I hope I'm not being rude when I ask this, but here's goes...
Why do people ask questions on this message board when they can get the answer with a 10 second Google search?
Questions like, "How do I get from this place to that place," or "Will it be cold in [this city] in [this month]?"
Marty, it is an imponderable. Perhaps just the need to connect with a human advisor.
I think it’s just different levels of being comfortable starting out traveling. Maybe the temperature question is actually asking what type of clothes people brought with them. And a few places are trickier to figure out transportation. For instance, I am in Matera, Italy, and I could picture someone asking about the train/bus current combo from Bari to Matera - even the correct side of the secondary train station adjacent to Bari Centrale.
I have wondered that too…..
I think some questions take some real looking and not everyone has the expertise to do that. For example, I spent two hours this week figuring out public transportation options for northern Italy. The train was easy but I spent an enormous amount of time trying to find the bus schedules from the train station in Rovereto to where we were staying on Lake Garda. (Only to have my husband say he didn’t want to do that to get from the Dolomites-bus, train, two buses-and we should take a taxi to avoid the last two buses!!)
I think the weather questions are both what wanting people’s experiences with weather a certain time of you and the fact that most searches on weather turn up averages which are increasingly not meaningful.
I have to ask why people don't read the question. So annoying. Question: We don't drive and planning a train trip to.... Answer: You can rent a car at the airport.
It's not a terrible idea. Considering that if you don't even know where to start looking a 10 second google search can give you some very misleading results. And that might lead to some very odd travel plans, so it can be a good idea to ask just in case.
"How do I get from this place to that place?" In my experience, I have received the most incredibly detailed answers that have helped me immensely that I never would have gotten on a Google search. Many times, I have bowed to the Forum gods. . .
If everyone just googled everything, no need for this forum. Personally, I don't have any issue with basic questions, I tend to get more irritated at some of the answers given. Someone asking for help, I think is a good thing. Better to ask then perhaps make a mistake that can be avoided. I don't want individuals not feeling comfortable asking a question on this forum. I dislike people answering by telling them to go read a book and only after they do a specific amount of homework, can they be allowed to ask a question here. Don't remember that being part of the forum guidelines and one way to make others feel unwelcome. Now suggesting a specific book to help is a different answer and I think perfectly fine.
The questions are always new to somebody seeking help, and so is the forum. I think it's human nature. I see this on other non-travel forums as well. People are more comfortable asking another person for info (even in an anonymous forum) than researching on the internet. And then, I think many people just dont have good communication skills to be able to formulate a specific question or recognize the difference between facts and opinions. And sometimes, "go read guidebook" is in fact the most helpful answer. Even then, the skill of using written reference material is becoming a lost skill.
About a year ago, I asked this Forum for KC BBQ suggestions. The first response was "Google KC BBQ" - like I hadn't already! The other responses were extremely helpful, and confirmed my initial choices.
I have identified the people on this Forum who share my approach to travel, and I want to know their answers to what some would consider basic questions.
The other problem is that while some current/correct info can be found with a quick search, the internet is sort of forever so there's a LOT of outdated stuff out there. If you don't know that what you're looking at is outdated... 'Current' can also apply to the last hour, day or month when it comes to a strike, rail construction, road closure, etc.
Too, when you don't know what you don't know, it can be difficult know what to type in a search box. Never traveled by train before? Where does one start for a foreign country or multi-foreign country trip?
Perhaps their 10 second google search turned up RS forums where all things are answered.
"How do I get from this place to that place"
My newest travel friend, recently retired, doesn't use public transit in her town. When I told her that she could look on Google Maps to see how to get from our hotel to Shoenbrunn in Vienna, she was surprised to learn that Google Maps could do that. She wouldn't have even known to try.
She's not dumb - she has a petroleum engineering degree. She's not lazy. She just didn't know Google Maps could do that. She never had a need to know it.
Now she does, because she asked me how she would get to Schoenbrunn.
Being helpful to those with a need should be in our basic human wiring and so routine that it shouldn't occur to consider the question.
For the same reason I always fight my way through phone answering machine trees to get to a person.
So many things can go wrong that interacting with a person on the other end prevents.
Thanks for bringing up the elephant in the room.
Perhaps posting is their first step in starting to research. Who is to say that there is a specific order to research. I tend to think people are just overwhelmed with life more than being lazy.
I tend to think people are just overwhelmed with life more than being
lazy.
Ugh. I know that feeling. Lately I do, anyway.
It's not a lazy things and I wouldn't call someone I know nothing about lazy.
Sure, we can all search Google or any other search engine. But does everyone know how to judge, be skeptical of, or dig through the mountain of information provided and be discerning? Do people understand how they are manipulated through search engine optimization or that google sells positions within search results as advertising? The first result on Google for UK ETA is a sponsored link for ivisa.com. Search engines do not deliver by default the most relevant information, they deliver the paid advertising first, and Google then delivers based on your user history, the information they think you want.
With a forum at least you can seek out solicit another's second opinions or their own experience.
Do you just trust all the information that Google turns up for you, with no discrimination, critique or validation whatsoever?
I know how to do Google searches and look for results, and I still wind up on the forum asking questions (and answering many basic questions). Things like what public transportation should we take to Windsor Castle; or what are some fun sights in Paris that two teen/tweens would like; or what is a good hotel to book in Berlin.
I do this because 1) I trust the forum members to give me accurate information that is (generally) unbiased and based on their own personal knowledge; 2) I like the interaction with people who share my love of travel; and 3) I get a variety of answers I can choose from to suit my specific needs.
Are some of the questions a little simplistic? Sure. But as others have noted, many people don't travel that much, and they need some help just getting the question out. Heck, they may not even know what their question is! Plus they aren't tech savvy and don't know how to use the internet as efficiently as many of us do.
But honestly, I answer the questions (even the banal ones) because I love to encourage travel. I want everyone in the world to travel! So if giving information here on the forum helps with that, then hey presto! I'll keep at it! It is certainly why I spend hours here each week (and maybe THAT'S an issue, lol!).
This is one of those questions that results in those answering making judgments about people whom they know nothing about. So I don't see it as very productive.
I like VAP's post.
I post a lot on Trip Advisor. One of the first things we do on my Yellowstone forum is to tell people how to book their in-park lodging. The first hits on a google search are generally 2 different travel agencies that have web addresses that "sound" authentic. They charge a 10% booking fee and have terrible cancellation policies in comparison to the official booking site. They also do a bait-and-switch with rooms inside and outside the park.
So, to me, asking on here for how to get from A to B or for weather information is asking for useful information from actual travelers.
Weather questions are always interesting to me but I want to know where the person is from to answer better. "Will it be cold/rainy/whatever" is really contextual. A forum newbie from say, AZ, may not clue in to wanting to have a waterproof layer for France in October.
I also wonder why folks just don't scroll on by threads that they find elementary or beneath their notice. Why refer someone to a guide book without asking any further questions. We've got plenty of posters here who can answer based on experience.
Every year for the last 20 years I have volunteered every day for a week at an info desk for a gigantic plant sale. So you can believe that we get all styles of questions from 10,000+ shoppers and volunteers, and we need to help people out in all kinds of different ways. I have learned that there are people who simply like to ask another person, rather than, say, look at a map or read instructions or even stop and think for a second. There are also people who don't like to plan ahead or do research --- they just don't like to. It does not give them that warm feeling of satisfaction that do-it-ourselves gives us.
I also know from my own family and friends that people have different research styles in different areas of their lives. The same person can be a competent travel planner but helpless in the kitchen (I've been known to ask questions like "What does 'simmer' mean?" when I could google it --- somehow I want to know IMMEDIATELY) and vice versa.
I don't think you are being rude, Marty, but I do think you are doomed to frustration if you want other people to be like you. People are just amazingly different.
Anyone who doesn't like a question or finds it annoying is under no obligation to answer it.
Definitely like VAP's post! G o gle is heavily biased toward sponsored things. For example, if I G o o gle "buying Swiss Rail tickets, I'm sure I'd find at the top, all the "middlemen" companies that add a commission and have less complete solutions. If they re-sell train tickets, would they tell you about boats or busses?
And everyone doesn't even know what words to search for. They don't know what they don't know. This forum really does serve a great purpose!
If the query is on getting from A to B, then I'll respond if the OP is willing to tailor the route, regardless of the Google info, ie , don't depend on Google solely.
Posted by VAP
It's not a lazy things and I wouldn't call someone I know nothing
about lazy.Sure, we can all search Google or any other search engine. But does
everyone know how to judge, be skeptical of, or dig through the
mountain of information provided and be discerning? Do people
understand how they are manipulated through search engine optimization
or that google sells positions within search results as advertising?
The first result on Google for UK ETA is a sponsored link for
ivisa.com. Search engines do not deliver by default the most relevant
information, they deliver the paid advertising first, and Google then
delivers based on your user history, the information they think you
want.With a forum at least you can seek out solicit another's second
opinions or their own experience.Do you just trust all the information that Google turns up for you,
with no discrimination, critique or validation whatsoever?
What VAP said.
I think everyone here on the forum is breathing and has a pulse. Well probably 99.9% anyway. ;)
Google? Might be some AI bot generating information.
And one of the nice things about the RS forums is that RS doesn't mind if you recommend some other brand of luggage or a tour company that is less strenuous.
2 recent examples of why go×gle isn't the be all and end all.
Thursday we've just finished at Hobbiton on our N.I. NZ roadtrip. Heading to the money pit that is Rotorua. Go×gle search campgrounds and a bunch of places pop up, all of them over USD40+ per night 2 person powered site, 30 is the top of our budget. Scroll, scroll, scroll and find one at 30.
We drive down the road to it and mistakenly turn into one directly opposite that didn't appear on my search. I go into the office check their price and availability. "We have a discounted rate Thursday's USD20".
Yesterday looking for one in New Plymouth, all of the initial search responses again 40+. Searching through other sources I find one that hadn't come up in those searches. Check their website and they are charging 20 per night.
I had an example just this past week. I knew how to Google for information on getting tickets to the Eiffel Tower. However, after two weeks of searching daily for tickets only to turn up “sold out” each time, I finally checked the forum. What Google didn’t tell me and a forum poster did was that I should be checking just after midnight Paris time. Et voila, now I have tickets.
I've learned to appreciate the advice I get here from folks who are on the ground, who have been to that particular area, who actually understand how the trains, tubes, buses all work in the area in which they live.
I also have learned to appreciate the personal touch so many of our Forum folk share. I'll do an internet search for hours a museum is open, or how to get from London City Airport to Bath, but how much more information I get from someone who has been there, done that, and is willing to help others.
I have also learned to appreciate the friends I have made on this Forum; a surprising number of whom I have met "in real life," and many many more who are just names on the screen, but their hearts and their personalities shine through.
Thank you, Forum friends.
I think of how disappointed I'd have ended up if this time last year if I'd asked a simple question that I could have Googled, "how do I get tickets to Font de Gaume?" The lazy, impersonal answer would have told me to Google it. But thankfully this Forum warned me it's not that easy, and explained the challenges.
Google is just an automated catalogue of published information sorted by only economic interests. They are optimizing their benefit only, not yours
Cold and warm - asked by human beings - are never only temperature questions because feeling warm or cold is defined by around six parameters. And locals know that the same temperature feels very different with humid west wind than with dry wind from the East.
Another issue with temps only views is that this says nothing about the temp to be expected at a place because micro-climates in cities for example differ by up to 8 K (° C) depending on where you are in the city - plus factor of direct sunlight or not. The city of Hamburg made an interesting analysis of the temperature profiles in different districts (link to German article).
More or less the same is it with traffic. Google Maps is not very reliable card material in detail and every experienced local drives different faster ways than this odd machine.
Why do people ask questions on this message board when they can get the answer with a 10 second Google search?
I don’t recall this actually happening all that often. I agree the posts about “will I be cold” are pretty tedious, if you get cold you will warm up later, grow up.
There was a time here when there was a weekly query on how to get from CDG to Paris, haven’t seen that one for quite a while.
I asked google: "Is the rick steves forum more reliable than google ai?"
Google responded:
AI Overview Learn more Generally, the Rick Steves forum is likely to
be more reliable than a general Google AI response for travel
planning, particularly regarding specific travel destinations in
Europe. Rick Steves has a strong focus on Europe, and his forum
provides a community of experienced travelers offering detailed,
practical advice. While AI can be a useful tool, it may not have the
same level of specialized expertise or nuance as the Rick Steves
forum.
If I just ask: "is the rick steves forum more reliable than google?" (dropping "ai" from my question)
Google responds:
The Rick Steves Travel Forum and Google each offer different
strengths, and the "more reliable" depends on the specific information
you're seeking. Rick Steves' forum generally provides travel advice
from experienced travelers and Rick Steves himself, which can be
valuable for personalized recommendations. Google, on the other hand,
offers a vast array of information sources, including travel blogs,
articles, and expert opinions, but may require more careful filtering
and analysis to ensure accuracy.
If I ask "Does google track my browsing history more than Rick Steves forum? Is google more evil than the Rick Steves forum? Why does google track everything I do?"
Google ai says "Bwwwwaaaaahhhh! Wouldn't you like to know?" And then it teleports me into a virtual reality while it harvests my organic energy combined with type of fusion to power its vast evil brain.
Okay, I made that last bit up.
Happy travels!
Why do people ask questions on this message board when they can get the answer with a 10 second Google search?
Sometimes I think people do not want to research on their own because It is so much easier to ask others to do it for you. That happens a lot here when people say, "critique my itinerary". There are many generous people here who will take the time and offer and somewhat design an itinerary for a poster.
Many questions can be researched online with accurate answers. Opinion questions are what forums are designed to offer.
Asking what hotels are close to the train station is easily answered online on numerous sites. Asking if the "XYZ Hotel is nice" is an opinion you would like to hear from people on a forum who have stayed in the hotel.
Your observation is correct, many questions can be answered elsewhere online, but this is a place where many people will do the research for you.
Google AI responses have become pretty good these days. It's often quite accurate, and easy to tell if it's off about something. I more often than not use full English sentences to search Google more recently rather than just keywords. I'll quite often select full sentences from things people say on here and right click in Chrome to search with it.
Why do people ask questions on this message board when they can get the answer with a 10 second Google search?
Why do you assume this to be an "either-or" thing? Most of us, I think, use multiple online sources of information. This forum is IME consistently one of the most reliable for travel information.
I can tell you about a bum steer I had from a Google search just yesterday.
I was travelling from Uddingston, South Lanarkshire to Edinburgh Waverley by train. I Googled for times and I got there in time for the 12:02. Turns out the Google search defaulted to "Uddingston (All Stations)" without me realising. In the "all stations" part it included Motherwell Station. Motherwell is five miles or so away and a completely different town. The 12:02 left from Motherwell. Doh! Train from Uddingston was at 12:30. I think I confused the guy at the ticket desk with my reference to this mystery train, as he seemed to somehow agree that there was a train at 12:02, but the train to Edinburgh was at 12:30.
Anyway, I should have used National Rail Enquiries or asked Stuart, like any sensible RSE person would. Not reading my Google search properly made me feel daft.
Sure, Google (including Google Maps) is in the money-making business. It makes money by attracting customers to the advertisers and in part it does that by providing what the customer’s needs or wants. If it worked any other way it would not exist. Better what we got than nothing. I think those that complain the most about google are the ones that don’t know how to analyze or interpret the results they get. Its just a tool. Very helpful when used as a tool. Nothing to criticize.
The best thing that any contributior could do in this forum would be to complete your profile with the type of informaiton that provides context. I think a person would get more context from google than from a lot of our contributors. The contributior that has a Patusan name, speaks Patusan, posts Patusan language references, but wont say if he is actually Patusanian? Or where in Patusan he is ... its a big country and if he lives in one corner we can assume he knows more about that, or is more accurate or more current than when discussing the other corner. More context, more reliability. Takes five minutes to add to the profile. When they dont, I have to suspect. For all, the guy that answers on Molvinia 12.000 times a year but never in a answer speaks in the first person, "I enjoyed or "I was in ________ last year and __________" Again, why not? No context, suspect value. Google is worse? Maybe. Dont know. Contributors with profiles that look like this get a lot more of my confidence: https://community.ricksteves.com/users/64764 and like https://community.ricksteves.com/users/50966
I 💖 everything about David's post.
Marty and Forum,
Back in the day when I first got a computer and did online searches, I was often frustrated because I didn't have a clue about how to frame my search questions. I got so many irrelevant and useless responses! I learned over time to put quotation marks around some words or names, and how to put more details into my search bar to narrow down the number of responses. I learned to note the sponsored replies, and to scroll down and to go to subsequent pages for more information. I learned how to figure out what responses were actually answers to my questions. Even doing a search on this forum took me a few times to do so efficiently.
Thus, I have some sympathy for new posters when they ask questions that they may have been able to get answers to on their own, but for some reason, didn't. As someone said, you don't know what you don't know. That being said, a gentle (not aggressive or snarky) suggestion about where to do some research first on their own is not a bad thing. And saying to come back after that, and to provide more info and/or context isn't necessarily mean or arrogant.
I was blown away when a kind and patient person on a website (not travel-related) told me how to open more than one window at a time on my PC. I had been frustrated for a year with complications from not knowing how to do that. Also never having taken a class in computers, no one told me how to cut and paste, etc. I was fluent with the system I used when I worked, but I repeated tasks several times a day so it was automatic to do certain things. Something that I might do once every 3-6 months, I had to relearn or at least refresh myself on when called upon to do it. I still do some things by a workaround because I feel more confident about that way. I don't have a smart watch and don't do tons of things with my phone. I use and do what is comfortable for me, appreciate the help given to me by those who know a lot more, and am not ashamed to not be super tech-savvy.
I hope the learning curve continues in an upward arc for me, not downward.
Not to derail this but for Gerry Google was (maybe by chance) actually right, there is a 1201 from Uddingston to Edinburgh, change at Bellshill into a Shotts fast service arriving in to Waverley 32 minutes ahead of the 1230.
The 1201 is Lanark bound.
If people have trouble finding answers before their vacation and post on RS for help with a question, what will they do while on the vacation itself? If you need directions will you send a post to RS saying that tomorrow you are looking to get from your hotel to a particular site or your next destination. It seems it might be worthwhile to you to learn how to navigate the internet to obtain the information you need. Perhaps it will not happen in 10 seconds.
In the old days one would have had to go to the library, buy guidebooks, or travel magazines. Looking back that seems like a lot more work then sorting through any google results, ads or not. And of course, much then was already out of date. And, no RS travel forums. Yet, people did travel then and made it work. Yep, sometimes there is a bit of work involved.
This happens at my house all the time! My husband asks me things that he could easily Google [or asks me where things are that he could easily get up and look for himself]! In his case it's just sheer laziness, bless his heart, not a lack of skill.
Seriously, I am far more inclined to help the person who says "I have three days in Paris, and there are so many things I'd like to do, especially x, y, and z. Can you help me with an itinerary so I can see and do these things in my short time there" or "I've watched several Youtube videos about the Metro and I'm still confused about x" than the person who says "I have three days in Paris. Where should I stay and what should I see?" or "how do I get around Paris?"
I mean, come on. Have SOME idea of what you want to do and where to stay. [And likewise to my husband, look where you think it might be, and if you still can't find it, then ask me.] What if we told posters to stay at a hotel by the airport and that Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum and the Hard Rock Cafe were must sees? Would they just accept that since it's coming from the Rick Steves forum posters, and we must know what we're talking about?
"I think those that complain the most about google are the ones that don’t know how to analyze or interpret the results they get."
Incorrect. I find Google to be problematic in numerous ways, because I know not to take the results at face value. I taught computer literacy to adults, as well as teaching research skills. So, one can't make such assumptions.
Moments after posting this, I was listening to a radio report in which Cory Doctorow (who wrote about the "ensh!ttification" of the Internet), was discussing his opinions on why Google results are so much worse than they used to be. https://ikius.com/blog/the-fall-of-google Not mentioned in this article is Doctorow's claim that there was an "all hands" meeting at Google in which the decline in the number of searches was addressed, and it was decided to make search results less accurate, so that users would have to continue to search.
If people have trouble finding answers before their vacation and post on RS for help with a question, what will they do while on the vacation itself? If you need directions will you send a post to RS saying that tomorrow you are looking to get from your hotel to a particular site or your next destination
treemoss2, isn't asking questions part of the function of the Forum? I checked the Forum guidelines and found this section:
Getting the Most from Your Travel Question
Help others give you the best answers by providing enough information.
For example…When asking about where to go or things to do, include your interests.
When asking about accommodations, give a budget.
When asking about clothing or what to pack, include the season
https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/about-the-travel-forum
Many folks do hang out here to learn from others' experiences and share their own, but the chance to both ask and answer questions seems to me to add value to the site. At least, it has for me.
Yes, of course, asking questions is the forum. Original post had to do with posting of simple things easily found if one were to look. After that the thread morphed into a round and round about google and what is does or does not do.
There is a saying.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
