information overload

Eleven countries (not cities) in 21 days? No wonder you have information overload! You also have schedule overload. Have you looked at travel times between your intended destinations and considered how you will get from one to another? From the looks of this itinerary, the only "backdoor" you'll be seeing is the one on the train or bus. You'll be on the move almost every day - checking out, finding your way to the station, waiting for the train, finding your way in a new city, checking in, then doing it all again the next day. When will you have time to see or visit anything? You really need to narrow down your list of destinations or all you will be doing is passing by, not living the "backdoor" experience.

Are you crazy?! Last I checked 3 weeks was 21 days. You've listed 12 countries (OK, Sicily is not a country, but anyway). That's less that 2 days per country, not including transports time. What are you going to do? Land in Austria, say, "OK, Austria, check, now we are going to Slovenia". Think quality, not quantity. Spend some time figuring out what you want to see in each of them. You need to cut down.

Nancy is so right on. When I first read this, I was expecting a punch line at the end. Have you looked at a map at all? Do you realize the distances involved? Have you really read Through the Backdoor? This is not Through the Backdoor style of travel. These are countries. Which cities are you planning to visit. I am curious to know what you mean by "I have my flight, rail... figured out." Are you sure??

Nancy is totally right. If it's travel you want then you're good to go. And I do mean go, because all you will be doing is going from one place to another. You won't be visiting anything but train stations. You will see plenty of scenery going by the train windows though. In my opinion, you need to scale way back on the number of countries you plan to see.

I suspect this is your first trip to Europe and you want to see EVERYTHING. It is not possible, and the more you try to see, the less you will enjoy. If you really think about the places you want to see the most and concentrate of really seeing them you will have a better trip.

Love your name by the way... ;-)

geez! i apologize for being a newbie . . . of course i have looked at a map & it's a rough estimate of the route i would like to take. i have plenty of time to rule out many of them. honestly, how can anyone feel comfortable trying to simply get some some ideas with responses like this? please only respond if you have some ideas.

Andrea, you are totally over reacting to what experienced travelers are trying to say. You mentioned 11-12 countries you want to go to in 21 days. You didn't say you were trying to narrow anything down, you said you were trying to plan where to go to in each country. You asked for tips or ideas and that is what you have received.

Why those countries? What appeals to you besides saying you have been there?

No one will be able to help you until you are more realistic about the time you have and what you can really do with that time.

Andrea...it's understandable that you want to see everything on your first trip. Most people do. Unfortunately, it's virtually impossible.

My suggestion would be to split up the trip by region. On this trip, hit Sicily, Italy, Switzerland and Austria. And even with three weeks, that will be a lot.

Save the other countries for an Eastern European regional trip next time.

Think of flying open jaw--into one city and out of another--and then go in one direction. Try not to circle back.

An example would be to start in Sicily and go north. And since it will be March, Sicily will be much warmer than Switzerland.

Get a good guide book of these areas--either ETBD or RS' "Best of Europe" and start planning where you want to go.

Then, when you have a rough estimate, come back here with specific questions and we'll be glad to help.

And just to reiterate, getting a copy of ETBD will make our planning so much easier.

thank you, frank, for your kind reply. i do have a copy of ETBD. i would prefer to do the eastern european . . . ? any locations other than the places listed in the book that you might recommend through that region?

You could do the Balkans and Greece in three weeks, and if you started in Greece you might do better weather-wise.

Or you could do Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria, with Austria as your gateway.

But if you want the best advice, it would be most helpful to know about what you already have figured out. Where are you flying into and out of? What do you enjoy doing--museums, gournet dining, hiking, cafe culture, village life, club scene?? Give us some hints and you'll get usable advice.

If you want to do Eastern Europe, then do Eastern Europe. However, I doubt you could cover all of what you want in three weeks.

My suggestion is get a good map of the area. Then turn to ETBD and the section "Your best itinerary in eight steps" (pg. 69) Follow those steps to plan out your trip. (You, of course, substitute the Eastern European countries you wish to go to instead of his Western European jaunt.) And remember, figuring out how long it will take to get from place to place is key.

I agree that starting in the south and working north makes sense that time of year. Try not to backtrack, move in one direction, and use open jaw tickets for your flights.

Only you can decide which places are most important to you. Once you've done the above, then come back, let us know, and start posting on the board for specifics. Getting Rick's Eastern European book will help as well.

Have fun.

thank you!

Hey Andrea, I know how you feel. You want to go and see everything and you think you may never get there again.

I've only been once but I was glad I had given every city at least two nights.
Travel days take up time and are stressful, especially on your first trip.
Mix in small towns with large cities. It gives you a slower pace for a change.

Europe Through the Back Door doesn't have near the information on countries and cities that the individual books have. You might check them out at the library or buy some or all. They are 30% off right now. If you don't want to do that, get Best of Europe. Here is the book's description:

Made up of condensed versions of the most popular chapters from his individual country guidebooks, Rick's "greatest hits" guide is perfect for the whirlwind Europe trip.
In Rick Steves' Best of Europe, you'll find in-depth Rick-tested information on trip planning, hotels, restaurants, tourist offices, transportation, easy-to-follow maps. It covers all the best sights (but does not include the illustrated city walks and museum tours found in Rick's city guidebooks). The places covered by this book include...

Read about different cities/regions and see what whets your appetite.

Don't forget that in much of Eastern Europe, you will be dealing with both language differences, and alphabet differences. This does not mean you shouldn't go, but some things will take longer and be more frustrating. Figuring out bus systems, menus, and maps will add time to every day.

Andrea,

I strongly agree with the others in that you have FAR TOO MANY destinations listed for a three week trip. My suggestions would be along the same lines as Frank II mentioned.

However, given the the fact that you'll be travelling in March, I'd recommend focusing on the western European countries, especially those in the south. The weather may not be too favourable at that time of year in places like Albania, Romania, Bulgaria or Hungary and the transportation will probably be somewhat easier between locations.

I'd suggest dropping Greece from this visit, due to the distance and transportation times. Were you planning to just visit Athens or some of the islands as well? Note that tourist facilities on some of the islands will probably not be open in March, as they close down for the winter.

Have you bought your airline tickets yet? Using Open jaw flights would be a really good idea! You indicated that you have your "rail" figured out. Could you elaborate on that? Also, which cities were you planning to visit in each of the countries you mentioned?

Especially with such a short trip, it's going to be extremely important to plan a logical route and calculate transportation times carefully between cities.

Good luck with your planning!

thanks for all the great ideas . . . i haven't actually bought anything yet, so i'm very flexible on changing things. with a few of the countries, i had just assumed transit, so if i cut down the list to the ones i absolutely must visit, then those would be croatia, bosnia, serbia, & romania. also, i'm not concerned about the extremes in weather. & to respond to jer's question . . . cafes, village life, & cultural experiences

If you are big into the rural life and backdoor experiences definetly check out Romania. I felt very safe traveling there solo, but younger people speak English which made it easier to communicate if you need help. Trains in Romania take forever to get places, but are quite the experience. It is very common to see horse driven carts, town water wells and people working in the fields with primitive equipment. You would need at the very minimum one week to see it comfortably here. I only have experience with the Transylvania area, but I heard the Maramures area is amazing as well.

A Romania and Bulgaria trip in three weeks would be perfect. I know it is only 2 countries, but the transportation system here can be alot slower then in the western countries. But if you want back door experiences you will find it here.

Don't buy a rail pass especially if you are traveling here! So much cheaper to buy point to point.

Hungary and Romania would also be an option. Fly in Budapest and out of Bucharest and travel in between. Hungary would also prepare you for Romania.

OK...so your "must sees" are Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, and Romania. That means that the Rick Steves guides will be at best of marginal use to you, since these are areas he covers lightly or not at all. So here's what I would strongly recommend. First, read through Europe Through the Back Door--even though it is Western European-centric, it will give you good general advice about European travel. Then, go online to www.inyourpocket.com and download their terrific guides to the countries you want and many of the cities you may be visiting. They'll help you get a sense of what to do and how to do it. As far as print guidebooks to the areas, I think the British series Bradt guides are really good for this region of Europe. I used their Bosnia one and can vouch for it. They have one on every Balkan country--even Kosovo--and on some of the major cities as well.

Have you booked your airfare yet? Where are you flying in and out of? Start there. I loved Poland. Nice people, cheap and good food.

Check out www.balkanology.com
Great site about traveling in this area.
Use the Lonley Planet thorntree forum. There are tons of locals giving local advise and sorry to say, way more informative about this area of Europe than on here. But if you think the replies on this forum are harsh the LP's can be way worse.

I am glad to see that this topic has gotten more specific. But I can understand why people come on here with unrealistic expectations about the amount of territory they can cover in one, two or three weeks. They look at Rick Steves' own tours, and it all seems so easy. But the only way to cover that amount of territory in such a short time and have it make any sense would be to sign up for one of the tours. It is virtually impossible for individuals to attempt anything like that and actually enjoy it. I prefer a more leisurely pace.

Andrea,

From a logistics-transportation angle, your proposed itinerary is a tall order. I've done a three week trip to Europe before, but that just covered 3 countries, (France, Belgium, and West Germany)

The entire list of countries you have will require more than 2 Eurail passes, even the Global Pass will not cover all of them.

Concentrate on East-Central Europe (Austria, Hungary)
and the Balkan peninsula (Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia- Montenegro, Croatia, and Slovenia, and maybe Greece. All these places are covered in the Balkan Flexi-Pass and Eurail Croatia,Slovenia, and Hungary Pass

Skip Italy, Sicily, Switzerland, and western Austria, such as Innsbruck and Salzburg this time. Logistically, they're incompatible with the rest of your intinerary. If you intend to visit just the capitals , it can be done but superficially, and as pointed out, you will be seeing a lot of train stations and that gets taxing on your system. Unless you link up with some fellow travellers, I would not suggest taking night trains if you are solo, especially after leaving Vienna.

One idea is that you look into flying out of Vienna with the discount airlines to the other capitals, such as Bucharest, Athens, Sofia, and Zagreb. After that, use the train pass to get to the next destination. Even though your trip is very demanding--I mean energy level here, having to get up at 5 AM to catch the early trains,etc., which I've done too--I believe your trip is doable, but it's going to be taxing and an overview. and above all,require a good deal of planning on the details as to seeing sites once you arrive in a city and accomodations. Winging it is fine on accomodations--I've done--but it's also a waste of time and energy that could be spent on seeing the sites, museums, etc.

No need to apologise for being a newbie, that's immaterial.

Andrea, on this website, check out Rick's Travel Store and see if there is a DVD that you could buy for the countries you're interested in travelling to. Watching the DVD might also give you ideas on what cities to see and how to get there.

Andrea.

The travel books I would suggest that you consult in planning this trip and helping you decide what to skip this time are Let's Go: Eastern Europe, it's very informative, if you don't mind their editorialising,

and some of the books in the Rough Guide series, such as The Rough Guide to Austria, Hungary, Romania, Slovenia. Both of these works provide all the needed information and are very readable. Most definitely, I use them in planning my trips and deciding where to go and stay.

Andrea as many posters have already stated--this is way too many countries for a 3 week trip. You will get home and feel as if you saw nothing. On one of our trips we spent 3 weeks just in Croatia and Slovenia ending in Venice for 4 nights. Assume you will return!!

ok, as we have already determined, the original list is out, so no need to beat a dead horse . . . now, i'm simply interested in ideas & tips, & am absolutely thrilled by the responses that were helpful . . . thank you so much to the people who did this, i now have a clearer picture

Andrea,
For what it is worth, here is my advice: In planning your trip, I would suggest that you establish starting and departure points and days for your trip. Then divide your free time into segments of three or four days each, with the option of day trips from each destination. If your departure for the U.S. is from your original arrival city, such as Munich, pick the most distant place you want to visit, such as Rome, Vienna, Prague, etc. Then, either take an overnight train or a plane there or, if by daytime train or auto, pick an intermediate site, or two, preferably one, and add those to your itinerary. However, whether traveling by train, car or air, try to avoid spending more than four daytime hours in transit at a time. Repeat with different intermediate spots for the trip back to catch your flight back home.

Andrea,

Since you mentioned that the original list is no more, I take it that you have picked the specific cities. What are they? The books I refered to above will be of great help in deciding what you want to focus on. Did you decide on East-Central Europe or the Balkans?

Hi Andrea,

What is the latest on the trip planning? The details finalised?

Did you pick East-Central Europe over the Balkan countries? Or, vice versa? What about the rail passes?

Andrea, has anyone suggested you watch the Rick Steves 3 part DVD on travel skills? He talks about how to plan your itinerary. I think it is also covered in ETBD.

Based on your revised information, here is one possible route

Fly into either Split or Dubrovnik, Croatia. Explore Croatia and then travel to Mostar followed by:

Mostar - Sarajeveo (2 hrs - take the train rather than the bus - more comfortable and cheaper)

Sarajevo - Belgrade (6-7 hours by bus - train is overnight and requires changes)

Belgrade - Timisoara (Romania) - 4 hrs on the train.

From Timisoara you can travel through Sibui, Targu Mures, Brasov and into Bucharest.

Fly out of Bucharest if you are not headed to the Black Sea coast.

Obviously, you can take side trips and alter the route to suit your needs.

Besides the websites already mentioned, visit inyourpocket.com and download their free guides to a lot of the towns/countries in this region. They are much better than most commercially available guides and much more upto date.