Is it solo travel when...

I have lived in Europe and travelled extensively for work and for vacation. My work travel was always solo, but vacation travel was with my husband, both independently and with Rick Steves groups. Tomorrow I start my first RS trip as a single traveler, my husband having died last winter. In my opinion traveling alone is not the same as vacationing alone and this trip is my experiment in vacationing as a single. Even though part of the time will be with my RS group, there is a good bit of free time on this tour, so I consider it solo travel with modifications.

Patricia: I'm sorry for your loss.

I like your 'solo travel with modifications'!

I have done a lot of solo travel, most of it as an independent traveler. That's the distinction I like to use. Solo means going without a travel partner or group. Independent means making all the arrangements and traveling not as part of an organized tour.

It's possible to be an independent solo traveler, or to do independent traveler with others. It's also possible to do solo travel as part of a tour.

So Wray, by all means tell people you're traveling solo! And enjoy it!

Hi,

Maybe it's in the way one defines solo traveling. If you go over visiting places on your own and independent, you are by yourself hitting these sights, that's what I call solo traveling, staying by yourself, taking the trains by yourself, eating dinner alone at a restaurant or train station, etc, that is my definition of traveling solo. That's what you did in Sweden. Most of my trips are like that, I call that traveling alone/solo, be it 2 weeks or 2 months, when no one else is with you.

When you link up with the RS tour, (20 or so) , you are touring with a group. Even though alone, you're not traveling alone while part of the tour group. Once the RS tour ends then you're traveling solo. Yes, most people don't like talking about travel.

Hi Patricia -- Very sorry for your loss. Good for you for exploring a way to travel after your husband's passing. From what they say about the tours, it sounds like you should meet some very nice and interesting people -- I hope it will be a great experience for you.

Wray -- good question! I see what you mean -- solo, but within the group!! That is a funny distinction. Then add in the to and from and pre- and post- , which may be truly solo travel. Something I've never thought of before!

I guess I would just say "I'm joining a group tour." That gives the flavor of what you're doing. And for those who aren't interested -- too bad for them!! They'll never understand what they're missing!

I agree with Fred, you're not solo when you're part of a tour group. You are solo when you travel alone -- maybe on the flights, or some days before or after the tour, or the whole thing.

My wife and I are about to fly to England together, spend a week there before joining a tour, then when the tour is over she'll fly home and I'll solo for another week.

But who cares what you call it? It's travel and it's fun and informative and broadening (now there's a topic!) however you do it.

Solo tourist? Solo traveler? My head hurts.

It is confusing, isn't it? I, too, don't feel like traveling to/on the tour is solo...and there is part of me that makes me think I am copping out by taking a tour. (I had an extremely adventurous brother so my solo travels have been mild in comparison, milder countries.) However, RS seems like it might be fun, and in Greece it would be a pain to travel to/about all those ruins alone...mountainsides and such. And my husband worries about me when I'm on my solo adventures so...I think I'll just say I'm mostly traveling with some interesting people whom I have not met yet! Wray

I have taken 8 RS tours by myself. I consider myself a single traveler. I.E not part of a couple or a group that is taking the tour. However, when asked I just state I am taking a RS tour. Who needs to know if I am single, a part of a couple, or a gang!!

Bruce... I am getting a headache too.... solo, independent, tourist, traveler??? I remember those conversations!

I would just say I am going on a tour by myself:)

I need a nice glass of wine to mull this over....and try to come up with the appropriate name!

Terry Kathryn, I'll join you for that glass of wine!

Every summer, I travel for a few weeks ("solo"), then meet up with two friends for two weeks ("travel with friends"), then travel for the rest of the summer solo. There is no easy way to explain it.

And except for a few friends and colleagues, people really only want a highlight or two, they are not really interested in hearing about a whole trip (especially a long one).

" Solo means going without a travel partner or group. Independent means making all the arrangements and traveling not as part of an organized tour."

I'm not sure I understand the distinction. It seems like "going without a partner or group" and "making all of the arrangements not as part of a tour" is the same thing. I often travel solo. I go alone, go around alone, come back alone. But on some trips, I meet up with friends, or go do a week at Vaughantown (where I'm not 'traveling' at all, just staying in one spot). When people ask about it, they usually ask if I am taking a tour. I say no, I am going alone, but will be meeting up with friends later, or I will be going alone, but doing a week at VT, also. It doesn't matter to me what you call it, part of it is solo, part is not, but all of it is independent, as far as that goes. I make all of the arrangements and bookings.

Don't stress too much over this. Most people are just making polite conversation and others who might love to travel themselves don't expect you to get too deep into exact details. I love to travel and ask more questions than most when I hear someone went to a place I might have on my radar, or someplace I've been to so I can see what they thought, but even I have a limit. If someone shows me more than 10 photos of their trip, my eyes start to glaze over! When I returned from this year's trip to France, my co-workers asked how my trip was. I literally summed it up in one word "Great!". A few asked if I had any photos. I showed them 3 - all photos that were funny or unusual. Everyone knows what the Eiffel Tower looks like, so I'm not going to waste their time showing them 45 different angles of the Tower taken during the day or at sunset.

If you are getting on a flight to and from Athens on your own and then joining 20 other people for a RS escorted trip, then when asked, you can always just say "I'm going on a group tour" or "I'm going on a guided tour, then staying a few extra days to explore on my own" and leave it at that.

As for when you went to Sweden on your own and others assumed you were going on a tour, chalk that one up to most people being uncomfortable with the idea of traveling on their own without a spouse, significant other, friend, relative or co-worker. Because they aren't comfortable doing something like that on their own, they make an assumption you must also be uncomfortable with that idea so you must be joining up with a tour group.

I wondered the same thing before I took my first RS tour this past Spring. Did it really count as going solo if I was with a group? When people asked me about my trip and if I was traveling on my own most of the time I would make a joke of it and say, "Yes, I'm going by myself, but with other people." :)

All joking aside, I hope you have a fantastic time. I know that I felt very welcomed by the group I traveled with and never had to truly be "solo" unless I chose to wander off and do my own thing. I was the only person on our tour who didn't have someone (spouse, parent, friend etc.) with them and I always felt included, but it was great to have the freedom to spend my free time however I wanted. Enjoy your solo trip, or whatever you decide to call it.

Hi Wray,

I'm also thinking about the RS tour in Greece. Most of my travel is solo and I'm very comfortable with it. But Greece looks to me like a place I'd find too daunting on my own and one where I'd really benefit from having a good guide.

I just tell my friends that I'm traveling on my own and taking a tour.

Which dates are you looking at?

Wray,

I've travelled using both methods, so have considered that question. On years when I'm taking a tour, I always travel on my own both before and after the tour.

This is the way I look at it. When I'm on my own, that's truly "solo travel". During the time when I'm with the tour, that's also "solo travel" since I'm not half of a couple. If I wasn't travelling solo, I wouldn't be paying the single supplement.

Therefore if you're travelling completely on your own with a significant other / friend / family member, then that's all "solo travel".

Chani,

The Athens & the Pelopponese tour is absolutely a good one to take with a tour. I've done that and it was an incredible experience and I learned a lot about Greece. It was also a lot of fun (although I overdid it with the Ouzo one day). Be sure to try Mastika also.

"...they make the assumption you must also be uncomfortable...." And if you are not uncomfortable?

Thanks Everyone. Your responses have been great!

@Chani, I am joining an early spring tour, March 25th, 2017, as I do not like hot weather! And I hear there will be wild flowers...
@Fred, I'm not uncomfortable traveling truly solo at all. I find more people interact with me when I am on my own. I love traveling "solo".

Wray

@MrsEB, Some of my older friends and acquaintances are just not well traveled and we grew up in a small world in the 50's and 60's, IMO. Insulated. I moved out of that world when I graduated from college and chose the city of which much of my family still thinks I moved to the ghetto...just because it is a city and I don't belong to the right clubs, etc. I think it is a choice of energy...I like some. LOL Also, some of them have not and would not travel anywhere without a partner/spouse, etc. And in some cases, I think the husband controls the purse strings, unfairly in this day and age. When my husband, who is older than I am by quite a bit was retired and traveling and I was still working, I can't tell you how many work acquaintances told me they would never allow** their husband to travel anywhere without them. Crazy to restrict people if you ask me, but their lives are theirs. And that's fine, it is their choice. My mother had no problem traveling on her own and I remember her friends, too, thought she was nuts and fearless. Choice of living styles and goals, I guess. They have second homes and stay in a limited, insulated world, I travel instead. On the other hand, I do have friends who travel a lot...but with their spouses, which I have done frequently as well, but now is the time I'll be more on my own. And I am an introvert so I very much enjoy time alone, unlike others that need people every minute. OK, I'm just rambling now about the human psyche...

The first thing people ask me when I say I'm going on a trip alone is "But you'll be with a tour group, right?", and I say no, I travel independently. Sometimes I say solo but that has led to the tour group question.

Wray, I have almost always traveled solo, and I agree, I meet many more people on my own than when I traveled with my husband (now ex-).

@ Wray...My compliments on your answer and attitude. . Bravo! I traveled truly solo on my first trip at 21; no problems still doing likewise now at 66 on this last trip in June.

In my opinion if you don't have a particular travel partner be it a spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, brother, sister cousin, whatever, you are traveling solo. Even if you are on a tour, you are on your own! Sure, you'll meet people a bit more easily, but that doesn't mean that you are traveling with someone, because the next day or even the next afternoon you are with someone else. You alone are making the choices of who you sit next to, who you have lunch, whether you decide to dine on your own. You don't need to consult with anyone. I think people are nitpicking if they say otherwise. When I did my Berlin / Prague / Vienna Tour with Rick Steves arrived early and stayed late for the tour. Was I traveling solo only those two week ends? Of course not! I wandered all over the place on my own before the tour, on the tour and after the tour. I met people before the tour, on the tour and after the tour.

Pam

MrsEB, you may be shocked, but it is true for me, as well, that many people assume that I am taking a tour when I mention traveling alone. I just think it's because they would not consider doing it. I'm not sure why you find that assumption so shocking. Just because no one ever expressed the same to you didn't mean they didn't think it. :)

I'm considering the March 20 tour, for the same reasons you've chosen March 25. I need to be home in early April, so I'm also considering the April 24 tour and wondering if there will still be wildflowers and if it may be too hot.

Are you planning to spend time pre- or post-tour in Greece?

I'm finding everyone's thoughts on the definition of solo travel quite interesting. It would seem usually the description of one's trip probably won't be one sentence... Of course, I love hearing about other people's vacations and ask many questions.
Fred, thanks. Sometimes my mind is broader than other times...LOL
Chani, Too bad, I'll miss you by about 3 days, if you take the first spring tour. I will have 48 hours in Athens before the tour starts, but I am leaving right afterwards as I need to not be away from home quite so long at this time.

MrsEB: I don't think the automatic assumption by the questioner has anything to do with being from an older generation that may have grown up in the 50s or 60s. I'm GenX and have had plenty of young Millennials make the same assumption and when they hear otherwise from me they say "I could never do something like that on my own!". And I've encountered that same reaction in some very large American cities where I have lived in the past, in addition to my current city - so even though you may not have encountered that in NYC, I don't think it has to do with geography either.

The reaction seems to come from those who find the concept of truly being on one's own for an extended period of time "foreign". There are lots of people who are uncomfortable with the idea of dining alone, having no one but themselves to rely on to find their way around a strange neighborhood, figure out which train they need to catch or road to take to get from one city to the next. There are also people who feel there is safety in numbers and traveling solo can't be such a great idea and must make one a target. That reaction ramps up more for some people when it's a country where English is not the primary language.

I will say that I get that reaction more from women then men, so it might be more of a gender difference which is probably why Fred doesn't seem to have encountered that, but other female posters on this board have.

@ Ceidleh....The point you make in your post is well taken. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation, what one is willing to cope with and can tolerate, what the limits of one's comfort zone are. Your comments above are exactly the reasons (and more) why I travel truly solo. I am by no means the most adept traveler when out and about. My sense of direction is anywhere from lousy to satisfactory, it was much worse in my younger days in terms of getting lost on foot in German cities. Regarding safety in numbers, I see that as partially true. The scammers and pickpockets target groups, since a group not knowing or bickering is a sitting duck. On eating alone be it dinner or lunch, I see the Germans , men and women, doing that alone at the food court in train stations like Frankfurt, Cologne, etc.

"I could never doing something like that on my own." If that is a person's view, it's not up to me to dissuade that person. My question is "why not?" Why can't Americans do t what I see done by other nationalities when traveling in pairs (most often), when some can hardly/barely speak English such as at the Reisezentrum I saw this time in June numerous Japanese and Chinese millennials in pairs or threes armed with their smart phone traveling in Prague, Vienna, Frankfurt, etc. What makes Americans (both guys ans women) different that they feel they could not do this type of traveling.? It is true as a solo traveler, you're completely responsible for looking after yourself, getting to the sights , not losing time by getting lost (tell me about that one !), finding a place to eat, not oversleeping, and being alert, keeping track of your "vitals" and a ton of other things. All those things you point out could be seen as negative, which certainly there are those seeing them as negative.

I don't believe I have ever been asked if I would be going on a tour when I said that I'm going to Europe again. They know if I am not going with family, then I would be going alone.

I think I read on this forum once, that only a small percentage of US citizens have ever traveled abroad - something like 10-12% as I recall. Take away the military and Mexico/Canada and it gets smaller. Out here in non-cosmopolitan fly-over country, there are plenty of people who cannot conceive of why anyone would travel to dangerous and exotic Europe, and if so, the only reference point is with a tour. There's a huge socio-economic strata that would not spend the money, when Disney World and Vegas are right here.

Along with that, the idea of a lady traveling alone is still alien to many people. Its not a criticism, just outside their common experience.

I'd like to add that among the Millennial and GenXers who said to me they couldn't do Europe solo were people actually residing in some fairly sizeable U.S. cities including Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington DC and...NYC (although to be fair, the New Yorkers were from Brooklyn and Staten Island and I know Manhattan residents do love to categorize the 'bridge & tunnel' crowd as less 'cosmopolitan').

These same people are able to do solo trips for business purposes to other cities in the US with relatively few problems, but it's the thought of purposely doing something overseas for vacation on one's own that just seems stressful to them. For some, it's probably the idea of having to plan and be responsible for everything with no assistance. For others, it's the thought of dining alone (they are generally ok with eating in a food court or on a park bench alone, but the idea of sitting down alone in a restaurant at a table for a 3 course meal and being served by a waiter throws them off).

For others still, it's the perception a solo traveler, particularly a female, is more at risk when it comes to personal safety. I can't change that perception for them - I can only say from my experience, I typically feel safe when traveling solo in Europe. I went to Paris this summer with a group of friends and quite frankly, felt more vulnerable to pickpocketing in crowded situations. When I'm with friends, we are speaking English. When I'm alone, unless I'm snapping photos or sticking my nose in a guidebook or map, it's harder to figure out if I am from Europe or the U.S. until I open my mouth and start talking.

And for others they think a solo trip is difficult because they won't have someone readily available to talk to. Again, from my perspective, it's actually not that hard to end up in conversations with people when you are traveling solo. I noticed when traveling with friends in Paris this year that my interactions with both locals and other travelers was very reduced when I was out with my pals. Having been to Paris before a few times, I broke off from them on several occasions as they were doing things I had already done on past trips and had no interest in. Only when I was doing things alone did I have locals and other travelers striking up some meaningful conversations with me. It's much easier to approach someone when they are on their own than it is a pair or a group of people.

I've found this discussion fascinating and fun. Thanks everyone for your input.

To respond directly to Wray's question and comments, first I'd say that my friends and family enjoy seeing my pictures on Facebook, but don't travel themselves and can't imagine spending the night much farther than within 100 miles of where they live. In person they ask about our/my trips, but soon glaze over when I/we talk about them.

As for my "solo" answer, I usually say that part of the time I'll be on (day) tours and the other part I'll be on my own. It may be a water-starved AZ thing, but down here most questioners assume any trip I/we take is a cruise. I/we have never been on any kind of a cruise and the only long tour I/we have ever taken was the RS week in Istanbul one.

I keep saying I/we because I've traveled more on my own than with either of my husbands. My latest trip to Europe was 6 weeks in the UK this year. My husband chose to spend that time racing in the Seattle area.

My first trip to Europe was for 4 months in late 1977 and early 1978. I was 31. I quit my job at a university, sold almost everything to finance it and went on my own. People thought I was nuts.

That was obviously before Schengen rules and long before any of the devices and electronic resources we have today, but somehow I managed to make it from the UK to Scandinavia to the Netherlands to Italy to Spain to Greece and points in between before going back to London to fly home.

My mother was terrified, but it was mostly her fault. I was an only child and she and my father raised me to be very independent and responsible. I don't know where my insatiable curiosity about other places came from.

And that brings me to the discussion about women making their way in the world on their own. From the time I was old enough to eat or go to a movie or go camping or stay in a motel by myself, I've done it. It's funny, I lived my first 30 years in Texas, but I don't remember anyone finding it odd that I did things on my own until I moved to Cincinnati.

But I don't really think it's regional. I think it has more to do with the self-confidence that's innate in a person or encouraged by parents or others in a person's life or developed by necessity. Or not.

I suspect that perhaps not all, but at least some of my friends and relatives who say that they'd love to go to X, Y or Z, but ... but ... but ... are really simply scared. Their fear overwhelms any desire to see something in person. It doesn't really surprise me that those folks, along with the ones who say they have no interest in traveling, tend to be the same ones who don't do much of anything on their own. And they also tend to prefer things over experiences, so they find my preference for experiences over things perplexing to put it mildly!

Love this discussion. I'd like to add three thoughts.
1. My choice of words were poor when I said "older friends". By older friends, I meant friends from my youth not people necessarily older than me.
2. I also think traveling alone for business is much different than traveling alone for enjoyment. I know people who have no problem traveling alone for business, who would not vacation alone. There is a reason to be alone on business. There is no reason to feel awkward. However, these same people think if they are alone on vacation or personal time, that everyone is looking at them wondering why they are alone, don't they have friends, etc. They think being alone is a failure of some sort. This perspective is ridiculous for many of us, but not for most I'm afraid, IMO.
3. My daughter is 31. When she was young I watched her friends' families with daughters and there were so many families who had the old chauvinistic attitudes, which would not encourage a young girl, even if well educated, to necessarily be independent. The boys were always asked what they were doing, studying, etc. The first question asked of the girls were if they had a boyfriend. (It really pissed me off!) Anyway I thought this perspective should have died in the 70's, but apparently not. And even now let's just watch the news these days and see the double standard for women. OK....getting off track a bit, but our culture has not progressed far enough to support women to the extent it should. Hence the reactions to solo travel by a large group of society.

Edit: Or really what Lo said!

@ Lo...You were over there the first time in late 1977. I was there also in '77 truly solo from mid-Aug (I learned of Elvis' death when I go to the small hotel on Rue Monge) to late Sept, landed at CDG which appeared fascinating, futuristic to me. Those were the days, still simple, in traveling in Europe. I can well imagine that people thought it was nuts for you to go.

A few years ago CNN reported that 25% of Americans have a US passport. My first time going to East Berlin solo, not as part of a tour, was in Aug 1987, crossing over at Bahnhof Friedrichstrasse with the mandatory exchange amount, day visa, etc. On Unter den Linden where the East German NVA soldiers did their "changing of the guard" routine (Wachablösung) was a small cafe/restaurant close by. An American woman was sitting there who obviously could not read the menu. Equally, the East Germans are not going provide an English menu for tourists. The East German waitress came to her table, upon hearing English, she ignored the woman and walked away. I saw all this, then helped with translating the menu. .

@ Wray...Your points are well taken, very true. "They" have no problems doing a business/professional trip alone but obviously see vacations solo in Europe as a different animal. Most likely, they are more self conscious, and the questions you raise are pertinent. And, what are you to do if you don't have friends? Not go? If it is mainly for that reason, not going has never been the answer for me.

@MrsEB (I must admit whenever I see your name I think of E.B. White, a favorite author, and it makes me smile)--I think perhaps the cause of the almost-always immediate question of "you'll be with a tour group, right?" is mainly that person's own fears of heading off to a foreign country all alone, many simply cannot do anything without a companion, coupled with what may seem like a confusing array of travel options, language barriers, etc.

I also often get "Oh, I couldn't do that, you're so brave! I want to be taken everywhere and have everything explained to me." Which is good to hear, because then I know I'll never consider travelling with these people!