year or the year before that. Simply business as usual, no enhanced terrorist threats, no travel warnings, no extra security anywhere. If you are really concerned though, check the Dept. of State websites. They will have travel warnings for specific countries if they feel there is some sort of danger. Perhaps that will give your husband peace of mind.

"Don't have much to add except for the fact that I live here and there is nothing different today than there was last month or last year or the year before that. Simply business as usual, no enhanced terrorist threats, no travel warnings, no extra security anywhere. " Yup, pretty much the same for me. Of course, Germany doesn't border the Mediterrean like France and Spain do, but I haven't heard of anything different for these countries either. But I did witness a disturbance last Friday on Thalys (took a trip to Rotterdam). There was a couple who were yelling at the conductor, insisting that "We paid a lot of money for our rail pass, we shouldn't have to pay anything extra to ride this train!" They had to be escorted off the train at the next stop. Unfortunately, yes, they were American. Yet another example of "Caveat Emptor" for rail passes...

Here are the current State Dept travel warnings: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html You can click on each country for specific information, some are not as severe as others. There are no European countries on the list. Note: these are long term warnings. If you are interested in specific safety information for each country, there are pages for that too. Here's Spain's: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1024.html

And the national security threat for the U.S. was what exactly? If we can justify attacking another country just because its leaders pursue violence against their own people, then when are we going to attack Pakistan, Syria, Israel, or any other number of countries for that matter? No, I suspect corporate interests (as per usual) determine our foreign policy and military strategies. If Ralph were President, we wouldn't be discussing this topic. Crickets? As for the original post, of course you should take your trip without worry. You are no more likely to be blown up over the Atlantic in May than you would have been back in January. Have a great trip!

As regards to the Americans who created a scene and had to be escorted off the Thalys train...that's why you don't argue with officialdom (Beamtentum). I understanding their feelings. I went back and forth with the DB clerk in Viersen Bahnhof in German who told me that I couldn't get on the Thalys in Aachen for Paris regardless of having a Pass. So I bought the ticket. The moral of the story: With the Pass you avoid Belgium by outflanking it, go from Frankfurt to Paris.

I figure if it's time for my number to be called, I'd rather go while in Europe than in an accident on my way to work. I hope these posts help your husband feel better about going.

@ Tom, "We paid a lot of money for our rail pass, we shouldn't have to pay anything extra to ride this train!" I suppose there will always be people (of whatever nationality) that don't read the Guidebooks or prepare themselves with the "right information" prior to travelling in Europe. As I recall, the information on reservations being mandatory for some trains is supplied with the Railpasses, so it's not likely they read that either. Hopefully they'll find their way to the HelpLine prior to their next trip (unless they're so incensed by this experience that they decide to take a punitive stance and not travel in Europe again). I concluded a long time ago that there's no point in arguing with officials, at least if one wants to have an enjoyable and stress-free holiday. It's usually futile anyway. @ Ambrosia, I'd like to "second" Eileen's suggestion. After you arrive in Europe, let us know what your impressions are (and of course those of your husband). Cheers!

"We paid a lot of money for our rail pass, we shouldn't have to pay anything extra to ride this train!" Sorry to hijack a bit, Ambrosia, but I'm going to suggest these people knew EXACTLY what they were doing...they just didn't want to be bothered; the line was too long at the ticket counter is MY guess, or one of them overslept, etc. Then, it's a very short leap (for SOME people) to decide the rules 'shouldn't have to apply the THEM'. There's an awful lot of people with Feelings of Entitlement... :-( (and you'd be surprised how many people go to Europe having never read a guidebook - boggles the mind; 'we didn't know...' waah-waah) Oh, and to tie a bow on the Eiffel Tower story - here's a quote from one of many news stories today: "It had been the fourth evacuation because of a prank call in several months, authorities said." C'est la vie...

Ambrosia, I don't blame your husband. I was so looking forward to our trip this summer to Malta which is right off the coast of Libya and now I am questioning whether to go or not. I have a 4 year old daughter and things are time sensitive since my grandmother is getting older and she never met my daughter. However I am terrified of flying because of this situation going on in Libya. I always keep on top of the latest news by watching CNN. Gadhafi has stated that he plans to attack passenger aircraft by suicide bombers. I understand going on with our lives but lets also not put our blinders on and realize the current situation. Gadhafi is not to be trusted. He has killed people before by what happened in Scotland he is able to do it again...Our plane would have to stop in London as there is no direct flight to Malta. I feel like right now it is too close for comfort and I don't want to be in denial of what is going on....I not only have my life to protect but that of my family. In my opinion I would cancel the trip and plan on going somewhere local.. Your husband is a smart man. Natasha

I know it is cliche, but thinking like the above post is exactly how terrorists win. Might as well lock yourself up in your home and never leave.

@ Natasha, I tend to have a much different opinion on the subject. Given the "time sensitive" circumstances you mentioned, my suggestion would be to take the trip to Malta, as I'm sure you'd all have a wonderful time and it would be a priceless lifetime memory to cherish. As your Grandmother is getting older, it would be better to take the trip NOW rather than waiting! I've already got my tickets in hand for my trip this year, and I'm not concerned in the least about travelling now, even with the current situation in the middle east. A few things to consider.... Don't be too concerned with any threats from Gadhafi, as he's a "blowhard" and it's highly unlikely he'd ever be able to follow through with them. The world of aviation security is far different today than it was at the time of the Pan Am flight in Scotland. He and his "goons" have got considerably more important things to worry about at the moment, so I doubt he'll have the time to give much thought to attacking others outside of Libya. This is not so much a question of "putting blinders on", but rather assessing the risks and determining whether they're credible or not. I feel the risk from Libya is low to non-existent, so this will not change my travel plans. One has to be careful not to take the media reports too seriously, as they tend to exaggerate some things and don't always present an accurate picture of the real situation. I definitely agree with Michael 1 on this point! If one lets vague threats of terrorism dictate travel plans or anything else, the bad guys have won! Ironically, you might actually be safer on a flight to Malta than you would be driving in N.Y. Cheers!

Compare the odds of getting into a traffic accident versus the odds of being a victim of a terrorist attack. Your chances of the latter happening are orders of magnitude smaller than the former. How many of us avoid automobile traffic specifically because we don't want to get in an accident?

Thanks for your response, DD! I hit on this discussion because I was thinking the same thing as Ambrosia! I'm up for adventure, but I'm bringing a husband who isn't an avid traveler as well as two kids on their first trip to Italy. I agree that fear of terrorism shouldn't affect a trip to Italy. But, my real concern regarding the war in Libya is the refugee crisis. Ghadaffi is currently threatening to make this a real headache for Italy(and in some places, I think it already is a problem) Perhaps would that make you folks in the know change your itinerary within Italy if you need to plan your trip now when it's impossible to know how things might be in June? Thanks for the insights ... :)

@ Barb, "Perhaps would that make you folks in the know change your itinerary within Italy if you need to plan your trip now when it's impossible to know how things might be in June?" I'm already well into the planning for my time in Italy, and NO this doesn't change any of my plans AT ALL! I highly doubt that I'll be "rubbing elbows" with refugees from Libya in the Museums of Rome, the trails of the Cinque Terre or on the trains. They'll likely be put in a camp somewhere (perhaps in Sicily or Calabria?), and I doubt that most travellers will even see them. I'm sure the Italian authorities won't just release them into the country to "fend for themselves" (or put them on welfare). I still see no valid reasons to alter my plans in the least. Cheers!

Ditto what Ken said. Heading to Italy (7 weeks, not that I am counting) and not even a remote consideration. I am kind of scratching my head trying to understand how refugees present a risk. Somewhere, somehow, Somebody must have kicked you around some. Who knows? Maybe you were kidnapped, Tied up, taken away, and held for ransom. It don't really matter to me, baby,
Everybody's had to fight to be free,

Most of the long-time (since WWII) folks with Libyain ties are around the Gulf Of Taranto. Other folks have been easing in there since the early seventies. Due to historic/familial ties, it would seem this is where the latest refugees would go. The Gulf of Taranto is a long way from the Amalfi coast and Tuscany. Gaddafi has no ability to project power internationally.

Natasha wrote "Gadhafi has stated that he plans to attack passenger aircraft by suicide bombers. " Barb wrote "Ghadaffi is currently threatening to make this a real headache for Italy" Where did you get this information, I'd like to read about it. Everything I'm reading he says is directed at his own people.

What does your husband think will happen? Sounds like he is looking for an excuse or is too paranoid.