help with itinerary

"We will be doing all of our travel with a rail pass." I'd postpone that decision until there's a firm itinerary. Bern to Barcelona requires more than 11 hours, much longer with some departures. Might want to fly. With 3 weeks, it's wiser in fall to put Switzerland not in November but at the front of your itinerary in mid-October if you want the best chance of seeing the mountains. You could fly into Switzerland first, train through Germany and Benelux to Paris. From there, some trains to Barcelona require only 7.5 hours. Or maybe fly. Zurich to Bern costs 43€. Bern to Munich can be done for 39€ each. Munich-Füssen and back, 15€. Munich-Rothenburg, 15€; Rothenburg-Bacharach, 25€;
Bacharach-A'dam, 29€. That's 166€ so far. Flights from Paris to Barcelona can be had for 20-30€. Do you see where this is going? How much are your railpasses? It's possible by doing a little shopping to axe those railpass prices. Germany: The Rhine is much more than a cruise (which takes all of 3 hours for the scenic part - Bingen to Braubach.) Castle tours, wineries, and scenic cobblestoned villages all require some time. Rothenburg is only one town in that area - Bamberg and Nuremberg aren't on the Romantic Road but merit consideration if you're in R'burg.

Thank-you for all your suggestions. I am now looking into flying into Zurich and am definitely looking into the costs of individual train tickets verses the rail pass. Great ideas.

"am definitely looking into the costs of individual train tickets" Rail Europe is NOT the place to look for good prices on individual tickets; high commissions are charged on top of the highest prices. For trips into Germany, within Germany and leaving Germany, check the German railways site: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en You can't check October prices yet - Check prices 92 days out from now for sample prices. That's when tickets go on sale. And the cheap ones go fast. So next July or August you'll want to jump on that site exactly 92 days out to grab the best prices. They sell quickly on popular routes. Check the national railway sites for other countries as well. They may have different sales windows. Also, high-speed Thalys trains serve A'dam, Brussels and Paris: http://www.thalys.com/nl/en/

kathy, It would help to have a few more details on your proposed trip. I assume you're planning on departing around the middle of October. I definitely agree with the others that it would probably be better to start in Switzerland, as many of the Hotels, etc. in the Berner Oberland close for the season about mid-October. You may be able to find a few places open, but it could be difficult. I also agree that you may want to wait until you have your Itinerary more-or-less finalized before deciding on a Railpass. It may or may not be the most cost effective method. Keep in mind that Railpasses do not include the reservation fees that are compulsory on the "premium" trains (ie: TGV in France). You'll have to pay separately for those. After Gimmelwald, you may want to travel Paris > Bruges > Amsterdam. The rail trip from Interlaken Ost to Paris is as short as 5H:07, with one change. For the trip from Amsterdam to Barcelona, budget airlines would be a good option. Unfortunately, it appears that schedules for early November haven't been posted yet so I can't provide any specific examples. Either EasyJet or Vueling should have flights. The flights are about 2H:10M, which is considerably shorter than travelling by train! Were you planning to use Bacharach as a "home base" for the Rhine? I'd suggest using Munich for a home base, and then day-trip to Fussen. You could also take a short trip to Salzburg from there, which would provide a visit to Austria. Good luck with your planning!

the best way to get to barcelona from switzerland is to fly. training there will take a while, whereas there are frequent flights from major swiss cities to barcelona, most will be just over an hour and are reasonably priced. agree that the railpass may end up costing you more. especially more countries that are included in the railpass. if you do get a railpass and you want to see a bit of austria, however, the best thing to do is on the day you travel to munich, go on through to salzburg, enjoy it for the day, then catch a train back to munich. it's a little over 2 hours each way, and that's an efficent use of a railpass, especially since salzburg is included in any railpass that includes germany.

Agree with the others, put Switzerland earlier in the trip, or leave it out. Towards the end of October, the tourist infrastructure in the mountains shuts down until the ski season begins. If you want to see the Alps, see them in southern Bavaria. The Romantic Road is one of nearly 100 Ferienstraßen (Tourist Routes) that criss-cross the country. The point of most of them isn't the drive itself, but that they link together towns or sites of a certain theme. The actual experience of driving the Romantic Road is no more or less interesting than on many secondary roads in Germany. Drive it if there's several things along the way that you want to see. If Rothenburg is all you want to visit, just take the A7 Autobahn.

Thank-you everyone. This is my first attempt at planning a trip to Europe and I am listening to what you all have to say. I certainly need more help than I thought and I think I should start again. These are the facts so far: -we have now booked the cruise leaving from Barcelona on NOV.6
-I would like to fly into somewhere on or around Oct. 12 and see and do as much as possisble and then end up in Barcelona for 2 nights and one full day before we begin the cruise I need help with an itinerary to decide where to fly into so I can book our flights. I am interested in Paris, Belguim, Amsterdam Germany, Austria and Switzerland, not necessarily in this order and not all of them if you feel it is too much. I need some suggested itineraries. Looking forward to your help

"I need help with an itinerary to decide where to fly into so I can book our flights. I am interested in Paris, Belguim, Amsterdam Germany, Austria and Switzerland, not necessarily in this order and not all of them if you feel it is too much. I need some suggested itineraries." All great destinations. The first three place are just short train trips from Germany. I suggest you first look at your flight to Barcelona - pick one of those first three cities for your departing flight. Find a flight arrangement to Barcelona that you are comfortable with. I notice that Ryanair flies Brussels Charleroi to Barcelona for 40-60€. The city you choose will be your last train stop, naturally. THEN you can figure out your transatlantic option - fly into Zurich or Munich or Vienna and use trains to reach all your other destinations. But what you see in Germany, Austria, and/or Switzerland should be your decision - browse some guidebooks - and it should be determined before you make your flight arrangements. No sense in flying into Vienna if after your research, you'd rather skip the place. THEN, people here can help you connect the cities you want to visit.

Thank-you once again for all your help. Do you think I should reconsider Gimmelwald, Lauterbrunnen Valley at this time of year or by flying into Zurick first, Oct. 12, I might have alright weather? From here to Fussen, Salsburg, Munich (Dachau), Rottenburg, Bacharach (Rhine cruise to St Goar), Amsterdam, Belguim, Paris, then fly or train to Barcelona for Nov. 6. Switzerland ( whether to go or not because of weather) and Germany (which seems to have so much that I would like to see) seem to be giving me the most problem.
Open to all suggestions. Thank-you.