Help! We’re 50, First-Time Euro-Trippers, and Slightly Itinerary-Challenged

Hi, AJ, first of all, it would be helpful if you would list how many nights you are staying in each place. For example, you have April 20-21 for Bologna. Are you spending 2 nights there? And speaking of Bologna, is there some reason you are flying into Bologna, but then traveling down to Salzburg, just a couple of days later? That's an even longer trip than from Prague to Hamburg. You're looking at an 8 hour train ride or 3+ hour flight.

I think the middle part is fine (Salzburg through Prague), but I question the first as noted above. And as far as Hamburg goes, you would be spending 7+ hours on the train coming from Prague (or 3+ hours flying). Then to get to Paris, that's another 8+ hour train ride or 2-3 hour flight.

That seems like a LOT of money and travel time just to see the Miniatur Wunderland railway. Don't get me wrong; I loved Hamburg, but I wouldn't drive/fly/train 7+ hours to get there with that schedule.

Even if you enjoy train trips, you will be losing a LOT of sightseeing time due to the long distances between your first 2 destinations and the last. So just something to think about.

Is there a particular reason you want to go to Bologna? I would save Italy for another trip. The drive or train from Bologna to Salzburg takes up a full day. Also, if you are arriving at your first destination from Australia, you are likely to be fatigued, so I would plan three nights at that first stop. I would suggest reworking your itinerary to start in Prague or Vienna.

I looked at Hamburg’s location and it is indeed way out of your way! Again, you would spend a full day to travel there and another full day of travel to Paris. Only you can decide if you want to spend whole days of your short trip on a train or in a car. Myself - I would prefer more time for exploration and activities in fewer destinations.

Will you be spending a few days in Paris? Do you already have return tickets out of Paris? I would not drive/train all the way there unless I had several days there.

Another idea - The Rick Steves trip “Best of Berlin, Prague and Vienna” covers most of your desired locations, including Cesky Krumlov. Booking this tour would relieve you of many logistical details that are causing you some anxiety. RS tours are really terrific and fun, and they teach even experienced travelers many travel skills.

You could add a couple days before the organized tour (starting in Berlin) to go to Hamburg. The tour ends in Vienna and you could head to Salzburg from there. Then on to Paris if that’s still part of your plan.

At the least, take a look at the itinerary for this tour. It will give you a good idea as to how to put together a logical itinerary. Just keep in mind that an individual is unlikely to be able to exactly duplicate the itinerary of an organized tour since that kind of tour is very efficient in terms of transportation (door to door service), pre-booked entry and guiding for sights, and not getting lost!

If you list where you anticipate spending the night, it would be easier to see where the travel days fall, and how many 2-night stays you are planning, those can be tiring and counter-productive since so much time is spent traveling. Not sure about the length of the trip either.

Repeat travelers do not take the 4 or 5 European country trips past their first one, for a reason.

Another hint: adjust the lodging location to your greater transportation needs. If arriving and departing by train, pick something withing walking distance of the station. Or similar for flying, something near the airport shuttle bus stop. That dream hotel can eat up a lot of time.

AJ, this is a very, very hectic schedule. I think many of us would tell you that you are planning to spend too little time in too many places that are all spread out. You plan to cover an enormous area in 5 different countries. A hefty portion of your vacation time will be spent in travelling from place to place and not in the actual destinations you wish to see. I suppose it is doable but if you are taking the time and expense to go to a place then take some time to enjoy it. You best know your travel style and if it will work for you but since you are first time European travellers, I suggest you rework this itinerary. How do you plan to travel from city to city? If using public transportation your travel schedule will be dictated by your transport options. I suggest prioritising your travel wish list, reducing your desired options and adding on time spent in each chosen place. As it stands now, you will basically have just one full day to explore many of your choices. Give yourselves more time. Or if possible, add more days to your trip.

When we were newbies to European travel, I found it compelling to try and get to many disparate locations believing we may never have a chance to return. Wise and experienced voices here in the Forum helped me pare the itinerary to less-insane and we’ve been back many many times.

Most importantly I have learned over the years two critical itinerary planning skills: look at transport between my stays and don’t move too fast. 2-night stay after 2-night stay turns into a grind. You check in, get oriented, have one day of good sightseeing, then check out, travel and start over again.

Stick to two countries, maximum, in two weeks, and check those connection times as recommended by others. 7 hours on a train is fine once in a trip if needs must, but multiples in a 2 week trip will take away from your enjoyment.

RS has a class or a book or a video or something about learnig to travel. Do it or read it or what ever it is. Then you will be as experienced on your first trip to Hamburg as will be anyone in this forum could be on their first trip to Hamburg, no matter how much of the world they have seen.

There is no mystery or need in most of this. Planning styles is the biggest parts of it. All I can say is what I would do but I am not you. I can imagine you after the trip thinking "we followed Mr E's advice and skipped Prague .... now i will never see it, i feel terrible". NOOOOO! Do it all if that fills a need. Those places you wish you had spent a lot more time at you can return to. Those places you looked at and wondered, "why am I here" well, you only lost a night.

You decide and let the forum help with connections and hotels and daily plans.

Since your husband is a train nut, I can only assume he's familiar with The Man in Seat 61:
https://www.seat61.com/index.html
Is he a full-size train nut or a miniature train nut? If it's the former, I would consider working in a couple of the more scenic train journeys described on the Seat61 site, but your itinerary isn't outrageous for someone who really likes train travel. I mean, you'll be doing a whole lot of it.

Reading OP's other posts, we see that AJ is definitely starting in Italy after a few days of personal stuff in "Tuscany," so starting in Bologna isn't illogical. We also see there is a cruise starting in Paris after these days, so consider Bologna and Paris fixed.

In between, as Mr. E says, you will have to decide and then consider it a learning experience if it doesn't work out. I traveled from Prague to Hamburg, one might say, but in between there was a three-night stop in Dresden and a six-night stop in Berlin. I look at the train routes to see if there is a town or city stop I would enjoy between destinations, and then break up the trip with a two-night stay. Others on the forum hate them, but as one who has only been to Europe on two long trips, I consider a two-night stay very enjoyable and informative. (Unlike what someone upthread suggested, I am more and more bold about short stops the more European travel I do.)

The long train rides for me do amount to a "vacation from my vacation," as Rick likes to say. I take advantage of them to read, daydream, think about subjects unrelated to travel, organize my photos, prepare for the next destination, and take in the scenery, if there is any. I don't mind the long train journeys at all, since I can get up and walk around freely, eat, drink, often but not always sprawl out. Sometimes a chance conversation starts, and that can be memorable too. If you want to go places way off the natural path, such as Hamburg, be prepared to enjoy the train ride by pre-planning your diversions and your eating/drinking.

AJ, my suggestion is to pick a single country and limit yourself to only 3 to 4 stops. Your proposed itinerary wastes too much time (and money) moving from one destination to another. You're also going to 5 different countries with their own individual cultures. Spending only a few days in each gives you only a brief experience before you're off to the next. Take the time to explore and enjoy.

Hi everyone!

Thank you so much for all your wonderful feedback and helpful ideas. it’s been amazing reading everyone’s experience and advice. I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to help me rethink my trip.

Here’s my updated itinerary based on your suggestions. I’ve scaled it back a bit to keep things relaxed and manageable, which feels like a positive step for our first European adventure.

Important locked-in details:

Flights to Tokyo and Munich are confirmed.

The wedding in Tuscany (Castiglione d’Orcia) is on April 15, so that’s why we are in Italy initially.

We also have a cruise booked on the Seine River in Paris starting May 7, so Paris arrival and accommodation are fixed.

We have a flight home from Amsterdam on May 17, so after the cruise we plan to head to the Netherlands. We’re probably staying in Haarlem as a cheaper alternative to Amsterdam.

Updated itinerary (dates and nights only):

Date Location Nights
April 10–11 Tokyo 2
April 12–13 Munich 2
April 14 Travel Munich → Italy (Castiglione d’Orcia) —
April 15–16 Castiglione d’Orcia (Wedding) 2
April 17–18 Plans after wedding not set yet; leaving Castiglione on April 17. Riomaggiore may be tricky, so considering other options. 2
April 19–20 Bologna 2
April 21–23 Innsbruck 3
April 24–26 Salzburg 3
April 27–30 Vienna 4
May 1–5 Prague 5
May 6 Paris — (arrival day)
May 7–12 Seine River Cruise 6
May 13–16 Haarlem/Netherlands 4

Thanks again, everyone — I’m really feeling better about the pace now and excited to enjoy this trip without rushing. Looking forward to any last tips or must-see recommendations!

Warmly,
AJ

AJ,
I am sure you realize by now after all the comments that 2 nights in a location means only one full day there...3 nights=two full days. With that awareness, you can plan what to do in each location based on your usable time there. Choose carefully what you see and do in that limited time. Munich? You have one full day only as arrival day will be pretty much gone. Just take this into consideration, and have a great trip!