HELP! My 18 year old sister wants to go to Europe for 6 months!

Neither girl is fluent in any language other that English. (I don't think they are even passable in anything else, one took high school French the other Spanish - no more) Neither girl is particularly "street smart" (just an opinion.) In Switzerland they plan to work for her friends godmother at a hotel as maids (I think.) To earn more money to travel. (PART 2) They want to visit; Italy, Austria, Germany, Spain, France, Ireland, Czech Republic, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, possibly more, they don't exactly know yet. They plan on taking a standby flight into Amsterdam and I guess taking the euro rail down to Switzerland. When I have asked where they are going and what they want to see, they tell me they are not sure. They are both trying to save up $10,000 US dollars, because that is a very rough estimate I made a year ago when I thought this was just an idea. They both have there passports but not work visas yet, nor do they know if they need visas to travel between countries or to say a particular length. So those are the facts. I am obviously concerned or I wouldn't be writing this. Here are my concerns; Are they safe? Should they go? Is there anything I could do to help them be safer? What do I DO???
I love my sister so much I just want her to be safe.

(PART 3/3) My main concerns are just how unprepared they are. My sisters main concern has been to work to raise the money to go but I do not see her getting prepared in the other ways I think she should to go overseas, for example... knowing where she wants to go, what she wants to see, where she will stay, how much it should cost, how she will get there, etc... And then there are big things like...attempting to learn another language, exchange rates, where the US Embassy are, can she use her phone overseas, why hasn't she gone on road trips to get the feeling of traveling alone (she says because she needs all her money for Europe), self defense, how she is going to have money there (travelers checks, banks, what??) And so many more!!! My Mom and her Dad are all for her going as long as she pays for it herself, and when I ask them these questions they really don't seem concerned at all. She is a little hard to deal with and acts like I'm harassing her every time I try to ask her even one of these questions. Until today I really wasn't sure they were going but she bought her packs and other things she needs for Europe so now its official. Honestly I am worried about her. I thought if I posted to some people that are knowledgeable about traveling I could figure it out a little better. I would love to know - Tips - Stories - Advice - Opinions - What to do or not to do - really anything!! Honestly anything you have to say would be helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to help us!!! Best Wishes!
Nic

Well Nic, ,one thing you can relax about , unless the girls are both EU citizens they cannot stay 6 months in Europe. Google and read about the Schengen visa, as US citizens( and is same for Canadians) we can only visit / stay in many of the western europeon countries for a TOTAL of 90 days. This needs to be addressed first. Secondly, their size and whether they are pretty or not is not as material as you think, Europe is pretty safe, as long as they use common sense ( which even if I take in to account your perhaps a tad over protective big brother worries, its does not sound like they have an abundance of.. They should be doing some research and planninng.

honestly, just my opinion, it sounds like you're way over-invested in what your sister is doing and should butt out. she can't stay for 6 months anyway but why is it your problem? europe is safe, not knowing the language(s) isn't a problem.

OK Nic. Take a deep breath. They are not going to deepest parts of a third world country. 1. Every place we went in Europe, majority of people speak English so no need to speak a foreign language except please, thank you etc. 2. They do not need travelers checks, I would not even know where to use them anymore, they just need an ATM and you don't have to worry about exchange rates. Suggest they join a youth hostel program for inexpensive places to stay. 3. As previous poster stated, they cannot stay more than 90 days in the Schengen Zone. 4. No need to be sure where American Embassy is in each country. The only reason would be if lost passport while in Europe and local police can direct them to the embassy if needed. 5. Suggest you look up somewhere on this site about Rick's son who is teenager and traveled to Europe and see what his adventure was like, sorry but don't know how to access this. 6. They are not traveling alone, they have each other. I do understand your concern, but today with Skype and internet, you will be able to be in contact with them. That said, they need to get back to reality and not just save money but get a realistic plan for their adventure, where to go, how long, how to navigate rail, bus system. Are they putting any thoughts into this or is it just you.

...and fat chance of "working" in Switzerland. Ha - not a chance. She's 18 and a legal adult. There's really nothing you can do except present the facts and let her deal with it. They'll call or come back when they're out of money and hungry - THEN you can say I told you so!

This whole scenario, especially your parents' reaction to this plan, reminds me strongly of a trip I tried to plan, to camp in Colorado with friends after high school graduation (I was not yet an international traveler so my goals were smaller). The trip was all we talked about for months, the planning was detailed, and we were determined to go, no matter what. Oddly (or not), as graduation neared, life intervened and everyone was more interested in the end of the year activities and who was going to what college. One by one, the participants in the trip fell away and the plan was never carried out. Years later, I was reminded of the plan by my mom. I asked her why they were ever in favor of a hare-brained scheme like that. She said they were never in favor of it, but knew that one of the other sets of parents was bound to call a halt to it, so they were comfortable sitting back and being the "fun parents" who were OK with it. In the end, because the plan died a natural death, no one ended up having to be the bad guys.

That is an awful lot of money to save for an 18 yr old. I would slow down the panic until she gets closer to her money goal. In the meantime, you as the big sister can do a few things for her. Buy her a good overall guidebook, like Rick Steves' "Europe Through the Back Door." It's geared for a little older than her, but it's got a lot of good info about money, packing, language, etc. In fact, you should read it first. Second, get the two of them in a good self defense class. Not just karate chop stuff, but defensive behaviors/street smarts. Encourage her to do research on visa time limits, and restrictions on working. It's a serious thing that could get her kicked out mid-trip. And trust me, if two 18 yr olds are flying stand-by into Amsterdam, with no return ticket, backpacks on, talking about working in Switzerland with a relative, they will get some extra attention from immigration. Then back off of the other stuff like language, phones, money, etc. The more you go on about all the negatives, the more she'll tune you out. Save your arguments for the big issues. (I'm still learning that!)

Thank you for (most) of the posts so far. I know she wasn't aware of the EU 90 day policy (beaue she just told me it's 90 days per country) I am her older sister and I am concerned and looking for some guidance/info. And just because I I am discussing all my worries and concerns here doesn't mean I'm harassing her about it. I'm looking too feel better about the whole thing just as much as I'm looking for really good info for her. I can't not worry she's my sister and I feel bad for anyone who doesn't have someone who worries about them or has anyone to worry about!
So anyway, it sounds like it is going to be really hard for her to get a work visa in Switzerland, does anyone know what the policy or procedures are for that. Also does everyone really think it's ok to travel that long with no travel experience? Honestly that was one of the things that has worried me the most!

If I were your sister I would stop telling you about my plans.

Nancy - I have thought about that. It's funny your parents did that, brilliant actually. I'm not a parent yet so I don't think that way yet, but it does make a lot of sense that way you arn't the one that "ruined my trip!"

Karen - It is a lot of money, although to be honest I have no idea how much she really needs, of course I was estimating (not even I was guessing) for 6 months and now I know for sure she will not be there that long. So I have bought her a couple of things already, a few travel books, a journal that is supposed to help plan (ha ha), a money belt, and some other stuff. I will def look at the Rick Steves book now. (I am interested to read it too) I have been trying to get her to do self defense class for 6 months, her big excuse is "I have to work so I can save enough" but I will keep on her to get into some self defense. I don't think europe is some scary place, I would feel pretty much the same way if she were going anywhere in the US too, it's just here I can get to her if something happens (Sorry that was addressing some of the other posts). I have tried to get her to look stuff like the Visas and the time limits but I can't seem to get it into her head that whatever her 18 year old friends say is not an absolute fact and that she actually has to look up the info for herself, its so frusterating! This trip has actually been in the works for a year and a half and today (from this blog) is the first of heard of the Schengen Visa or the difficulty she will have getting a work visa in Switzerland. When I told her about the visa she said, and I quote, "our employer there already says he wants us so I don't think a local can get our job if he already wants to give it to us." She def needs to know because your right it would be a bummer to get kicked out. I know, the only good thing is I have ALOT of concerns (obviously) but I really try to censor myself when I talk to her. Thank you so much for the tips and advice!!

NORM - So glad I'm not your sister too!!!!!!!!!!!!
I havn't done one of these Q and A forums before but can someone explain why people are so very negative? Is there actually a reason to be mean or are these just bitter, lonley people, with no life on here to state sophomoric opinions that no one cares about!

Has your sister even looked into buying a plane ticket? I'm not really sure what you mean by standby tickets, they're not going to get some type of great rate by simply waiting at the airport. Flights to Europe are expensive especially from the west coast which you are near. For example I did a quick search 3 months from now from San Francisco to Amsterdam, a one way flight is almost 800 dollars.

Nic, you asked for opinions and you got them. I don't see anyone being negative, just honest.

Berry - Yes she has looked at flights. One of our family members works for an airline and told her that she could get a standby flight from San Francisco to Amsterdam for around $500. Not sure if that will be the grand total price when all is said and done though!

Nancy I was not refering to you at all, but I feel like you know that already. I get that a bunch of you are on here alot and have done thousands of posts and I'm new but I just don't see how saying certain things can even be considered an opinion, what exactly is it an opinion about - my character, my personality??? It seems uncalled for and counterproductive to me.

Nic - how about you start by giving her a gift of the Rick Steves "Europe Through the Back Door" book so she can learn about some of the ins and outs of travel in Europe. Are you an experienced traveler? If so, could you offer to help her plan her trip (which in turn would help educate her)? Biggest issue I see is the Schengen limitations. But she could plan her time so that she's only in one of the Schengen countries for a total of 3 months. And I'm guessing she's going to be paid under the table when working as a maid, so there's probably no intent on anyone's part of her getting a work visa. (You could kindly ask her if she's comfortable taking that risk.) As for stories, etc. I went to Germany a gazillion years ago for the summer with a youth exchange program. I was under 18, didn't speak German, and living with a host family who had only one English speaker - my host "sister" who was to follow me back to the US and whom I did NOT get along with. I survived. I got great at charades, mastered public transportation, and used my deductive reasoning skills to figure out that when I was standing at the bus stop late one Friday evening that I was being propositione and should say no and get somewhere safer. It just might all work out for your sister, too.

RE- working in Switzerland. Basically, to do it legally, her potential employer has to submit paperwork justifying why your sister and her friend are uniquely qualified to work as maids in deference to Swiss and EU member-nation countries. And "they'll work cheaper than the market rate" is not an acceptable reason. And if they're doing it under-the-table... well, they won't have any legal protection if something goes wrong, particularly if the employer is not quite on the up-and-up. And they face the risk of forced deportation. Is this employer someone you know well and trust? If not, you may want to google "Human Trafficking". I'm not trying to be a scare monger, but these things do happen, even in Switzerland.

One more recommendation- Rick Steves' books probably aren't the ideal source for teenagers, since he primarily caters to an older crowd with steadier incomes and less adventuresome spirits (ie, a lot of info on museums, but not a lot about skiing, clubbing, mountain hiking, etc) . The Let's Go series is probably the best for teenagers, followed by Lonely Planet and The Rough Guide.

Nic, welcome to the Helpline. I think you've done a great thing by getting your sister some guidebooks, etc., which shows you support her idea of going on this trip but also shows some concern. I prefer the Lonely Planet guides (the Let's Go series got into some trouble a while back for not actually visiting the places they recommend) - Rough Guide may be a little too rough for your little sister. Both girls probably have iphones or cell phones, be sure they know how to avoid huge roaming charges (turn off the data function before they go and get wifi passwords from hostels or cafes). They can keep in touch easily without spending tons of money. Speaking of money, $10,000 should be fine for airfare plus all expenses for 3 months. I don't think they need self-defense classes, but the guidebooks have information on traveling smart. The worst problem for newbie travelers (of any age) is during transit times when they get distracted. Young travelers are often more trusting than they should be. If they stay in hostels they will meet up with other people their age and probably get great travel advice (as well as companionship), and be more willing to listen to the advice they get. The Schengen Zone thing is no joke - neither is working without a permit.

Too much advice here, so I didn't read it all. But a couple of things are clear: they won't be able to work legally in Switzerland (or anywhere else), and they can't stay more than 90 days total in Schwengen countries. But there is an alternative if they want to stay more than 90 days: go to a non-Schwengen country, such as Britain, after or in the middle of the 90 days.
As to other suggestions, I agree with Lonely Planet or Let's Go rather than Rick Steve's for their age. I also wouldn't worry about safety given that there's 2 of them. They'll be safer in Europe than on the streets of Reno or Las Vegas or pretty much any US city. Nor would I worry about language; just learn how to say please and thank you and "Where is" in several languages. That's what I did 35 years ago when I traveled through 7 Euro countries with no foreign language ability.

Norma had a little fun at your expense, but it was gentle fun, and not malicious. Please don't take it personally.

Nic, therse are not lonely bitter people who answered your questions and no one is being mean, just realistic. Most people here are busy professionals who love to travel and take the time to help others. Your sister and her friend will be fine, and safe even if they are small and pretty. Lots of girls in Europe are small and pretty too, and they do not feel a need to learn self-defense. They do know to practice common sense, as should your sister. As to the logistics of trains and hotels, etc. They will figure it out. Lots os kids have done this and some countries even have a name for it ( gap year). What your sister DOES need to know about are two things the Schengen rules, and how to work legally in Switzerland. You say this fairy godmother will employ them as hotel maids, but where? It will be winter in Switzerland if they start out there. Will they be working at a ski resort? And how can the friend with joint problems actually work as a maid if she can't tie her shoes? There must be a problem with her hands. And don't let sis brush off the Schengen rules. Just because you first heard it here doesn't mean the rules aren't real. These girls really need to pay attention to this and stay within the rules. And not work illegally in Switzerland either.

Nic, one other thing,, 10,000 dollars is a good budget for 3 months, it would be hard for 6 months. Most hostels charge between 25-35 euros a night, and thats often for the dorm style rooms, which can be tiring month after month( I know when I did a 3 month trip with my friend we found we needed to stay in a cheap hotel now and then to escape the masses and shared bathrooms) . I am an old( by your standards) woman who has visited Europe solo, and I have never taken a self defence course, I do not think its neccesary, BUT I do think a reality and common sense course is needed. Your sisters willingness to believe what a bunch of other kids( most of whom likely have little to no experience in extended foriegn travel) is a bit scary, and as everyone says , she does not have a easy "in" for working in Switzerland)( how willing is her employer to do all the paperwork, and swear that she is so important and special that he has to hire her and not a EU citizen) , and she most definately has to understand the Schengen rules and act within them( she really thought it was 90 days per country?) And finally, I would prefer my daughter to travel around Europe for a few months over the States, the States is not as safe in my opinion, sure you do not have the same pickpocket issues, but google some crime stats,, you'll see.

I am actually as disappointed as my daughter that she won't be able to travel to Europe with her friends the summer after graduating from grade 12. She won't be 18 then and that is where we draw the line. I would have complete trust in her that she and her friends would be able to handle the experience. Yes, there will be hick-ups. Yes, there will be problems. Yes, they will probably run out of money at some time .... and yes, it will be a fantastic learning experience for them that will help develop their personality. The 90 day rule applies for US citizens who want to travel with their passport only. But if you are willing to do the paperwork it is not that difficult to get a tourist visa to extend your stay to 6 months. It is however much more difficult to get a work permit. Easier for Canadians as you can get a work-and-travel visa for young people that is valid up to a year (I know quite a few Canadians and Europeans who've done it). My friend's 18 year old son just travelled this past summer through Europe for 2 months. My friend didn't hear much from him throughout the time except for exactly 3 phone calls: the first two to ask for money, the third one to ask for a lot of money. He had a great time though and was safe after all. As a girl, you can feel safe as well. The biggest risks are more along the line of getting your iPhone or camera stolen in a hostel while you're not paying attention. To be honest, I am much more worried now as my daughter is changing her plans away from the Europe trip to doing a road trip from Canada towards San Francisco. My personal feeling is that that could be much more dangerous than a trip to Europe ...

If it's true what someone here said about it being easy for a young person to get a 6 month tourist visa, then that's great, although I'm not sure it is easy w/o going through some kind of a program (I looked into this years ago for a Canadian niece). And while working under the table in Switzerland would probably be more of a risk for the employer than for the workers, it's still a risk. And violating Schengen by staying over 90 days is by far a bigger risk. Disregard anything you read from people who say: "I went to Europe for 8 months in the 1970's and no one said anything." The rules have changed, and with electronic tracking and databses, I'm assuming someone violating Schengen could be marked for permanently being banned, or maybe for a set number of years. Whatever it is, it's too much of a risk, especially given that there are several non-Schengen countries in Europe that don't count towards the 90 days..

Dina - I'm Def going to look into that book. Unfortunatly I have never been overseas. But I have traveled alot and lived in many different areas of the US. I have offered to help her plan her trip but so far she doesn't really want my help. I'm getting the picture that working over there is a whole lot more difficult than she was telling me. I kinda wish she was going over and staying with a host family first and then doing her big trip (so she would have a little more experience before she is on her own) But it's not up to me. Listining to all the advice and stories is making me feel better though. Thanks for your input.

Tom - So I'm pretty sure that everyone, including the employer, had the intention of doing it legally. I remember her saying 6 months ago that her friends godmother (the one with the hotel in Switzerland) said that she couldn't get them jobs unless they got a work visa. So I'm thinking now that maybe the godmother didn't want to be mean (or crush her god-daughters dreams of Europe) but knew that there was basically no chance of them getting the visas. I really don't know, but my sister is very defensive about the whole thing so it's hard to aproach her about it. I have def looked up human trafficking just so I have a better knowledge of what it is and how often it happens. Thanks for the heads up - from what I read and what people have said on her it sounds like it is alot less likley that someone would be grabbed off the streat and it is more likley that they would be lured in somehow. Like (Ive heard) they offer Eastern Europeans jobs and then sell them into slavery. I think everyone is right a healthy dose of just being more aware would probably serve them best. Those books sound like they would be something I might be able to get them to read, I will def look into them. Thanks so much.
Just for knowledge sake, does anyone know what any of the scams are to lure those girls before they sell them off?????

Zoe - Thanks. It has really been so helpfull to talk to so many people who are so knowledgable and willing to help. I will get those guides, they sound like books I could get two teens to actually look through!! They do have smart phones, thanks for the tip, I'm sure my mom wouldn't be too happy about a thousand dollar bill! So just FYI (for me) are there any data plans (phone/text also) that are good or remotely reasonable for use in Europe? (Question for anyone!!) It sounds like theft is more what they need to be wary of. Which it sounds like they may be able to avoid by paying attention, and doing the right things with their belongings (ie money in a money belt, camera not out in the open, etc...kinda common sense stuff when you visit any big city or place you havn't been before!) Does anyone have any tips of what to look out for to not be pick pocketed or robbed, or what to do with your stuff while your in a hostel, should you ever leave any belongings in a hostel while you sight see for the day?? (Questions for anyone!!) Thanks

Robert - Ya, we actually have some family in Ireland so I'm going to suggest that maybe she spend some time between there and the UK so she can stay a little longer. The only reason I worry about Europe is that I, personally, have never been there, and therefore can't warn her what to look out for. I have travled all over the US, by myself and with friends, and there have been times when I have not felt so safe but have just used common sense to get out of the situation (I have never been robbed or pock pocketed in my life). Plus I usually know where the "bad parts" of the city are and avoid them. Thats just something I can't tell her to do because I don't know where those areas are. That and the fact that they don't know the language kinda makes me a little nervous. I guess I'm just going to have to go to Europe one of these days so I can see for myself. Thanks. Karen - Thanks, I'll try!

Wow, Nic! You have gotten some snooty responses, and I don't know why. Your posts haven't been frantic, hysterical, shrieking, nor smothering, yet they've been received as such. Yes, I re-read your posts, too. You sound concerned because your sister obviously has no idea what she's doing. She's spouting some really bad info, is traveling with a friend who's having severe and unexplained health issues, doesn't sound very streetwise, not particularly mature-sounding, isn't interested in preparing, etc. I'm concerned for her!
The one concern of yours that I'll address is the need for a self-defense class. If she really gets herself into a situation where she needs to use her self-defense training, it probably won't do her any good. If she's planning to go to night clubs, bars, etc. and drink, she can get herself into a world of hurt - especially if she and her friend don't stick close to each other. Her main concern will be pickpockets; she has to keep that moneybelt on. Her passport is her ID, and her 'visa' for legally being in whatever country she's in. If she gets into a jam and calls your parents, are they the type to help or tell her to 'figure it out'? Or, will she call you? She'll need a bank account with an ATM card (preferably two cards in case one gets eaten, lost) to get money. (cont.)

(cont.) If she overstays her 90-day Schengen visa, is she aware of how many hundreds of €€€ her fine will be before she's allowed to leave the country? And that she may not be allowed back in, at least not for many years? Depending on the type of cell phone she uses, she could rack up tens of thousands of $$$ over a three-month period if she doesn't know what to do to prevent that. I, too, strongly suggest that the two travelers and you buy and read cover to cover "Europe Through the Back Door"! Also, direct them to the "Rick on TV" tab at the top of this page and watch some videos of European destinations - especially the 3-part Travel Skills programs (the updated version of these come out this fall). Of course, they just have to get out there and sink AND swim ;-) Prepare for the worst, hope for the best...

Sasha - I was refering to one (posibly two) people, not everyone and what they said was neither realistic nor helpful. Although, I am very thankful to everyone else for giving me such great advice. Obviously they will have to figure it out since no amount of advice from me or anyone else could possibly cover every situation they will encounter over there. II'm just really looking for advice on the big/obvious stuff. I replied to Tom (I think) above about the working thing, like I said I think everyone wants to do it legally, not under the table. But that is a good question that I have asked myself many times, I'm not exactally sure how her friend (who can't tie her own shoes) is going to work as a maid. I have tried to ask her this but I get the feeling that they (both girls) hope the condition will go away by the time they leave instead of dealing with the reality of it now. I think I will actually print out two copies of the Schengen rules for them, btw does anyone know where the best place to find a consice listing of the rules would be? Thanks.

I don't like the idea of focusing too much on the human trafficking, as I think although it IS a real problem, its not as prevelent as some movies make it out to be. Still its good to have an idea of what to watch out for.
I think the warning bells and red flags should go up when there are job offers, too good to be true, with good pay and no hassles about a working visa . The girls most likely caught up in this are young, and poor, from eastern europeon countries, and the promise of well paying jobs is too tempting for them, so off they go, only to discover that they have their passports and id taken and they have to "work" for their freedom.. and we know what kind of work that is.. I think the situation the girls have to be the most wary of is getting drunk in bars and making bad choices. They are young, not experienced at drinking( so will likely go overboard at first) and while I don't see terrible dangers, I can see terrible regrets..They must remember to always stay together, watch they never leave their drinks unattended( while dancing etc) and not getting totally wasted so that they are staggering home.These things are the same as here really.

Pat - I kind of figured that the whole hostel thing could get old after a while. I will work on her to make a more realistic budget. I wish I could give them a crash course in common sense, she does need it. Does anyone have any advice on how to do that exactly? I realize common sense is just that, common. But I think her biggest problem is actually being able to pay attention. She thinks I am trying to scare her when usually I am just trying to teach her to be more aware. Again (from another post), not that I think Europe is such a scary place, I just think that anytime you go anywhere new you have to be aware. Ya, it bothers me too that she just takes what everyone else says as fact. I'm not so sure about her employer doing all that (read my last couple of posts) I would love it if she traveled around the states first actually, I have actually tried to get her to do that. I have traveled all over without once having had anything happen, this includes sleeping in my car and camping out. Again, I guess it's just your perception and experience.

Beatrix - Ya it is pretty cool that she is going, and raising all the money on her own. I do admire her for that. And I'm sure she will, most likley, be ok. I just wanted her to be more prepared. So does anyone else have input on the tourist visa, because from what I have been told, it is much harder to get??? (Question for everyone!) See all about the work permit in previous posts. Ya, I get it that your friends son only called 3 times, but he is also a he, and by proxy is safer from many of the worlds evils. Sufice it to say, if she does that I will not be very happy!! I did wonder what the best way to not get your stuff stolen is (also in above posts) any tips?? (Question for everyone) Your daughter will have a great time in San Francisco, don't worry! I used to wander around that city at night at 13 years old. Make sure she goes to Fishermans Warf and tries all ther fresh seafood, and to Hayte street - fun shopping.

Robert - I'm curious about that too and put it too the other posters, how easy/difficult is it to get a tourist visa. I was under the same assumption. I replied above about the working thing, I don't think they want to do it illegally, (my sister or the employer) but I will def make sure of that. Ya and staying longer sounds like a much bigger risk than, I assume, my sister wants to take. Thats funny because I keep thinking the same thing (about people giving advice who went 30 years ago) Thanks for the help.

Hi Everyone - because of all the great info I have been getting it has actually led me to a few more questions I would love to get your info on. They are peppered throughout the posts above (if you have a chance) I would love your input. Thanks

Nic, Something I've thought about that is quite impressive, if anything your sister working and saving is doing something positive, that is she is building a great work ethic, to save and stay focused on a goal is something positive that will serve he well throughout her life, who knows maybe after saving a lot and realizing how hard it was to do so maybe she won't want to spend the money! I was also thinking about something earlier in your post and came back to respond about it because it had not been discussed prior, but I'm glad to see it has finally come up, that is the friends health. If she, her family and her doctor have been dealing with this for a year this trip may never get off the ground. I know it's something you have absolutley no control over, do you have any idea what her parents thoughts are about this, the trip that is, and not just what your sister tells you have you or your parents talked to them? As you and others have stated with her condition she isn't going to be able to work if she can't use her hands and is not able to fully bend over, it goes without saying being a maid is a highy physically demanding job and if shes not able to do it someone who hired her to do it isn't going to keep her around very long (does this person know about the medical condition?), after all they were looking for cheap labor, so one of two things will probably happen she and your sister will be sent packing or your sister will have to pick up the slack which leads to a difficult traveling relationship. And if she needs medical treatment while there what she is accustomed to isn't going to happen, that is mom and dads U.S. health plan isn't going to pay for it, and not being a citizen she will have to pay out of pocket. Their employer isn't going to be able to provide her with any type of medical benefit, others that live or have worked in Europe can give you better insight on this.

Here's a link to the Graffiti Wall's Tourist Scam Alert page to explain some of the more common scams in Europe: http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/graffiti11.html I would strongly suggest they each carry a basic phrase book (I really like the RS 3-in-1 for amount of info and conciseness). If they need to visit a doctor, buy a train ticket, file a police report, etc., RS's book could be very helpful. Besides, they should learn a bit of the European languages, but they don't absolutely need to. What is their plan if the friend's condition worsens? Is she taking medication? She'll need to know how to plan for that (she can't just waltz into a pharmacy and get a refill). Also, do they know clearly the TSA rules for flying, both in the USA and Europe? (of course, the TSA is for the USA only...you get my meaning) What will your sister do if the friend backs out for any reason? Go anyway? Are they planning on buying rail passes? Do they know that with a rail pass you can't 'just hop on the train and go' anymore in most places? If they are caught on the bus/metro without a properly-validated ticket they can be fined €60 On The Spot? Not having the cash on them won't help; the police will take them to an ATM machine :-( (cont.)

Pat pretty much described how people get ensnared into human trafficking. Someone offers a job and claims they will pay for the transportation and the visa. The mark then arrives to learn that they are in debt for the transportation costs, their passport gets confiscated, and they get threatened with all sorts of nastiness (beatings, deportation, rape, etc) if they seek help from the police. The victims tend to be poor and from poor countries, so they're less likely to be able to contact their family back home, and the family is less likely to have any influence to launch an appeal for help. It IS a real problem, although as noted, few (if any) of the victims in Europe probably come from the US. But still, before they accept an offer that sounds too good to be true, they need to think about this in the back of their head.

(cont.) Many of the questions you've asked are covered in ETBD, and that's why it's been recommended for all three of you! Lots of good info...AND peruse the rest of the Graffiti Wall for tons of other tidbits. I'm not trying to scare them away from their trip, but they've got to be prepared. They're going to make mistakes, MANY mistakes, so the more prepared they are, the better. Even The Pros mess up - big time, sometimes! - but they know how to set things right. I hope they take their trip, and have a fantastic time, too! All three of you are welcome to post here as often as you'd like! Perhaps they'd feel more comfortable asking questions themselves anyway...and not feel like you're doing it for them. Ya know ;-)

Some of what you've read has bothered you, come across as cold and uncaring, what that can best be discribed as is tough love. About every month or two there is a post on this board similar to yours, that is someone wants to go to Europe to live and work but haven't done the homework to realize how difficult it is. There are people on this board that worked years to reach that goal, jumped through hoops, filled out tons of paperwork and waited and waited till their dream came through. Most if not all the people that ask for advice in this regard are looking for a quick way of doing it, that is being cheap labor. It does sound romantic when one is sitting on their couch in the comfort and safety of their home, who at the age of 18-22 doesn't want an adventure? One of my all time favorites was a young woman who wanted info on how her and her boyfriend could spend a year, their plan was to work on farms that provide room and board in exchange, those programs exist but they are also highly physical jobs and to be quite frank who would want to do it for a year except for a real farmer? Her plan was to work a farm in one country for a month or so, save some money then move on to another farm in another country, in other words spending all their time working and not enjoying Europe for what it is, the romance of that will wear off quite quickly, I think your sister and her friend will find this out too, from the sounds of it they have no idea of their working conditions, how many days a week they'll be required to work, their living conditions, what is provided and what is not. They would best be served to forget about working and just spend the time traveling, and being that is will be winter that will have to be taken into account too. As I said earlier here is a post that came up today if you haven't seen it "Schengen area, how long can I stay?" Its on this same page of General Europe.

As someone who studied and traveled in Europe for six months at age 19, I know that this is doable. I also know that despite my going as part of a University program, my parents worked on some additional ideas. One, that we'll laugh at today, was that they gave me an American Express Card. Back in those dark ages students did not have charge cards! But the idea was that if I ever got into trouble, and could not find a hostel or safe place to sleep that was affordable, I was to head for a high end hotel and plop down that card. I never did use it--came close in Athens though. ; ) Second, my parents had work colleagues and friends who lived in Europe. I had a list of addresses and phone numbers in several countries and if I needed help I was to call them. In fact, that's what I did in Athens. My parents did let these people know about my trip. Third, I carried with me a letter that my dad had written, that described who I was and said that it I was in trouble, to please contact him, but also a work colleague. Basically, today, it's an ICE letter. (In Case of Emergency.) We're a more connected world today, but it still might be worth identifying a small, but personal network of contacts in Europe. You may have some through work, your parents may also, think about college professors, you'd be surprised how many people have contacts around the world. Pam

I want to clarify my self defense class advise. I don't think a 100 lb woman is going to do some secret martial arts move and get away from the 250 lb rapist. The classes are like lawyers. You don't use one to get you out of trouble; you use one to keep you from getting into trouble in the first place.

If they are going in three months from now, it is probably too late to apply for a long-stay visa, if they could even get one ( which I doubt). So if they want to go for 6 months they should plan on spending three of them in Ireland and the UK ( they don't have to be consecutive, they can break it up but the totals in the Schengen countries ( most of continental Europe) cannot exceed 90 days within 180 days. They should also look at shortening the list of countries they want to visit. Train travel costs money, or are they thinking of youth rail passes? And they should forget about working in Switzerland unless they get firm details and a commitment from the employer that it will be legal, with a work permit.

Nic, are your sister and her friend aware of how short the hours of daylight are in Europe in December, January, February and on? And how grey the skies are a lot of the time? The days will be very short for somebody from Reno and in much of Europe they can go for days on end sometimes without seeing the sun. They may be lucky, or maybe not. Of all the things you have brought up, the most worrying to me is the health of the friend. If she can't bend, how can she possibly do the maid thing? Making beds, cleaning toilets, vacuuming, dusting and wiping high and low, cleaning under beds, etc. I can't see it. Then will your sister have said that she would do the work for both? Then, when they have made money or have a day off, how much will the friend slow down your sister? Or stay behind so your sister is on her own?

(cont.)
I know for a fact that she did not know about all the fines she will have to pay if she stays past 90 days. That is a very good point, and I'm sure she would be devistated if she couldn't go back to Europe for a long time. The cell phone is something I will have to discuss with her and my mom because I know my mom, and it would not go ever well for her to rack up a few hundred dollar bill let alone a few thousand. The books will def be read if I have to read them to them, thanks for the tips about the videos I will take a look. Thats a good moto to live by, Prep for the worst, hope for the best - that way nothing (or very little) is a surprise. Thank you so much for your info!!

Pat - I'm not too terribly worried about the human trafficking but like Eileen said; prepare for the worst, hope for the best. I just want her to be aware of the bad things that can happen so she can steer way clear of them. Like I said in my previous post, them drinking to excess and getting in trouble is a big worry for me especially because of the over intoxication factor, like you said. Question for everyone; is there anyway to better prepare them for the possible bar scenarios they may face?

Barry - It is impressive that she is working so hard to earn the money and has not given up on her goal. I do try to tell her that too because I think she should feel very proud of herself for doing it. About her friends health, so there are probably a few things I should clarify. The friend has full use of her hands but cant bend down (either because of her back or because she can't straighten her legs all the way) to tie her shoes. She actually works as a ski instructor in the winter (she did last winter anyway) and as far as my sister has told me she can do everything but put her boots on and she needs help getting up if she falls. As far as I'm aware no one yet knows what it is that she has, but its some kind of sever stifining of the joints, and for some reason it seems to be a sore subject. When I have asked my sister about it (for the last year) she usually gets kind of upset with me, but the one time I did press her she said that she didn't exactly know what was going on (with her friend) because when she asks(the friend) about it she doesn't like to talk about it. Not a great answer, but thats all she has ever given me. I know the friend was going to physical therapy once a week and now they are sending her up to Washington for some kind of treatment in the hopes that that fixes it. I know that this may end their trip together if they can't figure it out (at least I hope it does - not because I don't want them to go but I would worry about her friend for the same reasons you and Eileen have brought up) Unfortunatly I have not talked to her parents at all and I don't think my mom has either (although I'm not sure). The medical treatment is a huge issue that until you brought it up, I hadn't given full attention to.

Eileen - I'm going to check that thread out right after this, thank you. The phrase book is a great idea, do you know of any good ones or are they all pretty much the same? Would I get it at a Barnes and Noble? (Question for everyone) I just added a lot of info about the friend in my previous post but I'm pretty sure she is not taking medication, although I think she is still going to a physical therapist at least once a week. I have no idea what they will do if her condition worsens, heck, I don't even know what they will do if it worsens here let alone in Europe! When I have tried to ask what my sister will do if her friend can't go she just says, "stop talking about it, she will be fine" Sometimes I wonder (and worry) if her friends condition isn't more serious than she is letting on or even knows!!! I'm not sure I know what the TSA rules are so I'm sure she doesn't. When you say the rules for flying, do you mean what is legal for them to take and things like that, or are you refering to some other rules? Honestly I don't know what she will do if her friend backs out, I don't think she would want to go by herself - but maybe. They are planning to get a rail pass, and again, I'm pretty sure she does not know you can't just get on it any time you want (I think they liken it to our local bus) or that you can be fined for doing it. They obviously need the ETBD. That is def what I will aproach them with is just simply trying to get them to be more prepared. I wan't to tell her about these posts but I have a feeling she will be very cross with me, I don't think she will see it as trying to help. But with all the amazing knowledge on her, I do think she will need to look at it! Maybe I'll take her to sushi first, lol! Thanks so so much! :)

Tom - Thanks for the info, that is good to know!
Barry - I totally understand how answering the same questions over and over could get old. I guess me asking for my sister is sort of a unique situation and I really appreciate everyone giving me there tips, advice, info, and stories. I guess all I can hope is that my experience can help someone else, or that all the great info everyone is posting is now available for others to look at and maybe it will help them. It's funny because I said the exact same thing to my sister, I told her, why don't you spend less time there and enjoy every minute instead of trying to work to stay longer? As much as I've heard from them they really have no idea of their working coditions, duration, pay, expences, living quarters, basically nothing. More things I have to get these girls to think about, although from the sound of it, I'm not sure they will be able to work there at all (and that may not be a bad thing!!)

Pamela - We had def thought about the bank accounts (I had anyway) although I'm not sure what bank she should use? The ICE letter is also good advice, do you still think it would be good in the form or a letter, or would something else be more appropriate now? (Questions for everyone) I absolutley love the idea of the contacts over there. I had thought about it a little, but I like your idea of puting together a list in (or close to) everywhere they will be going and someone who could help them. My boyfriend and I started talking about it, and your right, we instantly figured out that we have dozens of contactacts in Europe (although some are a little farther removed than others!) Thank you so much for that invaluable advice! ;)

Short answer: My younger daughter moveed herself to France for her junior year of high school. My contribution was taking her to the airport and sending money every periodically. She came back, eventually. She already spoke French, but judging by the amount of money I sent every periodically, she went a lot of places where she didn't speak the language. (This was pre-Schengen - - my suspicions were confirmed by a bunch of passport stamps.) She came back, eventually.

Nic, I'm not sure about local bank accounts. When I was there I had an actual residence provided by the school. Today, though, with ATM's I'm not sure that it's necessary. BTW she should get a European cell phone and not buy one here. Someone else here may have a suggestion as to whether or not it would be best to get UK phone or one from another country. Once she has that phone, she can you the phone number. She can use Skype for calls home, and use the cell for emergencies home and to make local calls. Pam

Karen - I totally understand what you mean (I said it in an earlier post) the point of it would be to open their eyes and make them more aware of what is going on around them. Nice quote!
Sasha - I assumed it would probably be a process that would take longer than they have to get accomplished. Thats too bad, but they needed to know that stuff long before now and should have done the research! I think the list of countries is too long too, I think they are thinking of the countries more like states in the US (just guessing here) and they don't realize the hastle and expense of going between. They do want to get a Euro Rail pass. I agree, hopefully if I show her all these great posts she will realize she has alot of details to firm up! Thanks

It might make you feel better if she has an AT&T iphone which you can add international texting to for a relatively cheap amount. Its about $10 for 50 outgoing texts from Europe and all incoming texts to her are free. Phone calls are also not too bad in case of emergency. I can understand your worry (especially given the fact that you have not been to Europe) You say you wandered around SF at a young age...many people would freak out over that, so I think a lot of it is your unfamiliarity with what seems to be a more scary place. You might also feel better if you have a passport yourself just in case someone needed to go rescue her...not likely, but it might make you feel better. Somehow I am sure she will figure it all out and learn a whole lot and hopefully have the trip of a lifetime.

Nic,
You asked for stories and advice. You've gotten tons of good advice. Here's a story. I spent 6 mos. in Europe as a 19 y/o "slim blond" (ah, those were the days!), pre-Schengen, with a youth hostel card, a Eurail pass, a tattered copy of Let's Go Europe, and a cute friend. We had the time of our lives figuring out how to manage ourselves abroad. Did everything go perfectly? No. Did boys pester us? Yes. Did we end up in some weird and potentially dangerous situations? Yes. Did we figure it out and do just fine? Yes. I think your sister's idea to go is fantastic (with a little fine-tuning). Everyone needs to find a way to flex their wings as they grow up and this is a wonderful opportunity for her to learn about the world and herself in a relatively safe place. As the mother of a 16 yr old now, I agree with the poster who said she was more worried about a road trip in N. America than touring Europe. There are still plenty of vigorous old ladies in Europe who will give a young man what-for if he's bothering a cute girl! I'm not trying to whitewash anything. I just wanted to let you know that lots of teens travel in Europe and do just great. In fact, such trips can be life changing/life-defining for many, including me. They foster independence, resilience, adaptability and offer unequaled educational opportunities. You sound like a sweet brother for caring about your sister's safety. I encourage you to support her dreams!

This does not apply to todays world, but a few decades ago when some of us were young travellers phone calls were so expensive and difficult to do that on my 3 month trip abroad I called home exactly twice! We used to write postcards.. lol
So nowadays its so easy, people can talk or text or email daily( but frankly I don't know why they would need to!) .

OK, I just re-read some of the responses and see more red flags. They have been planning this trip for 6 months and were probably told by the godmother that they would ned work visa. But they haven't done anything about that. Sis is defensive when you bring up issues and won't listen to any advice you give her. Yet obviously the girls are unprepared as they didn't know about Schengen rules. Now you are asking about data plans they could use with their Smartphones. What reason do you have for thinking they will listen to your advice? If they don't get it right, using data can end up costing thousands of dollars, not one thousand, but many.

I doubt that a girl with unsolved/untreated medical problems will end up making a 6 month trip. If I were you I'd become the very excited and supportive sibling so she'll include you in her plans. Tell her you had your doubts but are now living vicariously through her. Then if it becomes a short trip or no trip, you're still in her good graces. If it is a long trip, you've been able to help more.

I've been reading all of these responses and the funny thing is, the actual travelers aren't here. Nic, I'm going to say something and please don't take this as a negative or a dig, it's not. Could it be possible that your sister feels you may be hovering too much and trying to do too much? (Most 18 year olds are screaming for independence.) It sounds like she wants to fight you on everything you bring up. Try some reverse psychology and let her do it. (And let's face it, you haven't traveled overseas so you really don't know what to expect either.) Instead of trying to do everything, I suggest doing the following three things: 1) Point her to this website and perhaps the one at Lonely Planet. 2) Go out and get her a copy of "Europe Through The Back Door" and give it to her as a present. No need to lecture about it. It's a great generic book on how to travel around Europe for all ages. I agree the specific country guidebooks are geared to an older crowd but ETBD is for all ages. 3) If you have any friends who have traveled around Europe, see if they would be willing to sit down with your sister and talk to her about it. Information not coming from you, in case there is sibling rivalry, might be more accepted from someone else. And then step back. She'll either sink or swim.

FrankIIs post is good. Mind it.

Nic, You can order Rick Steves' books ("ETBD", phrasebooks, guidebooks) from this website, B&N, Amazon, or pick them up at pretty much any bookstore. (I posted several direct links, but apparently links aren't working right now!) They may want separate phrase books for each language...but prolly not ;-) I would suggest a much shorter trip - a month or so. Is either one of them planning on attending college at some point, or do you know their plans? While you're at it, get their books, too - then continue being cautiously encouraging! The friend thing doesn't sound encouraging, though. Chances are, there won't be a trip... BTW, do you know what the friend's parents say about the trip and their daughter's health?!? (NOT what your sister says they're saying)

FrankII has made some very good points. It would be worth while contemplating them...

To cut to the chase, here are some critical, brutal truths: 1. No way are they going to be able to stay more than 90 days.
2. No way are they going to be able to work legally. These are hard-and-fast, cold, objective facts. This is reality. They are not going to find some loophole around these limitations, period. She doesn't want to hear this? Fine. Then be prepared for the consequences (which include huge fines, deportation, being barred from returning to the EU for a very, very long time, maybe even some jail time) - the risks are very real and very significant. If they're not willing to take those risks (and I sure wouldn't), plan accordingly. That should set the parameters of their trip to something more realistic. 90 days is a very long trip - longer than most people ever get to do. Their $10k budget should be fine for 3 months if they're frugal. They will learn a bit about themselves and about life on a 3 month trip (hopefully not too painfully). Give them the benefit of these hard truths and then let go - if they ignore all common sense and are determined to make their lives into a train-wreck, you won't be able to stop them. Wish them well and good luck.

...Continued 9. I was a little older when I traveled in Europe (21, since most hotels have a minimum age required to check-in)and it wasn't too hard to navigate it. I usually go to a city armed with just a list of things I wanted to see and do, a travel guide and I book the hotel a few days before arriving. I also research the transportation system there since I don't have a driver's license. 10. I have to admit though that I have previously traveled to Paris, Rome, Florence, Venice and Athens as part of an academic travel program of my boarding schools. My first school was located in Gstaad/Saanen, in the German-speaking canton of Bern. My upper school is located in Lugano in the Italian-speaking canton of Ticino. Both schools instructs in the English language, so I never learned any of those two languages. I took Spanish as my foreign language. And even though I know practically nothing about the French language, I got by when I went to Marseilles, Provence and Monaco, with a little help from a phrase book. 11. Make an In Case of Emergency booklet for her, containing all contact information of friends and family, contact information of all US Embassies in her itinerary, search for emergency numbers (police, ambulance, fire department, etc.) for every city she might go to. 12. Might be useful to print out a TSA Checklist of what you cannot put in your carry-on baggage. 13. As for phone: I use a basic prepaid phone/pay-as-you-go phone and I activate my international roaming so I can receive messages and call in case of an emergency. 14. Oh and remind her to never use hotel phones.

Perhaps a bit too late, but to add to the already plenty of great advice, here's my two cents: 1. Be supportive, even if she's not receptive to your advice or may seem dismissive, she'll think about what you've said. 2. It'd be expensive but I recommend getting a travel insurance. Especially since the friend already has a pre-existing condition. My parents got me one when I traveled all over America and Europe. Definitely worth it as I caught a bug in South America, at that time, I was 18, I was imagining the worst, maybe malaria or dengue fever because I had a few mosquito bites. So I went to a hospital in Brazil. I laugh about it now. 3. Don't worry about the language, just give them a phrase book. It's enough to learn how to say thank you, please, hello, May I have..., just a few phrases as common courtesy. 4. Before I discovered Rick Steves' books, I carry the small Top 10 travel guides by D.K. Or the Day-by-Day series from Frommer's. I think it's better for the younger travelers. But Rick's books are invaluable to me now. 5. A short self-defense class would be useful. 6. Her first time around Europe, it would be best to stay on the tourist cities for now. She has time to explore Europe in depth when she gets more travel savvy. 7. Make use of Skype. Skype didn't exist when I traveled to US and Europe and my parents allowed me to travel alone on one condition: I email them everyday when I get back in the hotel. 8. Keep her bank account info: Account number, Routing Number, etc. in the event that she runs out of cash. My parents always deposited cash in my account before I run out. To be continued...

Nic, One thing that hasn't been mentioned much is the flights over and back. I only recently started flying standby because my son is a pilot. The girls need to be aware that if they have some magic way of going standby, they must take carry on luggage only. I say "must" because they don't want a checked bag to go to Amsterdam or wherever without them, and there's a very good chance that they may not get on the plane the first flight they are listed on. As we know checked baggage can get lost, too, so if they take any meds, they need to go with them on the plane. Limiting themselves to carry on luggage will be a big advantage when traveling by train in Europe, but they will have to abide by TSA type rules both going and coming back for the flights. My husband and I saw an elderly German guy strip down to his skivvies in Frankfurt last year because something kept beeping as he was scanned. In Seattle this past summer we saw a woman fight with the TSA guys because she said lotion was not a liquid and that she didn't have to limit the amount to 3 oz (100 ml) in her carry on bag. She lost. And we learned something -- at least that TSA agent at SeaTac said that if it makes a puddle when it's out of the container, it's a liquid. I totally understand about your sister wanting to avoid doing the research and just depend on her friends for her information. We have a 36-year old daughter who is the same way, even though she has access to the world at her fingertips. A professor I heard of at UTAustin called that "trading ignorances." I hope your sister and her friend educate themselves on all the issues that have been brought up here and go with good preparation to accompany their sense of adventure. They will have fun and learn a lot, but they definitely won't be in Kansas (or Nevada) anymore.

As a 20 year old, I spent a summer in Europe. My german professor arranged for me to stay with a family he knew. They got me a job for the first 2 months (I was paid under the table; boring file clerk stuff, but it helped improve my german.) I then spent 4 weeks traveling on my ownpretty much just Germany and Austria. I also made a side trip to Berlin and East Berlin (still the cold war period). I was fine; granted, I spoke some German and I had done sleep-away camps and traveled a lot in the U.S. So I was very proficient on doing things on my own. First of all, it is much easier now than when I did it. I took a fair amount of cash with and changed it to Deutchmarks when I got there. I had a lot of common sense about having that much money. Your sister though has the advantage of ATMs which I did not. She has the advantage of cell phones and skype that I did not. She had the advantage of internet/iphones that I did not (It was 1988). I also think 3 and a half months was plenty for me. It was not that I was homesick, but I reached a point where I was "done" traveling and living abroad and was craving some familiarity (Doritos, COLD milk, football, etc.). So she may want to consider paring down the time (also with Schengen rules, she can only stay so long). For their first time, 6 months could really wear them down. I'd recommend that they get a job ahead of time. It'd be very hard to find one if you just arrive and start looking in Switzerland. Or an alternative is save their money and just backpack in 2 or 3 countries for 3-4 weeks. Really enjoy their time. Another option they may like is a semester abroad as part of a school program. I got several credits for my summer in Germany.

Good post, Deb. Yes, some the present travel advantages didn't exist back then, such as ATMs. I can relate totally with your traveling there ( not the work experience part), since I was over there in Germany in the summer of 1987 six weeks incl. flying the Hannover-Berlin-Tegel corridor, crossed over to the East at Bahnhof Friedrichstrasse, the first time not part of a tour...a sharp contrast, mandatory minimum money exchange, etc. (West) Berlin held its 750th celebration that year.