Is European travel trending away from big cities?

that over the past 10 to 20 years it has become more popular for North Americans to visit smaller places in Europe, less popular (though still brimming-over popular) to visit big cities.

Did you check your impression against any real numbers / statistics?

I believe the trend of travel away from big cities might be so. American politics likely has something to do with it. There is a lot of anti-urban discourse driven by the fear of crime, the culture wars, snobbery and other factors. As a resident of a big city for some 30 years, the fear of cities is always present, but it has grown since the 1990s and 2000s. The pandemic almost certainly had something to do with it.

These trends have had a spillover effect on international travel.

When I travel, I like a mix of top tier, secondary and tertiary cities and small towns, too. Among major cities -- those with around 10 million in metro population and 3 million in city population -- I loved London, Tokyo and Madrid. I loved Budapest, Prague and Hamburg in mid-tier cities. Among small cities, I would say Seville, Amsterdam and Dublin were the best.

Yet my fondest travel memories centers on two 100-mile-long hikes I took through tiny towns and the countryside in Ireland, one on the east coast and one on the west coast. Most visitors never see these towns.

No Mark. I'm not writing a white paper for the state department. I'm mostly just up for a little chat with the friendly folk of the Rick Steves forum.

Thanks!

Craig I also live in the city. I'm always happy to get out of the city when I go on vacation, and find myself less attracted to European big cities than when I lived in the suburbs.

So same same. But also might just be a narrow bias!

Hank: Seattle is my favorite American city. I was there in 2011, taking Amtrak across the country. I have a remote connection. My dad was a logger in Washington for two summers in Longview in the late 1940s. Cheers.

Just my impression but I would say no. There's displacement from the most crowded cities to "anywhere else." There's also boredom with the same old same old with the frequent travel crowd.

There has been some emphasis on what RS refers to as "second cities". One example is Porto for LIsbon which I found amusing because Porto felt even busier than Lisbon. I would say, Bordeaux or Lyon might be a good second city/replacement for Paris, etc.

Hank, could it be because most travelers on this forum have hit the big cities, some multiple times, and are looking to branch out.
Or, it could be that a majority of our posters are retired and have more time to travel. If I am planning a 6 week trip to France, it will not be only in Paris. But, if I only have 1 or 2 weeks, it will be to a major city.
I know my daughter is a nurse and it is difficult to get two weeks off during the summer. She has children so that limits her. I’m sure other people are in this category.

I like Chicago!

I'm a bit over Seattle, but that's mostly not Seattle's fault. We've grown a lot in the past 15 years, and I'm interested in most of the stuff surrounding the city, not the city itself.

Mise en abyme for the travel issue being chatted about in this thread? ;)

The article in this post would say the trend to go to the most popular sites is still very high. Otherwise, cities wouldn’t be trying to come up with solutions away from over tourism in these most popular locations. And most of the questions about itineraries from new travelers who ask questions in this forum are heading to those locations.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/this-would-be-a-good-time-to-look-for-new-back-doors

Our travel forum is a subset of travelers who tend to travel much more, so we’re naturally heading to other locations in Europe.

Or maybe the “Instagram girls” are coming up with new places to photograph themselves and creating some travel market trends. Although, when my daughter & I saw them in several locations in 2022, they were only at the popular cities & sites.

Hard to make judgments without data, either qualitative or quantitative. Maybe for the typical American tourists I think Rome, Paris, London are still the big three. Though I think there has always been a tendency to visit smaller cities that Americans recognize from their history books or pop culture, like Granada or Florence.

I've traveling a lot in my life and when I first visited Europe, I did the main sites like Paris, Rome, Florence, Venice, Madrid, Geneva, Vienna, Munich, Berlin, London.
However, visiting 81 foreign countries including much of Europe, Asia, South America, Australia and a fair amount of Africa, I found that I gravitated toward scenic places as well as smaller cities or towns.

After you have been to Venice 6 times and Paris 5 times, visiting the countryside comes naturally.

On our first few trips, we hit the big cities, but it didn't take us long to know that we preferred small towns to the cities. The big cities were all one-and-done except for London. I could be happy going to London anytime. On our upcoming trip in December Salzburg is the largest city we will go to. It's another one that I could never get enough of:)

I think on most of our trips we have tried to combine the big city with a smaller places on side trips. I can only take so much big city then I need something more pastoral. I have often thought about doing a trip where I just stay in a smaller town/countryside the whole time. I like the idea of doing the long walks, as Ireland has been mentioned. I am planning on the Camino Frances in a couple years (that is small towns, villages, countryside, and cities).

Acltually, I did look. The trend and predictions for this year is that Rome, Paris, Athens, London will be doing a little better than pre-pandemic numbers. The secondary cities and less traveled world will stil not up to pre-pandemic levels. Of course thats a gross over generalization. The predictions were based in part on hotel bookings. Will be interesting to see if it plays out as predicted.

I think what you might be seeing is an example of confirmation bias. Perhaps yourself, but people on here, and people I talk to that are well traveled' probably are visiting further down on the tourism chain. But that is because they have seen the big places, so have the luxury of going to Italy, and skipping Rome, Florence, Venice; or rather feeling they are being crowded out of those places, so they look to smaller cities. But really, we all are the minority.

Overall, I would bet the big sights are going to be busier than ever, most mega European cities are bracing for near record tourism.

Paul I agree, noted as such in my original post.

But I've also been reading and seeing so much more in the travel industry about trips outside of the usual major capitals etc. Whether that reflects a trend or is just an industry aspiration? Hmmm ....

I probably should do a little research about proportional numbers historically.

I'm sure one thing that drives visits to Big Metro areas is that those places are where the big international airports are. For instance I don't think my family would have done our last two visits to Paris if it hadn't been that we were using CDG. So visitation numbers in some cities are something like annuitized by the fact that so many travelers are landing or taking off in that city. Not necessarily by virtue of a strong desire to visit that place, but rather because that's where the airport is.

I can say with some confidence that this pattern likely accounts for some pretty good portion of visits to Frankfurt for instance. I doubt I would have ever been to Frankfurt if not for their huge airport. As it stands I think I've been to visit Frankfurt like five times ....

Hank, respecting your wish for a small talk in the forum I like to give you the opportunity to look into statistics for Germany. Based on the tourism atlas for Germany I am not able to recognize a significant increase from 2018 - 2022 of US travellers in smaller cities or the countrysides.

Based on the tourism atlas for Germany I am not able to recognize a significant increase from 2018 - 2022

Wow that's a really cool data tool Mark! I wish we had something like that for Spain.

I was able to find this which was from a third party research firm
https://mabrian.com/blog/the-american-tourists-in-spain/

In Spain for the summer 2022 tourist season, 25% of American tourists visited Barcelona, 20% visited Madrid, and 8% visited Valencia which is a bit of a surprise to me because on this forum Valencia really doesn't get a lot of attention even though it's an excellent destination.

Nowhere in the more rural Northern Spain registered for even 1% of American tourists, even though the summertime is the best time to travel there.

I think the average American tourist tries not to stray too far away from cities with major airports they can fly into from the US.

I question the "US tourists come from these 10 cities" comment. Aside from the questionable locating of Chicago on Hudson Bay, aren't they just listing the cities of origin that flights leave from the US for Spain? Surely 10% of US tourists to Spain do not come from the Miami area, that's just the city with the nonstop flights to Spain.

The EU has a tourism body that publishes statistics. There is a link in one of my old posts on a related subject.

As for American participation in any numbers, it's statistically relatively small. So Americans going to second cities wont have a huge impact if true.

But I have been amazed at the number of Spanish speaking tourists this year. Sometimes, right subject, right speed, right verb I can pick out the Latin Americans and quite a few. Second appears to be Asian. I've been told mostly Korean by an Asian expat I know here. But these are very localized comments, means nothing to Europe as a whole.

Carlos, thanks for sharing this really interesting source about US tourists in Spain. I really appreciate it. A combination of both for all EU countries would be great.

From my experience I share your final statement that the airports are the gates which define / influence somehow the itineraries. I see the "gaps" in both country maps and for my country I know partly what non-domestic tourists are guided by. Fortunately our both national populations are large enough to establish an own tourism demand also for this regions which are - fortunately (?) - ignored by international tourists.

If travel has increased to pre-pandemic numbers just by my observations and perception , good. Regardless, I choose the itinerary based on mainly interests and singular recommendations by locals.

Luckily, I have received numerous such recommendations in Germany and France concerning small places...Barbizon, Montmirail, Vimy, Compiegne, Noyon, Bar-le-Duc, Amiens, Toulouse, Fontainebleau, and so on.

My first 3 trips in the 1970s began with going to big urban centers as well as small towns: London, Vienna, Paris, Hamburg, (west) Berlin, Munich , Frankfurt, Prague (cold war days), etc, plus the smaller and less visited cities , Bonn, Sigmaringen, Lüneburg, Dortmund, Lübeck, Friedrichsruh bei Hamburg, Wetzlar, Münster/Westf.

Obviously, the political situation affects my choice of places to be visited. Your itinerary is dictated by that too. The fall of the Wall opened up for me numerous places in eastern Germany I wanted to get to and explore, yes, after 30 plus years, I still have yet to visit them ....Greifswald, Prenzlau, Schwerin, Stralsund, Erfurt, Leipzig (especially) , Naumburg an der Saale, , etc, etc.

Thankfully (based on recommendations by locals) and luckily too, I have managed to get to numerous smaller places in eastern Germany visiting once, twice, ... , such as Neustrelitz, Küstrin-Kietz, Wustrau/Brandenburg, Potsdam-Babelsberg, Magdeburg an der Elbe, Neuhardenberg,

Bottom line: My trip this summer , above all, the France part , has factored in numerous smaller places visited primarily by French tourists... Cherbourg, Grenoble, Chaumont, towns on the Aube River, and in Lorraine using Metz as a base,

If one wants to avoid being swamped by international tourists in the summer, go to the towns visited almost exclusively by local tourists, tons of places fit that bill in all of Germany and France.

In terms of U.S. travelers visiting a lot of the same big cities in Europe, I think similar is seen here in the U.S. In our travels in the U.S. we have met a number of travelers from Europe and Asia. The itineraries are often quite similar. New York, maybe D.C., Orlando, a circuit of the national parks out west and Los Angeles. If they go anywhere in the middle of the country, it seems to be Chicago. Many times when people ask where we are from (Minnesota), typically, they can only relate to "somewhat close to Chicago" or next to the Canadian border. I always feel the need to point out that the Mississippi starts in Minnesota and the largest lake in the world by surface area borders Minnesota.

Don't forget that most of us on here have been to Europe more than once (or live in Europe ;) ) and probably hit the London - Paris - Rome highlight tour years ago. First timers see the Tower of London. Repeat visitors hit Bath and the Lakes and Oxford. There are more first timers than ever, which is great. But even as travel influencers get more people to hit Bath as well as London on their first trip, people will still travel to London.

Sure, 30 years ago people hit the big cities, dependent on the guidebooks, and a brave few ventured out. Some really ventured out somewhat blindly and some looked at more detailed guidebooks and maps and history books (much more research required back then). However, the days of arming oneself with the best map available and a little translation booklet are gone. English is more commonly spoken, even in smaller cities, than ever, while the internet and GPS navigation make it easy to get from A to B and figure it out as you go. There is more travel advice on everything from pacing to travel options to hotel recommendations. Oh, and the Euro and electronic payment have also made things easier in many places.

So yes, more people are venturing beyond the big cities. But not instead of the big cities. Rather, in addition to them. And the increasing ease and decreasing cost (relatively speaking) mean more than one trip, so big city this time, smaller cities next time.

That's my take.

Mark Carlos thanks for the data gents. The chats getting more fun :-)

and here is some fun reading. but doesnt work to your secondary city concept directly https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tourism_statistics#Bed_places_in_the_EU:_Italy_and_France_predominate

I wonder what would be considered the average American tourist, and if the average Rick Steves' tourist fits that mold.

In my opinion, I think American tourists visiting Europe are very interested in history and culture and not so much "fun in the sun" and relaxation kind of holiday. I think they're also more open to independent travel that group tours or package holidays. Perhaps they are also more interested in being respectful/knowledgeable to the local culture/history. However they only have a very short amount of vacation time so they aren't able to go beyond the main blockbuster sites, even if they want to.

For me the average Rick Steve's tourist does this but even more so, and perhaps has more time on their hands to go more off the beaten path.

While we still make our almost annual pilgrimage to London, most of our trips consist of visiting small cities and out of the way locations. We don’t care for the hustle bustle of large cities and all the crowds, so we minimize our stays in them.

I generally steer clear of big cities as much as possible (I'm not American). Interestingly visiting small lower profile places I almost never meet Americans. I went more than 3 weeks in France without meeting one or hearing the accent.
Maybe they are moving from big cities but they don't seem to be going to the lower profile places from what I have seen.
Reading this forum RS fans tend to have a very limited range of locations they visit. Obviously there will be exceptions.

Carlos, I think you are very close to the truth.

As a solo traveler I feel better in a big city and will always make that my base, making day trips to smaller cities that interest me.

Christa I am curious why you feel better in a big city? I feel much better in small communities. If I were to name my top dozen places in Europe all have populations under 300.

Christa, I'm with you. I can't imagine what i would do with myself for a week in a village. I need theater, music, great food, wine, art, lots of people to watch. And the securiy of knowing any issue has a local solution. It's comfortable.

But of course, 4 days in a river fly fishing isn't bad either. But 4 days at a stretch is pretty much my limit, then need the city again.

" Interestingly visiting small lower profile places I almost never meet any Americans." How utterly true given summer time travel as respects to France and Germany. !

Why do you need to travel through time in order to visit France in summer?

We have trended toward small towns and rural areas for years. Anecdotally, we see/hear more North Americans now in places where we rarely heard English before. Specifically, in the Val Gardena it was rare to meet an American 12 years ago and now we seem to have overrun the place. I see Umbria discussed more and more here on the Forum and on our first visit in 2011, we seemed to be the only Americans in Spello that December. Not the case these days.

interesting conversation. don't know about anyone else or trends but i for one don't enjoy big cities per se when traveling. i use these as bases/hubs and certainly seek out specific sites. for example, i don't care for amsterdam, madrid, bacelona, valencia or milan. they are useful for logistical reasons and for visiting places like the rijksmuseum, prado, sagrada familia, ciudad de las artes y las ciencias, and sant ambrogio. on the other hand, i love teruel, segovia, toledo, san gimignano, spello, and many other stone and brick villages and towns for how they look and feel when walking around. this year i will be visiting vienna, toulouse, and munich but only because they have museums and churches i want to see. my two cents.

alomaker, so you go to a lot of big cities, but not because you like them. But because you like what is in them? That's fair. I suspect most tourists go to the big cities for the same reason. The difference might be in if they have the money and time to do more than just that.

And, does this topic differentiate between big cities and less visited (secondary) cities? For instance Kyiv is a very large city and prior to the war a fairly under appreciated "secondary" city. 10 years ago I would have argued Budapest was a "secondary city", but again at 2 million, huge.

You mentioned Toledo. It has a population of less than 100,000 and sees about 3 million tourists a year. Budapest has a population of 2 million snd sees 12 million tourists a year. In which city do you believe it will be easier to escape the tourists? Of course there is no accounting for what you enjoy the most in life; and that is always where and how you should go.

Forgive the ramblings. Helps me understand my own decisions better.

I think you have to consider how few Americans travel multiple times to countries in Europe, and recognize that people who have been to England several times are more likely to visit charming Woppingsnot-on-Avon versus London, again. Most people I know are not privileged enough to go to Europe more than once or twice in a lifetime and they're not going to skip the primary destinations. I think a lot of the magazine articles and newsfeed "lists" are just advertising, designed to appeal to the more affluent travelers and make it appear as a "trend". Travel abroad has, I think, always been a luxury.

The people who show up here on the forum are not representative of the masses. As alluded to by Mr É, demographics and increases or decreases in wealth are going to drive the numbers. War, economic disaster, another pandemic, or extreme climate events, will influence the trends. The free market will price out the lower end of the overseas travel business.

I think you have to consider how few Americans travel

I think we also have to consider how few Americans actually travel! When living in the US I was always shocked when encountering very professional well educated "cosmopolitan" Americans who never had a passport nor had any desire to see what's beyond their borders it's actually the majority of them! Many even had the airs of "why would I want to see the rest of the world, I got everything here". I think Americans who travel outside of their country are a small minority, and those on this forum are the elite of that minority! I'm not sure if it's "privilege" or not, seems to me more a lack of desire. Maybe as a European I see the ability to travel more as a right than a "luxury", as is seen in the US.

Carlos, it's hard to imagine anything better than Texas that is worth seeing.

To be fair Carlos, and this is from a person who has traveled to countries outside of the US for many years of my life and will continue to do so, the United States is pretty awesome. We're a huge country with wild diversity of all kinds. I don't like it when it's tagged to jingoism, but do understand why some Americans shrug and say nah, I'm good here.

Europe and the US are more or less the same size .... give or take.... and the distance from one to the other is equal to the distance from the other to one. So, why so few Europeans have been to the US, or lets just say, the Americas? Same issue in reverse.

@mr. e:
-'...so you go to a lot of big cities, but not because you like them. But because you like what is in them? That's fair...'
-yes, precisely, as my examples indicate big cities are a means to an end, for me. don't quite understand your statement.

'...In which city do you believe it will be easier to escape the tourists?...'

-the places i chose to visit have nothing to do with 'escaping' tourists, though i have avoided taormina, the amalfi cost, and albarabello for that reason. on the other hand, i have patiently stood in line to get into the pantheon every time i have been to rome. last year in verona i walked into the courtyard of 'Juliet's' house because i wanted to observe people eager to touch her statue. it was eye-opening to contemplate how a myth can be so powerful for so many.

To paraphrase Yogi Berra, nobody goes to the big cities anymore. They're too crowded.

They key word in your post is "become." You've become more focused on smaller places probably because, like many experienced travelers on this forum, you've already been to many or most of the big cities. You're looking for different experiences now.

I have no doubt that first time travelers to France still want to go to Paris. I know a number of people who go back to London year after year. And I still haven't been to Rome, so this year I'm finally doing that. In general I appreciate a good mix of cities, small towns and villages, and nature. I suspect many travelers feel the same way.

@ carlos
your quote, '...I got everything here...', brought back one of my earliest memories after arriving in the usa in the mid 80's. the day after landing i went to my school to meet the foreign student advisor. during the conversation he said almost the same thing, 'we have everything here'. as a newly arrived foreigner the statement left an indelible mark on me.

So, why so few Europeans have been to the US

@ Mr É: you miss the time and multi-culture component. This is what Europe makes so unique. It is about the layers of history and cultures. Germany is much smaller than Texas for example but the five largest cities have very different cultures, e. g. music, traditions, food ... they even do not like the same bread or beer. Germany is not Oktoberfest - only Munich is Oktoberfest in the way you know it, not even Bavaria. Schützenverein is more German than any other thing tourists connect with Germany but nobody is asking for it.

Another topic is about roots: many people from the USA want to know where and how their anchestors lived. I try to support this because sometimes it is not easy to find the right authorities, documents or contacts.

We have been to all the major European cities 4-5 times each, and we're only traveling through their airports in the future. We're tired of big crowds and very expensive travel. There are still many of off the beaten path cities where we'll be spending our time.

We also feel the same about domestic travel in North America--including Caribbean cruises. We no longer travel anywhere unless we're making flight connections. And that includes my hometown which is just about 75 minutes drive from us. We're spoiled to living waterfront on a major river with two Robert Trent Jones golf courses 300 yards down our street.

MarkK, just out of general interest, German is spoken still a little to this day about 60 miles northwest of where I use to live in Texas.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/mvx9wp/the-last-days-of-texas-german-253

and this is about 60 miles south of where I use to live in Texas https://texashillcountry.com/castroville-little-alsace/ (here there are still Alsacian speakers and the locals refer to the those not of Alsacian roots as "he is English" which is an ethnic identity and not one of language).

Then about 125 miles to the nearest Czech town https://journeymapped.com/2021/12/11-charming-czech-towns-to-visit-in-texas/

Lets not even get started on Spanish and the various forms of Spanish.

When in Europe, I continue to do a mix of larger and smaller centres becoming more engrossed in the cities ranging from 50,000 to 100,000 in size.

I am a street walker and have continued to rebuke the haughtiness of European Culture.

Mr É

I visited the German Belt between New Braunfels and Fredericksburg in 2015 after visiting the SXSW in Austin. I fully agree that it seems to be an own German culture spot. I liked the Willkommen signs when entering the city limits.

Very interesting post and responses. I think that we forget that each year more and more "new" travelers head to Europe and they want to see the top sights of Europe. If you want to see the Vatican, then you have to visit Rome. If you want to see the Eiffel tower, well, Paris is your choice.

As many have said, if you belong to the "been there, done that", travel group, you will be looking for smaller cities or other interesting sites. I don't think the major cities in any country in the world will have any issues with tourist attendance except if they allow crime to run rampant within their city. Some cities in the US are experiencing this right now and unfortunately there are some great US cities suffering for it.

Politics on crime will ruin travel to cities, always has and always will in the US. When NYC cleaned up its act decades ago, the city boomed with more tourism. Cities like Chicago, San Francisco, LA, etc. are feeling the brunt of store closings and less people willing to step foot into some of the city areas. This is why Europe is feeling an increase in US travelers. People feel safer in European cities than here in the US, so why not put your travel dollars there and enjoy some new cultures and history.

Personally I do not care about the size of a location, it is the site or vista I want to experience. I have not been to some major cities, but if there was something I wanted to experience, the size would not be a deterrent. I may not stay very long in that city, but you have to deal with crowds, weather, transportation and other conditions sometimes to fulfil your desire or experience.

As Yogi Berra might have said, "Big cities are so overrun with tourists, no one's visiting them anymore!"

My wife and I like a mix of city sizes when traveling, but I don't think I've seen a drop off in any travel anywhere since the restart post-COVID. Our first foreign trip after COVID was to Paris for a week and because it was just after they started reopening, it was the least crowded we've ever seen it. An absolute delight - as it always has been - and not a reflection of how the next series of vacations would play out. The following trip was focused on Madrid-Seville-Cordoba (one big and two small cities), then Amsterdam-Delft (medium-big & small), and then followed by Barcelona-Lisbon with smaller cities in the middle.

Lately, our general goal is to just skip getting a car and enjoy time in one or two main places and radiate out using transit or our own walking/cycling power. That means, for us, we're actually gravitating more towards bigger cities and all the built in infrastructure that comes with them. Europe's pretty great for getting out and about into smaller suburban or rural towns by other means than a car, so we think this process will be the norm for us for a while.

We go back to the Netherlands in July, and already plotting the cycling logistics to hit different towns and maybe a dip into Belgium. We'll see.

But for us, there is a degree of "checklist" travel where the big "checks" are in the big cities (or near them), so if you want the Sistine Chapel, you probably should stay in Rome. If you want to see the Louvre, stay in Paris. Etc.. On the other hand, doing a Loire chateau tour or the German castles on the Rhine or a hiking trip in the Alps, the smaller and lovely cities (and mostly towns) will be great places to stay and visit.

My feeling is they are all popular and "crowded", but probably more remote areas lag easy to access locations as the world continues to ramp up from the COVID era.

Tom interesting post. Now that you mention it, my family did two Europe trips during Covid, jumped through all the hoops to be able to travel.

On those trips we did what you did, picked the normally most heavily touristed destinations and experienced them with next to no tourists. Once in a lifetime opportunity, really glad to have done it.

Also, cycle touring Netherlands and Belgium is awesome! We work a lot of cycling into our trips. One major advantage of this is that it puts you on the ground for the majority of your time outside of bigger tourist areas, even if riding from tourist town to tourist town. It's a great way to travel :)

This is an interesting thread. The question raised is one that invites educated speculation but that can be answered with actual numbers. If honest, I cannot answer the question, though I can comment on how I travel.

Two factors should be quickly noted. First, if you use frequent-flier miles to fly, your options for the cities you can fly into and out of are limited--at least on Delta, it seems I nearly always have to fly to and out of a major city. Second, if you are in a big city like London or Paris or Madrid, that city can be your base for countless one-day trips.

Certainly, as people travel more in Europe, many are tempted to explore new places as well as revisit, even if only for a few days, places they truly loved. The mindset seems to be that after visiting London several times, one just has to go to York. But I have to admit that there are big cities that I gravitate to repeatedly--chiefly, London and Paris--where one can spend weeks. I go to many smaller cities and towns, and they do not compare, and I wonder whether I am visiting these places to check off boxes.

And admittedly, it depends. In Italy, there are many places I like much more than Rome. If I ever return to Rome, it will be more out of a sense of obligation because I did not care for the city when I visited it many years ago. In Spain, I like Granada and Seville more than Madrid. In Austria, I like Salzburg more than Vienna.

The bottom line for me is that though there are some places I have not visited that I would like to see--Prague and Budapest come to mind--I do not want to craft an itinerary any longer based in large part on my not having seen them. If I have not visited places in the past, a possible reason is that my interest in seeing them was limited. No more I have not been there, or it seems that I should go there, or I need to check off this travel item on someone's list. I have travelled enough to know what I like. And I find that some big cities are awfully crowded because they are much more interesting than smaller cities and villages.