Is the off-season getting shorter??

I’m happy we pushed out Spain trip back to October while we could. Posters here told me that September was still very warm and luckily I listened. We were planning on traveling to Paris in May but I think now we will look at April

Fine with me…..we prefer April and May and September and October to avoid the tourist rush, especially after Covid……has never been a problem before…..maybe those months will have some increased traffic but the trip over the pond during those months is still so worth it to me!

Interesting. Thanks for gifting the article.

The majority of tourists in Europe, are other Europeans, so its a lot easier for them to shift their itineraries. Most Americans are somewhat trapped by the limits of school vacation periods, except for those of us past that point.

The article points to hotter summer weather (attributed to climate change) as the driver of this "elongating" of peak tourist season. No doubt that is a factor, but they fail to mention the other, dramatic change in the "tourism climate" which might be an even bigger factor: the explosive growth of the worldwide tourism industry. There are just more people traveling. That is a trend that has been rising even faster than mid-summer temperatures in Rome and it's nothing new -- tourist numbers have been going up, up, up for years (decades). It's been most dramatic and harder to ignore this summer in Europe (after the relative absence of tourists during the depths of the pandemic), but it is a long-term trend that has been very obvious for decades -- and not just in places that get hot in July and August.

Those customers gotta "go" somewhere -- so if a place (eg Venice, Prague, Barcelona, etc.) is effectively at -- or over -- capacity during the "traditional" busy summer months, time-shifting happens. This is nothing new, and savvy travelers have long looked to what we used to call "shoulder season" to find fewer crowds, lower prices, and yes, cooler, more comfortable weather -- for an overall better experience in popular places. And even in places you may never have heard of.

As someone who does not enjoy crowded places, I've sought out crowd-free (or at least low-crowd) places for a long time. Finding those places gets more challenging every year. I don't enjoy excessive heat either, so I tend to favor places that don't get super-hot. For me, going to Rome (or fer cryin' out loud, Sicily!) in August is just not something I would ever contemplate (and yes, I know, some people have constraints on when they can go away, so for them it may be August or stay home).

I keep wondering if this summer's tourism meltdowns and unprecedented crowds across Europe, like intense heat waves, are another sign of "the new normal" we will have to get used to, or a one-time "perfect storm" triggered by a combinations of pent-up pandemic tourism demand plus pandemic-induced labor (and supply-chain) shortages. Most observers keep referring to it (the crowds and meltdowns) as a short-term phenomenon that will pass as everything gets back to (something like) normal. I sincerely hope it passes, but I worry this is how it's going to be going forward.

Worth noting: the current spike in tourism that has nearly brought down many systems across Europe seems to be driven primarily by North Americans and Europeans. But there are plenty of traditional tourist customers still stuck at home. Tourists from China, once highly visible everywhere (but especially at the top tourism magnets across Europe), are still not traveling in large numbers. Russians are traveling some, but not like they used to, and they're mostly going to places that are not part of the pushback against their invasion of Ukraine. Plenty of other groups of people who were major contributors to the industry's success pre-pandemic are still largely absent. Once all those people start packing their bags again and hopping on cheap flights...I wonder if the tourist crowds we have witnessed this summer will continue and even get worse. To many people, the pandemic has driven home the meme of "you only live once" so you might as well get out there. I'll be keenly interested to see how things go next summer.

Me, I will continue to seek out places that are not world-famous tourist magnets, in less crowded but still fascinating (and cooler) locations. You can have Rome in August, I'm doing my part to mitigate the crowding there. (Tip: You can get good gelato in lots of places around the world now).

David, I noticed you didn’t share with us your secret, less crowded places. 😊

The majority of tourists in Europe, are other Europeans, so its a lot easier for them to shift their itineraries. Most Americans are somewhat trapped by the limits of school vacation periods

Europeans are also trapped by school term time commitments although taking a weekend break to somewhere in Europe is a lot doable than if travelling from the US.

David, I noticed you didn’t share with us your secret, less crowded places. 😊

Carrie, you are very observant.

I guess it also depends on the destination. For Amsterdam for instance, April was never a shoulder month. Quite the contrary actually. At that time of year the tulips are in bloom in the nearby tulip fields and the Keukenhof is open, resulting in April being one of the busiest months for tourism in Amsterdam and surroundings.

I keep wondering if this summer's tourism meltdowns and unprecedented
crowds across Europe, like intense heat waves, are another sign of
"the new normal" we will have to get used to, or a one-time "perfect
storm" triggered by a combinations of pent-up pandemic tourism demand
plus pandemic-induced labor (and supply-chain) shortages.

Not a day goes by that I wonder what the new normal is going to be, and when the new normal is going to start. Thanks for sharing. I love articles like this that detail how different factors can cause a ripple effect. Shining off my crystal ball, I predict the new normal will not be known until after the 2024 travel season. Maybe. Probably. Probably maybe.

I worry a bit after the chaos of this summer that those who can will shift travel toward May, when I always travel. But there will always be places to go that are not mobbed, and I'm happy to share where I've found them, lol.
Most people are still going to go to the top, famous places no matter what, so I don't worry too much about other places getting overrun. I've been to the Peloponnese, Marche, and Extremadura in May--all were blissful. I've had sites all to myself.
I feel like Rome can wait--one day I'll have extra time and can stay longer, travel at any time of year. I have no regrets about getting out into the countryside while I'm youngish.

Going off-season doesn't mean necessarily that the crowds will be fewer and the trains less packed. Tourists/visitors were both Asians and Europeans.

I did one such trip, started that trip (2014) in late-April , SFO to Frankfurt non-stop, went for two full weeks, basically off-season mainly to Vienna and Berlin. Won't do that sort of trip again, departing so early.

"But is that because you've already done the big sites and now are happy with the second or third division places. Or is it because those places never had any interest for you? I would agree that Rome in August is not ideal, but if the choice is August Rome or never Rome, I'd suggest a prospective tourist bites the bullet and accepts the scorchio weather."

Nice fine point here that I think 🤔 about often. I have 13ish Europe trips that add up to nearly a couple years of vacation travel under my belt. A few years ago I strongly favored less touristed destinations. For some reason I've rotated back to some of the most touristed places, probably because we've started bringing some of our daughter's friends along and they've never been to Europe. And also after a long period of time you forget places need to revisit.

But I do think for sure that my interest in less touristy places depends on having already been to the touristy places. I've been to Venice a couple times, and I will not return on my next trip even though I'm passing right by. If I'd never been though I'm sure that I would go. As such, I try to stay off of my high horse about visiting places Americans generally don't go. It's mostly not because I am enlightened above the rabble, but rather that, as they say, I've been there done that bought the t-shirt.

Of course it takes a certain amount of travel to figure out how to do it well. Family friends just finished their second trip in 3 years having never been to Europe before that. Both times their entire itinerary was one and two night stays, maybe one three night. All in core tourist destination cities. Over a beer I ran my upcoming itinerary past them, and my buddy was like "oh 5 nights, yeah it's a good idea to stay longer in some places" and "next time we are going to go to some smaller towns too."

But is that because you've already done the big sites and now are happy with the second or third division places. Or is it because those places never had any interest for you?

For me it's a mix of both. I've been to many of what generally pass for "must see" or "top ten" list places around much of Europe. Most, but not all of them.

I've come to believe that what others might describe as "second or third division places" are often as good as, sometimes better (or more enjoyable), than any "top ten must see" destinations. They're only second or third division places in terms of marketing and promotion.

For example, I've been over a good bit of Italy, almost all the super-famous tourist magnets. I haven't been to Cinque Terre, and at this point (given over-tourism), I'll probably never go there. And I'm OK with that (although I may have to re-negotiate this with my spouse). There are other places in Italy that are equally charming, even more beautiful and magical, but without the (literal) crush of tourists (and because travel, like life, is all about trade-offs).

I've stumbled across some magical and beautiful places in Italy, places that get tourists, just not the excessive crowds that come to Cinque Terre because of its worldwide fame. I've stumbled across other places (in other countries) that were very different than famous and beautiful Italian places, but equally interesting and beautiful (sometimes more so), and I had some of those places entirely to myself -- not another human in sight anywhere. I am increasingly finding that those trips are the most enjoyable, most memorable.

If you are willing to explore a bit, go places that aren't famous, sometimes you just get lucky, and then you realize that there's great stuff to see and do all over the world, including in places your friends have never heard of, and those places just have not been "made famous" (to them). In fact, that has become a sort of litmus test for me: if I mention a proposed trip, and I receive blank looks (or even eye-rolls) from friends and co-workers, I take that as a good sign. When they ask "Why would you want to go there?", or even better, "Where's that?" I take that as confirmation that I'm probably on the right track.

It's a big world out there. There are plenty of places one can go and have a wonderful experience without having to make dinner reservations, buy a timed-entry ticket, or squeeze through crowds of strangers (though I understand those things are necessary sometimes in popular places). You just have to do a little work to figure out where to go and how to do it. Plenty of people are perfectly happy, in fact thrilled, to be in Rome in the summer, and that's fine. IME it's worth the effort to find new places.

And also regarding the tangential subject of crowding and how touristy places are, lately I've been thinking more about tourist density than overall tourism when evaluating how impacted a place will feel. I think Paris is the most touristed city in the world? But it's a huge city where you can easily not really feel the impact of tourism by steering away from some key spots. Bruges though feels like half the people in town are tourists. Or take a place like Vienna, a more mildly touristed bigger city. I think it's easier to have a less tourism impacted experience there than in places like Salzburg.

The other thing is, I've come around to deciding that I'm a tourist, and that I like being a tourist, and I like going to places that tourists like to go. Nearly always popular places are popular for a reason. Though I do feel like I'm in the know when I'm enjoying my favorite Austrian Alpine valley where I've only once in two week heard English spoken, this is still a resort area. On a smaller scale it is to Munich what Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead are to Los Angeles. There are other places around it that have less or no tourism. But I'm not going to those places, the same way I'm not going to Yucaipa or Gold Bar or Wenatchee for a vacation.

Anyway, a mix of quieter regional tourist destinations and savvy use of bigger more touristed places is my current approach. It seems to work fine during the summer, albeit heat waves can spoil any place once it's close to 40 degrees ....

Hapsburg imperial showpiece Vienna a second division town? No. Not in my estimate anyway. I like Hamburg too but Vienna is like a cozy Germanic Paris, nearly untouchable in culture, architecture and good living.

Not a big fan of southern Europe during the summer, but I understand a lot of people with kids in school are locked into traveling then. Of course all of Europe can be hot as blazes, at times, during the summer. If not for school I would think a lot more people would travel during the shoulder seasons. Everything is better.

Some of the places I've stayed in Paris, etc., would be quite unpleasant with temperatures in the 90s or above. Versailles was like a sauna. I've reached the point in my life where crowds, sweat, and stink are not my idea of a good time.

A friend is now in Switzerland hiking the Alps and that seems just about perfect nowadays.

Of all the trips I have done, two were at the extremes of the calendar, one in late April as mentioned above, and a worse one in Oct of 2019, (3 weeks ) when it was again focused on basically Kiel, Berlin and Vienna. The one lesson learned from that trip calendar-wise is don't go to Germany in October. Even April despite its negatives was preferable than October.

Picking which ever month to do the trip has obviously trade-offs, the pros and cons, The main thing is choosing the trip month is whether these negatives are real or perceived to the point they bother you..

Much more preferable to do a trip in the summer, which is the history of my trips other than these two above.

Call me a pessimist, but I suspect that travel chaos, along with not being able to buy certain items at certain times, house renovations taking forever, restaurants and hotels not being able to staff adequately, and our plans having to be cancelled when we or our families get Covid, are the post-Covid normal. We never realized what an easy life many of us had pre-Covid.