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How big is too big for a car in Europe?

Hi! We'll be traveling through most of the western European countries (probably mostly in France, Spain, and Italy) this coming spring (mid-march to mid-june) and have secured a Peugeot 2008 via the short-term lease program offered through Auto Europe. I've never been to Europe, and have done enough research to know that if you're going to drive around Europe, you don't want to be doing it in a really big vehicle. Compared to the current Mazda CX-5, the Peugeot 2008 is a foot shorter in length, 5 inches wider, and 6 inches shorter in height. While not "small" by European standards, we figured a vehicle this size wouldn't present too many challenges.

For context, our plan is to use the car to get from city to city, exploring smaller non-touristy towns on the way and never taking it into larger city centers. In the larger cities, we plan to stay in apartments on the outskirts/suburbs and use public transit to get into the city. This is both to save money on lodging and to get the chance to better see what it's like in the places where regular residents eat, sleep, play, and work.

So is this car too big? We still have time to change it up at no additional cost. And if it is too big, is it too big in a specific dimension? And where, specifically, will the size be a problem?

Thanks in advance!

Posted by
8009 posts

How big is too big? As cars get bigger in the USA (even Hondas and Toyotas!), smaller seems to be the situation in Europe. Maybe a lot of that has to do with gas prices, and with parking space. Smart cars and other minuscule vehicles are numerous in places like Rome, where squeezing into what doesn’t really look like enough space to park is an art.

There are Jeeps, but not Grand Cherokees. Fiat 500C cars seemed to be very popular last year, and those are 8 inches narrower and maybe about 2 1/2 feet shorter than a Peugeot 2008. But how small is going to be too small for you? How many people will be in your leased car, and will you be hauling luggage other items at all? Get something big enough, too. Just be ready for parking challenges, even with a small car.

Posted by
17 posts

Our trip is a loose loop that begins and ends in Amsterdam. It's definitely an added expense to pick up your car outside of a couple locations in France. Figure on an extra €500 for delivery to and pickup from an airport like Schiphol.

It's just me and my wife, two small-ish checked bags (60 linear inch total dimension each) and a purse and a small backpack. We definitely have considered the cost of fuel and parking. So far, we've had quite good luck finding rentals with free or very reasonably priced parking, even outside Paris, where we found a well-reviewed apartment in Vincennes five minute's walk to an RER station that's a ten or fifteen minute ride to the Chatelet Les Halles station which includes parking for €10 per night. Mostly we've been able to find places with free parking without compromising on location or quality of accommodation.

Posted by
34047 posts

as it is your first trip, chris, I'll just mention that mid-March to mid-June sound suspiciously like about 90 days, plus or minus.

It had better be minus because with 90 days (in any 180) or more comes overstay of your Schengen limit and potential really nasty consequences.

Good advice is to plan several days minus because of the possibility of accident, illness, flight issues, car breakdown all of which could tip you over.

In counting Schengen days both arrival days and departure days count, anything as small as one minute from midnight to midnight.

It is possible that you have all this worked out in which case, disregard.

Also as a first timer it is getting very late to get your passport if that's not all taken care of...

my biggest concern with the car measurements is not the height, or especially the length unless you will be doing a lot of parallel parking, it is that extra width you speak of. Parking spaces in parking lots and garages can be really narrow, and it isn't just getting the car into the space, it is getting the door open and you out in a very small width between cars, especially if anybody in the group tends to larger sizes.

happy trails

Posted by
17 posts

The width was my primary concern, too.

I see now that I made a mistake in my original measurements...I was using the measurements of the Peugeot 2008 including side mirrors to compare it to the Mazda CX-5 without side mirrors In actuality, the 2008 is about 4 inches narrower than a CX-5. The 2008 is about 6 inches wider than Peugeot's 108, which is (i think) their smallest car. So maybe we're okay?

I had considered all those other things, but thank you! Our trip is 86 days, and our passports are valid until 2027. :)

Posted by
6614 posts

We had a Peugeot 2008 on our last trip. We picked up in Lille and returned to CDG. With just the two of us, we would have preferred a smaller car. I think the car was considered and "upgrade", and we just so happened to get automatic which was kind of nice, and it was a nice car. On this trip, we weren't in many historic centers with narrow roads. There were some parking lots in Belgium with spaces that seemed rather narrow so we had to be careful getting in and out of the car. It was a bit challenging in city center of Senlis where roads were narrower, otherwise, no big deal. We did spend a fair amount more on gas this trip. We would not have liked this car when we were in the Basque areas of France and Spain, and going through the Pyrenees and also in the white villages in Andalusia, Spain. It also would have been quite problematic in the smaller Rioja wine villages. Sorry, I'm not much of a "car person". I guess bottom line that the Peugeot was quite comfortable to ride in, but in Europe, we always prefer a smaller car.

Posted by
3109 posts

Why are you renting a car? I know that, for US tourists, going on vacation means, usually, driving. But in Europe, driving is not nearly as necessary nor as convenient as it is in the US. How many are in your party? As it is 2, a car is seldom needed. In the US, hotels have parking. In Europe, that is not as often true.

Before you commit, consider trains. You get no traffic tickets on the train. In Italy, there are ZTL issues (and if that term is not familiar, you need to learn about it). There is parking. If you are like most people, you will be transiting from one town to another every 2-3 days, and the car will be sitting in a car parking lot, at your expense, while not driving. In many places in France and Italy, there are automatic speed cameras which issue tickets for speeding. What is the cushion for driving (miles over the limit)? In the US, we are used to the 9 MPH cushion. In France, it is more like 3 KPH.

Do you have a detailed itinerary (day to day)? That's what you should concentrate on now. Once you have that, there are websites which tell you how to go from one place to another - I like rome2rio. That can tell you how long it will take on a bus, train, and car. Also prices.

Posted by
17 posts

Jules,

Thank you for reporting your personal experience. This is what I was hoping for.

Paul,

Regarding our approach to this trip (car vs. no car) we have given it a ton of consideration, and while conventional wisdom in Europe is to use public transit everywhere with occasional car rentals, that didn't make sense for us. We do not have a detailed itinerary, by design. It's my first time in Europe, yes, but I'm not going there blind.

Posted by
7949 posts

Are you very close to the Schengen-zone time limit? You don't want to risk bad weather or car breakdown putting you all in violation of the un-visa'ed stay time.

It sounds like you never expect to be in a high-rise garage. I ask because you'll find that ramps and stalls are much smaller in Europe than they are at home. This SUV looks a little big to me, but if you're using surface lots at "business motels", you should be fine. (Note that some hotels have their own underground lots, others have no parking at all.)

Have you thought about whether you can completely and utterly conceal all the luggage when you make a tourism stop en-route to your next hotel? I presume you know you should not be seen using or hiding the luggage at the place where you exit the car!

It is impossible to answer your final questions without (and I'm not saying it's a reasonable request) knowing every town and city your are going to visit. There are lots of very old medieval (say) centers, with archways and sharp turns on non-straight streets. And there are countries like Greece (and cities like Naples) where the locals park lawlessly, sometimes blocking public roads. I made the mistake of driving in Amsterdam, and found many single-lanes of travel, with delays for garbage trucks and trade vans that temporarily blocked all motion forward.

Posted by
565 posts

I recall a 1980 work trip to Germany. Our company (in those days) relied on the "secretaries" to make travel reservations. At the time, company policy was to rent "economy" cars. Our department secretary had no clue that when she rented an economy car for us that it would be too small for 4 guys, our tools and our luggage. We arrived in Frankfurt to find that the car we needed to drive to our destination 2 1/2 hours away was a Renault Le Car. We somehow squeezed in and headed off into a snowstorm with it. The defrosters could not keep up with our breathing. We ended up having another car delivered to us several days later.
I have rented quite a few small cars in Europe and what I have found is that a moderate sized car is not a problem. Consider the Audi A4 as an ideal mid-sized car. I have never had a problem driving one of these or a similar sized vehicle.
I have often used public transportation in Europe. Trains, buses, taxis, it all works quite well. That said, to truly enjoy the countryside, a car adds a degree of freedom and access that you will never experience if you don't try it.
Since that trip in 1980 I have had one parking ticket. It was in Germany in 1983. I was careless. I have driven all over Germany, France, Italy, Hungary, Spain, Portugal...never with any particular trouble. If you take the time to learn the rules and if you follow them, you will not have any trouble.

Posted by
17 posts

Tim,

I had considered our ability to completely hid our luggage. There are almost no cars for rent or lease in Europe that have a trunk, and those that do have really small trunks. Everything is a hatchback. That said, like many hatchbacks, the 2008 has a cover that hides what's in the very rear of the vehicle. I know that'll probably just keep honest people honest and not deter a thief, but our bags, and everything else of any value, will be kept there, under cover. I've lived in big cities in the US and know the precautions one must take against property theft. Despite some of the anecdotes you read hear and there, I do not believe that European cities are worse that the American cities I have experience with.

Mack,

Thanks for that story! Ha! The Renault Le Car was some car. Man, I can't imagine four grown adults in one of those!

Posted by
2575 posts

Our family has rented cars in Europe multiple times. Our last adventure was 3 weeks in an 8 seater full size van. I guarantee that THAT is TOO big. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/3-weeks-6-people-and-a-full-size-van-oh-dear

I recommend getting the smallest car possible to fit your group and luggage. We typically rent estate cars, since we are a family of 4 and they provide the most cargo space. We’ve never had an issue with them. We’ve had to circle a bit to find street parking big enough, at times. And there have been some teeny, tiny, narrow roads in villages where we’ve pulled in side mirrors when there is oncoming traffic. You will do the same, I’m sure.

You shouldn’t have any problem in that car. You’ll have full insurance coverage for any scrapes or dents along the way.

The biggest challenges driving in Europe are: 1) learning the rules of the road (which can vary country to country); 2) the various environmental restrictions that various cities gave (also vary country to country!); 3) roundabouts are everywhere, in case you don’t have experience with them. Yield rules vary country to country; 4) have cash ready for tolls; know if you need to get special “vignettes” (Switzerland and Austria, for sure) 5) speed cameras are EVERYWHERE and will ticket you for 1 km over the limit. No joke. 6) exits on the motorway are few and far between. If you miss yours, the next could be 20-30 km away, with no ramp to turn around and go the opposite direction. Very different from the US. Get very comfortable with a navigation app.

Posted by
1682 posts

Apart from specific trips to Rome and London, the missus and me have always rented a car. A Smart For Two can hold two 27 inch suitcases plus a couple of bags.

Posted by
17 posts

I mean, if you watch Rick Steves shows about Europe, there's always a delivery truck or two in every video, right? Haha.

Posted by
2551 posts

The Peugeot 2008 is a "compact SUV". It is the kind of car I rent when I need a car. Good choice in my opinion.

Posted by
7068 posts

I agree with the people asking why you're renting a car for the entire trip, especially if it's your first time in Europe.

But to answer your question, what too big is really depends on a lot of things. But if there are two of you with a couple of smaller bags, you don't need a car as big as the 2008. You will be fine with something Golf-sized. If you are stuck with Peugeot through the leasing program, get a 208 instead. The 208 has plenty of space for two + luggage and is 70 mm narrower than the 2008. Those 70 mm can make a huge difference when parking in small spaces.

And as others have mentioned, make sure you know the rules of the road in every country. And get an IDP each.

Posted by
5557 posts

Unless I'm on a city break where I'll be spending the duration in one city I always have a car when travelling in Europe. Public transport isn't as convenient that many people make it out to be and considering the amout of travelling you'll be doing it makes perfect sense to have a car.

As it's just the two of you and with the amount of luggage you'll have it might make sense to get a smaller car. You'll find it easier to park, fuel economy should be better and you might find it cheaper as SUV's usually command a higher price. Expect it to be a manual transmission.

I also wouldn't worry about the lack of a trunk. All hatchbacks have a parcel shelf that conceals what's stored beneath.

Posted by
1461 posts

I agree with JC. We pretty much always rent a car when we go to Europe. It’s convenient to use the trains if you want to travel from city to city but a car is essential for more rural areas and small towns. You can see a lot more and be more flexible.

I would not be worried about the 2008. A small car is likely to be lacking in engine power for the motorways. You need something a bit bigger for the amount of driving you are planning to do and the 2008 is not huge.

Posted by
2405 posts

The Peugeot 2008 is a medium-sized car very common in France and Europe, ranked 3rd in sales at Peugeot

You worry unnecessarily about these possible problems when driving, parking or using this car. Apart from perhaps a few very specific cases, no 2008 users in Europe care about that.

I have driven a rental 2008 in several European countries, in big cities in France as well as in the countryside on small mountain roads in Portugal, and even on a small Greek island, it is a car suitable for all environments .

Posted by
17 posts

Thank you everyone who has contributed so far. The 2008 we have leased is indeed a manual transmission. I could have gotten an automatic for a couple hundred euro more, but I enjoy driving a stick, and miss having one. I read recently that 1% of new cars in the US are manuals, while almost 75% of new cars in Europe are manuals. Part of the reason people here in the US pay so little attention while they drive, IMO.

I really don't understand the "why would you rent a car?" comments. I've plowed through thousands of pages of Rick's guides and read (and heard) his specific advice on cars, and after doing a lot of research, it's a total no-brainer, at least for seeing Europe the way we want to see it. I feel like everyone is set on the idea that you need a hotel above the Spanish Steps and one in Paris where Napoleon slept, and to do all the "checklist" tourist things to have a good European vacation. While that may be what a lot of people are looking for, it's not what we want.

Appreciate all the feedback. This is a fantastic forum!

Posted by
7218 posts

Rent the smallest vehicle that will hold your luggage in the trunk/boot. The last 4 times (2022-2023) we’ve rented and were given Hyundai Tucsons (intermediate) or Seat Aronas (compact SUV). As long as all your stuff is out of sight and you don’t open the trunk or hatchback right after parking you should have no problem. It’s when there are things left in the open (coins, cables, GPS, etc.) or you open the trunk and people can see there is luggage in the vehicle that you stand a better chance of being broken into. The only time I rent an automatic is when visiting the UK.

We get rental cars when the majority of a trip is to small towns and villages, and off the beaten path locations that are not well served by public transportation. My guess is that many tourists only visit the popular destinations well served by public transportation. Hence, their recommendations to not rent a vehicle.

Posted by
2267 posts

I had a very slightly bigger Kia Sportage in Galcia this September. I could have (and maybe should have) gone smaller, but there was never a problem driving.

There was one time when the parked car got blocked in and I had to get in the passenger side and climb over—I'm not sure a step down in size would have made much difference there—except giving me less room to cross the center console!

Posted by
34047 posts

my days of vaulting the gear stick are past (last time was in Dallas in 1979 in a Volvo 242) so what I do in those rare situations now is let the brake off and push the car back out of the spot until the door is clear... don't forget to put the brake back on before letting go of the car... I almost had to do that 2 weeks ago in Cambridge, England, but I was >just< able to squeak in...

Posted by
2405 posts

If I understood correctly, you will rent a car in Amsterdam and you will go to several European countries with it.

Note that there are regulations for low emission zones,

ZFE in France which require you to have a specific sticker on the windshield to be able to drive in some large cities. I read that you intend to go to Vincennes, please note that this sticker is required in Vincennes (except weekends and public holidays) which is part of the Paris ZFE. Your Amsterdam rental car will obviously not be equipped with this sticker.

All the information about low emission zones in France and how to obtain the sticker here:

https://www.france.fr/en/holiday-prep/crit-air-anti-pollution-vehicle-sticker

Posted by
17 posts

I think our car will be equipped with whatever it should have for driving in and around Paris. It's not a rental car, it's a short-term lease, and it's a brand new car that's being delivered to us at the airport in Amsterdam from Paris, I believe. I'll look into it though! Auto Europe did not promise it would be diesel or gasoline, which i know can be an issue in some European cities which have outright bans of diesel vehicles.

Posted by
7218 posts

For the emissions zone sticker, the vehicle will probably only have the one for France, but ask the company you’re leasing from. If that’s the case, you’ll need to plan your route more carefully. Germany has a bunch of emissions zones and Spain has more than it used to.

There is an app, green-zones, that will show you where the emissions zones are.

Posted by
34047 posts

If your car has a yellow Crit'Air (France) and a green 4 Umweltplakette (Germany) you should be ok in both of those countries as long as odd/even alternate parking isn't imposed in France. You will need to register the car for driving in and around Belgian cities.

Posted by
17 posts

Interesting! I'll reach out to Auto Europe and find out what we will need as far as permits and stickers for the places we plan to visit.

Posted by
2405 posts

Since Auto Europe is not supposed to know that you are going to drive in low emission zones, I would be surprised if they provided you with the Crit'air sticker for France even if this car has a French registration.

Posted by
7949 posts

Chris, we only use a car for less than half our trips to Europe. But we've been lucky, and have not had our car broken into. But it's a very common warning on this newsboard. I had my car broken into in NYC, back decades ago, when even factory-radios were getting stolen. As you know, crime is not as high today as it was back then. I'd suggest that a thief might target a parking lot that presents almost NO "locals", and may be some steps from the actual attraction. You'll have a new car, but I've had rentals with "No cargo cover" pre-printed on my contract!

My wife rented a car in Belgium for business a lot, ten years ago. She got very used to taking her luggage out of the car before backing into a tiny stall, with the hatch against the concrete back wall, and almost having to climb out the window (like Valets do in New York City daily-garages.)

Our host, Rick, writes about "Bogus Traffic Wardens", who are typically elderly retirees with, one presumes, insufficient income. So they get a beat-up yellow vest, and solicit tips to "watch your car" while you are in the attraction. This happened to me at Italica, and in Arcos, both in Spain.

My parents leased a car in 1952, with me in a basinette (yes, a criminal offense today), for a three-month baby-moon in postwar Europe. The travel situation is very different today, but it's impossible to dissuade an American who loves the Firesign Theater slogan, "I'm high, on a clean-windshield, and a full tank." I find cars generally more of an annoyance than a convenience.

Posted by
7218 posts

I enjoy the faux parking attendants and have come across them in a few countries, mostly in Spain and Sicily. They and I know they’re just out to get a few Euros, but for a Euro they are out there in the lot and possible preventing some break ins. Well, at least until they head to the bar.

Posted by
6614 posts

@James, YES, we encountered that for the first time in Portugal. Very entrepreneurial!

@Chris, we've always rented manuals including when we've rented the Peugeot. On this recent trip, when we picked up they asked if we would like a automatic which we've gladly accepted. We both can drive a manual, its just in Europe, we prefer not to. We are not "car people" and we don't really care what we drive. While we are quite comfortable driving a bigger car or something with manual transmission at home here in the U.S, in unfamiliar areas where we'll need to park or drive on narrow roads, we prefer almost the smallest car possible, and my husband happens to be tall.

We've probably had a car for about 1/2 to 2/3 of our European trips for at least part of the time. We've driven in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and Sicily. When we have a car, we typically, stay in accommodations just at the edge of town. I have to say, I always prefer to be in city centers, so that's what I give up when we have a car. I'm thinking about Bilbao, Luxembourg City, where we would have loved to stay more in the historic part of town but had the car. Often what we do is pick up a car when we leave a city and drop off upon arrival. We did this in Sevilla and returned when we got to Granada. I will admit it was fun driving around the pueblos blancos, but close to terrifying to drive in Grazelema, Spain in Andalusia and Briones, Spain in Rioja. And we were quite happy to not have a car in Palermo, Sicily, where we had a great time staying in city center. In San Sebastian, Spain, we parked out of the historic center and left the car in a ramp for three days, and walked to our accommodation close to the water.

I just wanted to give you a taste of what we've encountered on our adventures with a car in Europe. All, we would do again, but something to consider.

Posted by
34047 posts

I'm casting my mind back through the thread and putting together 2 plus 2 (probably getting 5!!)

I think this is your first trip to Italy France and Spain, and I think we only had a glancing blow past ZTLs.

So, not answering your question in this post but hoping to save you some hassle and expense, can I strongly recommend you read up on the Italian ZTL. They are usually camera controlled and come with BIG penalties for every time you enter one. The Forum is littered with posts about them, often along the lines I have been home for months and now this scam is in my mailbox, or somesuch.

Also for Italy, TUTOR, how to use the Autostrada and the chatty tollbooths, what to do if a man in uniform waves a red light on a stick, and the road edge paint colour code, the National speed limits and what a working day is.

For France, study up on Priorité d Droit, French different colour code, French different National speed limits (special care with rural single carriageways), French Autoroutes, Bison Futé, special rules for the Boulevard Périphérique and how to park at lunchtime.

I have never visited Spain so no first hand advice there.

For all the countries you will be driving note that when you get to the name sign on the outskirts of a built up area you need to be slowed to the urban national limit (usually 50 kph unless posted otherwise like 30 kph) before you reach the sign. It doesn't say it is a speed limit sign but it is. There are often cameras immediately after it. You can't coast down to the limit. You need to keep the speed, unless restricted further, until the town sign with a red diagonal line at which time you resume the National speed limit for the type of road you entered. It is really serious.

It sounds like you have a good trip planned. Forewarned is forearmed.

Posted by
17 posts

Nigel, Thank you for these details! I have read (and recall seeing on a Rick Steve's show) that automated cameras will send you speeding tickets for going over the speed limit at all. Something I'm really going to have in mind coming from a lifetime of assuming that 5-10 mph over the speed limit is fine! While I haven't read much on the specifics of each country's rules of the road, I do recognize that there are big differences from the US...not just speed enforcement, but limited access in specific areas, costs to be on certain roads at certain times, small town police stopping and fining you and pocketing the fine, etc. I'll keep reading, and with any luck, I'll make it fine-free! :)

Posted by
6614 posts

Some countries require an international driver's permit. We get ours at AAA.

Posted by
2267 posts

I've been stung by speed cameras in Spain. Cruise control helps—set at the speed limit. Google Maps helps with situational awareness by displaying the area's posted limit (maybe not super accurate in areas where the limit changes).

Posted by
7312 posts

Crit'air environmental sticker is a non-issue if you are leasing a French-reg car. You can order it here, you will never be able to receive the actual sticker since it will be sent to the car's registration address, but the "facsimile" you get with the invoice allows you to drive.
Germany will be trickier.

Posted by
17 posts

We actually have no plans to visit Germany, so we should be okay there. We may find ourselves passing through on our way from the alps to the Alsace region, but we'll look into it when the time comes. Thank you!

Posted by
10683 posts

One thing to check:
where we live, a lot of people can't get their cars into their garages. We have friends who bought a small SUV and couldn't get it down their ramp. It now sits outside. We own one underground parking space that can take an SUV if you are an extremely skilled. We've never parked anything larger than a Renault Clio. We also have a garage on a horrible angle; only the smallest cars can enter.
A 2008 would be impossible. So check your rental parking spaces.
You might want the HP of a 2008 for the auto-routes, but there's nothing wrong with driving more slowly in the right lane in a 208.

Posted by
17 posts

We're back! I always try to follow up on the outcome of a thing I ask about online so someone who stumbles on a thread in a forum can benefit from whatever was learned in the actual application of the advice.

After 88 days of travel, driving all over Western Europe, from Amsterdam to Brussels to Paris to the Southern reaches of Spain, up to Madrid and across to Barcelona and the French and Italian Rivieras, through Liguria and Tuscany to Rome, from Rome to the Dolomites, then parts of Austria and Germany to eastern France, back down through western Germany into Switzerland and across to Annecy below the French Alps, to Lyon, Paris, back through Ghent to Rotterdam and finally back to our car drop off point south of Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, I can say that the decision to lease the car we did (a new 2024 Peugeot 2008, as discussed above) was probably one of the best decisions we made in all of our trip planning. It was incredible fun, super convenient, sometimes challenging and a little intimidating, but we saw Europe in a way nobody relying on inter-city trains could have seen it.

In 9,100 km of travel, we drove through Europe's biggest cities, navigated ridiculously tiny cobbled alleys in the medieval cores of Granada's Albaicin, suffered the tolls of the French highway system, and sped along stretches of Germany's autobahn. We slalomed twisty mountain roads, crept along the rutted single-lane dirt trail to our agriturismo outside of Montepulciano, dodged speeding bicyclists in the roundabouts of Holland and Belgium, and survived the swarms of scooters that split Rome's lanes at every red light.

We learned a lot about the countries we visited because of the car. We stayed in 34 different accommodations, and quickly settled into a very easy and quick protocol of packing and unpacking the car, stopping at roadside attractions as various as abandoned and crumbling castles in the Spanish countryside, quaint churches and farm fields in rural France, Italy's fantastic rest stops, and small town pizza places halfway from place to place. Europe's roads are peppered with illustrated brown signs pointing you to places of historic interest. Random stop opportunities abound.

We stopped in towns between destinations that we decided to visit only the morning we headed out. Reims, France on the way to Paris, and Burgos, Spain on the way to Salamanca stand out as fantastic stops we'd never have made without the car. The Roman city of Italica, outside Seville...Amazing!! Even discoveries as seemingly mundane as the amazing food available at an E. Leclerc hypermarket or the friendly staff and bright organized shelves of France's Leroy Merlin (their Home Depot) turned out to be highlights of the trip.

It wasn't all hearts and flowers. It seemed that every gas station had a different system for payment. While I eventually got more proficient at figuring this out (without speaking any of the local languages) each trip to the gas station was a tad stressful. Ha! We must have driven past two hundred or more speed cameras, drove in and out of fifteen or twenty low emission zones (with and without realizing it), and even past cameras into some ZTLs (limited traffic zones) where our host had to register our car in advance with the police to avoid and automated ticket. We didn't get a single ticket of any sort on the entire trip. The few times we used Google Maps to avoid toll roads, mostly to drive through the country and see small towns, it was a real mixed bag. Toll roads in Europe are usually in places where the alternative includes driving crazy routes through dozens of tiny towns over twice the time. I have so many stories! Ha!

We stayed near places that had easy access to public transit and almost never moved the car unless it was time to go from one apartment to another. I kept track of every penny spent on everything by category. Happy to answer questions, and will check back occasionally. What an adventure!

Posted by
2405 posts

I recommend that you contact the Peugeot Marketing department, perhaps by reading your post they will have something to send to you. :))

See what you might like here:

https://boutique.peugeot.com/

Posted by
8009 posts

Thanks for the update. We may be in a Peugeot 2008 in two weeks … my husband spent the entire day researching and booking a 9-day car rental, trying to get the smallest (Toyota Aygo, Renault Twingo, Fiat 500, or maybe Peugeot 208) car, but wound up with Auto Europe. They don’t even offer a “Mini” or “Economy” car category, and their smallest (and cheapest) vehicle is a Peugeot 2008, or other “Compact.” Pulling off the road to see the Tour de France pass by, hopefully we’ll be able to find a parking space big enough to accommodate whatever we wind up being given at the Biarritz airport. Maybe all “hearts and flowers” for us???

Posted by
17 posts

I think you'll be fine with the 2008! We really did find that the size was never a problem. There are certainly some very diminutive cars in Europe (on our trip this was most evident in Rome) but from what I could tell, their main plus was being able to take advantage of street parking in smaller parallel parking spots (which the smallest cars could pull into perpendicular to the curb). Are you really going to do this? Maybe in Rome, where people seem to park their cars on any flat surface that looks reasonably out of the way. Haha. Unless you're a scooter or motorcycle, you're still stuck to driving in a lane on the road, so smaller isn't a big advantage when you're actually moving.

We navigated some very difficult parking garages (it's as if they build them for bicycles over there!) and parked in the tiniest of spots in the 2008. I grew up parallel parking, so I have some practice. You see all sorts of vehicles the size and shape of the 2008 (and larger). We saw lots of Audi, Mercedes, VW, and Citroen vehicles that were about the same size as ours. If you drive around enough you'll eventually find yourself doing some challenging parking. I often considered whether or not I was missing a parking opportunity that would have been possible if our car was smaller and I can't remember that being the case. There were definitely times that my wife had to get out before we pulled into a tight spot between two cars, but the spots are just more narrow in Europe, and it was no big deal.

Posted by
17 posts

One thing to note about the short-term lease vehicles, should you choose to go that path... They come with red license plates. To someone unfamiliar with European license plates this may sound trivial, but you will notice as soon as you get your car and drive around that there are no other cars with red license plates! Other people will notice too. It was pretty comical. There were multiple occasions where people crossing the street or walking on the sidewalk noticed the plates and had (sometimes heated) discussions about what they meant.

When a French auto manufacturer sells a short-term lease to a tourist, they put a red license plate on the car to signify that VAT (value added tax) has not been paid on the vehicle. At least that's what I read. If you're the sort who likes to keep a very low profile, the red license plate may cramp your style a little. It was never a problem for us. I was mildly concerned to be driving around with a big sign on our car that said "here's a tourist on a 21-175 day tour of Europe!" It was never an issue though.

Posted by
54 posts

Thank you for your great trip report. What an amazing trip! Over the years of following this forum, I have read over and over to not rent a car, but we have on all our trips for the same reasons you listed. I too had to get out of our compact car often before my husband parked as there was no room to open the door in those small parking spaces, and to help navigate him in. We have a trip coming up in September and this time we are going with a mini Fiat 500 hybrid to hopefully find parking easier.

Posted by
8350 posts

Chris, thanks for the interesting thread.

I have lived in Europe (Germany) and visited 80% of the countries in Europe.

When younger, I drove in several countries. However, I would try to avoid driving, especially in Italy these days.

If interested mainly in large cities like Rome, Paris, Munich, Barcelona, Amsterdam, I would not rent. Why pay for parking in those cities and not even used them.?
If you want to do the countryside and smaller cities and towns, yes, do rent, but why not rent when leaving the large city then returning it when coming back to that large city or another? Rent a series of cars. Of course, avoid the huge drop charge of renting in one country and dropping in another.

Posted by
362 posts

Great trip report! Exciting way to see Europe! Wow! Sounds like fun!

But you know if you walked instead of drove you could have really experienced the place and I am hearing good things about Altra Lone Peak 8 trail runners.

Just saying!

Posted by
17 posts

Ha! A 9,000km walk is just what we needed to offset eating our way across Europe!

I feel like it's kind of a dogmatic refrain to dismiss the benefits of having a car the whole time for a trip like the one we took. Pressed for specific reasons why you shouldn't drive in Europe, the conversation usually gets pretty philosophical, and you learn pretty quickly that most of the arguments against driving are centered around a "that's not how you're supposed to do it" mindset that I think may be true for some, but certainly not all. I have to assume that most of the people who advise against driving are people who have just accepted the general advice that "it's a bad idea."

Some places (like our agriturismo on Tuscany) you simply cannot get to without a car. Renting cars here and there would have been another way to go, but that comes with its own administrative and time burden, which is a real consideration when you're moving around so much and staying in Europe for three months. Setting aside time to pay credit cards, check email for bills back home, contact the next host for arrival info, etc. really adds up. I would not want to add the hassle of renting and returning another car to that. I would never argue against using public transit. Indeed, we did in virtually every city we stayed in. But there are lots of reasons to drive, especially on a long trip like the one we took. First and foremost would be convenience and the ability to take a small pantry and cooking utensils with you.

Having a car is just plain convenient when you're moving around a lot and preparing your own meals most of the time. Are you going to eat at restaurants for every meal for three months straight? Good luck with that. I love to cook and grocery shop, so as soon as we landed, I got a frying pan, a moka pot, some silverware, and a chef's knife. I guess you could get all that and tote it around on trains, but will the train stop at a grocery store or market on the way from Sarlat to San Sebastian? Want to take 3 pounds of that great French butter with you for your month in Spain? Try that without a car. It was pretty nice (for example) making a dinner in our apartment in Rome with fresh fish, olives, and asparagus from the Trionfale market two blocks away, bread from Arles, France, jamon iberico from Cordoba, Spain, and French demi-sel butter bought just before we left France for Italy. Impossible without a car.

Even at our most loaded down, it was never more than two trips from the car to the apartment to completely unload or load the car. It was never a burden, and you never, ever, saw either of us doing the "rolly-bag struggle walk" that you see all over Europe as people try to get their checked bag from the train station to their hotel. I bought an 8 lb. copper pot in Montepulciano. It traveled with us for a month before we left and I never thought about it once.

Also, a lot of the things you hear about driving in Europe simply aren't true. People drive far more conservatively and obey speed limits almost religiously, even in Paris, southern Spain and Italy (including Rome) than they do in the US. Even if the driving seems a little crazy at times, it's an orderly chaos with drivers who are paying attention and engaged. People aren't staring at their cell phones and eating hamburgers while running red lights, like you'll see in the US. If you've driven in any US city, you have experienced more dangerous driving than you will anywhere in Europe. Figuring out traffic patterns and roundabouts will be new, but it's a fun challenge, not a scary one. It is not hard to find parking in Europe whether you're in the city or the country and it's often free, or at least not that expensive. It is easy to find hotels and apartments with free or inexpensive parking. It's especially easy if you stay in the parts of the city where people who live there live, rather than the touristic centers, which is what we wanted anyway.

Posted by
362 posts

When I drove in Europe, I saw lots of other cars on the road and it made me suspicious that driving wasn't exactly taboo so, yeah, good point!

Posted by
407 posts

@Chris

A great way to go. You're the man. Only way my family and I go. Remember Lewis and Clark.

Regards Ron

Posted by
2405 posts

There are almost 300 million cars in Europe, imagining all these passengers who have to get out of the car every day before parking is quite funny. :))

Posted by
5664 posts

Thanks for taking the time to report your adventures.
However, I'm very curious how you know you did not get any traffic tickets? Most of the traffic violation reports here come from very surprised drivers who received tickets via mail 4 to 8 months after their trip concluded. Since you seem quite confident you did not, please share your inside info, as it will benefit many travelers.
Also, any issues with car insurance and any dings on the leased car? This is also a frequent topic here.
I'm sure you're already planning the next trip- happy travels!

Posted by
17 posts

Most of the traffic violation reports here come from very surprised drivers who received tickets via mail 4 to 8 months after their trip concluded.

Ha! That's a good point!

I asked the leasing people at Schipol when I returned the car, and they told me most of the time you'd hear from autoeurope about any tickets you got within a month of the violation. So maybe I have hundreds of tickets! I'll have to report back in 4 to 8 months. Of course, I have no insider information...just bad assumptions!

As for the insurance, this is one of the nicest features of the lease program through autoeurope...part of the agreement is 24/7 roadside assistance and zero-deductible comprehensive insurance. You also have unlimited mileage and all of the coverage extends to pretty much all of western Europe. There's more info here: https://www.autoeurope.com/short-term-car-lease-europe/

There are some odd restrictions, though they won't apply to most people (like, swiss drivers can't operate these cars in Switzerland, and something or other in Portugal) but for the most part, it's very simple, and very worry-free.

When I dropped the car off, they asked if I'd been in any accidents, checked the mileage, and gave us a ride to the airport.

Very easy.

Posted by
17 posts

Remember Lewis and Clark.

Our trip had a more "John Wesley Powell Grand Canyon Expedition" feeling to it.

Especially the mutiny part, about two months in.

Talk to my wife. :)