Help! We’re 50, First-Time Euro-Trippers, and Slightly Itinerary-Challenged

Hi, AJ, first of all, it would be helpful if you would list how many nights you are staying in each place. For example, you have April 20-21 for Bologna. Are you spending 2 nights there? And speaking of Bologna, is there some reason you are flying into Bologna, but then traveling down to Salzburg, just a couple of days later? That's an even longer trip than from Prague to Hamburg. You're looking at an 8 hour train ride or 3+ hour flight.

I think the middle part is fine (Salzburg through Prague), but I question the first as noted above. And as far as Hamburg goes, you would be spending 7+ hours on the train coming from Prague (or 3+ hours flying). Then to get to Paris, that's another 8+ hour train ride or 2-3 hour flight.

That seems like a LOT of money and travel time just to see the Miniatur Wunderland railway. Don't get me wrong; I loved Hamburg, but I wouldn't drive/fly/train 7+ hours to get there with that schedule.

Even if you enjoy train trips, you will be losing a LOT of sightseeing time due to the long distances between your first 2 destinations and the last. So just something to think about.

Is there a particular reason you want to go to Bologna? I would save Italy for another trip. The drive or train from Bologna to Salzburg takes up a full day. Also, if you are arriving at your first destination from Australia, you are likely to be fatigued, so I would plan three nights at that first stop. I would suggest reworking your itinerary to start in Prague or Vienna.

I looked at Hamburg’s location and it is indeed way out of your way! Again, you would spend a full day to travel there and another full day of travel to Paris. Only you can decide if you want to spend whole days of your short trip on a train or in a car. Myself - I would prefer more time for exploration and activities in fewer destinations.

Will you be spending a few days in Paris? Do you already have return tickets out of Paris? I would not drive/train all the way there unless I had several days there.

Another idea - The Rick Steves trip “Best of Berlin, Prague and Vienna” covers most of your desired locations, including Cesky Krumlov. Booking this tour would relieve you of many logistical details that are causing you some anxiety. RS tours are really terrific and fun, and they teach even experienced travelers many travel skills.

You could add a couple days before the organized tour (starting in Berlin) to go to Hamburg. The tour ends in Vienna and you could head to Salzburg from there. Then on to Paris if that’s still part of your plan.

At the least, take a look at the itinerary for this tour. It will give you a good idea as to how to put together a logical itinerary. Just keep in mind that an individual is unlikely to be able to exactly duplicate the itinerary of an organized tour since that kind of tour is very efficient in terms of transportation (door to door service), pre-booked entry and guiding for sights, and not getting lost!

If you list where you anticipate spending the night, it would be easier to see where the travel days fall, and how many 2-night stays you are planning, those can be tiring and counter-productive since so much time is spent traveling. Not sure about the length of the trip either.

Repeat travelers do not take the 4 or 5 European country trips past their first one, for a reason.

Another hint: adjust the lodging location to your greater transportation needs. If arriving and departing by train, pick something withing walking distance of the station. Or similar for flying, something near the airport shuttle bus stop. That dream hotel can eat up a lot of time.

AJ, this is a very, very hectic schedule. I think many of us would tell you that you are planning to spend too little time in too many places that are all spread out. You plan to cover an enormous area in 5 different countries. A hefty portion of your vacation time will be spent in travelling from place to place and not in the actual destinations you wish to see. I suppose it is doable but if you are taking the time and expense to go to a place then take some time to enjoy it. You best know your travel style and if it will work for you but since you are first time European travellers, I suggest you rework this itinerary. How do you plan to travel from city to city? If using public transportation your travel schedule will be dictated by your transport options. I suggest prioritising your travel wish list, reducing your desired options and adding on time spent in each chosen place. As it stands now, you will basically have just one full day to explore many of your choices. Give yourselves more time. Or if possible, add more days to your trip.

When we were newbies to European travel, I found it compelling to try and get to many disparate locations believing we may never have a chance to return. Wise and experienced voices here in the Forum helped me pare the itinerary to less-insane and we’ve been back many many times.

Most importantly I have learned over the years two critical itinerary planning skills: look at transport between my stays and don’t move too fast. 2-night stay after 2-night stay turns into a grind. You check in, get oriented, have one day of good sightseeing, then check out, travel and start over again.

Stick to two countries, maximum, in two weeks, and check those connection times as recommended by others. 7 hours on a train is fine once in a trip if needs must, but multiples in a 2 week trip will take away from your enjoyment.

RS has a class or a book or a video or something about learnig to travel. Do it or read it or what ever it is. Then you will be as experienced on your first trip to Hamburg as will be anyone in this forum could be on their first trip to Hamburg, no matter how much of the world they have seen.

There is no mystery or need in most of this. Planning styles is the biggest parts of it. All I can say is what I would do but I am not you. I can imagine you after the trip thinking "we followed Mr E's advice and skipped Prague .... now i will never see it, i feel terrible". NOOOOO! Do it all if that fills a need. Those places you wish you had spent a lot more time at you can return to. Those places you looked at and wondered, "why am I here" well, you only lost a night.

You decide and let the forum help with connections and hotels and daily plans.

Since your husband is a train nut, I can only assume he's familiar with The Man in Seat 61:
https://www.seat61.com/index.html
Is he a full-size train nut or a miniature train nut? If it's the former, I would consider working in a couple of the more scenic train journeys described on the Seat61 site, but your itinerary isn't outrageous for someone who really likes train travel. I mean, you'll be doing a whole lot of it.

Reading OP's other posts, we see that AJ is definitely starting in Italy after a few days of personal stuff in "Tuscany," so starting in Bologna isn't illogical. We also see there is a cruise starting in Paris after these days, so consider Bologna and Paris fixed.

In between, as Mr. E says, you will have to decide and then consider it a learning experience if it doesn't work out. I traveled from Prague to Hamburg, one might say, but in between there was a three-night stop in Dresden and a six-night stop in Berlin. I look at the train routes to see if there is a town or city stop I would enjoy between destinations, and then break up the trip with a two-night stay. Others on the forum hate them, but as one who has only been to Europe on two long trips, I consider a two-night stay very enjoyable and informative. (Unlike what someone upthread suggested, I am more and more bold about short stops the more European travel I do.)

The long train rides for me do amount to a "vacation from my vacation," as Rick likes to say. I take advantage of them to read, daydream, think about subjects unrelated to travel, organize my photos, prepare for the next destination, and take in the scenery, if there is any. I don't mind the long train journeys at all, since I can get up and walk around freely, eat, drink, often but not always sprawl out. Sometimes a chance conversation starts, and that can be memorable too. If you want to go places way off the natural path, such as Hamburg, be prepared to enjoy the train ride by pre-planning your diversions and your eating/drinking.

AJ, my suggestion is to pick a single country and limit yourself to only 3 to 4 stops. Your proposed itinerary wastes too much time (and money) moving from one destination to another. You're also going to 5 different countries with their own individual cultures. Spending only a few days in each gives you only a brief experience before you're off to the next. Take the time to explore and enjoy.

Hi everyone!

Thank you so much for all your wonderful feedback and helpful ideas. it’s been amazing reading everyone’s experience and advice. I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to help me rethink my trip.

Here’s my updated itinerary based on your suggestions. I’ve scaled it back a bit to keep things relaxed and manageable, which feels like a positive step for our first European adventure.

Important locked-in details:

Flights to Tokyo and Munich are confirmed.

The wedding in Tuscany (Castiglione d’Orcia) is on April 15, so that’s why we are in Italy initially.

We also have a cruise booked on the Seine River in Paris starting May 7, so Paris arrival and accommodation are fixed.

We have a flight home from Amsterdam on May 17, so after the cruise we plan to head to the Netherlands. We’re probably staying in Haarlem as a cheaper alternative to Amsterdam.

Updated itinerary (dates and nights only):

Date Location Nights
April 10–11 Tokyo 2
April 12–13 Munich 2
April 14 Travel Munich → Italy (Castiglione d’Orcia) —
April 15–16 Castiglione d’Orcia (Wedding) 2
April 17–18 Plans after wedding not set yet; leaving Castiglione on April 17. Riomaggiore may be tricky, so considering other options. 2
April 19–20 Bologna 2
April 21–23 Innsbruck 3
April 24–26 Salzburg 3
April 27–30 Vienna 4
May 1–5 Prague 5
May 6 Paris — (arrival day)
May 7–12 Seine River Cruise 6
May 13–16 Haarlem/Netherlands 4

Thanks again, everyone — I’m really feeling better about the pace now and excited to enjoy this trip without rushing. Looking forward to any last tips or must-see recommendations!

Warmly,
AJ

AJ,
I am sure you realize by now after all the comments that 2 nights in a location means only one full day there...3 nights=two full days. With that awareness, you can plan what to do in each location based on your usable time there. Choose carefully what you see and do in that limited time. Munich? You have one full day only as arrival day will be pretty much gone. Just take this into consideration, and have a great trip!

Even your revised itinerary looks like bucket list travel. What you will remember from the trip is the exhausting travel from place to place to place to place etc.

Joe32F, they live in Australia.

I read through 2x and am wondering about Bologna. Florence is very close and is hands down a better choice.

Again thanks for feedback. I can't do a long haul flight that is why we have the stop over in Tokyo and flights were booked to Munich before we knew abou the wedding, otherwise would have flown into Rome.
We have been to Paris back packing many moons ago so that is why we decided not to do Paris again.
Still looking at all of your advice and trying to streamline this itinerary. Hoping this one makes sense?

Travelling from Sydney.

April
10: Travel Day – Sydney to Tokyo

11–12: Tokyo – 2 nights

13–14: Munich – 2 nights

15–17: Castiglione d’Orcia – 3 nights

18–20: Bologna – 3 nights (or Florence)

21–23: Innsbruck – 3 nights

24–26: Salzburg – 3 nights

27–29: Vienna – 3 nights

30: Prague –

May
1–2: Prague – 3 nights - day trip to Cesky Krumlov?

3–5: Nuremberg – 3 nights- day trip to Rothenburg

6: Paris – 1 night

7–12: Seine River Cruise – 6 nights

13: Paris (arrive AM), travel to Amsterdam

13–17: Amsterdam – 4 nights

18: Home

Florence has the H Zero model train museum!

I haven't been there, but seems like a great add for your hubby!

https://www.hzero.com/en/

The heart of the HZERO Museum in Florence is its 280-square-meter model railway, crafted in more than forty years by a group of passionate model train enthusiasts.
This H0 scale model railway, one of the largest in Europe, was brought to life by the creative energy of Giuseppe Paternò Castello di San Giuliano. Giuseppe dedicated himself to the model railway with passion and commitment starting in the 1970s. It is an incredible imaginary miniature world where over 70 trains run simultaneously through meticulously reconstructed scenarios. These include architectural inspirations from Berlin, the mountainous landscapes of the Dolomites, the coastal views of Elba Island, and a grand station, reminiscent of Milan’s central railway station, all reproduced in a 1:87 scale.
Spanning 280 square meters, with 121 signals, 1,000 lampposts, 147 switches, 359 sections and nearly 1 kilometer of tracks. HZERO is the largest model railway in Italy.

Thanks Tom, on the list now to visit there!
Thank you for your kind feedback!

AJ,
I think your latest itinerary looks just fine. Have fun!

Oh thanks so much. It is with all your advice I think we are finally getting there!

Well if we are talking about great train museums. This is about a 2.5 hour side trip: https://youtu.be/TBP929AeBac?si=3gE5xl4jhDUNyvw0 and you can do this on certain dates most months: https://youtu.be/P1QMlisLHqc?si=XWM71dcYt-_5iA83

Mr E- looks fab, and yes my husband would love that. Would you suggest a trip from Vienna to go here?

Of course LOL. Budapest is my favorite city. But be sure you spend enough time in Vienna. Its hard to pass up Budapest when you are so close, even if you just spend one night. Yes, I am biased. But if you decide to, take a morning train down spend the day and the night and take a morning train back to Vienna. I can help you plan the whole thing so all the time is used well, and would be happy to.

For the steam train rides its impossible to know this early for next year. But here is what went on this year; look at the Nostalgia trips, but the others inculude things like candle lit dinner trips and the days they do the tours of the restorations in process. Pretty amazing stuff: https://www.mavrailtours.hu/hu/travels/2025 One certain day is Easter Sunday they run a steam train.

More Budapest propaganda: Favorite Tourism Video of Budapest https://youtu.be/1nd5AtZIrTk?feature=shared Anthony Bourdain describing how visually pleasurable Budapest is https://youtu.be/0nd9DuDGCz0?si=aa0c19KaJHEtabkX

Since your husband is a train enthousiast, I highly recommend a visit to the Railway Museum in Utrecht https://www.spoorwegmuseum.nl/en/
Utrecht in itself is a great city with canals, historical buildings etc and it’s only a 26 minute train ride away from Amsterdam.

Thanks Dutch traveller will take a look.
Mr E yes, I would love to weave in a day trip or would you actually suggest taking something out and putting Budapest in instead? I really loved the idea of it... those spas are calling me!

My husband has graciously left all the planning to me, and I’ve been kindly adding in train-related things for him, but I do have to remember what I love too. I’m honestly tempted to create two itineraries and tell him he can just meet me in Paris! lol

Thank you for the Budapest videos and the steam train info-so helpful. If we do end up squeezing it in, I’d love your help to make the most of our time there.

@AJ, I am by no means a train enthusiast, but I very much enjoyed my visit to the Railway Museum. Besides that, Utrecht is a great city and well worth a day trip from Amsterdam.

One comment on your scehdule as it is. This is very subjective. Just my taste and opinion but 5 days in Prague is 2 too many.

Tnanks for the tip Utrecht, will take a look. I just had a look and looks lovely.
Mr E I have scheduled 3 nights for Prague, so I thought?

About Prague, okay, i got confused I guess. Sorry, my bad.

Looking at your latests and greatest, when I say "this is what I would do" it means just that "ME" so never a critisim and rarely a recommendation. But I woud remove a few stops (Probably Cesky Krumlov and Salzburg) and not sure how you are traveling but I wouldnt rule out discount flights. Generally, but you have to look at each trip to know for sure. A 4 hour train ride and a 1.5 hour flight are the same time door to door. With that in mind a 7 hour train ride takes several hours more than the flight ... often ... not always. Then there is the issue of when the train and planed depart and arrive at the destination. Some times you travel longer for a better arrival time. Just takes a lot of reading and researching.

All good! Thanks
Yes that is my next slog to work out transport from place to place. I am just getting used to the updates in Sydney with metro etc so navigating Europe - well we will see ....oh and thinking train travel for the most part.

Hi there, so glad to see all the changes you're making so the trip is a bit more relaxed! Not sure how light you're traveling, but with this pace I would look at all the packing reports here on the Forum, it's a job in itself to travel light!

April 10–11 Tokyo 2
April 12–13 Munich 2
April 14 Travel Munich → Italy (Castiglione d’Orcia) —
April 15–16 Castiglione d’Orcia (Wedding) 2
April 17–18 Plans after wedding not set yet; leaving Castiglione on April 17. Riomaggiore may be tricky, so considering other options. 2
April 19–20 Bologna 2
April 21–23 Innsbruck 3
April 24–26 Salzburg 3
April 27–30 Vienna 4
May 1–5 Prague 5
May 6 Paris — (arrival day)
May 7–12 Seine River Cruise 6
May 13–16 Haarlem/Netherlands 4

Assume you're flying into & out of Narita - You could stay out in Narita, cheaper than central Tokyo as you're really only there a full day I assume? I too would skip Bologna and add Florence, one of the most gorgeous though touristed cities in Italy. I would also drop Innsbruck & spend fewer days in Prague, in favor of adding 3 days to Paris!! Or add a day here and there to Florence, Vienna, etc.

It just realized that Salzburg is also really an outlier, how about a day trip from Vienna? Lots of beautiful scenery. If it were my trip, I would want to map out some train travel so I could judge how much time I actually have in a city - For example, how are you counting the last 4 days in the Netherlands, does this include travel arriving and departing? That would end up being 2.5 days? Just some things to consider, hope you have a great trip!

Thanks Sandancisco for taking the time to reply.
We actually fly into Haneda in Tokyo,we're really only there for a full day, so keeping things low-key is the plan.

We’re now seriously considering switching from Bologna to Florence. I really liked the look of Bologna from Rick Stein’s show when he travelled there,loved the rustic vibe, and we’re total food lovers but Florence sounds wonderful too.

Curious about your thoughts on Innsbruck — what makes you suggest dropping it? I thought it looked quite picturesque with the mountain backdrop and the option to take a cable car up. Is it underwhelming in person?
I will have to look at Salzburg, I didn't realise it was out of the way, I guess as you suggest I need to start looking at train travel. Don't know where to even start with that.

And about Paris-we’ve already done the Louvre and Eiffel Tower ( albeit in our 20's), and we’re not big on crowds, but would love any ideas for quieter, off-the-beaten-path experiences if you have them in we decide to ass a couple more days in Paris before the cruise.

Appreciate all the input!

AJ,
Not exactly off the beaten path, but less crowded and easier to visit than the real biggies....Rodin Museum and Cluny Museum.

Rodin....the gardens with their sculptures is a haven. My favorites among many are The Burghers of Calais and The Gates of Hell. If you don't make it inside his home to see other works, the outdoor sculptures are worth the entrance fee. I have gone there every time I have been in Paris. (Also, the cafe there has a decent lunch menu and is very reasonable.)

Cluny....so much more than The Lady and the Unicorn. Fairly recently rehabbed (wonderfully done) it is loaded with medieval art, sculptures, artifacts, tapestries. It's easy to spend 3-4 hours here, and the building itself is a piece of art. It took me until 2023 to get there, and I am so glad to have finally been able to relish what it has to offer. (A not-too-far walk from there is a Breizh Cafe, great for savory Breton crepes. Also reasonably priced and delicious.)

Amusez-vous bien!

AJ,
Bien sur, take the one hour boat ride on the Seine. I prefer Vedettes de Pont Neuf for their narration. Get in line a bit early to snag a seat on top for the best viewing.
Enjoy!

Curious about your thoughts on Innsbruck — what makes you suggest
dropping it? I thought it looked quite picturesque with the mountain
backdrop and the option to take a cable car up. Is it underwhelming in
person? I will have to look at Salzburg, I didn't realize it was out
of the way, I guess as you suggest I need to start looking at train
travel. Don't know where to even start with that.

Hi again! Coming from Florence or Bologna, Salzburg is all the way across Austria, whereas Vienna & Innsbruck are closer by train. I was really just thinking about you moving around less often & spending more time in fewer places, Innsbruck is lovely, as is Salzburg! Yes, the cable car up the side of the mountain in good weather would be amazing, April is early enough there should still be plenty of snow. About crowds - All these big, wonderful destinations will have crowds. The more research you do ahead of time, advanced bookings for major sites, the easier your trip will be.

You can just use Google to get started looking at how long it takes to take the train between places. It's always better to use the train apps for each destination, but this would give you a general feel before travel of how much time is involved. First think about packing, getting to train station, taking train, getting to next hotel and getting orientated. Realistically, how long will this take you?

To the list of quieter places in Paris, I would add Monet's home, Musée Marmottan Monet. When I was there, I was the ONLY person downstairs sitting in front of many water lilies, amazing.

Thanks so much, this really helps clarify things. I’ll start checking train apps ( which ines, I don't know) to get a clearer sense of travel time beyond just the ride. Innsbruck’s mountain views and cable car are tempting, so I may lean toward that over Salzburg to keep pacing manageable...

And I love the Musée Marmottan Monet suggestion! It sounds like such a peaceful escape.

Speaking of travel, is there an app or apps that I can downlaod to work out travel bookings and distances? So far I have just been relying on Rome to Rio.
Also, how far out should I be booking transport? Thanks again!

Hi AJ,
Just a note...I have read here on the forum that Rome to Rio is not the most reliable site for train info. We haven't used any trains except in France for a long time, so I'm no expert, but perhaps trainline might be better. I would check with maninseat61 also. Lots of luck!

Thanks Judy, yes that is my next hurdle with transport plus a tweak of the itinerary. Thank you!

Everybody has a different opinion and few are "Wrong". Cesky Krumlov is a longish daytrip from Prague, depending on how you do it - it was 2h40 each way by bus (Regiojet - very comfortable). We stayed overnight and didn't regret it, and it is so pretty you almost think it can't be real.

If your husband like trains, then I could recommend a restaurant called Výtopna on Wenseslas square. The whole place is built around a large model railway, and your food/drink arrives by train. Yes it's touristy, it's overpriced, but having never really grown up, I loved it (and the beer was very good). I believe they also have a branch in Vienna - not sure if that one has trains.

Thank you Tim! Adding that restaurant to our list of places to visit- looks ike fun.
Thanks for your advice about Cesky- it was on my wish list so perhaps should add it back in.