How big is too big for a car in Europe?

How big is too big? As cars get bigger in the USA (even Hondas and Toyotas!), smaller seems to be the situation in Europe. Maybe a lot of that has to do with gas prices, and with parking space. Smart cars and other minuscule vehicles are numerous in places like Rome, where squeezing into what doesn’t really look like enough space to park is an art.

There are Jeeps, but not Grand Cherokees. Fiat 500C cars seemed to be very popular last year, and those are 8 inches narrower and maybe about 2 1/2 feet shorter than a Peugeot 2008. But how small is going to be too small for you? How many people will be in your leased car, and will you be hauling luggage other items at all? Get something big enough, too. Just be ready for parking challenges, even with a small car.

Our trip is a loose loop that begins and ends in Amsterdam. It's definitely an added expense to pick up your car outside of a couple locations in France. Figure on an extra €500 for delivery to and pickup from an airport like Schiphol.

It's just me and my wife, two small-ish checked bags (60 linear inch total dimension each) and a purse and a small backpack. We definitely have considered the cost of fuel and parking. So far, we've had quite good luck finding rentals with free or very reasonably priced parking, even outside Paris, where we found a well-reviewed apartment in Vincennes five minute's walk to an RER station that's a ten or fifteen minute ride to the Chatelet Les Halles station which includes parking for €10 per night. Mostly we've been able to find places with free parking without compromising on location or quality of accommodation.

as it is your first trip, chris, I'll just mention that mid-March to mid-June sound suspiciously like about 90 days, plus or minus.

It had better be minus because with 90 days (in any 180) or more comes overstay of your Schengen limit and potential really nasty consequences.

Good advice is to plan several days minus because of the possibility of accident, illness, flight issues, car breakdown all of which could tip you over.

In counting Schengen days both arrival days and departure days count, anything as small as one minute from midnight to midnight.

It is possible that you have all this worked out in which case, disregard.

Also as a first timer it is getting very late to get your passport if that's not all taken care of...

my biggest concern with the car measurements is not the height, or especially the length unless you will be doing a lot of parallel parking, it is that extra width you speak of. Parking spaces in parking lots and garages can be really narrow, and it isn't just getting the car into the space, it is getting the door open and you out in a very small width between cars, especially if anybody in the group tends to larger sizes.

happy trails

The width was my primary concern, too.

I see now that I made a mistake in my original measurements...I was using the measurements of the Peugeot 2008 including side mirrors to compare it to the Mazda CX-5 without side mirrors In actuality, the 2008 is about 4 inches narrower than a CX-5. The 2008 is about 6 inches wider than Peugeot's 108, which is (i think) their smallest car. So maybe we're okay?

I had considered all those other things, but thank you! Our trip is 86 days, and our passports are valid until 2027. :)

We had a Peugeot 2008 on our last trip. We picked up in Lille and returned to CDG. With just the two of us, we would have preferred a smaller car. I think the car was considered and "upgrade", and we just so happened to get automatic which was kind of nice, and it was a nice car. On this trip, we weren't in many historic centers with narrow roads. There were some parking lots in Belgium with spaces that seemed rather narrow so we had to be careful getting in and out of the car. It was a bit challenging in city center of Senlis where roads were narrower, otherwise, no big deal. We did spend a fair amount more on gas this trip. We would not have liked this car when we were in the Basque areas of France and Spain, and going through the Pyrenees and also in the white villages in Andalusia, Spain. It also would have been quite problematic in the smaller Rioja wine villages. Sorry, I'm not much of a "car person". I guess bottom line that the Peugeot was quite comfortable to ride in, but in Europe, we always prefer a smaller car.

Why are you renting a car? I know that, for US tourists, going on vacation means, usually, driving. But in Europe, driving is not nearly as necessary nor as convenient as it is in the US. How many are in your party? As it is 2, a car is seldom needed. In the US, hotels have parking. In Europe, that is not as often true.

Before you commit, consider trains. You get no traffic tickets on the train. In Italy, there are ZTL issues (and if that term is not familiar, you need to learn about it). There is parking. If you are like most people, you will be transiting from one town to another every 2-3 days, and the car will be sitting in a car parking lot, at your expense, while not driving. In many places in France and Italy, there are automatic speed cameras which issue tickets for speeding. What is the cushion for driving (miles over the limit)? In the US, we are used to the 9 MPH cushion. In France, it is more like 3 KPH.

Do you have a detailed itinerary (day to day)? That's what you should concentrate on now. Once you have that, there are websites which tell you how to go from one place to another - I like rome2rio. That can tell you how long it will take on a bus, train, and car. Also prices.

Jules,

Thank you for reporting your personal experience. This is what I was hoping for.

Paul,

Regarding our approach to this trip (car vs. no car) we have given it a ton of consideration, and while conventional wisdom in Europe is to use public transit everywhere with occasional car rentals, that didn't make sense for us. We do not have a detailed itinerary, by design. It's my first time in Europe, yes, but I'm not going there blind.

Are you very close to the Schengen-zone time limit? You don't want to risk bad weather or car breakdown putting you all in violation of the un-visa'ed stay time.

It sounds like you never expect to be in a high-rise garage. I ask because you'll find that ramps and stalls are much smaller in Europe than they are at home. This SUV looks a little big to me, but if you're using surface lots at "business motels", you should be fine. (Note that some hotels have their own underground lots, others have no parking at all.)

Have you thought about whether you can completely and utterly conceal all the luggage when you make a tourism stop en-route to your next hotel? I presume you know you should not be seen using or hiding the luggage at the place where you exit the car!

It is impossible to answer your final questions without (and I'm not saying it's a reasonable request) knowing every town and city your are going to visit. There are lots of very old medieval (say) centers, with archways and sharp turns on non-straight streets. And there are countries like Greece (and cities like Naples) where the locals park lawlessly, sometimes blocking public roads. I made the mistake of driving in Amsterdam, and found many single-lanes of travel, with delays for garbage trucks and trade vans that temporarily blocked all motion forward.

I recall a 1980 work trip to Germany. Our company (in those days) relied on the "secretaries" to make travel reservations. At the time, company policy was to rent "economy" cars. Our department secretary had no clue that when she rented an economy car for us that it would be too small for 4 guys, our tools and our luggage. We arrived in Frankfurt to find that the car we needed to drive to our destination 2 1/2 hours away was a Renault Le Car. We somehow squeezed in and headed off into a snowstorm with it. The defrosters could not keep up with our breathing. We ended up having another car delivered to us several days later.
I have rented quite a few small cars in Europe and what I have found is that a moderate sized car is not a problem. Consider the Audi A4 as an ideal mid-sized car. I have never had a problem driving one of these or a similar sized vehicle.
I have often used public transportation in Europe. Trains, buses, taxis, it all works quite well. That said, to truly enjoy the countryside, a car adds a degree of freedom and access that you will never experience if you don't try it.
Since that trip in 1980 I have had one parking ticket. It was in Germany in 1983. I was careless. I have driven all over Germany, France, Italy, Hungary, Spain, Portugal...never with any particular trouble. If you take the time to learn the rules and if you follow them, you will not have any trouble.

Tim,

I had considered our ability to completely hid our luggage. There are almost no cars for rent or lease in Europe that have a trunk, and those that do have really small trunks. Everything is a hatchback. That said, like many hatchbacks, the 2008 has a cover that hides what's in the very rear of the vehicle. I know that'll probably just keep honest people honest and not deter a thief, but our bags, and everything else of any value, will be kept there, under cover. I've lived in big cities in the US and know the precautions one must take against property theft. Despite some of the anecdotes you read hear and there, I do not believe that European cities are worse that the American cities I have experience with.

Mack,

Thanks for that story! Ha! The Renault Le Car was some car. Man, I can't imagine four grown adults in one of those!

Our family has rented cars in Europe multiple times. Our last adventure was 3 weeks in an 8 seater full size van. I guarantee that THAT is TOO big. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/3-weeks-6-people-and-a-full-size-van-oh-dear

I recommend getting the smallest car possible to fit your group and luggage. We typically rent estate cars, since we are a family of 4 and they provide the most cargo space. We’ve never had an issue with them. We’ve had to circle a bit to find street parking big enough, at times. And there have been some teeny, tiny, narrow roads in villages where we’ve pulled in side mirrors when there is oncoming traffic. You will do the same, I’m sure.

You shouldn’t have any problem in that car. You’ll have full insurance coverage for any scrapes or dents along the way.

The biggest challenges driving in Europe are: 1) learning the rules of the road (which can vary country to country); 2) the various environmental restrictions that various cities gave (also vary country to country!); 3) roundabouts are everywhere, in case you don’t have experience with them. Yield rules vary country to country; 4) have cash ready for tolls; know if you need to get special “vignettes” (Switzerland and Austria, for sure) 5) speed cameras are EVERYWHERE and will ticket you for 1 km over the limit. No joke. 6) exits on the motorway are few and far between. If you miss yours, the next could be 20-30 km away, with no ramp to turn around and go the opposite direction. Very different from the US. Get very comfortable with a navigation app.

I'll just add this as a perspective to size and getting around Europe. I use to travel with a gang and for a good number of years we rented 9-passenger Ford Transit vans. We drove in big cities and small villages, country roads, mountain switchbacks, and highways and I don't recall us ever having any issues regarding size. We parked in underground parking garages in Berlin, parkades in Cinque Terre, Dresden, Prague, Venice, and others, as well as on-street parking all over the place.

Apart from specific trips to Rome and London, the missus and me have always rented a car. A Smart For Two can hold two 27 inch suitcases plus a couple of bags.

I mean, if you watch Rick Steves shows about Europe, there's always a delivery truck or two in every video, right? Haha.

The Peugeot 2008 is a "compact SUV". It is the kind of car I rent when I need a car. Good choice in my opinion.

I agree with the people asking why you're renting a car for the entire trip, especially if it's your first time in Europe.

But to answer your question, what too big is really depends on a lot of things. But if there are two of you with a couple of smaller bags, you don't need a car as big as the 2008. You will be fine with something Golf-sized. If you are stuck with Peugeot through the leasing program, get a 208 instead. The 208 has plenty of space for two + luggage and is 70 mm narrower than the 2008. Those 70 mm can make a huge difference when parking in small spaces.

And as others have mentioned, make sure you know the rules of the road in every country. And get an IDP each.

Unless I'm on a city break where I'll be spending the duration in one city I always have a car when travelling in Europe. Public transport isn't as convenient that many people make it out to be and considering the amout of travelling you'll be doing it makes perfect sense to have a car.

As it's just the two of you and with the amount of luggage you'll have it might make sense to get a smaller car. You'll find it easier to park, fuel economy should be better and you might find it cheaper as SUV's usually command a higher price. Expect it to be a manual transmission.

I also wouldn't worry about the lack of a trunk. All hatchbacks have a parcel shelf that conceals what's stored beneath.

I agree with JC. We pretty much always rent a car when we go to Europe. It’s convenient to use the trains if you want to travel from city to city but a car is essential for more rural areas and small towns. You can see a lot more and be more flexible.

I would not be worried about the 2008. A small car is likely to be lacking in engine power for the motorways. You need something a bit bigger for the amount of driving you are planning to do and the 2008 is not huge.

The Peugeot 2008 is a medium-sized car very common in France and Europe, ranked 3rd in sales at Peugeot

You worry unnecessarily about these possible problems when driving, parking or using this car. Apart from perhaps a few very specific cases, no 2008 users in Europe care about that.

I have driven a rental 2008 in several European countries, in big cities in France as well as in the countryside on small mountain roads in Portugal, and even on a small Greek island, it is a car suitable for all environments .

Thank you everyone who has contributed so far. The 2008 we have leased is indeed a manual transmission. I could have gotten an automatic for a couple hundred euro more, but I enjoy driving a stick, and miss having one. I read recently that 1% of new cars in the US are manuals, while almost 75% of new cars in Europe are manuals. Part of the reason people here in the US pay so little attention while they drive, IMO.

I really don't understand the "why would you rent a car?" comments. I've plowed through thousands of pages of Rick's guides and read (and heard) his specific advice on cars, and after doing a lot of research, it's a total no-brainer, at least for seeing Europe the way we want to see it. I feel like everyone is set on the idea that you need a hotel above the Spanish Steps and one in Paris where Napoleon slept, and to do all the "checklist" tourist things to have a good European vacation. While that may be what a lot of people are looking for, it's not what we want.

Appreciate all the feedback. This is a fantastic forum!

Rent the smallest vehicle that will hold your luggage in the trunk/boot. The last 4 times (2022-2023) we’ve rented and were given Hyundai Tucsons (intermediate) or Seat Aronas (compact SUV). As long as all your stuff is out of sight and you don’t open the trunk or hatchback right after parking you should have no problem. It’s when there are things left in the open (coins, cables, GPS, etc.) or you open the trunk and people can see there is luggage in the vehicle that you stand a better chance of being broken into. The only time I rent an automatic is when visiting the UK.

We get rental cars when the majority of a trip is to small towns and villages, and off the beaten path locations that are not well served by public transportation. My guess is that many tourists only visit the popular destinations well served by public transportation. Hence, their recommendations to not rent a vehicle.

I had a very slightly bigger Kia Sportage in Galcia this September. I could have (and maybe should have) gone smaller, but there was never a problem driving.

There was one time when the parked car got blocked in and I had to get in the passenger side and climb over—I'm not sure a step down in size would have made much difference there—except giving me less room to cross the center console!

my days of vaulting the gear stick are past (last time was in Dallas in 1979 in a Volvo 242) so what I do in those rare situations now is let the brake off and push the car back out of the spot until the door is clear... don't forget to put the brake back on before letting go of the car... I almost had to do that 2 weeks ago in Cambridge, England, but I was >just< able to squeak in...

If I understood correctly, you will rent a car in Amsterdam and you will go to several European countries with it.

Note that there are regulations for low emission zones,

ZFE in France which require you to have a specific sticker on the windshield to be able to drive in some large cities. I read that you intend to go to Vincennes, please note that this sticker is required in Vincennes (except weekends and public holidays) which is part of the Paris ZFE. Your Amsterdam rental car will obviously not be equipped with this sticker.

All the information about low emission zones in France and how to obtain the sticker here:

https://www.france.fr/en/holiday-prep/crit-air-anti-pollution-vehicle-sticker

also an Umweltplakette in Germany.

I think our car will be equipped with whatever it should have for driving in and around Paris. It's not a rental car, it's a short-term lease, and it's a brand new car that's being delivered to us at the airport in Amsterdam from Paris, I believe. I'll look into it though! Auto Europe did not promise it would be diesel or gasoline, which i know can be an issue in some European cities which have outright bans of diesel vehicles.

For the emissions zone sticker, the vehicle will probably only have the one for France, but ask the company you’re leasing from. If that’s the case, you’ll need to plan your route more carefully. Germany has a bunch of emissions zones and Spain has more than it used to.

There is an app, green-zones, that will show you where the emissions zones are.

If your car has a yellow Crit'Air (France) and a green 4 Umweltplakette (Germany) you should be ok in both of those countries as long as odd/even alternate parking isn't imposed in France. You will need to register the car for driving in and around Belgian cities.

Interesting! I'll reach out to Auto Europe and find out what we will need as far as permits and stickers for the places we plan to visit.

Since Auto Europe is not supposed to know that you are going to drive in low emission zones, I would be surprised if they provided you with the Crit'air sticker for France even if this car has a French registration.

Chris, we only use a car for less than half our trips to Europe. But we've been lucky, and have not had our car broken into. But it's a very common warning on this newsboard. I had my car broken into in NYC, back decades ago, when even factory-radios were getting stolen. As you know, crime is not as high today as it was back then. I'd suggest that a thief might target a parking lot that presents almost NO "locals", and may be some steps from the actual attraction. You'll have a new car, but I've had rentals with "No cargo cover" pre-printed on my contract!

My wife rented a car in Belgium for business a lot, ten years ago. She got very used to taking her luggage out of the car before backing into a tiny stall, with the hatch against the concrete back wall, and almost having to climb out the window (like Valets do in New York City daily-garages.)

Our host, Rick, writes about "Bogus Traffic Wardens", who are typically elderly retirees with, one presumes, insufficient income. So they get a beat-up yellow vest, and solicit tips to "watch your car" while you are in the attraction. This happened to me at Italica, and in Arcos, both in Spain.

My parents leased a car in 1952, with me in a basinette (yes, a criminal offense today), for a three-month baby-moon in postwar Europe. The travel situation is very different today, but it's impossible to dissuade an American who loves the Firesign Theater slogan, "I'm high, on a clean-windshield, and a full tank." I find cars generally more of an annoyance than a convenience.

I enjoy the faux parking attendants and have come across them in a few countries, mostly in Spain and Sicily. They and I know they’re just out to get a few Euros, but for a Euro they are out there in the lot and possible preventing some break ins. Well, at least until they head to the bar.

@James, YES, we encountered that for the first time in Portugal. Very entrepreneurial!

@Chris, we've always rented manuals including when we've rented the Peugeot. On this recent trip, when we picked up they asked if we would like a automatic which we've gladly accepted. We both can drive a manual, its just in Europe, we prefer not to. We are not "car people" and we don't really care what we drive. While we are quite comfortable driving a bigger car or something with manual transmission at home here in the U.S, in unfamiliar areas where we'll need to park or drive on narrow roads, we prefer almost the smallest car possible, and my husband happens to be tall.

We've probably had a car for about 1/2 to 2/3 of our European trips for at least part of the time. We've driven in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and Sicily. When we have a car, we typically, stay in accommodations just at the edge of town. I have to say, I always prefer to be in city centers, so that's what I give up when we have a car. I'm thinking about Bilbao, Luxembourg City, where we would have loved to stay more in the historic part of town but had the car. Often what we do is pick up a car when we leave a city and drop off upon arrival. We did this in Sevilla and returned when we got to Granada. I will admit it was fun driving around the pueblos blancos, but close to terrifying to drive in Grazelema, Spain in Andalusia and Briones, Spain in Rioja. And we were quite happy to not have a car in Palermo, Sicily, where we had a great time staying in city center. In San Sebastian, Spain, we parked out of the historic center and left the car in a ramp for three days, and walked to our accommodation close to the water.

I just wanted to give you a taste of what we've encountered on our adventures with a car in Europe. All, we would do again, but something to consider.

I'm casting my mind back through the thread and putting together 2 plus 2 (probably getting 5!!)

I think this is your first trip to Italy France and Spain, and I think we only had a glancing blow past ZTLs.

So, not answering your question in this post but hoping to save you some hassle and expense, can I strongly recommend you read up on the Italian ZTL. They are usually camera controlled and come with BIG penalties for every time you enter one. The Forum is littered with posts about them, often along the lines I have been home for months and now this scam is in my mailbox, or somesuch.

Also for Italy, TUTOR, how to use the Autostrada and the chatty tollbooths, what to do if a man in uniform waves a red light on a stick, and the road edge paint colour code, the National speed limits and what a working day is.

For France, study up on Priorité d Droit, French different colour code, French different National speed limits (special care with rural single carriageways), French Autoroutes, Bison Futé, special rules for the Boulevard Périphérique and how to park at lunchtime.

I have never visited Spain so no first hand advice there.

For all the countries you will be driving note that when you get to the name sign on the outskirts of a built up area you need to be slowed to the urban national limit (usually 50 kph unless posted otherwise like 30 kph) before you reach the sign. It doesn't say it is a speed limit sign but it is. There are often cameras immediately after it. You can't coast down to the limit. You need to keep the speed, unless restricted further, until the town sign with a red diagonal line at which time you resume the National speed limit for the type of road you entered. It is really serious.

It sounds like you have a good trip planned. Forewarned is forearmed.

Nigel, Thank you for these details! I have read (and recall seeing on a Rick Steve's show) that automated cameras will send you speeding tickets for going over the speed limit at all. Something I'm really going to have in mind coming from a lifetime of assuming that 5-10 mph over the speed limit is fine! While I haven't read much on the specifics of each country's rules of the road, I do recognize that there are big differences from the US...not just speed enforcement, but limited access in specific areas, costs to be on certain roads at certain times, small town police stopping and fining you and pocketing the fine, etc. I'll keep reading, and with any luck, I'll make it fine-free! :)

There is a website which has classified the number of automatic speed cameras in France by region. Paris is ranked only 26th with 55 speed cameras, but in terms of density Paris is the winner with 1 automatic speed camera per 1.91 km2 (0.38 square mile).

The whole list here:

https://www.radars-auto.com/actualite/statistiques/palmares-des-departements-les-plus-radarises-1129

Some countries require an international driver's permit. We get ours at AAA.

I've been stung by speed cameras in Spain. Cruise control helps—set at the speed limit. Google Maps helps with situational awareness by displaying the area's posted limit (maybe not super accurate in areas where the limit changes).

Crit'air environmental sticker is a non-issue if you are leasing a French-reg car. You can order it here, you will never be able to receive the actual sticker since it will be sent to the car's registration address, but the "facsimile" you get with the invoice allows you to drive.
Germany will be trickier.

We actually have no plans to visit Germany, so we should be okay there. We may find ourselves passing through on our way from the alps to the Alsace region, but we'll look into it when the time comes. Thank you!

One thing to check:
where we live, a lot of people can't get their cars into their garages. We have friends who bought a small SUV and couldn't get it down their ramp. It now sits outside. We own one underground parking space that can take an SUV if you are an extremely skilled. We've never parked anything larger than a Renault Clio. We also have a garage on a horrible angle; only the smallest cars can enter.
A 2008 would be impossible. So check your rental parking spaces.
You might want the HP of a 2008 for the auto-routes, but there's nothing wrong with driving more slowly in the right lane in a 208.