High level budget and assumptions of travel post-60 age.

“Assuming we remain reasonably healthy..”

That’s the big unknown, isn’t it?
I had a Great Aunt and Uncle I revered who traveled widely and frequently until mobility issues caught up with them.
“ Travel now—while you can,” I recall them advising my folks over dinner during one of their visits. “ Because the day will come when those cobblestone streets and
stairs just get to be too much of a challenge.”
And, sadly, the day came when my Great Uncle passed on. My Aunt lost the desire to travel after that.
Look to both your sets of parents’ health histories.
With so much of our health being genetically determined— that will likely inform you of the health issues in your future.

I'm afraid to look back at how much I've spent since retirement! I didn't start back with European travel until I'd been retired for 2 years as I had parent care responsibilities. When those ended I started making up for lost time and at 75 am apparently STILL making up for lost time, lol.

In that time I've done 12 Rick Steves tours varying from the 1 week Best of Paris to the 21 day Best of Europe plus 13 Road Scholar tours and now, literally, am packing for my 3rd Seymour Travels tour. A number of those tours were back to back so not all individual trips. I usually add time before and/or after.

I am figuring I have 2-3 more years before I "age out" of Mark's active tours and then can go back to the Road Scholar tours. I'd not count 75 as being done with your travel! I'm "training" to get down on my hands and knees to crawl into chambered cairns when I return to Orkney next year at 75 11/12.

No significant challenges except I know I've passed the point where I want to do anything that is either really hard physically or anything that I need to worry about eating the food/water. I'm not highly motivated to travel to some of the areas that are tougher so I don't feel I've missed anything for myself.

I do encourage people to do the hard trips early on and save seeing the US/Canada until later!

Well, we are a little ahead of you at 75 and 73. We are still in pretty good shape but we have upped our travel game. We’ve done many RS tours but at some point we made a reassessment: 1) our kids are grown, doing reasonably well and don’t need our support, 2) financially we are in a good place, better than we anticipated, as we find that our everyday expenses actually dropped considerably since retirement, 3) we downsized to a new 55+ community so a new house with much less maintenance (and we sold at a good price). So, we are about to leave on our third Tauck tour with another booked for 2025. They are active, maybe a hair less than RS. They provide airport transportation, manage your luggage, stay at very nice hotels (4 to 5 star) and the food is several notches above what we experienced with RS. So far the guides have been a mixed bag, none as good as we experienced with RS and the tours have not been as immersive in culture and history. The cost of these tours is considerably more than RS. So, we will probably stick with them and other “high touch” companies unless our health becomes an issue or the money situation takes a turn. Wish RSE had tours with nicer accommodations and better food, folks to porter bags, and those quality guides we came to love. We’d pay the price. Long way of saying we don’t budget. Figure if we don’t spend the money to travel comfortably our kids will!

Allan,
Background: We are 80 and 81 and still plan on travels. Hubby spent 7 years in France as a child post WWII, with rationing and material remnants of the battles in the fields near his home. He traveled back and forth from US to France a handful of times when a ship was the only way to go (even went on the Queen Mary in the early 60's before his time in the US Army).

My first foray was 1974. We ordered a VW beetle and went to Europe for 4 months, driving around 9 countries over 3 months. (Had to ship the car back to Calif...a month long journey for the car and we needed it when our trip was over.) We spent about 3 weeks total at his grandmother's in Marseilles, taking some day trips using her Citroen, but mostly enjoying her cooking and hospitality and using public transportation and our feet to get around the city. Not counting the cost of airfare (charter, about $500 apiece RT) and the VW, we spent $3000.00 total for the whole 4 months. We slept in the car sometimes, stayed at some VERY cheap hotels, and counted all our pennies, changing currencies when we changed countries. At the end of the trip we had spent every penny we brought with us in Travelers Checks. Our bible was Arthur Frommer's "Europe on Five and Ten Dollars A Day". It worked out well for us, at 30 and 31, with young knees and eyes that didn't need readers.

Didn't get to return until 1988, with our then 10 and 8 year olds. Family helped with expenses and we had 3-4 weeks, sometimes staying with friends. It was another 10 years until the next trip, France and Italy with the kids. We had the money for a 3 week trip with judicious expenditures, and some stays with relatives. So, unlike many on the forum, our travels when the kids were young were few and far between. After retirement we travel more, but by no means do we manage a trip to Europe even every year. Lucky those who can go more often!

Since about the time we turned 60 and 61, we manage a foreign trip every 2-3 years...Ireland, Czechia, Chile, China, Kenya, Turkey France, Egypt, Spain & Portugal, usually on our own and fairly inexpensively, judging by what I find are the costs of tours (of most price pointst). We still watch our expenses, preferring to have more time less expensively than less time with a bit more luxury.

Last year we did splurge, celebrating a big anniversary and birthday by treating our kids and grandkids to a Dordogne trip, buying premium economy air tickets for everyone, and renting a terrific gite near La Roque Gageac for 10 days. We treated for everything, car rentals, train fares, etc. and it was worth every moment spent planning and every penny. This year we are at home, and probably next year too.

But being in our 80's will not deter us from more trips at some point. All 4 of our knees are titanium, we are in generally good health, and although we may not necessarily rent a car next time, we expect to move around fairly easily. (Sicily, Malta, Scotland, return to Vienna, northwest Spain/Basque country, Botswana, Costa Rica and New Zealand). I guess I had better plan on hitting my ninetieth birthday in decent shape! (And watch my pennies between trips!)

In our 50’s it seemed like all we worried about was how much time could we be away from work.
Retired now and a bit older…
At 69 and 63 we are traveling three international and a few domestic (USA) trips a year on our own (sometimes with our adult children).

“Has anyone ever thought back on what they've spent on post-60 travel? “
We spend about 10-15% more on creature comforts but not a huge difference. My adult children would tell you I’m frugal though. The flexibility with travel dates helps to defer some costs.

“What have been your most significant challenges?”
- I am slowly losing my sight due to a medical condition and want to get as much in as I can (I no longer have enough vision to drive but traveling just fine. Don’t ask me to read the departure board at the airport though). None of us know how much time/ trips we have so we are just going for it.
Here are some changes we’ve made in the past five years:
- We don’t bounce back as fast with jet lag/time change/sleep (up to 9 hrs difference) so our first day is “walking and wine” and we don’t plan anything when we return for a few days.
- We mostly stay in hotels now rather than apartments (my husband became very ill in Toulouse with food poisoning and the hotel staff helped me get help which was priceless).
- We buy an annual travel medical/transportation policy through Alliance.
- We got the Chase Sapphire Reserve card for cancellation insurance and airport lounges.
- I travel with a “mini pharmacy/medical” kit.
- We now take pre- arrange taxi’s to the airport on the return.
- For the first time my husband has convinced me to upgrade our class of service on a flight. I am struggling with justifying the expense. We’ll see but I’m afraid there’s no going back.
- I’m the planner but now also we divide “duties”. My husband is now responsible for electricity (charging), navigation, and money. I’m the rest.

We’ve been taking an annual trip to Europe almost every year from the mid 90s to 2014 when we retired. Since that milestone, when we were mid 60s, we’ve definitely picked up the pace and take 2 trips per year if the right situation comes up. We are leaving next weekend for our second trip of 2024 and just booked a flight today for 2025.

We don’t spend nearly the amount you’ve budgeted. We watch for airfare or frequent flier mile sales like we booked today, just $400 cash total for RT for 2. We keep or churn airline credit cards to use miles when flight prices are uncomfortably high. We fly economy but can choose our seats and check bags because of our pretty useful airline credit cards (3). We don’t count € for food as we have a pretty robust amount we spend for food at home. One age related change we’ve made it to take taxis more often although we didn’t use any during our earlier summer month long trip. Also we haven’t driven as much in Europe as we’ve gotten older. We try to choose locations that have decent bus and train possibilities.

We haven’t taken an organized tour yet but may someday when we stop enjoying the planning process as much as we do. We even took a cruise once, in 2020 to NZ and AU and wouldn’t be opposed to taking another strategic cruise. Enjoy your planning and travel if it gives you joy.

2 trips per year x an average of $12,000/trip = $360,000 over 15 years.

Is that $12,000 estimated using your current travel habits and today's prices? If so, upward adjustments to accommodate annual increases (inflation) will be needed. Or you might adjust the length of your trips downward from to trip to trip, or order your visits starting with less expensive places and move on to pricier places as the years tick by.

General health, of course... but avoiding ACCIDENTS that impair your mobility and agility should be a big concern as recovery time gets longer and longer with every year. At some point you give up skiing and rollerblading, biking in areas with heavy traffic, and definitely motorcycles... right?

My husband & I had the same assumption for how long we would travel overseas. I think that’s generally a reasonable guess - traveling active through 75.

I know at some age, I will need to slow down my normal pace that I like when traveling solo. I have become a little pickier when choosing B&B’s or small hotels and selecting rooms with a balcony more often than in earlier years. But it’s nice to relax for 30-60 minutes now during the day and sometimes just relax there in the evening, so a nicer room is appreciated. Traveling independently is still very much a bargain compared to other options, and it’s always so fulfilling, too. As I get older, I anticipate it may become more about returning to favorite locations for ease and just adding a couple of new cities to the trip.

For 2025, I have planned a return to Spain late winter, and I am throwing around the idea of 3 weeks in Greece late Spring. And my 2nd adult daughter wants to move up our first Mother/Daughter European trip to 2025 in Fall - thinking Italy which sounds great to me!

The only other criteria besides what you mentioned is that I plan around my volunteer commitments….or give them a few months notice.

It is definitely money and health. You know your monetary situation. Health is the great unknown. All my friends who are older than me constantly urge me to "travel now".....

God topic of conversation, but hard to put a finger on.

I love to travel too much to spend $12000 on a trip and I havent had to very often.

I have had to significant changes over the years. First, I got Western Europe out of my system and started going East. Besides finding the East more interesting than the West, the cost of tourism went down by a third. In your case that wold be $8k vs $12K. Or, sometimes, the quality of the traveling increased a thrid by spending the same as I would in the West but getting a lot more for it.

But the thing that made the biggest difference in my life as well as in tourism was a huge gamble I made 15 years ago when I putchased a small but cheap flat in Europe. With that tourism became like a local and costs went down more and enjoyment went up more. "Like a local" meant not only living sort of like a local, but doing holidays sort of like a local. From the base a quick trip here and three nights there became more the norm.

Now, retired, the flat has opened a lot more options.

OP is speaking about the money factor of his travels and the replies are skewed to health with little about costs. OP thanks for stating your costs. Money buys most anything. But many do not have limitless assets to up their travel comfort and needs as they age. OP is almost twice my trip cost.
Mostly due to no fanciness about my travel. Don’t need it.
Maybe we can reroute the conversation to the OPs cost concerns.
One thing to consider for most here is that your assets probably go up by at least the same amount you spend a year on travel. So each year you wind up at least even with the past year and having had your vacations too.
OP should think upon having his 24k a year expand to a level he is comfortable with. Once you have aging needs requiring comforts a a cost, you can extrapolate to the next level.
What’s the price point you can tolerate?

Alan, our trips (2adults late 60’s) are more in line with your budget. I could say they average around $15,000. I use an app to try and track all our spending. Here is an approximate cost for our last few trips:

Sicily - 2 weeks April 2022 $8,000
Spain - 3 weeks October 2022 $10,500
Paris/London - 3 weeks April 2023 - $10,800
14 night Norway cruise/ Netherlands - 3 weeks May 2024 - $17,960 (Norway not worth the expense)
Egypt/Jordan/Israel - 3 weeks March 2023 - $22,000 per couple (Private tour for 6 adults)

We are currently on an 8 week trip to Florence, Bologna, Croatia, Spain, and Portugal. So far we have spent or committed (hotels, tour guides, train, private driver, etc) a little over $17,000. We are in Madrid now, going to Galicia for a week, then Portugal for 2 weeks. We shall see how much more we spend.

Disclaimer, a month was spent in Croatia at our apartment. But we still had expenses such as day trips, rental car, dinners with family, etc.

These trips include premium economy airfare, nice hotels usually 4 stars, taxis to and from airport or train station, also taxis when tired, 1st class train tickets, private guided tours (when we travel with another couple, our usual travel buddies), rental car occasionally, and nice restaurants nothing too fancy. I deducted any money spent on souvenirs.

As you can see, some places are just more expensive or you need a guide. We just put a deposit down for a 3 week trip to Japan for 4 adults, no groups. The base tour without airfare or extras is $21,000 per couple. But, this is my top bucket list place, hence the splurge. Could we go cheaper, sure, but we don’t want to.

As you state, we are older and like our creature comforts, especially hotels where we can ask for more towels, and extra pillow, tickets to shows, and taxis.

We are also fortunate that our girls are married, have nice jobs, and have homes. They don’t need our money thank goodness. Could circumstances change and they need our help, yes, but we are forever optimistic. If that occurs, we will deal with it then. We saved all our working years for retirement travel and we are taking advantage of our reasonably good health and are on the go.

Good luck in your retirement and enjoy every trip you take, no matter the costs.

I retired at 62 years and six months, that was 14 years ago.
Since then we have traveled overseas averaging twice a year, except for 2020 due to COVID.
Your bullet points are fairly accurate, but we still have overseas travel plans for 2025 and the future.

We used to do most of out trips on our own, booking lodging, day tours, transportation, etc. Also, we did some ocean and river cruises, usually combing a cruise with some land touring.

Now we generally take group tours since the tour company takes care of everything, including lodgings, touring, transportation and most meals. We like Gate 1 Travel and have one tour booked with them for next year.

We discovered in 2019 that age was beginning to be a constraint when we did high altitude areas like Cuzco and Machu Picchu. We managed it fairly well for our ages, but at 71 climbing around those hills at Machu Picchu for most of a day, pretty much wiped me out.
The message, do places like that before 70.

We did one very long trip, 7 1/2 weeks that involved Australia, New Zealnad and a transpacific cruise for 22 days from Sydney to Seattle. That was in 2018. Most of our trips these days run about 2 to 1/2 weeks.

Allan for your budgeting figures above are you talking about Canadian $ or US $?

Also I guess you could say that we have doubled our small amount of spending since retiring with 2 trips per year now for the past 10 years.

treemoss2 i sort of read it a bit broader. But okay. The key is reconsider the style and prupose of travel. As you get older you slow down a bit, maybe you can take longer trips, those two things bring costs way down. Even before I made the big move my trips had gone down by easily a third because at this age I am more content to live in a place as opposed to trying to see everything. More relax and less race.

Oh, I am older than the OP but younger than a lot of you guys.

As for health, buy a good policy. They dont cost much when you are 60-something, then dont worry too much. Healthcare in most of Europe is at least acceptable and there are policies that will get you home for the big stuff. So, figure something less than $1000 each for coverage for a few trips a year. Compared to the $12K its not much.

Is that $12,000 estimated using your current travel habits and today's
prices? If so, upward adjustments to accommodate annual increases
(inflation) will be needed.

I've added for inflation, and also in hopes that I can relax my tight fists and actually feel OK about spending a bit more for experiences. For example €500 in 3 weeks for a hot air balloon ride over the Dordogne Valley is booked. 10 years ago I would have dismissed it as a ridiculous price even though when I think about it, it's not that much when I look at the big picture.

I don't closely track expenses or I'd make myself miserable. I go into trips with a mindset of what I think is reasonable for expenses such as hotels and flights and try not to get upset when I need to spend more. For example everything so far about our river cruise next Spring is more than I'm happy about including the pre and post hotels in Amsterdam and Basel. But the "happy wife, happy life" factor is important to consider. This trip likely will hit $12,000 (Canadian), in comparison, our most expensive trip to to date was about $10,000 for an RS tour in 2019. In 2023 our 2 week trip to Sorrento came in at about $7000, and I have no complaints about that one.

Allan, one thing to keep in mind. The faster you travel (the more moving around), the more it costs. I follow several slow travel groups and youtubers who swear they can travel full time around the world for $28,000-35,000 US dollars for 2 people a year. So maybe as you get older, you can travel slower (spend one month in each place). Easier on the old bod too!
I currently have an 88 days in the Schengen + 24 days in Turkey itinerary for 2026. We are definitely moving slower (1 and 2 weeks in some places) with some faster travel as well. I’m figuring about $35,000-$40,000 for this trip all in.

€500 in 3 weeks for a hot air balloon ride over the Dordogne Valley is
booked.

That is money well spent in my book.

So is the Mohácsi Busójárás and the Kazanlak Rose Festival and spending a few days in a hotel on a river in the Albanian Alps or rafting the Tara river canyon, the deepest in Europe. All at a fraction of the cost of the balloon. Broaden your vision beyond what is in the travel magazines and experiences go up and costs go down. Your $12K is more than enough. No worry. Go and make your dreams come true.

Most expensive trip we have taken was an 11 day tour/cruise with Celebrity of Quito, Ecuador and a 7 day cruise of the Galapagos.
It was are real first class trip and the cruise ship was very special.

For less expensive place, Egypt was not expensive, nor is Peru, Chile and Argentina.
Places like Switzerland and Scandinavia are expensive.
Large cities like Paris, Berlin, Rome and London are expensive to smaller cities and towns.

Okay, for specifics on expenses as requested. I keep an Excel spreadsheet of all expenses & could even provide percentages from my pie chart by category. LOL! The flights are Premium Economy seats. These were all fantastic independent travel itineraries, so it shows in the less expensive totals. I have enjoyed RS tours, also. : )

• Spain for 20 nights, February 2024. Two people = $5903.

• England & Wales for 14 nights, June 2023. Two people = $10,980.
  (This was our special 45th anniversary trip, so we splurged on
  beautiful, special lodging & activities, plus my husband played golf twice at
  premium courses.)

• Italy for 33 nights, May 2024. One person = $8216.

• Italy for 15 nights, June 2022. Two people = $8610. (This was my
  daughter’s first trip to Europe, so we stayed in more expensive
  cities.)

I would think through the activity level of the trips you want to take and prioritize trips based on that and the trips you would most wish you had taken if something happens to stop your traveling. 2 examples: I made my last trip up the Acropolis at 65 and wouldn't do that again. I do realize that there is supposedly an elevator for those with mobility issues. My husband and I took a group tour to New Zealand and Australia this past Jan/Feb to celebrate our 70th birthdays. It was wonderful, but very busy and involved 15 different airports, so I don't think we would be up for that activity level much longer. I realize that your mobility and daily exercise levels may vary from mine.

Strangely, we are finding travel a bit less expensive now that we are in our early 70's. We don't take tours so that isn't part of our expense. What we have changed:

**We don't eat as much now! We often split one appetizer and one main between us.

**We don't rent cars anymore and instead use public transport, which is often at a reduced price for seniors.

**No more complicated trips involving multiple countries and transport changes. We are much less ambitious, and tend to stay in one or two locations with small day trips from there on public transport.

**Probably the biggest savings is that we tend to avoid large, tourist oriented cities. We no longer enjoy the traffic and crowds. Staying in smaller cities greatly reduces our lodging and restaurant costs. And since we focus mostly on northern Europe, it's pretty easy with their transport system to do larger cities as day trips.

What have been your most significant challenges? I assume money and health are the most restrictive.

Loved Linda's answer! And yes, I agree with the OP, money & general health are probably the most restrictive, but perhaps in our case the most liberating is having the luxury to slow down & take a mid day break (thanks Jean for the reminder!) and enjoy where we happen to be rather than trying to do 'one more monument'. Excluding air fare, we spend around $5,000 per big trip to a major city, like a week in Berlin or Rome, which may have been beaten out of us by December in Rome, just too jammed. Looking forward to smaller cities...

but perhaps in our case the most liberating is having the luxury to slow down & take a mid day break (thanks Jean for the reminder!) and enjoy where we happen to be rather than trying to do 'one more monument'.

No secret where I like to travel ... EAST. How to get to $12.000? The only way is flying business class. And thats great if thats what will add to the experience. Otherwise, for two, $3000 tops for tickets. Now you have $9000. 15 nights in a 4 star hotel and you are down to $6000. A little less than $150 a day for 4/5 star food and play and you are down to $4000. Transportation within Europe and you are down to $3500 = 7 balloon rides or upgrades to the Economy flights to Business Class.

If you are the type that wants to slow down a bit and spend more time in Europe, then take a few whirlwind trips hitting as many different places as you can. Maybe you will fall in love with one. Then buy a flat. Now half your hotel cost is gone, the other half of the hotels costs is "local" travel around the region or larger is you pick a good hub. Renting it when you are not there pays for the airplane tickets 2 to 4 times a year. So your $12000 is now $10.500 for other things. Oh, when you are too old to travel, sell the flat and recoop the money plus the appreciation. Maybe not make out quite as well as a stock investment, but even adding that to the expense you are wll ahead of spending $12.000 a year. I mention this as anyone that can afford $24.000 a year in travel can probably afford to leverage that for this sort of thing.

Allan - a good topic for slightly younger folks to ponder as well. My financial person certainly asks the budgeting questions and plugs them into our retirement model. I've enjoyed the James Conole youtube videos on retirement planning & spending expectations. I also hope to have a longish retirement period to spend much more time and money traveling. Your current costs (~$9,000/trip USD) seem "close enough" to what we spend - on average - but we definitely vary widely depending upon destination and duration. My push-pull sort of wrinkle is that as I approach retirement, our existing travel model seems like it will wildly change. The two "real" trips a year will transform into significantly more and longer trips - both US and abroad - and also likely be greatly focused in the 57-70 years. Hard to forecast too much further out (70+) as family history starts to go head-to-head with medical marvels as well as good vs bad luck. So, my guess is the 70+ era will gradually be much "lighter" travel but that, to me, means likely much more expensive travel due to add ons like sticking to business/first class flights, more on-the-ground costs (like better hotels, local transportation costs), and healthcare/insurance extras. Also, we currently do a lot of RV US travel, but I see that tapering post-70, and it will likely be swapped out for something different (not sure what).

So, IOW, you've got me thinking and it looks like I need to start noodling through that ASAP :D Thanks!

Regarding going Business Class, we don't pay for that. We do get upgraded to Economy plus frequently.
We would rather spend our money on the actual touring.

The same with staying in five star hotels. We only do that in 3rd World countries. We prefer BnBs.

How to get to $12.000? The only way is flying business class. And
thats great if thats what will add to the experience.

Out of curiosity, business class to London from YYC next May is $3200pp. Standard is currently on sale for $800 but usually $1200. So you're correct, I could do it but I won't. My mentality is if I had a million dollars to spend on travel would I take one trip for a million dollars or 10 trips for $100,000? My vote is 10 trips or as Geovagriffith stated, the preference is to pay for the experiences. I'd rather suffer with my knees at my chin for 8 hours if it gives me more quality on the ground.

I leave on a 3 week trip to Portugal and France in 6 days and so far I've spent about $6100 on flights, accommodation, balloon rides, etc. That doesn't include daily expenses like food and admission tickets, but we'll still be well under $10,000 for this trip. Add my 2 weeks in Florida last March and I'll be under $15,000 for two trips for the year. My River cruise next Spring which includes a few days in Amsterdam and then a few days after in Basel and Colmar is already coming in at $15,000 plus daily expenses. It appears my annual spending will be all over the map from year to year, but that high level number I came up with gives me comfort that we'll be OK. We've got our eye on a potential double safari in the future, one to the Savannah, and while we're in the neighbourhood, maybe we'll do a Gorilla Walk. I'm afraid to actually look at the hard numbers. I'll be happier just closing my eyes and handing over my credit card.

Allan, I read you are considering visiting the mountain gorillas. Top highlight in all my travels. Don’t worry about the money, yes, it’s expensive. Worth every penny! GO!

I am in my early 70s, and my wife is in her late 60s. We have plenty of time and money, and we're still in excellent health.

The OP asked if we have thought back on what we've spent on post-60 travel, and for me, the answer is no. We have been taking one 2-week trip per year, going to one place, renting an apartment, and maybe taking a couple of day trips. The cost has usually been less than $10,000.

The OP also asked, what have been our most significant challenges. And my answer to that would be, the process of getting there and back. Flying overseas from the US to Europe involves seemingly inevitable disasters like missed connections and cancelled flights, and it is exhausting just getting there or getting back. Being there is great, but getting there is horrible.

We know time will eventually run out on us, and we love to go to Europe, so we are planning to take two trips per year and make them longer- 3 weeks or a month instead of 2 weeks. On our trips we stay in one place, we have a list of things we might want to do, but we have no schedule.

Our last trip was to Barcelona for 2 weeks, and my number one experience was La Sagrada Familia, but my number two experience was just sitting on a bench watching people walk by and admiring the surrounding buildings. Really, my favorite thing about travel is not the famous tourist hot spots, but just being there. That's the best thing for me about post-60 travel: the discovery that you don't need to spend so much energy. Just being there is the best thing. It makes me feel for those younger people who don't have much time or money and have to squeeze everything in. But in the other hand, they do have loads of energy, so I'm sure they have lots of fun.

For anyone interested in a great safari in Africa, I strongly recommend Good Earth Tours. It is a Tanzania business, but has safaris in other countries as well.

I researched for safaris including US travel companies and found their safaris very expensive. Our safari was in Kenya and Tanzania in early August 2022. We were there for the Great Migration, which happens about that time of the year when thousands of wildebeests migrate from Tanzania to northern Kenya. We caught it perfectly and it was special.

My wife, son and his partner and I were in a large vehicle with a driver/guide (we had one for each country). It negotiated the savannah as well as roads. It had a pop up roof so we could stand up and take photos. Many times the animals were almost close enough to touch, but no we wanted to live.

Cost was about $4500 pp for 12 days. Our lodgings were top notch and all meals were included except on the first and last day when we entered at Nairobi and out of Arusha.

Some of the US firms wanted twice or three times the price.
Since then, I have found a safari in East Africa with Gate 1 Travel that was closer to our Good Earth safari.
Airfare was separate.

Flying overseas from the US to Europe involves seemingly inevitable
disasters like missed connections and cancelled flights, and it is
exhausting just getting there or getting back. Being there is great,
but getting there is horrible.

I'm not a fan of overnight flights as I don't sleep well, but I'm willing to put up with it to get there. I'm lucky that there are 10 European cities I can get to via direct flights from YYC, so that helps with the risk of missed connections.

I am taking notice on this and previous threads though with comments that as you get older, flying gets more uncomfortable as ailments can make things worse.

Some years back I had back problems and the thought of economy was more than I could stand so I bought a Business Class seat to Europe. It was good, except that I am one of those asile wanderers. I do it the whole trip. The problem with Business class was the asile wasnt long enough and there was no place to go, so I would wander up through the cheap seats champaign glass in hand ... that solved the problem and gave me to opportunity to check on my better half from time to time (flying Economy Light she ended up in the last row).

But even at my advanced Social Security qualifying age, I handle 8 hours in Economy just fine. Its 8 hours out of several weeks of travel and the savings buys a lot of fun once there. Still, for those that must have Business Class, I get it. The whole idea of a holiday is doing those things that bring you enjoyment. No one can judget that.

Oh, I've been there on two other occassions. Once i had a meeting in Budapest a few hours after arrival so when KLM sent me an email with an opportunity to bid on an upgrade, I did. I think I paid about $300 for the AUS to AMS leg. And once on Czech Airlines my wife became violently ill on the way over; on the way back they gave us a free upgrade. I assume it had something to do with what happened on the way over, but they never said as much.

I try not to get jealous of east coast travelers who go to Europe. If you want to get there from the west coast and just can't stand economy anymore, it's at least $2500/pp just for airfare. So we were in $5k just to get there from the most southern point in the continental US. And it's a long flight; which is physically taxing. So, I agree that it's about $12,000.+ per trip for us. Our spring trip was a bit higher. The cost of living is so high for us that we can't swing twice a year to Europe, plus I just don't want to fly over twice a year. So we go to Hawaii or somewhere on the mainland when we do a second trip for the year. Far less costly. I think the actual flight lengths is what will prohibit us later in life. But, I think travel is a great way to spend our money!

I loved Linda's answer...Travel like Linda!

”I am in my early 70s, and my wife is in her late 60s. We have plenty of time and money, and we're still in excellent health.”

I don’t want to turn this into a sad post because we were able to take several European trips together. But, I’ll just comment that my husband was in excellent health & younger than that age when he was suddenly gone. If there’s one special trip experience that would create extra significance to your memories later on, do it now. We both had thought we had plenty of time, too.

Ahhh yes Jean, thank you for the reminder to take that trip while you're able to enjoy it together. During a not-fun painful medical procedure a few years ago, I found myself planning a trip to my ancestral homeland of Norway while lying in an MRI machine. We left a month later, it was fabulous!

I'm almost 73 and haven't made very many changes in my approach to travel. I'm happy with simple, clean hotels as long as they have a/c in the summer, Wi-Fi and reliable plumbing. However, for short stays I find myself considering a slightly more expensive place with an elevator rather than a 3- or 4-story hotel where I might have to drag my non-carry-on bag up and down stairs twice within a short time. I'm also leery of the too-often-found European staircases without handrails, so I try to check out photos of hotel staircases.

Recognizing that I don't know how many more years I'll have for active travel, I'm inclined to suck it up and pay more than I'm happy with to see high-cost areas now; I just go for the least expensive acceptable lodging. When I was younger I was more inclined to cut costly places out of my itinerary.

Really, my biggest annoyance with travel later in life is the challenge of scheduling the recommended medical check-ups around my lengthy trips. I carefully arranged two appointments with my primary-care physician (who books up many months in advance) before departing on my current trip, only to receive a phone call six weeks later saying she will not be available on either of those dates. It's not the first time that has happened.

Some of you have mentioned booking business class tickets instead of economy. I've thought about it, and although it would not be a financial strain for me, when I consider that I would be spending maybe an extra $2,000 per person for maybe an 8 hour plane flight, no matter how much money I have, I can't justify spending an extra $250 per hour each just to sit in a bigger seat and drink Champagne or whatever they serve you. We are not large people, and we can fit in the economy seats pretty well. $250 bucks per hour extra, each? That's $500 per hour for the two of us.

Am I missing anything?

In fact, I am thinking, if I go economy instead of business class, saving maybe $4,000 between the two of us, what is an alternative way to splurge with that money? Could we hire a private driver to drive us all over Spain?

Marty--Those are my same thoughts. We do not purchase business class tickets, but out for main cabin or comfort plus if that is reasonable.

I am under 60 and we are not retired, so can't really comment on a lot of the stuff here. I will say that my mother was a terrible traveler, but was the ideal client for Tauck Tours. She loved the tours she took with them! Yes they were expensive, but they made her happy and she was willing to pay for what they offered. After she passed and we sifted through boxes upon boxes of photos, seeing some from her trips that we had not seen before was so nice. The smiles she had on her face said it all. She was just giddy on those tours, and she met a few people that she was friends with until she passed. You can't put a price on that.

I go every year , have been doing that since taking the early retirement in 2008. Prior to that as a couple, we went every other year.

Until 65 in 2015 I kept the option of staying in a hostel dorm room as an option. That was all pre-pandemic. Now, it's different since my hostel no longer exists. I go Basic Economy cramped at times in that seat, sometimes, worse than others. Some of the meals served in Basic Economy are now pretty bad, far more unsatisfactory but I won't change the price expenditure. You just put up with the lousy meal, put up with the 11 hour overnight night but I am there after that.

In my mid-70s now I can still basically do what I did ten years earlier regarding the rigors of traveling, it depends mentally if I want to tolerate still the inconveniences of certain details on a given trip, those taxing and unnerving moments, etc.

Bottom line: you learn or should learn the positives/negatives re: traveling styles, options, spending habits, doable vs undoable.

I focus now on more French language when I'm there, using public transport , as always, I don't think of wasted travel expenses, which most likely I am sure of being guilty too. There are definite limits on travel expenses which I impose on myself, and stick to them, ie, no Business Class air fare, etc. 4 star hotels, (except for a few exceptions) , ride sharing options, etc.

Another trip of 11 weeks for next summer is being planned too based on experiences of this trip and that 0f 2023, ie what to expect and do, or not to do.

”I am in my early 70s, and my wife is in her late 60s. We have plenty of time and money, and we're still in excellent health.”

"I don’t want to turn this into a sad post because we were able to take several European trips together. But, I’ll just comment that my husband was in excellent health & younger than that age when he was suddenly gone. If there’s one special trip experience that would create extra significance to your memories later on, do it now. We both had thought we had plenty of time, too."

Jean's comment resonates so strongly with me right now. I'm facing my 50th high school anniversary in several weeks and many of us are still reeling at the number of classmates who have already passed away - at least 16%. Worse, my very first friend made in MI after my PA childhood died several years ago and I wasn't even aware of it. A coworker/dating friend from my very first "real" job is gone now as well as 1/2 of the people my age that lived on my block. One friend from my street died 2 months ago after retiring as a Director of Operations at one of the largest companies. Worse I discovered a favorite dynamic teacher was killed in a robbery 10 years after graduation. I'm glad I was able to obtain a comfortable early retirement and pursued some dreams but plenty never get the opportunity. We've all got to face the sobering thought that "time enough" is not guaranteed.

I am with Fred and Marty. If you are flying business class you are not living like a local.
Sitting in my economy seat I can look at it as a privation to endure as the human cost of travel. At least I am not on a sailing ship before the age of steam. Those who fly business not on business have an entire different state of mind that I am sure is reflected in the other parts of their travel.

I am with Fred and Marty. If you are flying business class you are not
living like a local.

Treemoss2, so Europeans dont fly business class? Why? I know plenty of Europeans that fly business; a lot of them to do business even. Of course you are not living like a local, because you are not a local, but you arent in that one instance of the flight living any differently than a very real segment of the world's population; maybe just not your segment of the world's population. Okay, sorry if it sounds a bit hard. Not meant to be. Part of the revelation of travel is understanding that there are all sorts of people from all over the world; many better off than me, many worse off than me. I suspect that the individual that owns this house, a Budapest local, flies business class .... maybe even for business https://cf.bstatic.com/xdata/images/hotel/max1024x768/101093683.jpg?k=28007d4762251f1a12e4e9fce4539705f29b8b010c66349d52ce2b3c1b3c626b&o=&hp=1

But as an extension of your argument, I suspect that in the country where i live that the majority of the citizens have never been on a plane. So, the mere act of flying, any class, means you arent living like a local.

Wow!! Amazing what you can find:

AirPlus found that European companies booked 19 per cent more flights
in 2023 than in 2022, with overall spending on air travel reaching 76
per cent of 2019 levels. The country with the highest rate of recovery
was Switzerland where corporates spent 88 per cent of their 2019
budget on flights.

https://www.businesstravelnewseurope.com/Payment-Expense/European-corporates-increase-spending-on-flights

Business travellers are now flying in premium cabins more often than
they did pre-Covid with 11.1 per cent of bookings through AirPlus
being for business class. This was up from 10.7 per cent in 2022 and
8.8 per cent in 2019.

Twice in my flying life since 1971 I experienced Business Class, either internationally or domestically. Neither time did I pay for, which in and of itself is out of the question. Both times Lufthansa just merely upgraded me to Business Class at check-in, very whimsical.

Both times going over from SFO to Frankfurt, the first time was in 1989. I didn't know then what it meant when told of that change from rock bottom Economy to Business Class.

You notice the obvious change in the level of luxury and I liked it. Still, no paying extra for that additional luxury offered in Business Class or Premium Economy.

Good grief. I know plenty of Europeans who fly business occasionally or frequently. And assuming that business flyers have different travel styles once they hit the ground, is just that, an assumption. But an incorrect assumption. Plenty of regulars on this Forum fly business for various reasons. And plenty of them are then crawling on their hands and knees into prehistoric burial chambers or hiking around the mountains. If they can, why not?

In an attempt to get this thread back on the rails and away from a debate about not living like a local if you fly business class...

I don’t want to turn this into a sad post because we were able to take
several European trips together. But, I’ll just comment that my
husband was in excellent health & younger than that age when he was
suddenly gone. If there’s one special trip experience that would
create extra significance to your memories later on, do it now. We
both had thought we had plenty of time, too.

If my wife were to pass before me, I'd very likely continue to travel solo. She's not so sure she would if something were to happen to me. She credits me for being braver than her and willing to march down an unknown street when the map says to go a different way. She wouldn't be willing to drive in a foreign place and may not be willing to take public transit, and would restrict herself to shiny higher end hotels and taxis. So when I consider this, it's probably important that I pay attention to her bucket list because she may not do hers without me.

Sorry Allan..........

Has anyone ever thought back on what they've spent on post-60 travel? What have been your most significant challenges?

For the first five years or so, it was the health of elderly parents that limited us. Now our health is a more significant factor.

We never looked at the money issues on a long term basis, just an annual assessment on where we wanted to go, and what we wanted to spend in the upcoming year. A professional financial planner was critical in determining what was reasonable. A big picture number like 360,000 would have crippled our thinking.

This interesting conversation is relevent to us. We've been traveling to Europe and across the US together since a high school trip where we met in 1966. Our last trip was 14 days last December to Austria and Slovenia with a local college choir to sing at Christmas markets and churches. We did 5 concerts in Vienna, Salzburg and Ljubljana. We are 73 and 72,

The Austria/Slovenia trip cost a little over $4,000 altogether. Over the years we have found an almost inverse proportion to the cost of the trip to our enjoyment of the trip. For instance, we spent a week in Tuscany in December 2015. We planned the trip ourselves. In July 2016 close friends invited us to join them on a Viking River Cruise on the Rhine. The VRC cost three times what our trip to Tuscany cost, though they were the same length. We had much more fun on our independent trip to Chianti. One of the highlights of our last trip was staying in a hostel in Ljubljana that was a former prison.

We put all possible expenses on our AMEX Skymiles card and use the Skymiles to reduce the cost of airfare. For instance, we flew first class to Italy for $700.00 each.

This is a point in our life that we realize we probably won't make all the trips we'd like to take. We are budgeting our time and resources carefully, triaging our dreams. We will continue to plan and travel independently as long as possible. Foutunately we have been very frugal and are debt free, so money is not a factor. When planning our finances with our advisors, we budgeted in for travel.

So when I consider this, it's probably important that I pay attention to her bucket list because she may not do hers without me.

That's so lovely Allan, thanks for sharing that! We do a comparison of how important something is to each of us, it's a good reminder.

I am taking notice on this and previous threads though with comments
that as you get older, flying gets more uncomfortable as ailments can
make things worse.

Well, Allan it is something to keep in mind. When I was a Road Warrior 15 years ago, I thought nothing of flying around the world & hitting the office the day I got back. Now I have a chronic pain condition. If flying in economy class, I would arrive in such pain it took a week or more with serious meds & visits to PT & chiropractor to recover, so it's moving into the necessity area for me, versus spending that time unable to function or get far.

If I fly Business class, it’s not 8 hours, it's usually 11-12 & I can SLEEP flat in a bed with my own pillow for up to 5 hours, couldn't care less about alcohol or food, it's all about the bed!! HA.

I’m sitting here laughing out loud at the concept that “locals don’t flybusiness class”. There are lots of Europeans, sitting in business class cabins all over the world

And for those of you as you age , you are looking at this option may I make a suggestion. It’s one I do it quite often. I will find a cheap business class flight from places like New York (they have a lot more of them than Atlanta). I either use my miles or find a cheap flight to New York and connect to that flight to Europe. If you do, you have to allow a lot of extra time on your unprotected connection. But the savings can be significant.

I find the discussion interesting because I’m about three years away from retirement. And we have very different views on travel so it is going to be an interesting discussion on how we do this as we retire.

For someone who is a widow or widower, a good tour group seems to be a good option for travel, as opposed to trying to do it on your own.

And we have very different views on travel so it is going to be an interesting discussion on how we do this as we retire.

Carol, this is why we concluded that tours were now a better fit for us, so we don't have to argue about the logistics or itinerary.

Stan, Thanks but when I say different I mean he wants to stay home. I actually think he would HATE most tours so those will not be our first choice. (that said by 15 minutes on a bus he would probably know everyone's name and their life history, he makes friends incredibly fast! )

”For someone who is a widow or widower, a good tour group seems to be a good option for travel, as opposed to trying to do it on your own.”

I think that’s an exceptionally good option for people who are trying traveling for the first time as a widow or widower! It’s good to be kind to ourselves, so keeping the logistics simple that first trip is a great way to ease into travel. I’ll be on a tour of Greece next year, concluding it with an extra week for independent island time & possibly a swing through Paris on the way home.

But my preference is traveling independently instead of a tour, so heading back to Spain and later on to Italy next year is exciting, feels more like my normal routine, plus gives me plenty of fun on-line research time this winter - something I will be craving.

We are 66 and retired 6 years ago. Travel is a big part of our lives. Our first two years of retirement were living in Italy. We traveled 25% of the time (total of 3 months a year) and spent less than $20000 a year on travel

In 2023 we spent, $22,000 on travel

• 25 days, $9000 Scotland, Dublin, and 5 day Hadrians wall hike( $1500) used miles for transtlantic flights
• 8 nights in Hawaii$3000- took advantage of 6 nights free and free car rental to listen to a timeshare.
• total of 100+ days in our camper van on various long and short trips. Longest trip was California to Maine zig zagging across country over 68 days

In Europe, we look for nice but economical places in good locations. Only eat out once a day at most, other meals are from grocery stores, sandwiches to go, if we have an apartment on occasion we eat in to stretch our money. We also don’t spend time in big cities since lodging cost are higher. We also tend to do regional trips so we don’t spend a lot flying from one city to another.

I'm in Porto today and was thinking about this thread. I'll go into more detail in a Trip Report when I get home but Lisbon and Porto has me thinking about the physical part of travel as I get older. It feels that wherever I walk to in Porto, it's uphill both ways. I'm really glad we're doing this trip now. It makes me wonder how much I would miss doing it on 10 years. We're currently averaging about 9 miles/day, uphill, both ways.

Wherever I walk to in Porto, it's uphill both ways. I'm really glad
we're doing this trip now. It makes me wonder how much I would miss
doing it on 10 years. We're currently averaging about 9 miles/day,
uphill, both ways.

Another aspect of travel, great point Allan. It feels like we're still recovering from 8-10 miles of walking a day in Rome over last NY, it included a lot of stairs. Have had a few steroid & platelet rich plasma (PRP) injections since then. Can't see us ever doing that sort of trip with so many stairs again, frankly.

It feels that wherever I walk to in Porto, it's uphill both ways.

Allan I hope you're having a wonderful trip! I'm jealous.

My third great grandfather, Emmanuel Dominguez (our family now spells it Domingos) was kidnapped and held for ransom when he was a teenager in Portugal. The family couldn't raise the money so he was sold off to a merchant ship. He spent several years as a captive.

When he was 20, he was able to escape when at the port of Richmond, Virginia. He was taken in by a caring family and ended up marrying their daughter and they eventually ended up in Georgia. When Ancestry first ran my DNA, nothing from Portugal showed up but I did get a hit from the Western Bantu region of Africa. They even found a fourth cousin there.

Portugal had the most African slaves of any country in Europe. I'm thinking that Emmanuel's grandparents or even parents were African slaves.

We all have just so many summers left. Do what you can while you're able to physically and financially.

Father Time is undefeated and untied.

TreeMoss2 said, "I am with Fred and Marty. If you are flying business class you are not living like a local."

To be clear, I did not say if you fly business class you are not living like a local. What I said was I can't see the value in it. Other people might, but to me, if you calculate how much extra money you are paying on a per-hour basis, paying hundreds of dollars per hour for a slightly wider seat and a glass of champagne is not worth it to me.

Interesting conversations. Our family was enticed several years ago to go to Sweden to pick up a Volvo. Volvo pays your flight cost. We had a ball & we learned a lot. #1 the trains run on time & we did not need to drive the Volvo. Volvo people said at the pick up center that about half the buyers pick up the car, drive it on a small patch of asphalt in front of the Delivery center & turn it in. we got the bug to travel to Europe. Unfortunately my wife got Dx with cancer about 6 months later & passed about 18 months after.

After Covid & meeting a new SO we are traveling a fair amount. 1-2 times a year. And yes Business Class. There is an old saying...travel in the front of the plane or your kids will! Don't worry...he will have plenty of $$ to spend. My SO & I are presently about half done on a 5 week trip. A couple B&B's that have been wonderful, and a couple Air Bnb's that have been duds. No 12 star hotels for us! and thinking about using B&B's & smaller hotels to ease the problem of Air BnB edging out local housing. But I'm not an absolutist about it. But I look at BnB's first for the most part. I don't keep a running total but I'm guessing $15k? $7k for flights. I didn't pull the trigger on $5k flights!

This trip we decided instead of racing for a connecting flight that we would just settle in the city we land in & then catch another flight a couple days later. It's worked fairly well. The one thing we are noticing is the stairs are steep & uneven. My balance isn't the best & I have a condition w/my eyes that sometimes I can't focus. So we are both taking it easy on stairs & cobbles. Friends of ours were about 2 weeks ahead of us in Cinque Terra. She is a world class rower & he is very fit. They showed us pictures of them on some trails at CT & we noped right out on that. Lots of cafe sitting & Aperol Spritz sipping

We'll go as long as we can. I got a late start & there is much to see & do

thinking about using B&B's & smaller hotels to ease the problem of Air
BnB edging out local housing. But I'm not an absolutist about it.

This is probably a whole new topic, maybe I'll start a new post. We're of the same opinion after this trip. We used AirBnB and were very happy, but on a tour of the Alfama area in Lisbon our guide told us that 80% of the homes in Alfama are now AirBnB type. He said it's pushing out residents and local businesses, and when we were looking around he was right, there were very few shops and restaurants and we saw no grocers But now in retirement we expect to take longer trips and I have to consider the convenience of a home or apartment, one with a fridge and laundry.