On the issue of fixing one's mistakes... what to do if you give bad info. Obviously, giving bad info is something you want to avoid.

However, the person who gives bad info is frequently in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't position. My explanation: If you give bad info, you have 2 options: 1) Delete the bad info by editing your original post. This prevents readers from ever reading bad info which is important. But, to some, it makes it appear that the editor is just trying to make themselves look good and it also makes subsequent posts look bad because it may look as if the person who originated the correct info was not the originator. This makes contributors feel like they were short-changed and not given due credit. 2) Create a second post that indicates your error. This addresses the fallout from option 1, but it allows for readers to get bad information which is something we should want to avoid. It also invites retorts that causes negativity on the helpline which also needs to be avoided.

I would like to see the regulars' respectful opinions on this issue and how we should move forward. I will get to the issue of experience vs search next.

Hi Jo,

You make some very good points. I think that an important guideline for all of us to remember is to think about the quality of the information that we provide when answering questions--the best answer is usually given based on first hand experience.

Quantity doesn't impress or count for much if it's not accurate.

Webmaster position:

I want to make it clear that I am not taking sides. I find that all of our regulars genuinely want to contribute to helping people with their trips. I recognize that you are all giving up your free time to help other people which is an amazing and selfless act. My aim is to come to come to an understanding amongst all of our regular users who have issues on this topic. The goal is to continue to deliver the best info to people who come to the Helpline for the best travel information and to reduce negativity on our boards.

THERE IS NO NEED TO BE DEFENSIVE IN THIS THREAD. I hope that we call discuss these topics openly.

A couple of thoughts from me...

First, even though I haven't been to Germany yet and don't have any plans to go there for the forseeable future, I greatly appreciate Jo's information and contributions and I hope you don't leave the board.

Secondly, Google does have its uses. Sometimes I can find the answer to someone's question (such as locating a particular hotel) using Google even when I don't know the answer. I don't really see the problem with this, as I'm being helpful (or trying to at least!)

I also think opinions are an integral part of travel. If someone asks "Should I spend 3 days in Rome or Florence?" everyone who answers is expressing their opinion. Obviously those who have been to both Rome and Florence would have the most valid opinions, but someone who hasn't may have a valid contribution. I.e., "I haven't been to Pompeii but I did love Ostia Antica which is much closer to Rome and less crowded."

Of course, like many other things in the world, everything is subject to over-use and abuse, generally by a select group of people. From an internet forum point of view, there are essentially two options:

1) (Most) Anything goes. People are free to post however they like with minimal moderation. Don't like it, don't visit the board.

2) Moderator Rules. Rules for posting behavior are set out and supervised/enforced by moderators. Posts that break the rules are deleted. Repeat offenders are banned.

For me personally, the types of posts Jo references are not all that big a deal. I just skim past them and read what interests me.

Unfortunately, there is no way to make everyone respect each other, especially not on an internet forum. In the end, it is up to the individual character and judgement of the members who post there, and the attentiveness/tolerance levels of the moderators in charge.

And that's my 50 euro worth. :-)

Experience vs Research.

There is a place for both. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Research Pro: Doing research on the web has its place. Many of the questions on our boards can be answered by searching the web and providing the answer here as sometimes its just hard for our users to find that info. This tact is best used for empirical questions. i.e. Where is "X". When is "Y". It also makes sense at other times, but this is when it reaches a grey area. More later.

Experience Pro: There is nothing better than real life experience with something (note the cons below, though) because it happened... it is real.

Research Con: Using research to answer a question that arguably should be based on experience can make other users upset, whether they are regulars or new users, especially when the web can be inaccurate. The trick is knowing and defining when it is appropriate, and how we react when other people feel that it isn't appropriate.

Experience Con: Different people experience different things. Experience can largely be subjective. One's own experience can also easily become outdated.

Experience Pro/Con: Since people's experiences are different, the way people respond to a question at hand can potentially conflict. The "pro" about this is that readers get all views and opinions and can make their own conclusions.

Knowing these pros and cons, how do we as a community move forward in a way that is respectful and still ensures we are getting accurate info to our users?

Updates to the helpline:

I'm all ears for those who want to contribute ideas on how to make the functionality of the Helpline better. It is relevant to this topic. That being said, the real issues I want to be discussed are what I have referred to above.

One last comment--I don't know why the thread replies didn't show up when I wrote my previous post, but on the subject of editing.

Please do NOT remove the edit button if we cannot preview our posts. In general, I like having edit buttons because I sometimes want to add a comment I forgot to make. I would have edited the previous post but ran out of room.

When editing, I generally try to mark anything substantial with the tag ETA: edited to add. In the case of removing bad information, perhaps it would be better to simply mark the top of the post with "WRONG INFORMATION!! SEE CORRECTIONS BELOW!" Or even "Post edited to remove inaccurate information." which would make it less confusing when reading the subsequent replies.

I agree wholeheartedly with Liz (above). Editing a post to merely remove bad info can be confusing to someone reading the entire thread AFTER that bad info has been removed. But creating a second post to correct the bad info can be just as confusing. I would prefer that users who wish to substantively correct their posts make it very clear that the post has been edited, as Liz suggests.

With respect to supplying links or URLs, they can, indeed, be helpful. But I dislike the idea of using Google to answer a question simply for the sake of answering. For example, someone on the board occasionally answers questions by posting the link to Paris by Train. They have used this site and have found it helpful. I, in turn, have used this site and found it helpful; I likely wouldn't have found it using Google. So, web links can be incredibly useful. I would hate to see them banned.

I'll respond to the webmaster regarding admitting errors.

Posting links to valid, specific information is good. However it is apparent that some frequent posters don't always read the questions carefully enough and post generic links--few of which are helpful. This makes it appear that they just want to post.

Most of us here who are experienced with European travel stick to what we know and only post to questions in which we have actual knowledge...not just something we read on Google or Wikipedia. (As an example, I've never been to Turkey so I would never think of answering any question about Turkey--even if I could find it online. I'd prefer someone with experience answer it.)

It's also important to look to see how old a link is. If it's old, the information may not be valid. Posting bad info is worse than posting no info at all.

But again, it's up to the individual. I feel that there is a need for some other posters to look good. It seems that the poster wants to be "seen" as an expert. I've even seen some of my postings reused verbatim by some frequent posters when a similar question is asked at a later date. This isn't OK without giving credit.

This is why this is frustrating: As someone said to me in a PM, the thrill is gone. It's no longer fun to post. I've been here for a few years and I have less postings than one frequent poster who has been here six months. I feel that many of these person's postings aren't necessary.

As some of the "old timers" on the board drift away due to frustration, and some of these newer frequent, inexperienced posters take over, some answers given will be ineffective if not wrong. Some are even downright rude. My opinion is that will hurt the credibility of the board.

The Private Message option (PM) provides a non-embarrassing way to notify a poster that they have posted something that, in your opinion, you think is factually wrong (not just a matter of personal preference or opinion).

There's already some really important discussion points here.

I should also add that the discussion should also present solutions that are respectful (not that anything so far hasn't) and that we can all agree to.

I would ask not to take away the edit function. I am sometimes embarrassed on how bad my spelling and writing can be, and I don't always catch my errors until later.

I'm not sure I see a way forward with the initial reason for this thread, but I'll follow along to see what others say.

I'm sure the people with 1000's of posts have seen the same questions and topics over and over again, so some burnout - like Jo seems to have - is probably inevitable.

But I wouldn't like to see censorship of people's posts - for example, by discouraging use of weblinks - because some are tired of "wading through" them. After all, people post what they think will be helpful. Newbies don't necessarily know what has gone before.

Maybe there should be a separate "expert" part of the forum open only to those with over 2,000 posts!

While its an interesting idea, allow me to strike down the concept of having an Experts area based on the number of posts. That would simply encourage people to give more posts and not necessarily focus on giving quality posts.

It’s too easy to confuse travel expertise and experience with the number messages someone has posted. Personally, I have been using this website for over 10 years to plan my European trips. I started posting only recently but have not “dared” to ask a question because I’ve seen the responses many new or inexperienced travelers receive from those who have been around for awhile and are just a little burned out from answering similar questions over and over again. I always try to be non-controversial in my posts, because travel is supposed to be “fun” and I don’t need extra drama in my life; still, I’ve found myself on the receiving end of rude or argumentative responses from the “old-timers” on this forum who, as others have accurately said, “act like a high-school clique” or view this forum as their “own personal fiefdom.”

Sometimes a question is posted that clearly requires the person asking the question to do a little more research, or perhaps the person researched and couldn’t find the information they were looking for. Posting links to various websites that provide additional information is helpful to both the person posting the question and others browsing the helpline for information. I appreciate both the links and the personal experiences

Regarding the edit feature: Would it be possible to allow unrestrained editing for a short period (five minutes? ) in order for the poster to fix his own stupidity/grammar/spelling; then, after the time expiration, subsequent adjustments would show "time of edit."

Such an arrangement would clearly reveal waffle-wording or anything adjusted later in response to disagreement by subsequent posters.

Thank you Webmaster for coming on and assisting us and listening to us. It is greatly appreciated.

To address a few items. I do not feel "burnt out", I just felt like the fun is gone. People like to joke around a bit with each other and the joshing back and forth is simply fun, and then someone comes on and says "stop, this is a travel forum, keep your posts about travel".

Please keep the edit key, I often make mistakes, sometimes when I re-read my post I find that it isn't as friendly or kind as I thought it should be, so I edit it. I have been known to delete my posts when people felt they were offensive, but have also posted that I have done this. Sometimes when there have been problems on here, I have suggested to the other poster that we both remove our posts. I delete mine and the other person doesn't. Why, I don't know.

I prefer to be kind, and not snarky, to be open and not judgemental. Some of the bigoted posts I have seen on here though, boggle the imagination! Even after receiving abusive PM's with foul language, and having totally untrue threads begun about me on here.

Still, for the most part, I truly enjoy the majority of the people on here, and try to assist in whatever way is needed.

Regarding the editing of posts:

I like the edit button for many of the reasons already mentioned (catching typos, adding a comment, etc.) and I wouldn't want to see it go away. I do think, though, that some posters overuse the edit for other reasons, also already noted (being first to post, making themselves look as though they had the correct information all along, hijacking the answers of subsequent posters).

I think as far as the options the webmaster presented, option 2 seems like the most workable. If the erroneous information is left (with a prominently displayed disclaimer) it makes the whole thread make a lot more sense. It often doesn't if the original answer is changed. And I think the observation that subsequent posters who do give correct information often feel shortchanged when that happens is an astute one. Perhaps such subsequent posts could be handled more diplomatically than they are, in some cases, too. If our goal is to give good information to people who ask questions then we should try to leave ego aside a bit. I have posted incorrect information in the past, but when I was corrected I let my original answer stand simply because my corrector was right - my information WAS wrong. I didn't hide behind the edit button to make it look like I had been right all along.

Regarding experience vs. research:

As I have said before, I do a lot of research before a trip. If I have a question that I haven't found the answer to I might find it helpful to ask it in a forum such as this one, trusting that someone with experience could point me in the right direction. I think that's what people who come here are generally looking for. If the only response I got was a link to, say, a list of B&Bs instead of a recommendation for a B&B in Galway, I wouldn't find it helpful at all - I've already done that part. I don't need email addresses and phone numbers, I want to know of a B&B that someone really liked.

Sometimes new posters have already done a lot on their own, sometimes not, but often they are answered as though it is assumed that they are completely clueless. That can be off-putting to someone who just wants the specific information they ask for. There's a big difference between being given a link to a list of B&Bs and being given a recommendation based on firsthand experience.

How about eliminating the # of posts info?

Doing so would eliminate increasing my # of posts as a possible motivation for posting, and would put all of us on an equal footing and eliminate the suspicion in the minds of others that a person is posting just to increase their # of posts.

Well, I've been "guilty" of posting links. Sometimes it has been to an interesting article I've seen elsewhere; other times, I've found an answer for someone.

It is conceivable that the person was just lazy and could have found the answer themselves. I've had enough experience with people who are just horrible at conducting searches though that I usually give the one asking an "obvious" question the benefit of the doubt and assume they might have difficulty finding an answer themselves.

I understand that simple queries being asked repeatedly can be akin to fingernails on a blackboard, but I prefer to try and be helpful because I appreciate it when someone is patient with me. Years ago I posted a question on some do-it-yourself home building web forum and was immediately shot down by several replies that informed me that by asking the question I asked, I demonstrated I had no idea what I was doing and, therefore, should not even try. It still stings years later. (Oh, and I ignored those guys and took the more friendly advice and successfully finished converting our attic to living space.)

Please keep the edit button. I like being able to go back and fix something that I only noticed after rereading. Perhaps a happy medium would be to show a line that states "last edited" and the date.

I think there is a place for both research vs experience. However, it drives me crazy when people recommend a hotel that I doubt that they have ever stayed in or comment on a town that they have never visited without making it clear that they don't have first hand knowledge.

It would be helpful if people made it clear where they learned the info or what they are basing their opinion on. For example,

-I've never been to xyz, but I came across this information that might be useful ...

OR

-I visited xyz in June 2007 and ...

Kent, I usually agree with you but respectfully disagree on the number of posts. Personally, I like to see the number of posts...it gives information about how new the poster is to this forum, the number of responses they've given, etc.

It might be helpful to include the year the person began posting on this forum--for example, I've posted over 1000 times but over a period of at least 2 years.

It's just been recently that "posting just to post" has occurred.

Can't agree with Kent on eliminating number of posts. I'd rather see his or Nancy's high number. It gives a sense of creditability. Same for Lee, Frank, Frank II, etc. The more central issue is eliminating the faux-expertise posts/posters, regardless of the high number.

Well, I am a little confused about this whole thread,, so I will just wade in with my few opinions on how I like a travel forum to work..

First,, I NEED the edit function, my spelling, grammar and just plain old proofreading is terrible. I often have to clean up my messy posts.. I think faster then I type ,, and I type faster then I read, and I hit the "Post" button too fast too often. I need to edit!!

Second,, I haven't noticed some of the stuff others have,, but I am sure all sorts of things happen on any forum,, its human nature to have bad days,, or , to post something you meant lightly,, but it is takenly too strongly,, so best to repair it .

Lastly, I like links being posted sometimes,, so much easier to click on then go and find the hotel website myself for instance. As long as poster is honest about their experience. ie: I have reccommended a hotel in Paris I have not stayed at,, BUT, I did tour three of the rooms , so I do know what they look like, if they were clean etc , and how staff behaved with me. I always state that when I suggest that hotel. All others I have stayed at.
Posting long lists of random links is not useful though,, since most of us use forums such as this to get OTHER TRAVELLERS opinions, not commercial endorsements or read self promotions.

I like the board pretty much the way it is ,, and when I get tired of it( or the stupid politics etc),, I just jump over to another forum for a day or two,, I like many travel websites .

I also do not let little things bug me too much,, you will never please everyone.

There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding about posting links. I don't think anyone, including me, is against the posting of links. They are valuable tools. The thing that isn't helpful are posting links willy-nilly (just thought that word looked fun) that contain outdated or incorrect info. Once posted and having the failure pointed out, having the decency to at least acknowledge it would be a step forward.

Humour works wonders too. Who can remember me posting that I had been in Germany for 20 decades? I was tooooo happy to have the edit button that day.

I really cringe when a newcomer posts and gets shot down immediately with some snarky replies. There are gentle ways of getting points across to someone new. Even if it is something like, "I am going to Italy next year, where should I go, what should I see and how much will it cost."

Thanks Jo for raising this issue. There are some ideas here that I think will help move us toward better civility.

First, I agree that if you post wrong information it needs to be corrected. I like Kent's notion of sending a pm to the original poster with the correction giving them the opportunity to make the correction.

But sometimes it's hard to tell if it's "wrong information" or just "different opinion". For example, on a recent post about a base to explore the highlands of Scotland someone said that if you want to hike, basing yourself in Inverness would be a mistake. The poster based this on 5 trips to the highlands. I would disagree with this opinion. But this opinion isn't always wrong. If you want to be up and climbing munros and hiking long treks, and not worrying about the weather, stay in the west. If you want flexibility to dodge weather and explore more than the west, well stay in Inverness. I wonder if we need to just be more careful about opinions, facts and absolutes?

I think it would help if when a post is edited that it's marked as edited. And when a post is removed, that there be an indicator that says, "this post was removed" for whatever reason--request of the poster or because it was inappropriate. This would add clarity to the threads.

Pam

NEW, CLEAR DIRECTIVE FROM MANAGEMENT:

Naturally, this topic has garnered some attention amongst management here at Europe Through the Back Door. The following has been decided which should clear up the source behind the issues that many of you have noticed.

From now on, all responses to questions are to be based purely on your own real-life experience. To be clear, management has decided that searching for the answer to questions (using Google or any other search methods) does not provide the value that the Helpline intends to offer individuals who come here looking for help. The best way that we can provide value to people who come here asking their travel questions is to give answers based on your own experience. All answers should be written by you.

There is some potential grey area here that I wish to immediately address. This doesn't change our stance on the use of links. Links are fine when used to enhance your answer. The primary form of your answer to someone's question should still come from your experience. I realize that certain over-asked questions that many of you have been jaded on can be easily answered by a link. This is still OK. For example, if someone asks about train schedules, giving a link to the Deutsche Bahn site is OK. However, this should come from your own experience of having used that site to get your train schedules. Whether or not the link answers the question should be verified before submitting a link in your post (credit to Lee from below)!

This decision has not been made to target any individuals despite the fact that it will affect a minority more than the majority. We all recognize that we are here to help people with their travel questions. I expect that all of us will be respectful in concern to this clarification of the rules.

I like Pam's idea of marking edited or deleted posts better than what I suggested.

I don't think there's a problem with divergent opinions.

I don't even see a problem with posting honest errors. If you do it, take your lumps and live with it. I won't take mine down; but try to acknowlege the correction.

The problem, which everybody is carefully waltzing around, is the single-source origin of a clearly visible trend of feigned experience.

If we put <del> before the wrong information and </del> after it, it will show on the post as crossed out, showing it's been deleted (but you will still be able to read what it was). But just make sure you put the </del> at the end, or everyone elses post after that will be crossed out, too.

Lee, did you leave out the word "after" or something?

I was editing my post.

BTW, for you HTML jockeys out there, when you put in the <> symbols, they will execute rather than display, so to show <&gt, I actually had to write &lt;&gt;. Unfortunately, when you go back in to edit it, the editor changes &lt;&gt; to <> and, when you save it, it executes.

I ain't believing I actually tried to understand that.

As for using websites found on Google, you have no way of knowing they are accurate. For instance if someone wanted to know about an IC from Frankfurt to Munich, and you did a Google search, you'd maybe find and post a link to RailEurope. We all know that RailEurope does not show all trains and that, if you want other than what they sell, you need to go to the Bahn website. However, someone asking the question would not know that RailEurope does not show all trains and would think the train didn't exist.

That's just a hypothetical case, but similar bad information is being posted on this website everyday because someone is posting links to "secondary" websites with old or inaccurate information, not the "primary" website with the official info. When someone posts a link, they should try to verify that the info on it is accurate. Bad information is no better (maybe worse) than no information at all.

Webmaster note: I have taken this response into account and edited my statement above

I confess I would not suppose any of this was a big problem had the webmaster not started this thread.

Links, like words, can be useful or not. The same standards should apply to both.

If people are getting cute with the edit feature, maybe they should be called on it. Maybe. Is this really a big issue?

Generally, I think a light hand, applied periodically, should solve these problems without introducing new ones.

I hope the webmaster will let us regulars know how we can help.

SECOND CLEAR DIRECTIVE FROM MANAGEMENT

In regard to the issue of negativity on the boards. If you post something that is negative on the boards, your entire post will be deleted--no matter how helpful the rest of it is. I will always inform you when I have deleted a post. I will issue you with a clear warning for that behavior. At my discretion I may give you a second warning if something about the initial enocounter was not clear. If you repeat the offense, you will be kicked from the site. It is that simple. It will not matter how much you have contributed to the site.

Advertising will continue to be a two-strikes-you're-out policy.

I apologize for the harsh tone of this, but this is the directive that will ensure positive behavior on the boards.

The best way to avoid having this happen to you: Do not respond directly to people on the boards (unless of course, its a completely positive response). Completely respectful disagreements are OK, but any snideness in remarks will not be acceptable. If you don't like something that was posted, even if they are breaking a rule, ignore it. If you wish to do something about it, contact the webmaster.

The Posting Guidelines will be updated with these directives soon.

To be fair, all of my regulars here start with a clean slate. There have been some infractions by many that I have let slide in the interest of appeasement. This can no longer happen. PMs are not excluded from these rules, but realize that public posts are much more visible. We all need to be respectful to each other. Understand that I may not catch everything. The existence of something or someone breaking the rules will not excuse any breaking of the rules on your part.

I see that the research vs experience question has been decided upon, as well as the negativity issue. I can certainly respect the decisions.

Regarding the editing of posts (and this may be a naive non-web design question), would it be possible to have the edited text come up in a different color font. Basically, would it be possible to set the edit font color to something other than black. That way we can make our silly corrections (and big deal if it's a different color for a spelling error) and also allows for more accountability with the other issues related to editing.

any guidance on how "fresh" the experience should be? Is there a best-before date for experiences on frequent topics such as hotel recommendations (obviously fresh is better) vs. towns the poster has visited, which likely haven't moved recently? I'm not being facetious, I'm serious. Guidance appreciated.

ETA: I have shared my, and eagerly read others', planning experiences, since that is the phase of this year's trip I'm currently in. I have gotten value from these experiences - where to look for museum passes, how they are approaching train reservations. These are experiences too - are these excluded?

But if the poster doesn't jump to post for the sake of posting, and makes sure he/she has actual knowledge, then the probability of mistakes is limited.

If people would stick to what they actually know, and perhaps follow it up with a link to confirm, it would make this board run smoother.

No need to post just for the sake of posting of the desire to want to answer. No need to give links that are years old.

Being the first to answer doesn't mean that person has knowledge, it just means they spend too much time on the board. :)

Guidance: If its in your experience, talk about it. There will be differences in people's experiences and part of that differences may be due to time. The Helpline simply won't work if we started picking negatively at other people's experiences. If you have a differing opinion, respectfully share it... and you don't need to do it in a way that point out how others are wrong.

If you're concerned about the timeliness of your experience, just start your post with "X years ago..."

I get so tired of all the politics on this travel helpline! It is so obvious that certain poters don't like other posters! Then the judgemental factor rears it's ugly head. I just stay away and it is a shame! I have a lot to offer and a lot to learn but I get so frustrated with the back and forth that I look at other sites. I realize that human nature causes people to behave badly sometimes but lately it has really ruined the pleasure I and I am sure others get from some of the fantastic information some of these seasoned travelers have to offer!

I must say, this is quite entertaining to follow.

Jo and Webmaster: Thank you so much for getting this out in the open...to clear the air and to get us back on the right "track"!
I do like being able to edit and feel that if a correction is needed to erroneous info, that all we should do is edit with the notation: "CORRECTION:....".
It does not bother me when we keep getting the same questions because I can understand that some people don't want to wade through posts that have 44 or 63 responses that might be old, in fact ancient. In spite of the age of so much of Europe, things are constantly changing, for example, the museum pass entrance to such&such might be changed from the east side of the building to the north side.
Patience and tact are nice to have when we can't use body language and tone of voice!
Again, thank you!

Oh, my. I wish I had understood what the concerns were or I would have said something sooner.

I hope that Directive #1 will be enforced very loosely, as otherwise it would probably shut down Tim's rail posts completely, and he is a real treasure who provides excellent help to many people.

I also think that if the appeal to "regulars" is genuine--"Your Input Is Needed"--that it's jumping the gun to issue Directives just a few hours after asking for it.

So I hope the folks in Edmonds will continue to think about this.

Well, I'm a relative newbie to this board and I have to say that I find it lively & interesting and I don't have a problem with edits or weblinks or whatever from people trying to help. Sure, someone's going to occasionally post a link to an outdated train schedule, so what? I don't come on this board expecting perfection.

The only thing I don't like - and it's relatively rare here - is the rudeness or sarcasm or know-it-allness that pops up at times. If the webmaster can control that a bit, so much the better.

But I have to say that this forum is generally WAY better behaved than most others I've seen.

Adam, Tim's rail posts are not the issue. He has nothing to worry about.

Wow! I had no idea I'd find such a storm brewing when I switched on the computer this afternoon! I've read over the replies so far and have a few general comments, but need to give the issues and opinions some further thought. Also, I've been working "night shift" so my thought processes aren't as clear as they might be.

A few thoughts on some of the points that have been raised:

The Edit button - I really LIKE the Edit button and hope that it won't be removed. Sometimes after reading my posts over, I notice spelling errors or notice ways that I can clarify the information I'm trying to provide.

The "No. of Posts" tag - I also like this as it provides several pieces of information. It gives a good idea on who's new on the HelpLine (might need more help), and also provides some indication of those that are frequent contributors.

HelpLine "Raison d'être" - In trying to reach some sort of solution, I suspect a compromise will be needed. As I understand it, the purpose of the HelpLine is to provide accurate travel information for those traveling in Europe. That may involve a bit of Google use to provide solutions that the OP may not have known about.

It would be unfortunate if the HelpLIne became so burdened with rules and restrictions that it became cumbersome to use. That would tend to discourage people from taking the time out of their days to offer advice and try to assist Rick's readers. That would also undoubtedly increase the workload of the Webmaster (something I'm sure he doesn't need!) in monitoring and "policing" the posts.

These are a few preliminary thoughts, but hopefully a balanced and reasonable solution will be found.

One final note - one of the members here suggested a separate section for informal discussions on a variety of topics. That would be great, as it would provide the group here with an area to chat about topics that might not always be related to travel.

Cheers all!

Webmaster, et al;

I would be thrilled to see the sniping between certain regular posters here put to an end. To our credit, I think, it stands out because it is pretty infrequent compared to other boards out there. I have been on several in which sniping was the norm. It was sport. This has been refreshing for me here these last several months.

I have a comment about personal travel experience though; When we get ready for a trip we do very extensive research and we do it almost a year ahead of time. By the time I've done most of my research I feel almost like I've been there already. If someone comes along asking a basic-level question about a place we have done research on, but have not yet been to, I think I should be able to respond with an opinion, especially if I note that we have not been there yet or are going there this summer or whatever.

Re: the "number of posts" tag: they only tell how many or how long a person has been on Rick's Graffiti Wall, they don't tell how many years or number of times a person has traveled. I for one rarely post because frequently someone has already posted something similar to my opinion/information...I post again if it shows additional support for the comment but otherwise feel that it's redundant.
Just a comment!

Apparently, we've run into a grey area in referring to what classifies as "experience." The question is does experience only mean that you've been there? Can experience include what you have researched?

This question currently gives me a headache as I don't believe anyone has had issues with what Randy has done here and I don't expect his behavior to change. I am not interested in having some sort of heavy hand in monitoring every last post. I do know that calling something experience when it was actually a cursory search has been abused by a minority and has caused issues with many of our regulars.

I agree with Randy that any rudeness stands out because it is unusual.

If we were all in a room at a party, and the local know-it-all came up and started pontificating, there would be nudges, eye rolls, and knowing looks amongst the other party goers. That kind of quiet, "get a load of that" is hard to do online.

I do want to know what makes the webmaster such an expert if he's only got 24 posts? Harumph, some people!

Sorry! I didn't mean to give you a headache. I am sure a commen sense approach will be sufficient. Sleep peacefully. We'll be fine.

I have found this discussion both enlightening and challenging as well as a bit difficult. It made me think through some of my posts. Was I "pontificating"? Does the fact that I haven't traveled as often recently as I used to detract from the validity of my posts? I retired a year ago and this board has been a bit of a lifeline for me. I hope there are not significant changes. I like the edit button. I feel most people share good (or what they think is good) info in good faith. Links aren't a problem for me (I just wish I could comprehend the HTML "stuff" so I could make mine a real link when I use one).

Webmaster- whatever you do, please try to keep the positive tone of this board. Rick's easy going, positive, open philosophy about travel is what made me fall in love with European travel and this site has seemed to be an extension of that. I hope we don't loose it. We appreciate your efforts to protect and continue it.

Coming in late to the discussion, but wanted to add a few things.

To Randy's point: Sometimes if I am planning a similar trip and have done extensive research already, I might be able to share something I have found based on that research. However, I would call it out as such (like: "I have been researching this, too, and have found...."). I wouldn't share info I hadn't either personally experienced or wasn't about a trip I wasn't also planning.

About the Edit button: On other sites that have the Edit function, you are forced to explain why you are editing. For that reason, I usually like to make a note when I edit a post (rarely edit, cause I am laaaaazy) generally saying something like "ETA: xxxxxx" which explains my reason for editing. I've also had experience with revision controlled publishing, so that makes the anal retentive part of me feel at ease.

I'm thinking that the date a poster started would give a better idea of his or her connection with this helpline rather than the number of posts. There are hundreds of posts here that are not "helpful" in terms of travel, but they do give indications about the personality of a poster--and that helps me decide whether or not to value their opinions. (Some of the "non helpful" posts are funny though and sometimes that's what I need!)

I do like the edit button--I just used it to change bitter to better!!

Wow...been away from the board for a while and look what happens! :-) A few thoughts on the topic at hand.

Regarding edit button: I too vote to keep the function as it helps my perfectionism issues to go back and fix my grammar and spelling. :-) Perhaps when we edit either/or combination of the following would help. Text that is edited is highlighted in red or blue and when submitting your edited post, you have to indicate the reason for the edit by choosing from a choice of buttons such as "edited for grammar/spelling", "edited to correct information", etc. This would then be displayed at the top or bottom of the post.

Regarding experience vs. research: For me to best answer this, I looked back to the reason I first visited this board back in 2008 as we planned our first trip to Europe. It was great to get personal experiences on certain topics, but I also understood those experiences are colored by the individual. The best help for me was the research and resources members provided as we built our itinerary. Links and information were invaluable. I think if we can do a better job to clarify that the info is based on actual personal experience versus something else will go a long way.

of posts links: I agree, that it does lend credibility to answers (in general) when you see how many posts someone has. Perhaps a compromise is to have the # of posts counter stop counting at 1000 or 2000 posts or something like that. Once your reach that number your # of posts will say 2000+ posts. That would help to provide some credibility and put a limit on the amount of posts some try to get. Sure, they may strive for that, but then the game would end once it hits the top number. They can then either go away, or post when helpful information is presented.

Edited: 8:10 PM Reason: Add smiley faces

I'm back again. This is quite the thread!

Couple additional thoughts from me.

1) No. of posts to Length of time. I really like this idea. Could someone who is brand-new to the site have an extensive amount of knowledge? Certainly, but the members who have been around for years will be those who have maintained the positive vibe of the boards over the years.

2) Experience. I'm similar to Randy in this respect. I do a great deal of research, so I know about places that I haven't actually been to yet. I think the key is in the phrasing. Saying "I haven't stayed at Hotel X but my friends loved it" or "Hotel B is highly recommended on this board" has less value than someone's direct first-hand experience, but it still has value--especially if it is a thread that hasn't been replied to.

I generally try not to post about things I don't know, but when a topic has sat for a couple days with no responses, I may do some Google searching and try to come up with my best guess at an answer.

One further comment.....

It's remarkable that personalities and especially ego can cause such furor even in a written forum, between people that have never met.

Hopefully this will be sorted fairly quickly, so that we can get back to the "community" we have become to some extent.

Re the number of posts issue: Another travel-related board I like allows the users to include information about themselves beyond where they are from. Nothing too elaborate or Facebookish, just a list of where they've been and when. So, on this other board, I can see that a particular user who has 120 posts has been to XYZ twelve times since 2006, whereas another user who has 750 posts has only been to XYZ once in 1996. I wouldn't completely disregard user #2's experience, but I would be more inclined to really concentrate on user #1's experience, even though s/he has fewer posts. I wonder if allowing short profiles would be handy on this site, or would such be regarded as irrelevant.

Would a link to a page where a short travel biography of posters could be viewed by others if they wonder about travel experiences of the poster. It's late and this may not make much sence. There are many of you out there that I feel almost like a friend because of all of your sharing and maybe this would be a way to know each other a little better.

Honestly the number of posts a person has or has not very rarely signifys anything special to me. An exception might be a first time poster who asks a provocative question or such,, in which case I may assume they are just out for bait. Otherwise alot of posts does not mean a person is an expert,, or even particularily well travelled,, it just means they are more gregarious, or have more spare time on their hands. I fit under both categories, I do have alot of spare time, ( I only work part time and with one child moved out,, another on his way soon, I really only have one child who still needs me,, ( although being almost 14 she would argue that) LOL and I like "chatting" and /or helping out .

One thing that IS good about seeing how many posts a person has is you can then eliminate them as "a plant" ( like when someone comes on and self promotes their tourist related business, or posts a hotel review about their own place representing themselves as a another traveller) .

I'm a bit late to this, but thought I'd go ahead and put my 2 cents in. I'm glad we're keeping this board to posting based on experience. I know there's lots of people who ask questions who don't do a lot of research beforehand for whatever reason, but I think the purpose of the helpline vs. other parts of the site is to get answers based on opinions.

I try to always put a time on when I went to places, especially when putting prices on. For example, I just posted a recommendation for Pension Peters in Berlin, but added that the price that I paid was before the change to euros, which was a while ago.

As far as links go, go ahead and keep 'em in there. I don't put them in mine, I'm more of a quick answer kinda girl.

Don't know if any of this has already been settled but as someone who considers themselves a "regular" here is my take on some of the items:

Posting "google-searched" info versus personal experience. I may have answered posts about "how long does it take to drive to (somewhere) with the information about how to find and use viamichelin.com, EVEN if I have not used it for exactly that route. I thought this was helpful because it answers a question and also shows someone how to get other, similar information. I guess this is like posting train schedules and I think this should be allowed.

Posting links: I click on some of them, not nearly all of them, so not sure if there is some inappropriate linking going on. The few times I've done it, I have enjoyed the article, whatever. I would imagine this is just something that needs to be policed just as other inappropriate postings without links.

Edit button: I like it, though I must say I am more careful on the sites where I can't take back what I've said as easily - not wrong information, but more my "tone". I have deleted sentences where I realized that I've come off too harsh.

No. of posts: Seeing that someone is asking for the first time, I assume they are not as "travel savvy" - yes, I realize this is not always the case. But I'm more patient with someone like this than a poster with high numbers.

Personalities, everything else - It doesn't take long to figure out who is who on this board and there are regulars with recommendations that I use just as I would use a REAL friend's recs. There are others who I don't bother reading because I know we don't agree on things. If there is something really bad I will take it upon myself to contact the webmaster.

Good luck policing the web!

I hope we don't eliminate disagreement. Since we are posting opinions, there will be differences of opinion. One person thinks the leaning tower of Pisa is the greatest thing ever, another thinks it's not worth the time.

Those differences of opinion are valuable because they help travelers weigh both positive and negative responses to see if something is good for them.

I often find negative opinions at least as valuable as positive opinions.

I actively avoid raining on people's parades, especially with overly ambitious itineraries, but I'm not sure the web should filter those negative responses.

I agree with Brad that it's OK to disagree. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Should be courteous and polite, and not said in a demeaning way. And as someone else said, we don't have the benefit of tone of voice or body language so it's even more important that when we disagree in writing, that we respect the opinion of the other person or of the poster.

While I know I'm quite late in posting this - I've been reading along and thinking.

I haven't posted a lot of information -yet - basically because I haven't taken my trip yet. However like some have mentioned, I have been researching for months, have read every RS book known to makkind, and googled enough to make my head spin - I would hope that some of my extensive hours sitting here and reading might help someone else who is just starting.

I've also appreciated all the advice and pointers I've received from numerous people, espcially as a newbie when I didn't even know where to look for help. Some was given in a message thread, some by PM - both appreciated.

For me, when I see a negative post, or a slam, I just mentally hit the ignore button, and try to remember that whomever left it, has much more going on in their lives, than I'd ever like to know.

I belong to a couple of different message boards, and participate on a semi-regular basis. I will tell you that this is the only board i've ever visited where negative and crud remarks have ever been tolerated. So to that, I think Webmaster has it undercontrol with the new guidelines.

I hope to be able to come back here after my trip and offer whatever I have learned to others who might need it.

Maybe I'll finally weigh-in. The big issue (as I've shared with some other people on this forum via PM) isn't necessarily if the response was based on personal experience vs. internet research. Both are fine in the correct context. It's when internet research is presented as if it WAS a personal experience. I will usually give the poster the benefit of the doubt. However, there may be obvious factual errors that indicate the poster has never been to a particular location, or even worse, something is directly cut and pasted from another website without any citations or even quotations marks. Although this is a forum of volunteers, and the same legal standards do not apply as in the publishing world, these are still a violation of integrity and example of blatant plagarism. Most people here don't want to be rude, but sometimes it can be kind of hard to politely point out obvious fabrications.

As a relative newcomer (about 6 months) this is the first thread I wanted to read that has more than two pages. Can you fix it so that when you click on the thread title, you go immediately to the more recent posts? It's kinda irritating to have to hit "next page" or whatever twice to get to the new posts.

Not really an issue for 95% of the threads, but it sure is annoying here.

EDIT; Wow, I didn't even know until now that after I hit "post" I'm directed back to the 1st page of posts, not the final page, where my comment lands. How silly is that?!?

For the exact reason James mentioned, I also would not want to see a "where have you been and when" profile. Nor would I want to see a special area where only "veterans" could post. Not only could that become quite pompous, it would by design limit the difference in viewpoints and perspectives. I sometimes ask myself why I waste so much time here when so many of the questions are redundant. The reason is because even with some of the most tired questions on the forum ("Can I visit Normandy as a daytrip from Paris?", "Should I get euros in the US or in Europe", "Should I get a railpass"?), each iteration is slightly different and new posters give a slightly different perspectives that helps me learn even more. So, no, anything that encourages more group-think, if I had a vote that counted, I would be against.

I don't think there is anything to be gained by the idea of listing where you have been, profiles, etc. As James said, it would just be another invitation to one-up other posters (not exactly his words, but the same general idea). There are posters here who travel to the same location over and over, and those that never go to the same place twice. Their general travel experience would be similar, but their knowledge of a particular area could vary widely, so what would it tell you in the end? You might assume that because Poster A has only been to the UK that they are less knowledgeable than Poster B, who has been all over, but you still don't know.

Knowledge is important. Experience is important. But reading the question and answering it correctly, is also important.

As an example, if someone asks..."I'm thinking of taking XYZ airlines...does anyone have any experience with it."

Well, anyone with a junior high school education realizes the poster is looking for responses from people with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with the airline. Yet some still post generic information about it, where they fly, link to their website, let them know what FF program they're with, etc.

That's not answering the question. That's just posting for the sake of posting.

Asking "How can I get information on the overnight train from Paris to Italy" and "has anyone taken the overnight train from Paris to France" are two different questions that require two different answers.

If someone asks a question and you're not sure of the answer, don't just look it up and post links. Make sure the link is still valid. Make sure the information is still valid since things change so quickly in today's world.

And if you make a mistake, and you put down wrong info, be adult enough to admit it. Don't look at it as a mistake, look at it as a learning experience.

Lastly, never, ever, ever, plagiarize another person's posting without giving them credit. If that person writes something unique, give them credit. Don't steal it for yourself. (I've had it done to me.)

(I used the edit button to change it to read from "Paris to France" to "Paris to Rome" as the next few posters pointed out my "slip." ) And yes, that's why we need the edit button and it also helps to proofread.

The overnight train from Paris to France?!?......

;-)

That's why we need the edit option!

I do wish RS did have a better search option too.

Randy, I like your ideas about being able to quickly get to the end of a thread, and being directed to your latest post when you hit "Post" or "Edit".

The latter, of course, would just be a coding change. As for last post first, sometimes the best information comes in the first couple of responses. If that were done with this thread, I would open it seeing what was being said now, but have no idea as to what started it all. A better way might be to just have a "go to most recent post" button.

ETA: How about something like this << < Page n > >>, the double arrow meaning go to start or go to last.

Overnight train from Paris to France Frankfurt.

Nothing happens when you click on Frankfurt ????

I always use Steve's searching link and find it much easier to use than the other (webmaster's) one.

I propose that a lot of these shenanigans and squabbles would be avoided if the board ran on something that feels a little less mid-nineties, like vBulletin, which includes most if not all of the features requested in this thread. A lot of the burn-out and mayhem would probably be avoided if for example, the search feature were more robust, and if the actual structure of the threads was different. I suppose that's kind of a pipe dream though, given all of the politics and anguish over the "stickies" here previously.

Oh, and I have to say that a small profile wouldn't necessarily have to be a pompous contest. On most sites it serves as a way to get to know a little more about the person giving you the information. That's why you're here isn't it? For real-people-advice, right? So maybe I'm curious where this person has lived/traveled and if they like eggplant, and how many dogs they have. or whatever. When I want faceless anonadvice I can google for that no problem.

I think the reason that I've stuck it out here so long instead of fleeing for another travel site is despite your curmudgeonly bickering and uncanny ability to turn the simplest question in to a snarkfest, I feel like I've invested something by following the threads for so long and eventually developing a kind of an internal accounting system for who's advice I personally feel holds cred. So without actual profiles, we've all profiled each other a bit already and that holds some merit as we keep on travelin' together on this wacky board :)

I found this site invaluable in planning my first trip to Europe and am now planning my second and ck here almost daily. Although I find certain posters notoriously snarky (I LOVE that word :)), I think it will be hard to "tame" these people as this is who they are. I'm all for it, just think it might be somewhat challenging especially when, as others have mentioned, the written word does not give you the benefit of tone or facial expressions.
As for the experience/opinion question, I find both equally important. I often find in my own business that the "newbies" have a fresh way of looking at things and might add something that the old timers might have missed or just haven't thought of in that way. Everyone's opinions should have value, and it is up to you whether you choose to agree with them or not.

In

If I can remember all the open topics...

EDIT BUTTON: Please keep it. If you'll note from my posts, when I edit, I self-proclaim the edit in the interest of honesty. I need to be able to fix typos (...of which I make many...) and correct information I realize was errant. On other boards I use the board itself is programmed to flag any post that has been editted, how many times it was editted, and how recent the last edit. That tends to police people who edit for unscrupulous reasons (...spelling? LOL)

Experience versus Research: Experience is the clear reason for this board, so should prevail. Personally, when I also research to supplement my experience, or to confirm that things have not changed, I tend to call it out by stating "I did X, and according to 'Y Website' that has now changed a little to be 'Z'..." ... or similar. Users should post mainly on experience -- but where research is used it should be called out as research.

LINKS: Please keep the ability to use them. If making a hotel or resarch site recommendation it really speeds up the reader's ability to go to that resource.

NEGATIVITY: I've self policed this one (and is one reason I want to keep the Edit button... so I can go back, delete anything I said that could be taken wrong, and replace it with a "removed in the interest of brotherly love"... ). Also, it is the nature of the beast on any 'expert board' to have some disagreements, some of which will seem negative. I trust that the Webmaster and moderators will draw the line and delete posts as they see fit, followed by blocking users who are repeat offenders.

NUMBER OF POSTS: I think this is helpful to identify 'super users'. I'd like to see it kept. I do like the concept of a 'super user' room in which the 2,000+ or 3,000+ posters can go to 'debate' issues -- in a private space away from first-time or infrequent users.

DATE JOINED: I like adding this as well. Lurkers are valuable members.

PROFILES: I like this idea. I'm not an uber-experienced traveler, but have a lot to offer. A profile could help folks know what posters they could send private messages to for certain kinds of guidance.

For example, I've worked out of country as much (or more in some decades) as for pleasure travel. I was also an international exchange student in Austria. That is a different kind of experience than some other, even more experienced, posters.

The profile could include.... number of countries (or a full list), total time out of the US, most recent trip (good to know -- as mine was way back in 2003), self-declared areas of expertise (I'd claim traveling with toddlers, for example).

WEBMASTER -- Thanks for hijacking this thread.

JO -- Thanks for everything you do -- and for not ignoring the elephant in the room.

;)

Research vs Experience:
First, I'm obviously not a seasoned veteran of this site, as my "number of posts" clearly shows, but opinions are like earlobes, everyone has a couple, and on this topic I do to...lol
I wonder would it make any sense, or even be possible, for a message to auto pop up( for the poster only) each time someone posts a question, with the message being something to the effect that the replies/suggestions received will be based on personal experience, which can and does vary widely, and then encourage the poster to follow up with their own research?
And I'll give a real example of how the combination of personal experience and research helped me. My first trip to Europe, I did little research and consequently was your typical over packed , spot them from a mile away, tourist. For my next trip, which was considerably longer, my experience taught me to do some research before I went, especially on the luggage issue. I did lots of research on Ricks' Convertible Carry On ( not meant to be a plug for his bag...although I love it...lol) and read many reviewes. Lots of people liked the bag but there were plenty that didn't. Some recommend other types, some had issues with the design, etc, etc. Ultimately I bought and used it and after a 39 day, 7 country trip with just that bag, I was completely satisfied in every way( it's now my best buddy...lol). In looking at the reviews AFTER the trip,and after having personally used the bag, I found that for me personally all the things that people had issues with were NOT issues for me, but I realized that many people were looking for different things/features/etc than I was. My point is is that it was the combination of personal research and real experience from those who've been there, did that, that really provided me with the answer I wanted/needed. If that can be stressed to a poster, then life will be better for all I think...
Just my two cents...

Wow. Long read. Glad to see people on the forum are coming together to move ahead.

Profiles - I agree I would love to see a little -optional- profile where members could fill out info about themselves and their travels/adventures, likes & dislikes. I just find that kind of thing neat to read and informative.

Edit button - YES, please keep, but do put in a "this post was edited on" like most blogs/forums have. Not editing = old information staying in google searches forever.

Searchability - Make an official searchability link (easy to go through Google) and put it somewhere on the site so folks can find the answers, and NOT ask the same questions that's been asked 15 times before - I think that would help with the regulars.

No. of posts/time on forum - both would be nice.

User ratings - What about ratings like Amazon or other sites use "1-10 how helpful was this post to you?" Where -only- the original poster of the question can rate or some such (to avoid bullying).

Positive Comments - yeah, I agree on that keep it happy, nice and positive. Negativity should get a smack down.

Links - If people want to just post links: like to an interesting article, why not make a NEW section of the forum for that, that is more "forum" than "helpine, if that makes sense. "Travel Talk", etc.

I think links in answers are great - IF they follow directly from the question asked, "Here's a link to pictures" "Here's the link to the tour company we used."

Like others, I've peeled away from the helpline, as it's gotten so snarky over the past few months. I've been saddened by it. I hope this is a positive move forward.

As usual - talked too long. So signing off. =) Chris

Hello All!

Well, I must say, this is the most civil "discussion" I've ever heard on a public forum.

I'm not a regular poster here, but you've become a bit of a lifeline for me as of late. I have a chronic illness, am planning a trip in two (TWO!!!!) weeks, and your experience has been beyond valuable.

Here's my two cents:

I've posted many questions. I've received snarky answers to some, but that's their problem, not mine. It's best just to take the high road and ignore it and without a reaction, these people usually go quietly. I'm sure moderator removal happens, although I haven't been aware of it. On other message boards a standard message of removal and a hand slapping replaces the snarktitude (a real word), retaining the person's user name. After a while, you get to know the Snarkers and avoid them.

There are people that seem to underestimate my intelligence and they Google info for me when I've already done so myself. So what? Their intentions are good. Although, sometimes it does close out the conversation. Perhaps a standard tag line, in red, at the top of the reply would remind people that responses should be their own experiences would suffice. We could all agree as well to turn the discussion towards actual experience.

I would love to see a Chit Chat section where people can just post and converse. Many of you seem like friends and ultimately travel results in that, so I think it would be a valid addition.

Don't remove the edit portion, I would never live with the fact that my occasionally typos result in words that shouldn't be shared! My "Which Fart of Travel do You Love Most" posting perhaps would have brought chuckles, but my red face would have resulted in a new user name!

I agree with Elizabeth. It is mostly very nice and polite group of people on this board. And if it's rarely not so, just ignore it. We are here not to show off (I hope) how much we know about subject but simply to help somebody seeking information. If I see specific question either I know the answer or don't. If it was already answered I don't have to put the same answer there. To answer webmaster question how to make everyone respect each other. How about this: if it is not positive don't be personal at all. Research versus experience: let's use both, research can be very useful but clearly state that it is not personal experience. Conclusion: I think that this board is pretty good as it is. I don't see a reason for substantial changes.

It would be nice to be able to click on the person's number of posts to "follow" their expertise. I love this option on other boards and you can easily find someone who's approach you like and read for further info.

My number of posts is very tiny compared to others, but I've been around a while, maybe 3 or 4 years. I think a date stamp from when you enrolled would be nice. Especially for us lurkers who want street cred!

Thank you great Master o the Web

The heading for this topic requests feedback from the "helpline regulars." It's just my opinion, but the status given or claimed by the "regulars" has changed the tone and purpose of the helpline. I believe that originally most posters were fairly new travelers to Europe who were excited to share their discoveries and experiences. No question was too basic, routine, or incorrectly expressed. It feels to me as though there is now a panel of self-proclaimed "experts" who have made this a less friendly, comfortable place to ask for advice. First, just because people claim expertise and have a lot to say, doesn't necessarily make them experts. Second, the regulars too often express boredom with questions they've answered in the past or frustration with questions that show too little prior research. I appreciate that posters take the time to share their experience, but frankly, if a question annoys you, don't bother answering. Maybe some of the thousands of silent readers will then decide to share their personal, and equally useful, travel experience.

I can certainly attest to the really vicious and nasty replies that can be posted on the helpline. When someone poses a question, they should not expect to be criticized because of someone else's personal biases. Case in point, a year ago I was looking for very specific information about importing and traveling with a dog from Italy. I was roundly criticized A) for checking a dog in the cargo hold for a transatlantic trip "how cruel", and B) for wanting a pure-bred dog and not "adopting". I recently posted a question wanting to know if it was cheaper to purchase a high-end watch in Europe or to purchase at home taking into account the Euro and VAT. I was roundly criticized for my definition of a "high-end" watch. I was accused of being an elitist because of what I choose to spend for a watch.

Now, as far as the edits go, I will occasionally edit a post if I have inadvertently left out some detail. It might be a good idea to have any post that has been edited or updated move to the bottom of the thread as though it were a new post. In that case, the person who posed the original question is getting the most updated information off of that reply.

I really like to hear from people who have real life experiences to draw upon. Many people can experience the same things, yet have different opinions or take away something different from the same experience. On the other hand, some questions need extensive explanation such as the ZTL in Florence (ad nauseum). In a case such as this, a link to a website containing detailed information is better than having to explain this thing over and over again in painstaking detail.

I think that what we have to remember in answering posts is that you may have answered the same question over and over again, but the person asking the question has never heard that answer before and deserves the best and most informative answer possible and in a courteous manner. If you can't be civilized then stay off the helpline.

This site has been very valuable to me. My request would be that we could read all the post that one person may have posted. I find some to be very valuable and would love to read more of what they have to suggest.

Great suggestion Stacey. I have often wished that the helpline had that capility myself. Over on Trip Advisor, I use this function quite a lot. It lets you see if the poster has traveled much out of the country, what other kinds of questions they have posted and so on. It is a very useful tool for those searching for information. Many times, I haven't had to post a question as I found the answer in other peoples posts.

Ditto that -- If I find a post I like, it would helpful to be able to find all posts made by the same person.

Am I a Helpline regular? (furiously Googles)

Good question, Neil.

Now that I think about it, I used to be a Helpline 54Regular, but with all the weight I've lost I'm now a Helpline 46Long.

I like things pretty much the way they are.If some people get nasty I just dont read what they say.If people ask questions that are a repeat Id say help them or just skip it.There are people that are experts in an area and I always wait for them to answer.Lee on trains is an example.I wait for him as he usually has the answer.

I like things pretty much the way they are.If some people get nasty I just dont read what they say.If people ask questions that are a repeat Id say help them or just skip it.There are people that are experts in an area and I always wait for them to answer.Lee on trains is an example.I wait for him as he usually has the answer.

This post is all over the place, but stay with me...

I have been reading the helpline nearly every day since it was first online a few years ago. However, I have limited posts because I have limited experience (only Italy). But, my spare time always seems to be used researching online for upcoming trips.

For example, I may have found a great website that gives you all you may want to know about visiting widget factories in Germany and if someone on the helpline is looking for such info, I would gladly give them the link to it by saying I have not been there, but during my planning, I have found it useful. Now combine that with someone who has actually visited widget factories and you have yourself a good answer helpline answer.

I think many people on the board get tired of answering the same old questions and just give a generic link to stop the post from going further.

But if you are a new poster, and need info on widget factories in Germany, you have to browse through "To The West" that include info for 7 countries (because we all know many people are lazy and don't want to do a search).

I propose that the board be divided up even further to individual countries (and other topics) to make it more user friendly for the noobs and for the experts. And not in the format of the Graffiti Wall.

I just keep comparing this board to FlyerTalk, and how FlyerTalk is run smoothly but is also laid out well.

Just my $.02

Webmaster: Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
Thank you for trying to make Helpline better. Thank you for trying to put an end to abuses that drive people away from Helpline and toward other sites. Thank you for hearing people out, then, I hope, implementing and enforcing rules that will enable Helpline to live up to its potential.
I sometimes use this site as a source for information, sometimes ask a question and sometimes offer input. And I really appreciate intelligent posts from Jo, Lee, Steve and some others. But, I have to admit, if I want information, I turn first to TripAdvisor, and if I want opinion and attitude, I look to Helpline. I don't mean to sound so negative about this, but I wish some of the old-timers would realize what kind of impact you have when you gang up on new posters whose questions or comments may not be to your liking. When you act like a high-school clique, you make others feel unwelcome. And, if you drive people away, you will truly have the place to yourselves.
This may be too negative for the Webmaster. I hope not!

Stacey from Lafayette writes: "My request would be that we could read all the post that one person may have posted."

Answer: You can sort of accomplish that using the search function in the Webmaster's top sticky, to go there click here

Follow the 4 instructions there. In the "all these words" box, to find your posts, Stacey, enter the following search terms in the "all these words" box

stacey lafayette

And here you go, here are some of your posts click here

This method is only a workaround and won't give you the kind of "all of a posters posts" results that the Tripadvisor site does. Best we can do right now.

Many of the suggestions made in this thread would require a reprogramming of the Helpline; the word on the street is that a reprogramming won't be happening in the near future. I'm guessing that the Webmaster is storing these good ideas for the day when the resources are available for a reprogramming of the Helpline.

Thank you Kent. I have used this feature and yes it has helped me on this site and many others. I just wanted to a lazy way to view all of my posts. But for now, I am happy.

W.O.W. Just ran across this thread after a few days away.

I like the edit feature. I like seeing the number of postings someone has. I don't mind seeing the same questions again and again...I was one of those questioners a few years ago, and I hope to have more questions in the future. Also, I don't mind the occasional links...just use them if I need them. I'm pretty good at ignoring the snarks, but agree that Webmaster could do a bit of policing.

Cheers, all. My goodness, what a great Saturday night read.