How others judge you and your trips...

Randy, good post. I understand how you feel, i used to feel like that but i don't anymore, Michael explains it well for me. Travel is my hobby, i enjoy the research part almost as much as the actual traveling. Lots of people i work with have never been to Montréal (great city) and it is not even 2 hours away...To me they miss out on some great places, but it is not there thing. I get the "You are so lucky to go to Europe again!
I am not lucky, it is a lifestyle choice i made. I am fortunate to have people around me, that also travel and are more than happy to hear about my trip experiences.

I think part of it is jealousy. Part of it is simply having come across too many people who seem to think that if you don't go to Europe, you're losing the most valuable experience of your life/are uncultured, when really some people aren't just interested in going to Europe. It is an interest, and sadly (or maybe luckily!) not everyone shares it. It can also be hard because some people seem to think you can never travel ever if you make under a certain amount of money. In some cases there's a grain of truth to that (I come from a large family of very limited means, so making sure we had a house, food, and jobs to support those basic needs came above visiting family in Europe!), but I think a lot of people sell themselves short, thinking travel is a luxury they can never afford.

And as with anything, it is really hard to not be obnoxious talking constantly about a trip you're going to take or have just come back from. It's exciting, and it's natural to want to talk about it, but it's like when someone has a new love in their life and can only talk about that person. In this case your love is Spain or Italy or Germany. You shouldn't have to feel you need to pretend it doesn't exist, but sometimes it's not easy to come off as bragging, especially if you are fortunate enough to go every year.

This post really resonates with me. I also have Midwestern relatives (in-laws) who have never even made the 3 hour trip to Chicago. We are visiting this summer and you can be damned sure we are taking few days side trip to Chicago (which is how I learned they'd never been there).

I keep mainly quiet amongst family and friends. When I come across a fellow traveler, then I can't shut up.

When I took a solo trip to France in the fall, I told no one at work. It was the second trip to Europe of the year and I didn't want to deal with the resentment I would feel.

Randy I am so sorry that you feel that way. You should be able to talk about your adventures and be excited. This is how I look at it. I told every single friend and person I came in contact with about my upcoming trip. I have waited my whole life and I wanted to share with everyone. I felt it was my turn after all the stories about others kids, watching school plays of friends children and doing the things that families and friends do for one another. As far as co-workers go think of the countless boring stories we have sat through with a smile on our face acting interested....they can listen to you for a little bit. Besides it is no ones business how we all spend our money and if travel is yours, cars another so be it. We all work for what we want.
Be excited and maybe it will rub off on some of the less adventurous.

Randy: It's nice to get a "philosophical" post, thanks for that. Seems like you're doing the only thing you really can do: making the Europe trips because it's what you like to do, and when you get back focusing on what you, and those of your immediate family who made the trip with you, get out of it: the memories and photos you bring back.

People who are interested in doing other things, or don't have or feel comfortable spending the relatively large amounts of money for a 2-week experience, may see it as physically stressful and all you have when you get back is pics and jet lag--well, for them it isn't worth it and they may just not be that interested in hearing much about it. It was your life, not theirs.

And obviously there's some who might like to go but don't have the money or time, and for those people, it's only natural that there would be a little envious, and for that reason not want to hear about your fun.

Hi Randy, I totally understand and sympathize with you. I know people that fall into the camp you describe. There's just a real disconnect between us because of it. I think some may be jealous.

I also have a lot of friends, family, and coworkers of modest means many of whom have never traveled outside the US. My experience is that some do go out of their way to talk to me about where I have been, or will be. Others for a variety of reasons don't bring it up, and I don't go out of my way to bring it up. My personal theory, is that travel is a hobby, and not everyone is into the same hobbies. Some people just aren't into travel (either international or domestic), and of course that's okay. But these same folks are passionate about other stuff like : golf, restoring vintage cars, home repair, knitting, gourmet cooking etc. It probably mystifies them why I don't talk to them about more about their vintage Chevy, or current knitting project. Without some sort of common ground, it can be very hard to relate to something that is so "foreign", and it's easiest to not bring it up at all.

I like the way Michael said it: think of Europe travel as a hobby (and, I might add, a relatively expensive one). Others have different hobbies. Many of them may see Europe travel as physically stressful, expensive, and over too quick, with nothing to show for it afterward except memories and photos. Those folks don't hang out on this site, but they're in the majority, I guess.

I'm in the same situation as Michael. I work among people who just don't travel. We all have the same incomes and generally the same lifestyles, we just do different things with our money. I recently hosted a friend from Spain, and did some local sightseeing with him to St Louis and Chicago, both of which are a couple of hours from my home. When my work friends asked about it later, one woman expressed amazement at our having been to Chicago, saying, "I've always wanted to go there!" What??

For some, also, I think it's a comfort level thing. They have never traveled and don't know how to do it. Being somewhere where they speak a different language is something they consider incredibly "brave", especially when I mention traveling alone. Still, I don't talk much about it unless I'm asked, for the reasons others have mentioned above. I will show my pictures if I am asked, but I generally don't bring them to work. My whole family travels now, so it's not an issue in the family.

Randy,
I am teacher and my husband works for an university( not as a professor) so we are also a middle class family( with two kids in college) and I know exactly what you mean. I have avoided talking about our upcoming trip to Spain ( 10 days away :) because of my fear of what people may think. I was recently asked by some of my students' parents what my plans were for the summer and I found myself almost ready to lie. Then I thought- Why am I ashamed of the fact that I work hard, drive a ten year old car, live in a modest house ( in an area of county club neighborhoods) and save instead of spend. So I told them about our three weeks in Spain and some seemed to be surprised ( are we paying our teachers too much?) while others seemed to be excited for us. Even with our families( who aren't big into travling overseas) I avoid the topic. But I have found that reading posts on this website has helped fill that void of not having people in my "real" life to share my enthusiasim for all things European. Just remember that you are creating priceless memories for your children and just think " Que lastima!" ( What a pity!) for those poor souls who need to judge others to make themselves feel better. Have a great time and I look forward to reading about your trip!

When you see some amazing things on a trip, the natural inclination when you come home is to tell everyone all about it. The problem is that unless you are very careful, it can come across as boasting. Although the intent usually is genuine to share wonderful experiences, there's a limit to how far others can live vicariously through your travels. So, I usually don't talk about it much unless I'm asked, and then I keep the descriptions brief and vague. If someone wants to know more, they will ask follow-on questions.

You have to realize something. Although frequent travel is without a doubt a hobby for a select few (probably disproportionately represented on this website!), most people, when asked, would love to take a Grand Tour of Europe. However, because of issues of cost, time, and unfamiliarity or other more important life priorities, almost all of them will never make the trip. So, you have to keep that in mind when talking about your experiences. There really is a fair degree of envy.

I find that I can only safely have in-depth conversations about my travels with others who have visited the same places. Probably why I waste so much time on this website...

Finally... I just don't talk about it much because I got tired of justifying why I've never been to Italy, Spain or Greece!

I tend to take the opposite approach. I talk about our travels whenever I can. I encourage others to think about trying European travel. I share how we save (no movies out, few dinners out, etc.)and tell them I'd rather have memories of the Scottish highlands than a few meals out. I, too, was an educator (first special ed teacher then assistant principal) and often got "those looks" and occassional comments. But I always took the opportuntiy to explain how enriching the experience was for us and our children; how it made me a better educator and how I shared my travles with my students. I even tried to organize a group experience for one of my school staffs- it didn't work out but several teachers wound up taking indivial trips that they never would have considered before. It's all about priorities... and world travel is one of my top priorities.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. How many of us would enjoy listening to an in-depth narrative of someone's trip to Las Vegas, Cancun or Atlantis? I'm not implying any superiority of traveling to Europe over any of these locations (OK, I am for Vegas...), but if you frequent this website, a trip to an all-inclusive resort is probably not one of your life's priorities, even though you may have a slight interest to visit one some day.

"I'm entirely open to the idea that the situation I perceive is partly of my own making."
I think you may have a point there, Randy. I'm very open about my European trips with co-workers, and while they are envious (as they should be!) I've never encountered any jealousy, at least in a negative sense. There's no reason for you to feel embarrassed about discussing the issue with others. If they ask me how I can afford it, I tell them we save for it, because it's important to us....just like a new car or a million-dollar mansion may be important to them.
What really gets them on side is when I tell them that you don't have to spend $10,000 to spend a couple of weeks in Europe....THAT gets their attention!

Having been in college as long as I have, I can honestly say I'm quite happy to miss the "trip to Cancun" stories. I think I must be getting old ;)

Tom makes a good point which really ties to what a few people have suggested. Sometimes the location or activities just don't resonate with people. I'm not keen on hearing my fellow students talk about the wild parties and clubs they went to while abroad, but they'd probably be bored to tears hearing my stories about the butterfly migration and tour of the Alamo I saw and took on a trip to Texas several years ago. It's a matter of interest, and it just isn't the same in every person.

I have to say, though, when I live so close to San Francisco, I'm always shocked at people treating it like a big vacation to go there. Similarly, people act like Yosemite is several states away when it's only a few hours! But I'm a road tripper at heart :)

Randy, I know how you feel.

Most of my friends want to have top of the line cars, huge homes with the latest of everything on the market. That's how they choose to spend their money.

However, it irks me when they begin to say things like, "gosh, I don't understand how in the world you all can afford to go to Europe so OFTEN!" Or sometimes they would even make remarks about what a waste of money, when I could have gotten a new driveway, or even bought a new car.

Then there are the others who feel that Europe can't be all that the books and shows make it out to be, so they won't waste their time on money on such foolishness.

Very few of our friends or family care to hear about our travels. One friend is terrified of flying and she "lives" through me. She enjoys the pictures and stories because she will never make a trip out of the country.

I tell my kids to keep the trip to themselves and unless we are asked point blank where we are going this summer, don't even bother to mention it. Sad.

what a great thread. first, i have to ditto tom's 'shoe on other foot' post above--the cancun, vegas, and atlantis comparison is spot-on (and this is coming from someone who is GOING to vegas for a week this summer one week before our month in europe). second, i've had this sort of communication issue with lots of things i've done--particularly education related (i just finished my master's degree, and i spent last summer at a rather impressive writing conference and no one cared about that, even though i really, really did! conversations at family gatherings were strained, because we didn't share common things to care about.)

in regards to travel, i absolutely come across that sort of attitude--mainly the 'how can you afford that?' question. we're both public school teachers and yes, we have a smallish house and oldish cars. it IS a hobby (i LOVE That comparison!)--though i wouldn't even argue that it is an expensive hobby. we spent as much on our GARDEN last year as we will spend on this trip this summer. there's just this stigma--when you say 'europe', i think people picture something VERY different from the reality of what many people (at least on these boards) are looking at. a quick look at the top hotels in paris on expedia for the same two week period we will be there results in...doing it now...a lot of hotels around $200 a night. that would be $2800 for just lodging. we're spending $1200 for 14 nights in an apartment. we'll be in europe for a month this summer, and will have spent a little less than the cost of a WEEK in walt disney world. and i'm proud of that--just like i'm proud that my car is paid off and i've not bought a shiny new one. perhaps 'bragging' about how LITTLE you are spending would be a way to break that stigma?

Well, I guess I didn't realize how lucky I am. My company is based in NYC so it's common for someone to take a long weekend in Paris or London. It really isn't much further than the west coast. Almost all my work colleagues know that I go to Scotland as often as I can. They are more baffled by why I go back to Scotland so often and think I ought to branch out. ; ) Of course, when I tell them I'm visiting / walking with friends the questions vanish. Some of my family has traveled in Europe and some haven't. We were all quite stunned and pleased when my oldest nephew went to Amsterdam for a concert. He and his girlfriend found a cheap ticket.

I think that listening to someone's description of their vacation can be fascinating or deadly boring. But you don't have to show that you find it boring. And if its a family member or dear friend, maybe you need to just listen with your heart and you can enjoy their joy in their trip instead. ; )

Pam

I'm enjoying this thread. Do you think there's a tendency for Europe travel junkies (those of us who hang out here) to feel that travel to Europe is, well, at least a little bit superior to other hobbies that people might choose as their preference?

Some people don't like to travel too far and prefer other hobbies: golf, restoring vintage cars, etc. Others travel but prefer to explore their own country; or they keep going back to explore the Hawaiian islands. Others prefer travel to South America or Asia.

Is there something superior about traveling to Europe, compared to other choices of hobbies that people make?

"Is there something superior about traveling to Europe?" To us, yes, or we wouldn't be hanging around here, would we? But I also love Disney World, and to me, Ocean City, New Jersey is one of the most perfect towns in the world.

But Europe sure beats the hell out of Vegas (sorry, there I go again...).

EDIT: RE Ocean City- one of the most perfect towns in the world that doesn't permit the sale of alcohol.

Interesting post, Randy. I am also reluctant to tell people where I am going on vacation, and I never talk about it unless they probe. Most of my friends and family do not travel nearly as much as I do. In some cases, it just doesn't interest them, and in some cases, they can't afford it or they have other priorities.

I know what you mean, but I don't see it as a problem. No one likes to be a bore and go on and on about things other people are not as interested in. (Okay, there are -- unfortunately -- exceptions.) Being reluctant to even mention that you are going to Europe is just a way to avoid bragging or appearing pretentious. There are enough boorish, self-centered people in the world.

One of the reasons I like this site so much is that I can have "conversations" with people who are just as obsessed with travel as me.

Wow! Thank you everyone for your very thoughtful responses. It seems this topic has struck a chord with people and I'm happy for that. Too many good points made to respond to them all, but I do like the hobby analogy. My father-in-law, in particular, has a number of hobbies that he can talk endlessly about without any response given by the listener. So I never ask for fear of getting him started. It is humbling to imagine that he might feel the same about our trips.

The comparison with trips to other locations is interesting, too. I'll admit to feeling a tad superior for going to Europe vs. Disney World. But then, we have also already done that, as well as 30+ other US states on previous family road trips. Whenever I hear of someone taking a trip to Africa or Asia, though, I do feel a certain pang of jealousy and inadequacy since their trips seem so much more adventuresome than the well-traveled Europe trips we take.

One thing that makes this a tad tougher for us is that the trips we take are rather lengthy. We began by taking 3-week trips, then last year was a month. This year will be 5 weeks. So it's not just a diversion from "real" life for us (as most 5-15 day typical vacations often are). It's a major chunk of our lives. It's really hard to not talk about it. Meanwhile, the fact that it is long makes it seem that much more extravagant, and makes us that much more sheepish about talking about it.

Thanks especially to the educators who have responded so far (as we are). It allows us the luxury of extra time to spend on trips (though it also locks us into summer high season travel), but it also adds to the reluctance we have of appearing to be making more money than we should. There is no doubt that others in our same income range will spend a similar amount on 100 little daily luxuries without giving it a second thought. But if they don't care to hear about our trips they certainly don't want a lecture from me on frugal living :-)...

Well, I'll say it,, I think as a "hobby" travel to pretty well anywhere is a superior activity for broadning ones world view then say,, scrapbooking or knitting etc. There are many good hobbies, don't get me wrong, but I am merely saying that people who travel seem to be more open to new ideas and expereinces and frankly, are the type of people that I would normally find interesting.

Not all my friends travel though, some do and some don't .. the ones that don't often cite cost,, and I tell them baloney, they just CHOSE to redo their bathrooms, or drive a newer car etc. They are often the ones who if they do choose to travel are lazy and go to a travel agent and book a way more exspensive trip then I ever would, staying at fancy chain hotels instead of finding cute budget picks etc.

I can identify with so many experiences here.

I know how some friends and relative feel when they will look at maybe a couple of pictures and then turn away. Or when they walk out of the room when I am showing my home movies on the TV.

My sister is good at engaging others in a conversation when I play a movie and just walks out of the room....comes back a says....is that still on.

She and her husband travel locally all the time.

I think the key is to wait until people give you an opening....asking what you're doing during the summer or what your vacation plans are. I wouldn't feel comfortable suddenly launch into a discourse on a planned trip. But if you're given the opening, don't feel embarrassed about discussing it...if people didn't want to hear about it, they wouldn't ask. Think of it as an "educational" opportunity! ;)

I think there's a big difference between taking 2 min to talk about a recent trip/upcoming trip when asked, and spending 20 min boring them with details. I always keep it brief, and let them ask more questions if they're interested.

I know lots of teachers who travel extensively in the summer and I admire them for it. As many have said, we all save for our trips and don't spend money on many things other people do.

I actually love hearing about other people's Europe travels and always ask lots of questions.

That's what I like about this website, most of us have basically the same travel philosophy and we all have a love for Europe travel in common!

i'm posting a second time to this thread, because i've been thinking about it for a while, and wanted to share what i didn't even know was my own approach to dealing with this issue...an issue i didn't even know i had. i blog. i hate using that as a verb--blog--but it is something i do, so i suppose it is a verb. i have a blog about all of my travels--it started last summer for a totally different set of trips, but i've continued it and have been writing about my travel planning for this summer. and do you know what? hundreds of people have read it--i know this because i can see the stats--and scores of people have commented and sent me personal emails. these are the people who share my travel adventures. these are the people who care about them. so what if i don't work with them, if i'm not related to them? i'm sharing my stories, and hearing theirs in return. how great is that?

I love talking about my travels and don't feel the need to hide or be uncomfortable about it.

I sometimes get comments like , "Wow, I wish I could do that but isn't it expensive?" to which I give my little speech about how everyone has hobbies or a passion, or 'toys'. Some people have every latest gadget and electronic gimzo or huge flat panel tvs. Others are into camping, boating, rv-ing, or have jet skis. Some like getting a new car every few years. We choose instead to travel. It's all about what's important to you.

I don't think Europe is a superior destination, nor do I think travel to Europe is a superior hobby. I also knit, read, write, collect stationary, and enjoy going to see indie films. All of those things go wonderfully with travel! And my sister i spending a week at Disney later this month. That doesn't make my trip to Europe better--her trip is less expensive (we're already in California, so travel costs are cut), and sometimes amusement parks are just fun. I'm not interested in trips to Vegas or Cancun (though a tour of Mexican pyramids sounds spectacular!), and the thought of Jamaica downright horrifies me (the thought of poor black people serving me as a privileged white person makes me intensely uncomfortable), but I try not to judge people on their chosen destination/s.

Honestly, if my family was from Brazil instead of Portugal, I'd probably be going to Brazil this summer. I go where my ties and roots are. That's the appeal. I'm okay not going to France. I'm okay not going to Hawaii. I'm okay not going to Costa Rica. But when my friends go to those places, I'm happy and excited for them, especially if their family has ties there.

I am lucky that my immediate family loves to travel as much as I do. Although they don't do it with the frequency I do, I don't think they are resentful of how often we are able to take trips. We work hard, save our money, rarely go out to eat, spend very little for entertainment, etc. We have lived in the same house for 19 years, our vehicles are paid for and travel is what we like to do. I like the comparison of travel to other hobbies. I just had a conversation about this yesterday with friends. Some of us have the travel bug and love to talk about it. One of the friends doesn't travel, but spends a small fortune on quilting supplies. She just doesn't care that much about traveling to other places. I don't talk in depth to others much, unless they are really interested.

It is sad when people are so judgmental of people and how they spend their money.

The problem I face is with ANY trip we take!

Last year we went to Hawaii for 10 days, and then to Trinidad & Tobago for another 10 days. We also went to Branson for a long weekend, and Dallas. Christmas was spent in Europe.

We got the same reaction from the people around us to those trips. In fact, we spent last weekend in Dallas (shopping, what else?LOL), and heard "how do you all afford to go away so often?"

To me it isn't only about Europe. In previous years, we spent a lot of time in various parts of Mexico, and again, the negativity, the attitude aboout "we have the same things here in the US", and why waste so much money etc. came out of some people's mouths.

They choose to splurge on their cars, boats, homes, country club, and whatever else catches their fancy, and we lot choose travelling, which just happens to include Europe for many of us.

I get extremely excited about travel. I know or been the annoying guy who refuses to stop rambling on about traveling. I feel like I've been doing better about this but I'm sure it still gets on peoples' nerves. Here's what I try to do, if I mention something about a trip I took if I know they went away for a weekend or if they took a trip/tour/cruise a while ago I'll ask them a couple questions about theirs. You can ask them about whatever hobby they have.

I know lots of people that don't care about experiencing something new, much less traveling. This kills me because I love traveling and constantly experiencing difference. I think lots of it is jealousy, but I honestly think lots of people don't want to leave their little world, the town they've lived in all their lives etc. I don't understand it but I think lots of it is based on the stereotypical idea of overpacled, overplanned travel.

I don't know much about this subject but I hope my sort of random thoughs that came to me make sense, and get my ideas accross.

People choose to spend their money in different ways. My husband and I didn't get to take a real vacation for over 20 years -- no money, no time or both -- so when we finally got the opportunity, we took it....and plan to keep taking it while we can squeeze the money out. I've seen too many people who say "Someday" and then something happens to prevent "someday' from ever becoming a reality. We're going to go, hopefully annually, until for some reason we can't anymore. I'll keep driving my car until the wheels fall off, and I'll just keep getting the old carpet cleaned until it wears out, etc, etc. But the experiences and memories we have from our trips is well worth it. I don't care if others are jealous or whatever they think. It's worth it to us. I quit worrying about what others think of me when I turned 40.

We have encountered so many of the same attitudes Randy has. People think we are nuts because we are taking our kids 6 and 10 this summer to Europe. We try to share that this is a dream we have had for our children to travel. We are still looked at strangely. Interesting part is that most of our friends take some sort of big vacation each year. Some go to Hawaii as their main destination, which BTW will almost cost them almost as much as our 3 weeks in France and Italy will.

Interesting is that these are the same folks who criticize our frugal lifestyle even though we "don't have to be".

We are constantly working to share with our friends what we see in our children as a result of our travels. I firmly believe my children will appreciate art, unique cultures, travel, etc. their whole lives because they grew up learning to appreciate these things. The appreciation is not gained at some point in their maturity. It is taught.

My encouragement to us all is to keep sharing our experiences and what we have learned and been taught by our travels. I am often surprised by who in my life is actually interested, often folks I never thought would be.

Kelly, I started taking my kids on trips from a very tender age. My son was 2 the first time we went to Norway and England. My daughter was 5 months old when we took her to the Caribbean for three weeks. Everyone thought they were too little to travel. Today they are older teens and cannot imagine a life without travel. I may have created two travelling monsters, LOL

This board helps us all to share what we are passionate about, and we are all eager to hear about each other's experiences in Europe, and sometimes other places. This place is our "fix," thanks to Rick Steves!

Now if only we could have a separate section for Trip Reports...sigh.

It appears Las Vegas has been unfairly stigmatized in this thread. Many of you here don't know that Rick is inaugurating a new travel book series and the first title is going to be: "Vacations You Can Afford: Las Vegas Through the Backdoor."

Las Vegas offers many of the same attractions that can be found in Europe: The David, Rialto Bridge, St. Mark's Piazza Campanile, the Canals, and a variety of Roman Fountains. With the Eiffel Tower and Bellagio thrown in.

Vegas: not only affordable, but you'll actually get there on the same day you planned to, since it's not necessary to pass through volcanic ash to get there.

I can also identify with what Randy says in his post, I've had similar experiences with people being envious of my trips as well.

As someone who's lived in France twice and who has friends all over the globe, going to Europe is more than a vacation - it's a time to catch up with good old friends.

I'm sure some of you are in the same situation or even have family who live over there (which I actually do, but I just found out about this; it's a long story...). Either way, I'm tired of people saying to me "how can you consider this person a close friend? You spent 4 months abroad with them, only talk now via email/skype/facebook/etc, and only see them once every 3-5 years". I wish people would understand that for some of us, being separated from our best friends for more than 5 years isn't easy, and this is why a trip to Europe every few years is something I work hard to save for. It's worth every penny...I'm tired of people saying to me that I should be putting away every cent I make towards retirement. Of course, it is smart to save some money, but I don't see what's wrong with putting away a bit of money each paycheck towards a future trip - I'm only 26, and I don't want to wait another 35+ years to be able to enjoy myself... I want to have some fun now, too! I realize that I've been extremely lucky to have traveled so much, especially at my young age, but what some don't realize is that travel is addictive - once you start, you don't ever want to stop! ;)

Not to mention that there are many people who, as some of you have described, could very well make the trip, but they are too obsessed with buying the best or newest of every product ever made to be able to afford to do much of anything else. If people didn't insist on driving brand new cars every year or having designer outfits/shoes/purses/etc, they could probably also afford to treat themselves to a European trip every few years...

Kent..LOL, very sharp.

I really hope no one is actually comparing Vegas to Europe (and I am referring to both the posters and the people talked about by the posters). They are two completely different destinations with two different "purposes". Just as you wouldn't want people questioning your finances or attitude about Europe, you have no place to dump on people who enjoy Vegas, because I am sure those places are enjoyed for very different reasons.

I, for one, love going to Vegas, because it is such a fun, easy escape into complete ridiculousness. Can't say that I can take more than 3 days of it at one time, but I do love it. You can't really compare walking down the Strip with a beer in hand at 3am to spending a day wandering the streets of [insert European city here]. Enjoying either doesn't make you in any way superior to people who prefer the other.

And while the airfare to Vegas may be much cheaper, it is entirely too possible to spend as much on a weekend there as one would spend on a week in Europe :)

Funny, I am in the exact opposite position from Randy's. I am about the only person I know who has not taken a trip to Europe yet, and we are all very middle-class twentysomethings freshly out of college.

Not that I am implying it's cheap, but I always kind of figured that it's something most people my age do.

I consciously worked towards an overseas job precisely because I knew my European travel hobby would otherwise be prohibitively expensive for us. Finally got the job and at the end of our first year living in Europe we sent out a Christmas letter that mentioned our "over-the-top" travels around Europe that year. I think we started the letter with something like "Sorry if this sounds obnoxious but…" My wife's great aunt (90+ years old) responded: "Never apologize for your life!"
My favorite though is my brother, who rarely/almost-never leaves California. He is worried that, because we are living in Europe, our kids are not being raised to be "real Americans". Yup, he actually said that.

Vegas: not only affordable, but you'll actually get there on the same day you planned to, since it's not necessary to pass through volcanic ash to get there.

Kent, I guess you've never been to the Mirage.

Mirage Las Vegas Volcano

Okay, Frank II, THAT was funny.

I'm in the same boat with a lot of others, people wonder where I'm hiding all this money so we can take trips to Europe with our kids. We live in an older house, drive older cars, rarely eat out. I feel very self-conscious when talking about our travels, but I feel like I shouldn't. Other people can talk about their new cars, additions to their homes, sending kids to private schools, why should I feel guilty about my trips?

This is just where we'd rather spend our money. I could end my life surrounded by stuff and a nicer home, or I could have it ending with lots of great memories. I'll take the memories anytime.

I think a lot of people think there's a lot of barriers to travel, especially with travel to Europe. They look at the cost pp for tours, and that turns them away, especially if they have kids.

We're very fortunate in that my husband gets international flight benefits with his job. Our family in the states gets angry that we don't come and visit more often, but, honestly, it's easier and cheaper to go to Europe.

We also know a lot of families that go to Disneyworld every year. They rave about how much there is to do there. I worked there years ago, I know what's down there. I definitely want to take my kids there. Once. As a friend of mine said, I can take them to see a fake castle in Florida, or I can take them to the real one. And spend about the same. :)

I think most people still look at a trip to Europe as a luxury and can be a little envious. Living in NC lots of people spend a week at the beach each year with just the rentals at $1000+ for the week (not to mention eating out, actitivities, etc.) and don't think anything of it. When I tell them them that my trips don't cost much (or any) more than they spend, they can't believe it. If my vacation each year is to Europe, I'm I supposed to keep my mouth shut while others talk about Las Vegas or their beach vacations? One of my brothers is the biggest offender of all and I'm getting revenge. I'm taking him and my sister-in-law (One of my travel buddies) to Italy next year to shut him up once and for all.

What a fascinating topic. All our family have been to the UK and Europe Our daughter has been 3 times. This September will be my third time.
It is a 'rite of passage' for a huge majority of young Aussies to do the UK and Europe before they settle down. In our circle of friends and acquaintances in all areas of our life, 70% of them would have been overseas. Interesting, considering it costs us twice as much to get there as you guys.

Judy,

We spent a pleasant night with a young woman from Melbourne on our train above the arctic circle into Norway, from Stockholm. It would be tough for her to get much farther from home than that! Last year we shared a flight from Paris to Reykjavik with a young Aussie man who was spending two months in Europe and just got the urge to hop over to Iceland and have a look around.

It made me admire the Australians even more - and it is on the top of my non-Europe travel wish list.

I don't think there is as much jealousy as maybe people might think. I think it's more like when people who have kids talk about their kids to people who don't have kids.

Are you jealous that they have kids and a ton of stories about their kids? no. Do you want to sit through lunch with them while they talk endlessly about their kids. no.

The level if interest is only going to last so long when they are not your own personal experiences that you can share. If you have nothing you can relate it to - its hard to stay interested.

Randy, I am really enjoying this thread. For the past five years we have lived in a fairly affluent town, surrounded by well educated people who also travel all of the time, so we get to share travel experiences and tips with our friends all the time. However, for 12 years before that we lived in a small midwestern town where everything we had or did was viewed with suspicion (we were "outsiders" who bought a big old historic home to restore). We tried not to talk much about travel because of the negative reactions, although some people knew about it because we sometimes took our daughters out of school. The last year we lived in Indiana, we had a foreign exchange student who would come home from school and tell us exactly what the other students AND TEACHERS (!!!) would say about us (she had no filter). We had no idea that these rumors existed, but her reports very often brought laughter to our dinner table at night. She was grilled on all kinds of things such as how many servants and cooks we had (zero!) to the FACT that we had a rich grandmother in Paris(!!!) funding all of our trips to Europe! Mind you, we were just a middle class family doing our own restoration work and I was a stay at home mom, cleaning my own house and living very frugally. But the fact that we did out of the norm things for that culture apparently caused us to be the subject of many interesting, contrived rumors. I found that living in a climate where I could not discuss my interests or beliefs with others to be very confining. I don't enjoy being around people who resent other people's happiness...their children's achievemnets, their athletic awards, their new house or car... Being in a culture where everyone's success is resented by the majority of others is very oppressive. It feels comfortable and freeing to now live around people with similar values.

Great topic, Randy. We, too, are embarking on our (2nd) family (of 5) trip to Europe in 5 weeks, but don't speak of it often for the same reasons you mentioned. For some, it is truly not possible. For others the "cost" financially and otherwise, is not worth it - adjusting habits,eating different foods, linguistic difficulties, creature comforts, etc. I like the way travel helps curb my ethnocentrism a bit, but then, travel is a "bug" that bit early in life, from leafing through National Geographic and dreaming of going to the Alps. I hope that will be true for our children. I'd rather have the $10,000 in memories and experiences than parked in my garage. Enjoy your time.

I am feeling very lucky as I have never encountered the reactions that some of you guys have. I find people are usually interested to know where I've been even if they wouldn't want to travel themselves. The only comments I usually encounter are people saying they wouldn't like travelling alone or staying in hostels or going to a destination that is very foreign to them (e.g. India). I have occasionally encountered "It's alright for you" comments about the cost. But they are usually from the sort of people who spend their whole life looking at what other people spend and have.

Amy, I do believe that part of it is jealousy.

I have a close friend who declares how jealous she is of my always travelling abroad. I have asked her countless times why she wouldn't just go ahead and take a trip instead of feeling jealous. Her response? "I want things that I can see and feel; all you are left with are memories."

So a trip to Europe, Asia or Australia would be a terrible waste of money for her, because she is going to be left with nothing more than memories, maybe a few souvenirs and photos. I had shared this before on a similar thread.

James..."Why is everybody so concerned with what other people think?" I guess because we live in a society that requires we be considerate of other peoples' feelings, at least to some extend....you can't completelty ignore what effect your actions have on others.
Your second question misses the point...yes, it may be an I DON'T GIVE A DAMN mentality, or it may be jealousy, or it may be envy...but I don't think anyone has suggested that they want people to be superficially interested in their trip just so they can spout off about it.

James,

You have a point. But I think the bigger frustration being expressed here is the sense that, in order to avoid provoking a conflict or resentment, we almost have to hide our travel or pretend it didn't happen.

No one owes me their interest. No matter what subject it is I am talking about, I always try to assume the listener has limited interest so I try to keep my participation concise and as relevant to the listener as possible. I also try to ask questions of others. I consider this to simply be conversationally polite and considerate.

Yet when it comes to travel to Europe, I am most comfortable (or least uncomfortable) saying nothing at all, unless directly asked. Sadly, a simple "So how was your trip?" is usually too much to hope for.

Laura, I think you are in a very different situation in London. To begin with, travel to any location in Europe is no more difficult for you than going to another state in the US is for me.

The effect I feel is somewhat (though not entirely) limited to Americans traveling to Europe. And the rationale, I think, is the sense that European travel is a "high class" affair. If I were to take the family to India, or China or Nigeria, I suspect people around me would be somewhat more interested. Perhaps it has something to do with the sense Americans have of being superior. Travel to a less prosperous area of the world is unthreatening to our self-image, while travel to Europe is a threat to that self-image.

Or perhaps I'm being too analytical, and it's all so much simpler than that....

Back in small town Indiana, I was surprised by all the negative comments I got about having a Spanish foreign exchange student! It was repeatetly suggested that our lives would be negatively impacted by having a dirty(!) European with such large cultural differences and poor language skills living in our home! She was actually questioned at school about things like whether or not Spain had cars yet. I think when people don't get out of their own little cultural bubbles by travel or at least education and reading, they sometimes can have very negative views of others. As it turned out, her parents are a doctor and an architect and we soon found that our families had so much more in common than we felt with anyone else in the town. These "culurally different" people are now some of our closest friends whom we regularly vacation with. Sometimes disinterest in other cultures is a form of prejudice that is eliminated by travel.

Randy, I can relate to your thoughts, and Terry, I live in Indiana, and have had similar experiences. I just avoid talking about my travels. People do ask how my trip was, and I'll usually just say fine and maybe add a brief comment or two. I have heard there is talk about how I afford to go to Europe every year. In my case, I don't feel it's jealousy, just a difference in opinion on how to spend money or where to travel. Many people here go to Las Vegas annually, a place where I have zero interest in visiting ever.

Like others, I really enjoy the helpline and reading about others' European trips, and I have travel friends who enjoy talking about travel, so not talking about travel to family and co-workers or other friends who don't share my interest doesn't really bother me but I can relate to your comments.

(edited)

I looked over my post again while I was looking through the new posts to the thread and realized how negative I sounded. I didn't mean to sound like I'm living in a society where I can't discuss my interests, because I can. For example, one of my best friends is South African, we always talk about different cultures, wanting to travel to, or live in Europe; so I do have the support from my immediate family (parents, sister), and close friends. They're close friends because we share similar interests I suppose which makes talking about it easier. I think they understand I'm not gloating, but rather it's just my pure excitement.

The resistance comes from the people who aren't in my tight little circle of open discussion, and cultural enjoyment. For me, I notice a bit of pushing back from my slightly extended family (aunts, uncles, etc.) as well as people who are very much in my life but not my truly closest friends.

I apologize for my second post being so long, I didn't intent for it to be, but I felt like I needed to clarify my first post.

Randy - I was actually referring to attitudes to my travels generally, not to those in Europe. E.g. to places that are as expensive & as far-away to a Brit as Europe is to an American.

The thing about Americans viewing Europe as a high-class affair thing is interesting. I'm not sure what the equivalent for us is. I know a few people who have been on 5 star luxury holidays and high-end cruises, but don't recall any real bad feelings from other people.

I just always find that people love to hear about a person's travels (as long as you don't make them look at 400 photos!). Whenever someone at work comes back from their hols everyone gathers round and quizzes them for ages!

Fascinating thread! I am very outgoing and find myself talking about my trip to anyone who'll listen. Now I'm worried that I may be an obnoxious bore! My circle of friends seem genuinely interested in my travels and ask tons of questions...and I'm equally as interested in whatever is going on in their lives.

I really get the financial issue, though. I would NEVER ask someone how they can afford something...why do people think it's okay to ask me? My hubby is a cop and I am currently a stay-at-home mom, tho I'm working on my credential and plan to go back to teaching when my youngest is out of high school. My hubby has the option to work overtime and that is how we are able to afford traveling, along with frugal choices we make in our everyday life. Just last weekend, we installed a wood laminate floor in our master bedroom ourselves for a total cost of approx. $300! It's funny how one friend questions how we can afford to go to Europe this summer, then seems shocked that I would buy the cheapest wood laminate I could find! I calmly explained that the $1700 I saved is paying for ALL of our train trips and flights once we get to Europe. It's all about choices and priorities as many posters have already stated. I personally believe that finances are a private matter, but I'm always open to share how to make Europe affordable and have actually convinced a couple people to save for my girls only trip next summer.

@Teena--"One of my brothers is the biggest offender of all and I'm getting revenge. I'm taking him and my sister-in-law (One of my travel buddies) to Italy next year to shut him up once and for all."

um...so can i offend you so you get 'revenge' on me? ;-)

this is a great thread--i forgot to copy/paste it, but the quote about $10,000 in memories rather than in the garage...that's why we do what we do. this will be our first trip to europe--coming up in less than two months--but it is not our first trip (heck, we're going to vegas for a week before we leave for europe--try explaining THAT to people who think your four week trip to europe is over the top!). we travel because when we are old, we will have memories of the trips we've taken. and, more than likely, we won't care that people judged us for making that decision!

I'm not panning Las Vegas, it's just not my thing and it doesn't make me feel superior. If that's where people want to go and it gives them pleasure, it's OK with me. There are places in Europe I don't care to see, too.

Well, I for one, don't want this healthy discussion to devolve into a discussion on the merits of Las Vegas!

But it actually does remind me of another travel-related issue that I had thought of before and only just now realized might in some way be related to what we have been talking about here. It's this;

We often use the terms "vacation" (or holiday) and "trip" interchangeably and I don't think they are quite the same thing.

To me, anyway, "vacation" suggests diverting away from your regular life in a way that is primarily relaxing and/or entertaining. These tend to be short and focused. These tend to not require a great deal study or research.

"Trip" suggest a journey to learn and experience new things. These tend to be longer, require prior knowledge, study and research. While people enjoy them immensely, they are not particularly relaxing. They require energy. They require focus in a way that much of regular life rarely does. That is part of the attraction.

Another analogy would be in reading fiction vs. non-fiction. It would be absurd for the reader of one to be critical of the reader of the other. But it would be just as absurd to suggest they are the same just because they are both books.

Interesting, for some reason, my perception of "trip" vs. "vacation" seems to be the opposite. I see a trip as something short and focused, with a set destination and duration. Whereas the word "vacation" gives me an impression of a long-term departure that is a little more open-ended.

For example, I'd call 3 days in Vegas a "trip" and a 3 weeks in Europe a "vacation"....okay, I am done talking about Vegas :)

James you are now being a bit silly, I mean, ,, you know there is a big difference in visiting Las Vegas and Europe and its not the money.. its the history and culture one has and the other doesn't( which doesn't mean its not fun for some people,, it is fun)

Lets imagine we had to go to our childrens teachers and JUSTIFY why the child should be excused from class for a week to visit either Las Vegas, or Europe.. do you think there might be a difference there James?? LOL If not,, you don't have kids in school.

Not denigrating people who go to Vegas... I'm denigrating Vegas!

Randy, What you call a trip, I would call a vacation. It may not be relaxing in the sense of sitting on a beach reading a book, but it is relaxing in a sense because it takes me away from the stresses and routines of everyday life. It's enriching, it's stimulating, and it's fun. That's a vacation to me!

Ok, fine. Not everyone uses the same terminology. But I think there is a difference between five days spent in Vegas or Cancun or taking a Carribean cruise or Disney and 3-4 weeks seeing a country (in Europe or elsewhere) in depth and trying to learn about the culture and history. We don't have to get into what's good or bad. It's more about intellectually active vs passive.

Come on, folks, we can admit it here amongst ourselves. We do too think European travel is superior. But that goes back to the hobby comparison. Most people feel their particular hobby and way of spending money is superior to every one else's. If you have no interest in cars, your gearhead neighbor can't understand why you pay the dealer to service it. And you don't know why he'd spend all weekend tinkering away in his garage when he could be online planning his next trip.

People spend their money on what they want to. Sometimes pointing that out to someone who is envious can change the way they spend money. (I suggest you avoid that with smokers, though. Might get a cigarette in the eye.)

For our last trip, I blamed my mom. I implied that she was paying for most of it.

There are definately two types of holidays I take. I also like cruises,, and have even gone to Disney and Hawaii ,, and there is nothing wrong with those type of holidays,, they are restful( as Carrol pointed out). But there are holidays that truly do enrich you in more ways then resting you up and giving you a tan.. and although Europe is certainly NOT the only place it is defiantely one of the places one could take that sort of holiday.

I enjoyed reading all the comments on this topic. My husband and I are teachers who constantly listen to coworkers talk about how they can't believe we travel so much, how can we afford it, it must be nice, etc. Yet they have all the high tech gadgets, wear the latest trends in all their clothes, and have their daily $5 latte. Traveling is a great hobby and way to learn. I think, like with many things in life, people criticize what they don't understand. Keep on travelin'!

Randy, make sure you make it 'down under'. The experience compared to Europe, as you can imagine, is like chalk and cheese. If you make it to South Australia, Adelaide, in particular, PM me.
I'm not surprised you encountered Aussies in one of the most far flung places on earth. We just gotta do it!!!

This is a kind of rambling reply, but bear with me, I have a point…After graduating from college as a “non-traditional student”- in other words, older than usual- I debated whether I should do the responsible thing and settle immediately into a career or do something that was less secure, but more flexible allowing me to save up and travel when I had the chance. I was leaning toward the responsible track partly because I knew my father was starting to need more help around the house, and here's the sad thing, I worried what others would think. After all, I wasn’t getting any younger myself."It's about time she setteled down..." That was when my fairy godmother or guardian angel intervened. She knew how much I wanted to travel and she convinced that it was in fact BECAUSE I wasn’t getting any younger that I should follow my dream.( I'm not suggesting you can't travel when you get older, my fairy godmother was in her 80's and still very active) I kept coming up with reasons why I shouldn’t, she kept giving me reasons why I should. I’m so very grateful that she did! I took the opportunity to work a less secure, less career-oriented job that allowed me to travel more; I was the happiest I’ve ever been... Fast forward a few years, I’m now a full-time caregiver for my father while I deal with a serious health issue myself. I don’t say this in a “poor me” way, I’m glad I can be there for my dad, and I plan on beating my illness. My point, finally, is that if you love (or live) to travel, you should do so any chance you get- to heck with what others think!!! You never know what you might face in the future, so smell the roses- or eat the gelato, or drink the wine, (play the slots in Vegas if that's your thing;) ) etc- while you can. Life is too short to worry about justifying your passion to others.

I always think about what St. Augustine said..."The world is a book, and those who don't travel, read only one page". We have traveled our entired married life after living in Germany right after we got married. All the things you see and experiences and wonderful memories you have...PRICELESS I don't care what others think...we do it for us.

"Another analogy would be in reading fiction vs. non-fiction. It would be absurd for the reader of one to be critical of the reader of the other. But it would be just as absurd to suggest they are the same just because they are both books."

Sorry, Randy, I have to challenge your statement. There are lots of thought-provoking, enlightening, not-just-for entertainment novels out there and you can learn much about history and culture from well-written fiction. And there’s a lot of diverting and relaxing non-fiction too.

Cindy, I would never ask anyone how they could afford to travel all the time either! Mind boggling isn't it?

I think many here are like us. We all seem to save the extra pennies, and cut spending wherever we can so we could have our wonderful FIX.

An acquaintance of mine always tells me of her little trips to Florida or Louisiana. She cannot help beginning either an email or a telephone conversation like this: "I know my LITTLE trip to Destin, FL cannot compare to your wonderful trips, but it works for us, so we are going back."

I have never been to Destin, so I always ask questions about the area, the beach, shopping etc., because one day I may very well go out there to spend a couple weeks. Likewise for Louisiana.

Really interesting and thought-provoking thread! My family has been all about travel since before I was born. Right now my father is rather disgusted with my nephew's wife because traveling isn't "convenient" with two toddlers (i.e. she doesn't like being cooped up in a car with them for 12 hours). Given that my folks traveled to Florida every summer for 2 weeks starting prior to my birth in 1963 with my older siblings in a car with no A/C (and continuing up until I reached high school), I can see his point--my nephew and his wife have it MUCH better. Our family also hasn't limited our travels to the US, but all over the world (my folks have so many frequent flier miles from when my dad was still working that they rarely pay full fare for flights and it can be hard to keep track where they are flitting off to next). I guess I am also lucky that my co-workers, while sometimes envious, are never negative. However, given we are at work, I limit talking about my trips to a brief synopsis on my return. Right now I am envious of my brother's two eldest sons--one is in Kenya on a medical mission trip and the other will be heading to China soon to set up an internship for fellow students. As others have said, it is all about priorities. Obviously my family has made travel a priority.

Nancy, I love your family! :-)

My kids have already said that when they leave home and have a career, their focus will be on saving for travels, buying a small house and car. That just warmed the cockles of my heart.

<>

Sorry Pat, but your reply to James is a bit arrogant in my opinion.

Any teacher worth his/her salt should be thrilled for either vacation. Travelling outside one's "borders" is a perfect means to expand a child's mind, whether it's to Las Vegas, Paris or some podunk town in Canada. All three will allow a child to see that not everyone is the same and that cultures vary from place to place.

As for your belief that Las Vegas lacks the history and culture that Europe has, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you are white. If this is the case, then you are judging Vegas by its "white" history and culture and totally forgetting about the rich culture of the people who lived in that area for quite a while before white people came to North America. I'm not slamming you on this. Most white Americans and Canadians do this (Europeans do this too when viewing the US and Canada). For a lot of people, history begins when the Europeans showed up. The problem with this way of thinking is that there is a tendency to forget all about the people and history that were there BEFORE Europeans arrived. There is also the tendency to forget that not everyone in North America is of European origin and therefore will not see Europe as culturally/historically superior to Vegas. (From some of his posts, I'm guessing James in Germany is NOT white).

I guess what I'm saying is that every place has history and culture (even Vegas!) and unless there is a magic yardstick that measures history and culture, every destination should be treated equally as an opportunity to expand one's mind.

Hope that didn't sound too harsh. It's late and I'm tired. :-)

This thread had quite a run. I was happy I asked the question & thanks to all of you who posted similar stories and/or suggestions.

(now I'm kind of hoping it will be allowed to die with a little dignity left....)

I cannot believe that Rick Steves did not add Las Vegas to this board! With the rich culture which is comparable to Europe, he needs to add it!

I got a sweet PM from someone on this board who thanked me for taking my children on trips since they were infants. They have had road trips in the US. They also experienced driving from the Mid West all the way to Playa Del Carmen in Mexico, and also living in Mexico for a year. We have been going around our own city this spring taking pictures and really "seeing" all that we have to offer. We nicknamed a park we frequent as Hyde Park, and another is our Versailles. We have a blast in Branson every year, and we also enjoy shopping trips to Dallas.

It's not that we only live for Europe, but Europe (and I make no apologies), is special to us.

Lastly, I want to say that for all the time I have been on this board, I have not seen any mention of someone's colour until James in Germany brought it up. Now we have Kathleen taking wild guesses about someone's colour. What is this board coming to...

"now I'm kind of hoping it will be allowed to die with a little dignity left...."

No no no, Randy, it's not going to be that easy--that's not how things work here. This is your punishment for starting a philosophical thread.

We don't let a thread like this die until everyone is thoroughly exhausted and just gives up. And apparently we haven't reached that point, yet (we'll see).

Kent, that's because not one person here has mentioned Wales...or have they? The thread has taken on a life of its own, so I may have missed Wales somewhere along the line.

If not, Wales is the place that most are envious of my having travelled to a long time ago!!! :-)

Dear Kathleen,

I agree that many people forget the rich pre-Colombian history of the Americas as well as the dynamic culture of Native Americans, however, I don't think that people who equate Las Vegas with glitz amd gambling are automatically Eurocentric racists. Many of the same people who enjoy Siena and Gdansk also appreciate places like Taos and Acoma. Right or wrong Las Vegas is just associated in most minds with casinos. I don't think any offence was intended.
Hope I don't sound too harsh either:)

Sorry Randy.

Kathleen,, thank you,, your post was funny.

I asked my sons girlfriend ( who is First Nations) if she knew alot about the culture and history of Las Vegas,,and she died laughing when I showed her your post too.. cause she said "she must be white too" since all she knew about Vegas was it was a gambling mecca for people who liked buffets... LOL She may be wrong about that,, but it sure has NOTHING to do with her skin colour or mine.

That was me. Hitler! There, we validated it.

Since the Stasi were a product the GDR, not the Nazis, I don't think that counts for Godwin's law.

According to what James in Germany said, one can now say that:

Rick Steves is more cultured than anyone else.

Rick Steves is more superior because he writes/visits Europe all the time.

I always wanted to say these things to Rick but never had the nerve...sigh.

If you look at the top of this page you will see the heading, "Rick Steves' EUROPE." How arrogant of this man!

And we his followers (very faithful at that), have become as superior and cultured as he is...or have we?

I bow to the wise one who figured Rick and the rest of us out. :-)

Let me get this right....someone denigrates Las Vegas, a place where, yes, there is a lot of gambling, neon and tackiness, but is also a showcase for the modern combination of artistry, architecture and engineering. And, a great home base for day trips to the Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam, Lake Mead and Red Rock Canyon.

Yet liked Branson, Missouri????...the home of the blue hairs and entertainers who have been put out to pasture?

My take on travel is simple...people should do, go and experience it the way they like it. Whether it's renting a beach house on the same beach every year, or backpacking through the Amazon, or staying in 5 star hotels in Europe....whatever works for that person is right. And if we judge someone else's type of vacation, then expect them to judge us.

If people ask about my trips, I tell them. If not, I don't. It's my trip and I really don't care or worry what they think. I do what appeals to me and they should do what appeals to them.

It seems that some, though, are very defensive about the way they travel and get upset if someone has a different way of doing things. Why should you care unless they are forcing you to do something you don't want to do?

That's what divorce court is for.

Seriously, if you worry about what others think of your vacation plans, then you may, in reality, be worrying about what others think of you.

Sorry, I'm not going sift through all the neon, loud noise, artifice, buffets and over-priced shopping to discover and appreciate some indian heritage that may or may not be buried under the mountains of schlock in Vegas... I'll look in some place that isn't so obnoxious on the surface closer to where I live (and I don't mean the local Comanchee casino either!).

Cindy, I AM probably an 'obnoxious bore' about my travels-especially the last month before I leave. However, travel, and especially travel to Europe, is my passion and I think I am lucky to have friends and family who understand my passion. The others probably just stay far away from me the last few weeks before I depart. Part of what I love about this message board is that I can talk about my travel experience and learn from other's experiences with like minded people who share my passion. It is probably the same reason I enjoy RS tours so much. I can travel alone, but with a group of people who tend to share my same passion.

All hope that this thread could simply die with some degree of dignity left has been totally lost. Strange to see multiple threads where superiority and race have become issues somehow. As for Las Vegas and Branson, they both suck.

Michael, I knew Branson before it became a "wannabe" Las Vegas. We go for the lake and hiking, because we are a few hours away, so it is a "quick" getaway. I forgot to mention travelling to Eureka springs as well, and trying to imagine that we are back in Switzerland. :-)

FrankII, have you been to Las Vegas and Branson? My sister has, and she said Branson is the "cleaner" of the two in many more ways than I can explain here.

Now Wales on the other hand...

Well, visiting the Grand Canyon this year would be great, as long as you’re prepared to show the Stasi your papers! And, there are some really cool ancient ruins in Casa Grande, but again, you’ll need your papers. It’s just becoming too hard and dangerous to vacation in the U.S.

Who was it that used to mention Godwin's Law? Are we there yet?

Tom: I wanted to give credit to the proper group of fascists, but “Nazi” is just so over-used. Stasi (I know...communist) seemed a bit more contemporary. Anyway, one man’s Nazi is another man’s Stasi, so I’m going to suggest that Godwin’s Law has been validated, indeed. :)

James,, I made it clear I DO vacation in other places besides Europe,, and that other places and types of vacations definately had their merits.

You are argueing in circles.

And James,, why did you feel the need to bring Elis husband and their relationship into this debate,, really , shows a terrible chip on your shoulder. I have been plenty pssed at others before,, on this site even,, but I do not delve into their personal lives.. I may bash their travel, or political ideas or information, and I have rarely, but definately thrown a personal jab at someone, but I do not presume to feel sorry for anyones husband, wife, child or girl friend. That's lame, its so easy to throw that at someone,, "oh your wife must hate you since you are such an arrogant a" would be easy to say,, but I 'd rather say " I hate you because you are such an arrogant a" .. what if that persons wife just died of cancer the month before,, keep it to the person you are pssed with and stop the reaching James.

Techinally, this thread is ready to be closed,, it has become way too nasty,, and it was because a few people have chips on their shoulders.. and / or are going too far off topic. I admit some guilt to that, so I will sign on this thread.

"I wanted to give credit to the proper group of fascists, but “Nazi” is just so over-used. Stasi (I know...communist) seemed a bit more contemporary. Anyway, one man’s Nazi is another man’s Stasi, so I’m going to suggest that Godwin’s Law has been validated, indeed. :)" Let's cover all our bases- Hitler, Stalin, Gestopo, Stasi, Mussolini, KKK, SS, KGB, GRU, Lenin, Kim Sung Il, Moa Tse Tung, Jack the Ripper, Vlad the Impaler, Timur the Lame, Idi Amin, Nero, Satan, the monster that lives under my bed... There, I think that did it. What were we talking about here?

Let me get this right....someone denigrates Las Vegas, a place where, yes, there is a lot of gambling, neon and tackiness, but is also a showcase for the modern combination of artistry, architecture and engineering. And, a great home base for day trips to the Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam, Lake Mead and Red Rock Canyon.

Just to expand on this a little bit, Las Vegas is also now a major art capital.

Las Vegas has a Guggenheim, Hermitage, Bellagio Art Museum, Las Vegas Art Museum, and countless galleries scattered throughout the city. The city has one of the most valuable collections anywhere in the world.

I still wouldn't go again...

Michael,, just because you say so,, but really , when I looked for top museums and art collections in the world, and in USA.. Las Vegas was on neither lists.

Out of 33 listed galleries and Musuems listed as best in America,, there were none listed from LV.

In the top ten list of world,, three were from the United States ( Met in NY, Art Insitute in Chicago, and National Gallery in Wash. D.C.),, and the other seven were all in Europe.

When you pronounce that Las Vegas has the "valuable collections in the world" the city, ,, I have to wonder, are you counting the rhinestones in the Liberace Museum.. LOL sorry, had to add that, and realize its a bit flip,, but sorry, I have never heard of Las Vegas having WORLD class museums,, even compared to what is available in your own country I think it pales.

Personally I would go to New York or Washington D.C. to see some great collections in the STates.

Hubby and I went out to dinner and talked about this thread. Then we got out a napkin and a pen and started jotting down favorite places and favorite sites and all I can say is...wow. That is cool! What was not cool was trying to figure out how much we have spent on all those trips and realizing I could have my own Italian sports car in the driveway. Darn...back to praying my car makes it to work tomorrow as I count the days until the next vacation!

I'm going to take a wild stab here and guess that this thread won't be selected for "Rick's Post of the Month."

sorry, I have never heard of Las Vegas having WORLD class museums,, even compared to what is available in your own country I think it pales.

I never said LV had the best, or most important, or even largest collections in the world. I said "valuable", ie dollar value. Steve Wynn is one of the largest collectors in the world. The museums have been open for less than ten years. It takes decades to build up a collection.
BTW, exactly how many artworks from Vermeer, Renoir, Picasso, Hockney, Lictenstien, Viola, Degas, Legar, Maya Lin, and Frank Stella are on display in Victoria?

.......so sad...... :(

Randy, thanks for bringing up a topic that has generated a "Firing Line" response. The Helpline was getting a little boring.

ROTFLMAO! My co-workers are looking at me funny...

Let's see, I am an arrogant snob because I like traveling to Europe. Oh, wait, does wanting to go to Disney World and ride Space Mountain negate that? Or really enjoying some of the kitschy "traditional culture" shows available in Europe (like the Stadtkeller in Luzern)? Wait, then I go and work at pronouncing and spelling localities correctly so I guess that throws me back into the arrogant pool, doesn't it?

Nancy, yes it does make you quite arrogant. How dare you pronounce those words properly. Next you will be telling us that you indeed pass for a local! What a cheeky devil you are.

You shall be chastised soundly from others. Mark my word :-)

I am here to chastise....ooohhhh, no, just teasing,,,omg, what a wild ride this thread has been, but perhaps we can bring it to a delicate close.

Back to the original post...Randy, I live in a very small town...folks don't travel a great deal at all, much less to other continents, so we have also generally felt uncomfortable about discussing our wonderful days in Europe. Just don't want to feel as though we're bragging, even though it's just joy of experience. Wrong perception I may have of people...perhaps, but still there is a bit of discomfort for us as well. So only among family and a few close friends who have also traveled there, and my armchair traveler father, who served in ETO 1944, is now 85, and loves that we go to the places he saw then, do we really let loose with chats and giggles about the wonders of our experiences there. And I made a web scrapbook and have Picasa web albums of images, so that those who truly wish to share in the experience of our travels may do so if they wish. And I teach 6th grade world cultures, so it's fun and special to share with my students as another way of expressing the joy of our European travel.

Please bring the discussion back around to the topic of the original question.

Quite an impressive number of people here have had a say already so it is no surprise that the thread got off track. Nor would it be a surprise if the thread would fade away at this point. It has done some good already, I think.

But my original quandary remains. I can think of no other activity that comes even close to playing as big a role in our lives, that we have to tap dance around talking about with others. I don't expect there to be a solution, really. Just commiseration, mostly.

And if that commiseration were to continue here, that would be great, too.

btw Michael,, I never touted Victoria as cultural/art destination,, and certainly NOT a place one would visit if one wanted to see world class collections.

You are touting LV as that.. for some strange reason.

Just like Vegas,, Victoria has its value ( we do have great First Nations history and sites, plus nature aspects( whalewatching etc) plus of course the World Famous( and rightly so ) Butchard Gardens.

But as a cultural destination,, well, that would be a bit of a stretch. Just like Vegas would be even more of a stretch.

"Please bring the discussion back around to the topic of the original question."

Gladly. It's really quite simple. Talk about your trip if the audience has an interest. If they don't... talk about something else. Just as your life-changing visit to the Cinque Terre may have no resonance with your coworker, you are justified to not give a damn about the amazing Star Wars convention he recently attended. Next thread...

PS- Vegas still sucks and Wales rules!

Tom,

Your approach may be common sensical, but it is also somewhat unfairly dismissive. I may think a Star Wars convention is silly, but you can bet I would ask someone who went to one a question or two about it. Limited though it may be, I have enough knowledge about it to be able to have a short conversation and would be genuinely interested in what draws them to something so dorky (though I wouldn't say that out loud :-).

Getting into a ridiculous discussion about the value of one thing vs another or one place vs. another isn't even relevant. It's more about not having a major part of your life ignored. The world is full of small talk, often on the most inane topics. Yet, judging by dozens of responses here, many people have found this subject difficult to talk about. I think that's a bigger issue than your "solution" solves.

Vegas and many European cities have something in common: the people watching is amazing.

Now some of you will discredit it, but I love the history of Vegas since Bugsy came to town. I find it fascinating -- a real slice of Americana. I also enjoy paying $100 for a 5 star hotel (priceline). I visit twice a year, have for years, and that includes when I lived with the mold people (Seattle).

James,, why so bitter?

It's interesting to talk about travel.. this is a travel forum,, and perhaps this thread has gone a bit off topic,, but why are you so unhappy about it.

Its like t.v. , if you don't like whats on ,, don't click on it.

"It's more about not having a major part of your life ignored." But if people just aren't interested?

We all seem to agree that most of us would like to talk about our trips more than we do. At some point, though, we just have to accept, to paraphrase the trite title of a popular book, they're just not into our trips. And really, isn't it a bit self-centered to wonder why they're not?

Back to the original question. I was going to post but the thread had taken off in some unusual directions.

Yes, everyone thinks we're rich - except the IRS. That was also true when we opened our own business years ago. The poorest periods of my life were being a starving college student and owning my own business. :)

If anything the years being a slave to my business made me realize how important it is to spend your time doing something you really like - for me travel. I regretted the opportunities to travel I had missed and knew I could never reclaim those years.

One of my best friends in high school was a big Mexican kid who played football with me. His father always said, "Everyone can afford one luxury in their life. Ours is food." They did eat very well and I benefited from eating at their home often (not sure if that's why his mom always called me "Bread"). The luxury my family affords now is travel.

"... most of us would like to talk about our trips more than we do. At some point, though..."

Actually, in my case at least, it isn't about wanting to talk about our trips MORE. It is about wanting to be able to talk about them AT ALL.

That is a significant distinction to make, I think.

It never fails to impress…internet message boards expose freakish social weirdness and untreated instability. And, I’m not talking about Randy!

Randy: As for the original topic, why fret over it? We’ve learned to only discuss our travels both here and abroad with like-minded friends and family (pretty small group) who enjoy travelling as much as we do and are genuinely interested in sharing these experiences. We don’t discuss it with other friends and family (most of the group) who don’t share these interests. It’s simply not productive. The same can be said for any number of things we value and are important with respect to our beliefs. We’ve found that a very small group of folks in our larger circle are quite passionate and active about the many things we have in common. Discussing any of these things with others from the larger group of people we care about, however, can actually alienate friends and family, and we don’t want to do that. It’s sort of like that old adage about not discussing politics or religion at the dinner table. I just don’t go there with friends and family when I know my interests, values, or views are not shared or are completely contrary.

Oh yeah, Las Vegas and Branson still suck!

To the younger members of your family, just say, "I'm spending your inheritance."

After my first trip to Europe I tried to show a few slides of my trip to my family. They were not interested. So I limit my travel conversations with them to answering their questions and mentioning really interesting things that happened. "Guess what? I saw the hospital where Angelina gave birth to her twins!"

Having been bored over the years with detailed descriptions of a family member's travels, I've learned that most of what any of us does is just boring to other people.

This topic seems endless. I hope everybody feels "helped."

In exactly 40 days, I will embark on a 7 week European tour (my third trip to Europe) and I have found that my colleagues are interested in my planning (I am a teacher) but most think that a woman travelling that long by herself possesses something that they do not, they call it bravery. They also realize that this trip, and planning it, has got me through a very tumultuous year (divorcing) so many people comment on how glad they are that I can be happy. I am lucky that my extended family loves to hear me ramble about the travel research I am doing. I know I have not added any new ideas to this post, but I can relate to your situation! We all have to find our own ways to 'live' our lives. Do we want to accumulate possessions, or accumulate experiences?

I think the term "Europe" just brings up thoughts of expensive and exotic vacations, so many people think it is out of reach. Consequently, some people look upon European travelers as exotic as well. Of course, that is not true. The same is true for a lot of other things - cars for example. Many people around where I live drive 50K Chevrolet suburbans, and no one blinks and eye. Show up in a 40K Mercedes, and heads will turn and mouths gossip. I vote for doing what I want and letting others think what they will.

Brad, loved your view - now can you convince my husband?

One more comment, Randy. Maybe you need some new friends, meaning is there a travel group of some sort in your area where you could meet others who are interested in travel? Something like the Alliance Francaise, or maybe the HL folks in your area could meet, like the Denver crew does. I know it doesn't solve the family issue but just an idea. Also, we'd all love to hear about your trip when you return and hope you will give us a report.

One thought I just had. I subscribe to a couple of services that scan the web for the best travel deals available. One of these comes into my work in-box weekly and I will read a few of them aloud to my colleagues prefaced with, "Where are we going this week?" Some of the deals are really incredible--Ireland for 6 nights including air, hotels and car for $699 for example (of course, that is from NY, but even adding $200 or so to fly from Dallas still keeps it affordable). So for the folks who think that a trip to Europe is going to cost thousands of dollars, subscribing to one of these travel deal services and sharing the info occasionally might be a way to infect THEM with the travel bug.

I know the family and friends in my life to whom I can talk about Europe with, and those I can't. My brother and sister-in-law are not interested in going to Europe at all, even if my sister-in-law grew up in the UK. They do have different priorities, such as becoming debt-free early on, which I have to respect. On the other hand, they will say comments like, "I don't get the point of spending thousands of dollars going to Europe for a couple of weeks. I have seen most of the United Kingdom, so there is no point in travelling elsewhere in Europe." I do understand that on one hand, they want to be completely debt-free and have their mortgage paid off early. But I do wish they would not insult my hobby. On the other hand, I do have to admit that I feel that travelling to Europe is more spectacular than travelling to an all inclusive resort in Mexico, so I think I am just as arrogant as my brother and sister-in-law when it comes to travel.

Lisa, I think it is wonderful you could turn your divorce woes into something wonderful like travelling to Europe!!! I wish you a wonderful trip, filled with beautiful experiences.

I loved what you said: "Do we want to accumulate possessions, or accumulate experiences?"

I tell my kids all that time that I will be spending their inheritance on travelling. :-)

We have three trips coming up: Trinidad & Tobago in June, UK/France and possibly Amesterdam in July, and Hawaii in August with the kids.

There goes the remodelling money once again, LOL

I recently updated my facebook status to "starting my 100 day countdown"

my friends were curious about what the countdown was for - when I told them Europe - here are some replies my friends posted:

• J E A L O U S !

• I'm going to pinch you on Saturday because I'm so jealous.

• So jealous! You're going to get to eat lots of yummy food.

• How awesome is that! I'm hating!!

My husband and I plan to enjoy EVERY MINUTE of our trip! :-)

Randy,
My husband is a middle school teacher and I work part-time, so we are far from wealthy; but like you, we put aside every penny for over a year, made arrangements for several "free" home exchanges, and managed to spend SIX WEEKS in Europe last summer! Frankly, I consider it almost a miracle that a family of 5 on a teachers salary (living in an expensive NJ suburb) could pull that off - and to be honest, I am immensely proud of myself for making it happen. It was a memorable, wonderful, culturally enriching experience for the whole family including my husband, myself, our two children (7 & 11) AND my mother. It was so wonderful that we are planning to do it again next summer. You should be very proud of your travel accomplishments. Whenever I tell people about our trip, I usually tell them how much I sacrificed for it. Most people are not willing to part with the things we do in return for travel or they need something "physical" to show for it. My memories are far more tangible and worthwhile to me than a new car, expensive jewelry or a gourmet kitchen could ever be! Fortunately, I have not encountered the negative reactions from people that you have; except from my husbands brother. But frankly, he's lazy, he doesn't want to work hard at anything, and he spends the money he does have foolishly - so that's his problem! I usually get a lot of interest from people pertaining to the home exchanges. I do have a hard time getting my family to look at ALL my vacation pictures, but that my be because I took over 2000 pictures (ha ha). In any event, jealousy is a natural human trait - we are all prone to being on one end or the other of it, it's inevitable. There will always be people with more than you, and there will always be people with less than you, and there's not much you can do about it! You are obviously not flaunting your travels, you are doing nothing wrong; as far as I'm concerned your doing everything right!

I think my next trip will be to Ocean City, NJ based on Tom's earlier review. It's only about a 1 1/2 hour drive from me and yet, I've never been! If Toms out there, what is so wonderful about it? I pass by on my way to Cape May.

A big part of my love for Ocean City is highly personal, because I spent so many of my summers there with multiple generations of my family. It's probably one of the least sophisticated shore options in New Jersey, but it has a family-friendly coziness that I absolutely adore. Also, best salt water taffies (Shriver's), best frozen custard (Kohr Brothers) and best shore pizza (Mack and Manco) to be found anywhere!

Here's a litmus test I use: If you say "I'm going down the shore", you'll probably like it. If you say, "I'm going to the beach", then it's probably not for you.

uh oh, I say I'm going to the beach! I'll give it a try anyway. I've heard from others that it's somehow "old fashioned" - and I like old fashioned!

I thought everyone one knew that 'going down the shore' was Jersey, 'going to the cape' was Cape Cod and 'going to the beach' was Myrtle Beach. Used to go to the cape, now I go to the beach, but ny BF from Philly grw up going down the shore.

It's all relative.

"I've heard from others that it's somehow "old fashioned" Yeah, pretty much. It's barely changed in my living memory. How many other shore towns still have a music pier that hosts a summer orchestra?

http://www.buyoceancitynewjersey.com/images/ocmusic_pier.jpg

And because this is a European travel forum, here's a trivia question. What is the connection of this house on Wesley Avenue in Ocean City, to Europe?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/4049361335_dcf9a41b16.jpg

(Not the best picture, but I couldn't find a better one online)

I'm a "Jersey Girl", I live about 20 minutes drive to the water's edge, but I don't say "going down the shore" and I never say "Jersey". I've never heard anyone who lives in NJ call it "Jersey". My relatives from Long Island do call it "Jersey". It's New Jersey to us NJ'ians.

What is the connection, Tom? It looks like a villa to me.

OK, the European connection... the house was built in the 1930's by John B. Kelly of Philadelphia. Kelly was the son of Irish immigrants (no, that's not the connection I was talking about!) who made a small fortune in the brick business. At the time, he was well known for winning 3 Olympic gold medals in rowing. He built the house in a vaguely Mediterranean style that was popular on the shore at the time. Although it may look like an Italian villa, it's actually a fairly modest house on rather small lot. He and his family spent their summers there. One of his daughters won a local Ocean City beauty pageant. She far surpassed her father's fame when she became one of the most popular movie actresses of the 1950s, known for her restrained, almost regal beauty. So regal, in fact, that she married the ruler of this small European principality:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Hafenansicht_Monaco.jpg

And if you haven't made the connection yet, here's his daughter:

http://www.freewebs.com/silver-valkyrie/1950s%20Hair/GraceKelly2.JPG

Yup, Princess Grace of Monaco spent much of her youth on the humble beaches of Ocean City, NJ! You can sometimes find postcards there with her picture. I seem to recall that in an interview later in her life, she mentioned that the happiest times of her life were spent on the beach and boardwalk of Ocean City.

Wow! That is sooooo cooool! I can't believe that is not more common knowledge. What a claim to fame for Ocean City, NJ! Of all the places that her life took her, her happiest times were spent on a quiet NJ beach - what a plug for NJ beaches!

I have to admit that growing up in the states I was taught by general society/popular culture that for the most part recreactional foreign travel was for the wealthy. If that's what folks belive, they will never allow themselves to be confused or by the facts.
I know lots of American friends and relative who will redecorate a perfectly nice-looking room, or replace a computer/stero/speakers/TV that was in perfect working order. To them these expenditures are normal, reasonable spending, but somehow the same (or even less) money spent on foreign travel is excessive, irresponsible, or a senseless attempt to keep up with the Joneses. Ah well, it's their loss.

If you say, "I'm going out," you're probably from California. At least that's what the surfers, of my day, said as in, "You going out?""No, it's blown out. Maybe later when it glasses up."

Similar to the people of New Jersey and the reality show, real surfers had a great deal of disdain for what we called "Hodads", people who used terms like dude and totally but probably never surfed in their lives. Sean Penn's Spicoly made a lot of people think that's what surfers were like, but he actually portrays a perfect Hodad. :)

I sure hope no one thinks people who reside in NJ are anything like that "Jersey Shore" reality show. I've never seen it myself, but it sounds horrible!!!!

Although I'm not from New Jersey, I've spent my life defending that state. Most people are only familiar with the small part across the river from NYC, which really is the armpit that all the stereotypes imply. However, most of the southern half of the state is actually very rural, with surprisingly large tracts of undeveloped wilderness. I have to explain to people from Kansas, that no, the water is not, in fact, polluted with medical and industrial waste. And no, I've still never heard a single person in real life talk with the stereotypical "Joisy" accent.

How did we go from a discussion about not being able to talk about Europe to a defense of New Jersey?

People from Philly call it Jersey - I guess they're not as formal as you people from New Jersey.

"People from Philly call it Jersey" Not exclusively. We use the term "Jersey Shore", but otherwise refer to the state as "New Jersey". Yes, I'm from Philly originally...

Loved the story about Grace Kelly, Tom. My grandparents and parents grew up in Philadelphia and knew the family (I think all the Irish Catholics knew each other back then). My grandmother's best friend was Grace Kelly's aunt. I heard lots of stories about Grace Kelly growing up, but never knew about that house.

I love Ocean City too. I spent one summer there during college and went on vacation a few times. I have not been there for maybe 20 years though. Is Hickman's still there? That was my favorite place (takeout seafood).

I am a New Jersey native, which probably explains why I always call it New Jersey.

NJ really does get a bad rap due to the turnpike area around Newark airport with all the refineries and ugliness. It really is horrible and depressing looking! However, it' a really bad first impression. NJ is a beautiful state, actually called the "Garden State". Great Beaches, NYC, Philadelphia, and even mountains in the north. It's just expensive! Apparently, we are losing residents faster than gaining because of the high cost of living here.

My last job was in customer service for a mutual fund company. I took a call from a broker who said he had just returned from Paris. I told him it was my favorite city & asked how he liked it. A big pause and then the remark, 'Boy, they must be paying you too much'. Nervy of him.

I took early retirement from a large insurance company. Just 3-4 days before leaving for Europe, my job was eliminated. I was later told by an executive that I apparently needed my job less than others since I could afford to go to Europe. I did find another good job within the complany when I returned, but it put a damper on that trip.

Rose,

That's a great (and awful) story. The exec. tried to impress you and was stunned that it backfired. Too bad he didn't have the class to just let it go.

That same exec. would be totally lost trying to survive in Paris on $200/day (including lodging), since he probably spent that much on lunch.

If only people realized that a day in Paris was cheaper than Orlando & Disneyworld.

I too finally realized that people who talked about wanting to travel but who would back off when I suggested that they go on a trip with me just had different spending priorities. They don't seem to judge me for my choices, though, or at least I don't hear the gossip!

I live in a rural area of Kansas and teach at a state U, so I am around many people who have traveled to and lived in different parts of the world. We have "Travelogue" presentations about once a month where people share their travel experiences--to Iceland, or Costa Rica, or Spain. I might do one in the fall about my trip this summer to Orkney and Scotland. Maybe you could check with a local college to see if they have such a series (or a travel club, etc.) where you could talk about your trip to an interested audience. While many of our students have never even been out of state, they are very curious and want to hear about travel. My trips are investments in myself as a teacher, and I know that I give students the idea that travel is a possibility.

I travel a lot, but people who know me know that I am a frugal person and that's why I can do it on my salary. The others I don't care about. My grandmother is the most judgmental, but my grandfather got to take only one trip to Hawaii with her just before his retirement. Then he died of cancer after saving for forty years and putting off traveling until he retired and "deserved" it.

Life is too short to save up your experiences and dreams for later. It's great that your children get to travel with you, Randy. My mother couldn't afford to take me and my brother anywhere much when we were kids (although we had great fun on a VERY frugal trip one summer--one of my best memories), but she has been incredibly supportive of my choice to travel, and I took her to Ireland with me last year when I took students on a tour. We had a blast. She is my hero, and you are a hero to your kids too, I am sure. Who else matters?

So, in the last 6 months or so, I created a budget and started keeping a detailed list of how I spend my "disposable" income each month. It was pretty amazing to look back on these lists and see how much money I had spent on, say, clothes that I would wear once or twice, or buying lunch more often than making one at home.

Instead of buying things with the mindset of "I have ____ in the bank, gotta spend it", I created a flat amount I allow myself to spend each month while putting money aside for savings, bills, etc. Just being more conscious of how I spend money has allowed me to save over $1,200 since January -- that is after buying airfare, and I have until October to keep saving!

With the right mindset, I think a lot more people can afford to fund their own Euro trip than one would think.

It's sad that you can't talk about something that is such large part of your life with your nearest and dearest. Some people are jealous and perhaps a little mad at themselves because they don't want to make the small sacrifices that most of us do in order to travel. There are others who, if it not all about them, are simply not interested. You can't change them so if you're not related to them , kick them to the curb I say. Who mentioned blogging? Well it's a good thing. I remember Maggies blog from a couple of years ago. Maggie was traveling alone in Europe for 8 (?) weeks and her blog and photos were fascinating. I love hearing about other peoples trips and seeing their photos. WHICH reminds me: There should be another catagory titled What I Did on My Vacation. I don't feel superior because of my trips, you can't help what (or who) you fall in love with.

As you have proven, middle class people can travel if they really want to; but many have no desire, and don't want to hear about it, not that they are envious, but because it bores them. Their universe is right in their own neighborhood. "There's no place like home"...The more I have travelled, the more I can appreciate that. As I send my two sons off to Europe in 10 days for 2 months...and will join them there after six weeks.

I saw this last night and it reminded me of this conversation. From the 2nd season premier of the brilliantly surreal British TV show "Spaced". Watch as Daisy returns from an extended tour of Asia and her friends don't quite share her enthusiasm about her travels (skip to about 2:45, the first part is just a recap of the previous season):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2pu_Pm_B1k

Tom,

Her: "Ah, I don't know where to start....!"

Him: "The end?"

Perfect. That's my experience most of the time.

BTW, nice typewriter she has on her backpack!!

www.lee-reid2010.blogspot.com

First, I haven't read all the posts so may be repeating what others have said.

I am surprised to see how many people seem to feel guilty or apologetic for their travel. I talk about my journeys all the time. When people express surprise that I can afford it I just respond that travel is important to my family and we save for it. We don't drive expensive cars, wear trendy clothes, live in a big house. We travel to see this big wonderful world. So that's what we spend our money on. Everyone has different interests and passions.

I am now the goto person in my office when people have travel questions because they know I love it and am always interested.

Randy, it is odd to me that your family expresses no interest in your travels. Try being bold about it and just dive in with tales of your adventures. Maybe your enthusiasm will pique their interest.

It's not just a question of money...the financial means to carry out your desire to travel. For some it may be the key issue. The greater part is the desire and priority. If you rather sink the money into a new car after buying your current one only 6-7 years ago, that's your prerogative and maybe your priority as well. If you prefer traveling only in the US or the western hemisphere, or not at all, you have that choice. Not me. And that is not me. I am glad I have the opportunity and limited means to travel in Europe over the years since 1971 and the 16 trips I've made over there. Am I an euro-centric traveller...most definitely. I prefer spending my vacation money earmarked for traveling just in Europe, period. I don't travel in the US or to Japan/China (not yet)...I much rather fly over to Europe to be in France, Germany, England, Wien, etc. It's a matter of interests and interests determine priorities, if necessity is not part of it.

As others have pointed out in their experiences, I, too, have found very, very few people here interested in hearing about my travel sites or experiences over the years...only the closest of friends, who are travel bugs themselves. Those who don't care to hear of my travels, I just clam up. I attribute that to a lack of interest or ignorance, which is their prerogative too. It's my choice whether I respect their viewpoint or not.

If you happen to be in the mood for Vegas, go to Vegas, so what? If you want to go London, do that.

Whenever the subject of overseas travel comes up I make it a point to tell people that it really does not have to be more expensive to travel to Europe than to travel in the US. Even hotels in Paris can be reasonable if looking for ones recommended by RS. There are great sales on airfares and it's possible to eat simply. They just don't realize the possibilities but I'm happy to share information and turn people on to Rick Steves (I'd really like to convert everyone into travel bugs). We all know that after the first big trip you are going to be hooked forever. The trick is to make it seem un-intimidating and hopefully relate the travel to what interests the other person.

I am constantly making small choices on what I spend my money on in order to save for my travel plans and feel that this is my lifestyle choice, and most people I know are happy for me that I am able to do this. However, god forbid I should make any small comment about how expensive something is, or even joke about money in some way. THEN I get the look that says: well, if you weren't always jetting off to Europe, you too could have...a car, cable tv, etc, all the things I chose to go without. We who travel alot know what a truly enriching experience it can be, and I do like to share my experiences, but I guess I've learned who is or isn't going to be interested. I guess I wonder sometimes that my family thinks I'm nuts to travel so much, but it's my life, its what I do, and I make o apologies for it. Keep on traveling!!

(It lives!!)

It occurs to me that, deeper than the issue of whether or not a peson has a travel bug, is the issue of whether or not a person is interested in history, art, sociology, or the greater world around them.

For better or worse, many people simply are not. Their lives and imaginations are filled by what is nearby.

For a few, whether to travel or not really is mostly a question of cost, and for their sakes, I try to do what I can to share what we have learned over the years to keep costs to a realistic minimum. But for many others, cost isn't the primary roadblock.

Just wondering...does this thread win for the most responses?

Great thread Randy, and your blog was wonderful!

Randy, I've just got to tell you I laughed when I saw this thread again. It does seem to be living a life of its own!!

I was surprised by how many people wanted to hear about our trip when we got back. We went to a graduation party and even though most of the people there didn't know us well,they asked all about the trip and were disappointed that we hadn't brought our pictures! So far most frineds and family have been supportive and enthusiatic. I'm always hungry to here about other people's trips so I can vicariously join them-that's why I enjoyed your travel blog so much Randy.

Thanks guys. I can't tell you how much it helps to know others were reading and enjoyed it.

I am glad that this thread has popped up again - the original question, not the various detours. We were away (in Europe) back in May when the question was posted.

I have a somewhat different problem. Much of our family cannot afford to travel. It isn't a matter of spending money on cars, homes, etc., etc. The money is simply not there (trust me on that).

They could all understand the first trip to Europe several years ago, as we had never been before together (I did some travelling alone as a 20-something "a few years ago".) They could also understand the trip this year, since we were celebrating a significant birthday and anniversary.

However, I have no idea how I'm going to tell them about the trip next year. (We had a real health scare in the spring that kept us on pins and needles. We didn't tell them about it and nothing came of it. However, we came to the conclusion that life is too short not to do things that we want to do. We are going to have to be very frugal for the next year or so to make it work, but we can do it.)

So, I think that there are going to be some hurt feelings, simply because most of them would be off to Europe like a shot if they had the means, but it is not possible. (A couple were able to do it once, but cannot do again. For another, we paid her airfare to the UK for a family visit, but that is all we can really do.) They will all be glad for us, but at the same time, hurt because it reinforces the fact that we are able to do things they cannot.

So... I am left pondering how to approach this. This sort of thing can become a realy problem in families, when the members' lives have taken different directions over time.

Did anyone else notice the irony of Randy's post from the day he got home from his trip? I quote, "...we also tried to avoid being noticed by our neighbors. As much as we like them and love talking about travel, the last thing we wanted to get into under the circumstances, was any “So how was your trip?!?” conversations."

Just teasing, Randy. As you know, I loved your blog.

Ann, I have been there, too. Some people I know couldn't afford it, no matter what, but I have been there, too (I had some really bad years- lay-offs followed by an ugly divorce, as soon as I started to recover from the lay-offs), so I downplay my trips, and have sympathy with where they are in life right now. I also have health issues that are unresolved right now, and may or may not impact my future ability to travel, so I tell people- I am going now, because I might not be able to at all, it might be really limited, or my finances might change in 5-10 years (I am not old.) Life is short, and I am frugal otherwise.

Ann,

That twist is different than our situation. We're all of modest means here, but everyone I can think of has enough grown-up toys and other optional expences that they could travel if they wanted to. They just don't.

But what you describe is a very real problem, too. Probably the best thing you can do is to not bring up the travel unless someone asks, and then respond honestly and directly, but briefly. If you think anyone will make snide comments ("must be nice to be so rich") think of a sincere response that will make them look small if they continue.

Carroll,

Yea, I see the irony there. On a related issue; we recently had a block party and I was pleased to be asked by several neighbors how our trip was (most of them have taken a long trip or two and have their own travel stories to tell. It's more our relatives who can't relate to the travel). We were happy to swap a few short stories. But that begs the question; What do you do when you get the "So how was your trip?" question, and you don't know if they want to hear "Great." (like you do when someone says "How are you?", but you know they really don't want to hear any real answer) or if they really want to hear how your trip was?

I mean, there is no way to answer that question briefly. But if you go into any detail, the little voice in the back of my head says "don't brag - don't be boring - don't talk too long - don't gush - but be interesting..."

Am I the only one that is this neurotic?

I'm pretty much that way too. I usually answer in one sentence and see how they respond. If people are really interested, they will ask more questions, and then I'll tell them more.

I sure hope this web site has a limit on the amount of space one thread can take up. Most of what I have read on this thread is not question and answer, but rather long winded dissertations on people's personal situations. A lot of these replies should have gone PM to Randy, if he has a PM. So, bring on the rebuttal and take up more space.

It seems to me that travel is full of "personal situations". A scan of this thread's history (if you omit the Vegas digression) would reveal an amazing number of people having similar issues. That seems relevant to me.

Of course it might be wise to clear some web space for more questions about what to wear to blend in or what your opinion is of someone's 5-day trip to London, Paris, Berlin and Rome and whether or not they might have time to squeeze in Athens.

The simplest way make this thread go away if it offends you is to not post on it. By posting a complaint or snide comment - knowing full well it will also prolong the thread - you are being counterproductive.

Have a nice day.

P.S. No matter what you wear you will never blend in and there is no sane way to do that much in that short of time.

There. I just saved the web lots of space.....

Is it time to revalidate Godwin’s Law for this thread?