Is my very busy Paris itinerary workable?

I think your planning style is a bit different than mine. Rather than plan, or tentatively planning every hour, consider basing each of your 3 full days on one or two "must-sees," and then the rest "wanna sees." That way, you won't feel like you're having to check all these items off your list. You've bunched up almost all of your museum time into one day. You may get museum'd out that day; can you spread the museum time out more? Possibly Musee d'Orsay on the first full day? Also, do you really want to see all of the place that you have listed? Seems like a lot of places (though not everything, of course, that is worth seeing in Paris - there's so much). And, to link this to your other post re dawn photography. If you're staying close to Sacre Coeur, then you'll be metroing all over Paris in the pre-dawn hours to get to your photography places - I can't speak from experience, as I've never ridden the Paris metro at that time of day, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that unless I knew it would be full of people commuting to work at that hour.

yes i intentionally made wednesday the museum day, because the louvre is open in the night. i could exchange d'orsay with another sight, sure. but i think has to be a place near the orsay to keep the locations close. maybe les invalides? or is that too "museumny" as well? some things are not really necessary. i could live without: - tour de montparnasse (althought seeing the eiffel tower from high and afar is interesting) - opera garnier - museum of natural history and the only MUST sees are: - eiffel tower - louvre - ile de la cite (saint chapelle + notre dame) - arch of triumph/champs elyseés - versailles all the other sights are "wanna sees". feel free to suggest other things worth seeing in paris that aren't listed.

With your busy schedule, I would not recommended doing the Tour Montparnasse. The view really didn't thrill me at all, especially when compared to looking at the city from the Eiffel Tower and La Defense.

any place i should spend MORE time than what i designed on the list?

Fraulein, That is indeed a VERY busy Itinerary! I tend to follow the same approach mentioned by Lexma. I schedule a reasonable time frame to visit "must see" sights, and put the others in the "optional" category. If I don't get to the optional sights, they go on the list for the next visit. A few points that "stand out" in your Itinerary... > One hour is absolutely NOT enough time for the Musee D'Orsay! If there's a queue, half that time could be spent just getting in the door. There's a LOT to see there with some of the best impressionist work, so I'd suggest allocating more time. > Which areas of the Louvre do you plan to visit? It's a HUGE facility, so visiting all three wings in such a short time frame is going to be difficult. You may want to focus on the Denon Wing, which is where the Mona Lisa is located. Are you planning to get a Paris Musuem Pass? Given the sights on your list, that would probably be a good idea. At the least, it will minimize time waiting in queue's. I'm not sure that 3-hours is adequate to travel from Paris to Versailles, visit the Chateau and then get back to Paris for your train to Lauterbrunnen. A train departing Paris Lyon at 14:25, won't arrive in Lauterbrunnen until about 20:30. Be sure to tell your Hotel that you'll be a "late arrival". Where are you planning to leave your luggage while at Versailles? While you've planned in great detail, I suspect you'll find that things may not work out "as planned" in reality. I've found that there are always complications for one reason or another, so even the best laid plans don't work out as anticipated. That's why I've divided my touring into two categories - "must sees" and "nice to see if there's time". Good luck!

If I haven't mentioned this before, BE SURE to wear a Money Belt, as "scammers" DO work the Museums as people are often "distracted" while admiring great works of art.

hello ken. to be honest, the orsay was on my maybe list! i'm not particularly a painting enthusiast, so i figured 1 hour would be enough. if there are big lines, i think i'll probably skip it altogether. i know this must sound like blasphemy for some people! i put a standard 1 hour time in almost every museum. as for the pass, i intend on getting that paris pass that cover over 60 sights and allows free transport in the city center. exactly how useful that pass is with the lines? do you really skip them? as for the louvre, i know it's huge, but i don't know almost anything about what it holds (shocking, right?). i would need to do more in depth research to know exactly what galleries/sections i want to see. seeing mona lisa isn't a priority for me, i'm not a fan of the painting and i hear that area in incredibly crowded. i'm more interested in ancient artifacts, statues, treasures. but i don't even know if it holds treasures. it's just such a huge cliche that i put it as a must see automatically. but i know it's a very dumb thing to do. also good point about the luggage on the versailles trip, can i leave it at a train station? i think it would be no BIG problem if i took a 15h00 train and arrived in lauterbrunnen around 21-22. chaotic, sure, but i think i'd still be able to sleep well, no?

Guten Tag, Fraulein! :) I know the Arc de Triomphe and the Champs-Elysees are on your must-see list, but with your tight schedule, I wouldn't recommend them. The C-E is a bunch of expensive shops and the Arc de Triomphe was a disappointment. I had two and a half days in Paris and I wish someone told me not to bother with those.

hmm, i was planning to buy at least a perfume on champs. it would be my only shopping opportunity with the tight schedule. i don't know, maybe i should cut the morning part on tuesday and do just the night one on thursday?

Most people find the Champs Elysees to be overrated. I think it's only worth a quick look. You can find many of the same designer shops in any big city. I don't know if you've done this type of travel before, but your schedule will be a little difficult to keep up with. I REALLY like art (I have a degree in art history) but I find that I'm only capable of one or two museums a day. Anything more than that, and my head starts to hurt. I generally set a goal of seeing about 3 big sites a day and then beyond that I spend the day walking, eating, observing and resting. Your style is obviously different, but you may want to include a little more flexibility. Sometimes it rains. Sometimes you just don't want to see another painting. Sometimes you just don't feel like standing in another line. Chances are you will eventually make it back to Paris, so it's ok to save some things for next time. I've spent a total of about 20 days in Paris, and there are things on your list that I have not done.

If you are more interested in ancient artifacts and sculptures, then the Louvre has large sections for these as well, and they are less crowded than area around the Mona Lisa. I am not sure what you mean by treasures.

You've left out one of my favorite places in Paris, the Jardin de Luxembourg in the 5th. I like it better than Parc Monceau (atmosphere wise). Not only is it beautiful but you see Parisiennes hanging out and enjoying themselves. It has 2 cafes where you can eat or have coffee, plus lots more. My favorite thing to do in Paris is walking from Ile Saint Louis (my favorite neighborhood) past Notre Dame and along the river to Place de la Concorde and back again. And, sitting in cafes and people watching. Paris is so much more than museums and sites, a person needs to slow down to savor and really experience it.

jardin luxembourg is there, on the 4th day - thusday. so i think i'll remove tour montparnasse and use that time to do a little walking or shopping. treasures i mean royal treasures or anything very precious and rare. i don't know if i'll ever be back. certainly not for a long, long time. it's not cheap to travel from brazil to europe. in my next travel i'll probably want to cover the other half of europe i didn't visit yet: germany, budapest, prague, istambul, etc. that's why i want to make the most of it.

I don't know whether the Louvre has royal treasures. I presume you mean crowns and things like that. It is possible, I have not seen the entire museum, and I have been there 3 times.

The Louvre DOES have treasures,, be sure to check out the Royal jewels,, crystal goblets, bejeweled things of all sort. This gallery is not always open though, but I have been lucky each time I have gone. Also, walk through Napoleons Apartments in the Louvre, it will give you a great taste of the opulence of Versailles on a small scale, chandilers as big as cars , dining tables set with gold etc.. You may also be interested in the Egyptian Exhibits. The Louvre is SO MUCH MORE then the Mona,, its a shame people miss so much.

Fraulein, with your minute-to-minute schedule all I can say is please keep in mind 2 words: flexible and adaptable!

Fraulein,
I like your schedule. I am an ultra planner myself. I always find that my plans end up changing on the ground, but because I have done my homework I am aware of ways to work around complications, so good work! I agree with Ken about the Orsay. We are not huge art lovers ourselves, but both the Orsay and the Louvre are so fabulous that we went back to each in spite of the second visit not being on my itinerary. We really enjoyed Rick Steve audiotours of both. They didn't exactly correspond to the layout, but it was close enough for us to really enjoy without doing any art research at all. The other thing I would say is that the walk from the Arc de Triumphe down the Champs Elysee was really fun in the evening. Lots of people in a fun atmosphere. I would think about switching that part of your itinerary to evening. No matter what, you are going to have a fabulous time!

Fraulein "as for the pass, i intend on getting that paris pass that cover over 60 sights and allows free transport in the city center. exactly how useful that pass is with the lines? do you really skip them?" Please read the RS France or Paris Guide Book which discusses the Paris Pass as opposed to the Paris Museum Pass. If you read lots of previous posts, the Helpline folks also do not recommend the Paris Pass as you don't really need the pass for RER, Bus and Metro rides. But instead buy a "carnet" a 10 ticket package for Euro 12.70. You just add another carnet when you need it. Then just buy the Paris Museum Pass with 2, 4, or 6 days. And YES, the "skip the line" really does work. You go straight to the ticket booth and show your pass!
Note the huge difference in price between the Paris Pass (2 day 104 Euro, 4 day 152 Euro) and the Paris Museum Pass (39 euro 2 days or 4 day 54 Euro) . Of the 7 Special Attractions included in the Pass Seine River Cruise and the Wine Tasting are the only ones to consider. By using the ideas above, you can save lots of money! Bobbie

I'm an ultra planner so I don't blame you for scheduling this specifically, but I don't think this plan is workable. I would be very nervous about leaving for Versailles at 9:00 if I MUST be on a train at 14:00. It's possible, but Versailles is large and confusing (even if you have a museum pass to skip the line, you have to find the entrance for that pass, which I was not able to do). I'd move Versaille to another morning and stick to sites relatively close to your train station in Paris for your last day. You're not really accounting for transit time around Paris at all either. I would rewrite this last broken down more into "Morning" "afternoon" "evening" with one MUST see for each segment and then list nearby "would like to sees" so your trip flows more naturally, allows for more flexibility and transit times, as well as more time spent in places you like.

from my calculations i would need need 3 carnets of tickets. quick math: paris museum 4 day = 54 3 carnets of tickets = 38
wine tasting and river cruise = 42 134, as opposed to 152. however, the paris pass offers a free paris guidebook that can be useful, special offers at some places (a free hot fudge sundae at hard rock café, for example), and the most important imo: the convenience of having everything in a single item, not having to bother with tickets at all. so i'm not sure if the 18 price different isn't worth these small advantages. the 4 day paris pass is currently on sale for 136, but unfortunately it's too early for me to buy it. the trip is 8 months away.

sarah, i would love to walk on champs elysees at night but i would only have time for that if i don't spend any time on the arc itself. like, no climbing, just pass through it and take the train to la defense. but maybe walking on the champs elysees towards the sunset is more interesting than just spending 1 hour standing around on the arc.

when, pray tell, on a whirlwind which only allows the d'Orsay 60 minutes, will you have time to sit down in the Hard Rock Café after having waited in a queue for seating, waiting for your order to be taken, waiting for it to be served to you, and just a couple of minutes to scoff it down? I know that you have your lightning plan down to the second, and of course I do not know your personality other than what I read, but how will you react if things suddenly blow a fuse or you realize how over ambitious you have been? I remember a poster here last year (was it last year?) who was so upset that things were not as she expected them.

In general I agree with what everyone else here has said. I am surprised that no one suggested you go to the Louvre's website to explore the facility and plan your visit there. Here's the English language link: http://www.louvre.fr/en. The first tab is even called, Plan Your Visit. Along with those who recommend an evening walk on the Champs Elysees, I would add that if you can arrange to be there for the rekindling of the flame at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at 18:30, do so. We knew nothing about it, accidentally were there at the right time and it was one of the highlights of our 1st trip to Paris. We watched the participants march from directly in front of us across the street and over to the Arc. When we were allowed to do so, we took the underground tunnel to the Arc and watched from there. It was very moving, especially seeing the veterans carrying the flags of their units. If not this event, I hope you have time for a similar very special experience in the city.

Fraulein, you do realize that you won't need a new ticket just because you have to change lines? In most cases you don't need a new one as long as you stay underground.

Fraulein, please excuse me for being honest but you're really stressing yourself out way too much. If you worry about such little things as metro tickets you're not going to have a vacation you can't control everything and every second of your trip, you will need to go with the flow sometimes.

changed some things in the schedule, removed montparnass, museum of natural history and wine tasting (sadly). with that, the paris pass is no longer an advantage as i can get the museum pass + 3 carnets of tickets + river cruise for around 100 euros. also added café du marché instead of de flore, that is much, much closer to the eiffel area. http://i41.tinypic.com/j7x4ht.jpg tuesday and wednesday is fine imo. on tuesday everything is really close to each other and there's even time to walk to pont alexandre after the café if i want. if something goes wrong, i can always take a metro or even skip the pont and go directly to champ de mars. wednesday is more slow paced, there's free time on the ile de la cite in case saint chapelle and notre dame take longer than expected. the river cruise will depart from notre dame too, and finish also at notre dame. and the louvre is very close. thursday is chaotic. morning is fine, i'll arrive at the orsay early to avoid lines. and 90 minutes is probably enough for someone who isn't a fan of paintings. it starts getting hectic in the afternoon, with little time to see moyen age and the pantheon. in the evening i'll have to rush through champs elysees (if i want to do a walk night), or go directly to the arc (if i want to climb and spend time on it). then there's la defense. is 30 minutes enough to see it (not climb)? or should i delete hard rock cafe and design more time for it? also does it stay open until like 22h? by open i mean lit with the fountains spilling water like you see in many night pictures? because if it's deserted and dark i don't think it's worth checking out. any further advice on what i should change or remove is still appreciated.

Fraulein, Just a couple of things to add to this thread. 1. buy your carnets of tickets one at a time, I'm not sure you're going to need 30 trips on the metro in 4 days as you'll be walking between sites a lot. 2. don't worry about leaving out the wine tasting, have a different wine with each lunch/dinner and you'll get to taste a lot of french wines. Have a great trip!

thanks nancy. from my estimatives i'm gonna need to enter a metro about 25 times during my stay in paris. many travels require more than 1 ticket. for example, just to get from my hotel to the first sight of the day i'm always gonna need at least 2 tickets, and then from the last sight of the day to my hotel, another 2. so in 3 full days, that's 12. on the versailles day i'm gonna need another 1 or 2 to get to a rer C station that has a line to versailles (requires a different ticket). only those travels will eat up more than half the tickets i'll be using! so i'll definitely need 3 carnets. i'll see how are the lines in my first purchase. if they're long, i'll buy all 3 carnets and so i never have to deal with ticket buying again. if there are no lines, i'll buy 1 or 2 carnets.

wow, i had no idea. i guess i'm so used to such terrible 3rd world facilities that something so cool and organized like that didn't even cross my mind. fantastic. 2 carnets will easily suffice then. should be 17 travels in total.

thanks for your advice, barry. i'm perfectly aware that things can happen differently. i worry about tickets because i never ever even took a metro or a train in my life. i need to know exactly what to do and what are my options. i think that the more information and knowledge i acquire about things like transport, logistics etc the easier it will be when i'm there and the less time i'll waste trying to understand how everything works or wandering around asking people where to go to next. it's just a plan. if i have to make cuts on the go i'll do it and it won't ruin my trip at all.

Fraulein, someone recently(I looked back and didn't see it on this thread, but might have missed it!) pointed in the direction of YouTube for videos of how to ride the Paris Metro. I had not realized that even that was YouTubed! You may want to watch some to familiarize yourself with what the machines look like as well as what the expectations are.

Fraulien,, you really should buy carnets one at a time. I use about one a WEEK.. you really can walk just as quickly to some sights, many are close to each other. And you need to learn about the metro... first as you have just learned. one ticket is good for one trip, even if you have to change lines, but , and this is important,, DO NOT THROW away a used ticket untill you are outside the station above ground. At any time a metro inspector can ask to see your used ticket and you can be fined on the spot if you threw it away too soon. Keeping the used tickets in a seperate pocket makes this easier then looking through your pockets at all your tickets( you do realize a "carnet" is not like a booklet of tickets, it will be just 10 lose single tickets, easy to lose0

I don't remember from your prior threads if somebody advised you to look at guidebooks, especially the applicable Rick Steves ones. If they are not available in Brazil they are available at Amazon and in the Kindle form. The reason I mention them is that they are a really good resource for basics such as transportation and Métro. They really are worth a read. If you get the Kindle version you can take it on the aircraft and get some use out of the flight time.

There are two informative websites on Paris that I see no one has mentioned yet, so I will. parisbytrain.com and tomsguidetoparis.com

Thanks Norma, I just added those two websites to MY Europe planning folder. They both look very helpful, hope Fraulein takes note.

nigel i imagine guidebooks are for reading before traveling? or do you guys take them with you during the trip? because i'd much rather plan things in advance, get information, design my own "guide" in something like a sheet to save space rather than taking a book for every city i'll go. bummer about the tickets not being a booklet. i thought they were. it would make storing and transporting them much easier. seems it's really better to buy 1 at a time. those sites are excellent, thanks norma. and thanks everyone for the help!

Fraulein, you really make your life difficult by concerning yourself about "transporting" metro tickets. The tickets are about 1 inch by 2 inches. Stick them in your wallet, put them in a pocket, keep them with your credit cards, whatever. You may as well worry about "transporting" a map of Paris or a piece of paper with your hotel address on it. Furthermore, when you buy the set of 10 tickets, known as a carnet, there is a small discount over buying them separately. And think of the nuisance of having to get in line to buy a ticket every time you go into a metro station, which may or may not have a human being selling tickets.

i meant 1 carnet at a time. to avoid having to deal with 20 loose tickets.