Help a Europe 1st Timer

Don't assume that just because you're using miles you can't go open jaws - I do virtually all my trips using FF miles and almost always go open jaws. Explore all your options for using your miles (most people waste their miles - do your homework, not here - there are experts on using Delta miles online with blogs and websites, find them). I also suggest you stop referring to the day you fly to London as "Day 1" of your trip. It's not. Your trip really begins the day after you arrive in Europe, and it ends the day before you fly home (no matter what time your flight is). You have an 11 day trip (unless I'm miscounting). Consider flying into London, train to Paris, fly to Rome, then fly home from Rome (or reverse order). That way, there's no back-tracking and no wasted time. The train from London to Paris helps you avoid all the airport security hassles and using it you get back part of a day that you would otherwise lose by flying. On a trip that's so short (and your trip is very short, you need to eliminate all inefficiencies. Hope that helps a bit - good luck!

With the time you have, I personally would just do London and Paris. Rome is great, but you are young and have lots of time to hit Italy!
You will find so much to see and do in these 2 cities that you will not want to leave. If you could go in late spring or early fall rather than summer I recommend it, but whenever you can go is fine. You should read a good guidebook that describes the major sights of both cities and decide what interests you -- is it art, architecture, history, shopping, cafe culture?, etc. Knowing this will help people give you specific meaningful recommendations.

I agree with the points above. Don't assume you can't do an open jaw unless someone at Delta tells you that. Generally they are permitted. Also, for a trip this short, I would do just London and Paris (actually, I'd probably prefer London and Rome). You may want to consider dropping one location and save it for next time. Assume that you will be back to Europe sooner than you think. Although 3 days in London sounds like a lot, you will be tired and jetlagged, so the first location on your trip always suffers. There are enough blockbuster sights in these cities to keep you busy, so anything you can do to stretch your time will help.

Josh, as much as I love Rome, only doing London and Paris may be the best use of your time. That way you will be able to do a side trip Versailles from Paris and maybe a side trip from London. TC

Thanks for the comments everyone, this is exatly what we're looking for. Obvioulsy it's personal preference and up to us, but if you were in our shoes, how would you recommend allocating the trip? Would you do days 2-7 in London and then 8-12 in Paris or Rome?? Any side trip recommendations? If you had to choose between spending 4-5 day sin Paris or Rome, which would you choose?

Just to agree with the advice you've gotten, which is excellent. Start thinking in terms of nights, not days. By my count, you have 11 nights in Europe. Remember that when you change cities, you lose a half day to a whole day. Now you see why we're recommending you cut this back - particularly if you can't get open jaw flights. I think you can do any two of your three cities nicely; you can do all three, but it will mean some rushing. Do not backtrack, as you just don't have time. Connect Paris and London by Eurostar train (just don't call it the "chunnel"). As long as London and Paris are next to each other, you can do the cities in any order, dictated by where you get your trans-Atlantic flights. In other words, London-Paris-Rome is just as good as Rome-Paris-London, but don't do London-Rome-Paris, as this requires two flights instead of one. Flights take much more time than the train; you have to get to and from the airports and arrive in time for check in formalities (the Eurostar has these too, but they're much shorter). As for what to cut, that's tough. If you have the money, I might say go for 3-4 nights in each city. This will just be a taste, but an exciting one. Do be sure to have 4 nights in your first city, since the day of arrival is often a jet-lagged haze. If money's an issue, definitely cut one of your cities, as moving around costs. Since this is your first trip, start by getting Europe Through The Back Door, for lots of help with the "nuts and bolts" of travel. You can also watch Rick's TV shows on Hulu and YouTube, if you need help narrowing down destinations. Once you've decided where you're going, you'll want to get Rick's specific country or city books for each destination, so you can plan how you will spend your time, where you'll stay and eat, etc.

One minor correction I'd suggest to the otherwise good advice above: Don't assume you can't do an open jaw unless someone at Delta tells you that. No! You can not believe what Delta's (or any other airline's) call center agents tell you. When it comes to using your FF miles, the people you talk to (usually in India or the Philippines) are among the worst informed, and least motivated to ensure you can really get the best value out of your miles. You need to figure out how to make your flights work, then (and only then) do you call the airline and then spoon-feed them the details that you already know should work. If they say it's not possible (as they often will - what you're asking for may require more work from them rather than just using the standard, automated tools they rely on), thank them and end the call, call back and keep trying until you find someone who will follow your instructions. Otherwise, advice above is all good. As to how I would allocate my time...I'd do London & Paris, plus side short trips - the two are relatively "close" and easy to connect. Rome is the outlier and Italy has too much else nearby, save Italy for another trip. I'd probably spend a bit more time in France since I love France, but I'm sure others would favor the UK. Great side trips for a first time trip to Paris would be: 1. Normandy (Mont St Michel, the D-Day sites). Normandy is really beautiful, even apart from these "big" draws. 2. Loire Valley chateaux. Unforgettable. Either would be a nice break from the city, both are wonderful. If you don't have time for both (and you probably don't) pick one and promise to come back for the other.
The day trip to Versailles goes without saying. Have a great trip!

I don't know about Delta, but I have flown 'open jaw' using miles. I suggest you look into that more thoroughly, as that will save you time. It didn't use any more miles than round trip for me either. I like to plan my trips thinking about how many nights I will be in each place. You have to keep in mind that 2 nights = 1 full day, etc. If you have 3 nights (2 days) in 3 locations, accounting for travel time you won't see much. I would suggest you skip Rome on this trip. You will have other opportunities to go there, and maybe you would then have enough time to see Italy. If it were me I would divide my time between London and Paris. There is so much to see in each location. It looks like you have 11 nights. I would fly into London. Spend 6 nights with your friends, since you have a place to stay there. Then take an early train on the Eurostar to Paris. Spend the rest of your time there. Fly home from Paris. If you have to fly round trip, it would be easy enough to take the Eurostar back to London. In that case I would spend 5 nights in London, 5 nights in Paris, then your last night in London. Having this amount of time in each place, you will spend less time traveling and more time seeing the sights you went there for. In Paris they have a really cool program called Paris Greeters. They will match you up with a volunteer that will show you something of interest to you. There is no charge for this, although the program does accept donations. Google them to check it out. There may be a similar program in other cities.

Josh, I agree with the suggestion from Harold - your first step should be to read Europe Through The Back Door. Use the country-specific Guidebooks to fine-tune your touring in each city. You should be able to find the books at your Library or larger book stores. I have no info. on using Delta Miles, as I don't use Miles. As the others have said, you'll probably have to do your own research rather than relying on a C.S. Agent in the Philippines or India. Using open-jaw flights would absolutely be the best idea, if you can find a way to arrange it. With such a short trip, the advice to limit your trip to two cities makes sense. However, I'm going to differ from that opinion on this occasion. As this is your first trip to Europe, it's not unreasonable to try a small "sampler" of three cities and three cultures, just to whet your appetite for future trips. It sounds like you're working with the typical two-week holiday? Assuming open-jaw flights, would this work: > D1 - Depart U.S. > D2 - Arrive London, familiarization, jet lag recovery > D3 - London > D4 - London > D5 - EuroStar to Paris (book train well in advance for best fares - see This Website for details. > D6 - Paris (with daytrip?) > D7 - Paris > D8 - Paris > D9 - Flight to Rome (I'd suggest EasyJet from ORY to FCO - again book early for best prices) > D10 - Rome (with daytrip?) > D11 - Rome > D12 - Rome > D13 - Return flight to U.S. If you're not able to do open-jaw, you could fly back to London, again via EasyJet. There are issues to be aware of when travelling on budget flights or by train in Europe. If you need further info, post another note. Good luck with your planning!

Thanks for the advice so far everyone, my wife and I greatly appreciate it. I took some of your advice and looked into flying open jaw and it turns out I just didn't know how to navigate the Delta system. Thanks to the blog for "The Points Guy", we've now got that figured out! We are very torn on what exactly we want to do, whether we do only London/Paris or do 3-4 nights at London/Paris/Rome. Our initial idea was similar to Ken's advice in that we don't really know what we'll enjoy best, so if we get a small sample of 3 different cultures, that will give us a little better idea for the next trip. That being said, we also see the point many have made by only doing 2 cities. There obviously is so much to do in those two cities alone, we definitely could skip Rome. Some of the side trips recommended in France greatly seem to interest me (i.e. Versaille, Loire Valley, etc). Like I mentioned initially, we are just beginning our research on where exactly we want to go. We are definitely going to be picking up some travel books and continuing to do additional research, but any other advice on day trips, restaurants, hotels, etc., keep them coming. I do have to say, I've been very surprised how many people have referred ot this trip as "short". Maybe it's that we're both relatively young, but this 13 day-12 night trip will easily be the longest vacation of our life (our honeymoon as a 9 day trip to the Bahamas). We've just had a couple good chuckles about that. Can't wait for the day to come when we can actually take a "long" trip! Thanks again, keep the advice coming!

Josh, it's not that 11 nights is so short by itself. But, since it's your first European trip and you want to see a lot, it's short. And in the Bahamas, you're not running around seeing museums and the like; Europe is a lot more tiring, because you're on the go much more. All of my trips are as "short" as yours. But I'm very lucky, in that I get to go to Europe twice a year, for 10 nights each time. So, I've learned to cut down what I see on each trip, knowing I will return. I can also limit myself to a small geographic area, which I can usually connect by trains or buses; I've only flown within Europe a few times. I often have short stays, but in smaller cities and towns. Two days for Varenna, on Lake Como, is fine; two days in Rome is...much too short. I think a lot of posters are like me - we've been to Europe multiple times, and we're in the US and don't get a lot of vacation time. So, we know what can realistically be seen and enjoyed in a trip of your length. There's nothing wrong with a trip of this length (I've never had a longer one), but you do have to work within the limitations. And yes, it will certainly seem short once you're doing it.

You will see how short 11 days will seem. Especially since you will most likely be a bit jet lagged when you arrive. Traveling from London to Paris is easy via the Eurostar, but it will still take 5 or more hours out of that travel day. That is to account for getting to the station, going through security and customs, then getting to your hotel after arriving in Paris. With that journey you travel from city center to city center. Flying from Paris to Rome will take more time probably. I have never done that flight, but you will have to get out to the airport early enough (1 1/2 - 2 hours before your flight), then your flight time (approximately 2 hours), then travel from the airport to your hotel. Add at least 45 minutes each way to get to and from the airports. If you are looking to experience another culture, why not go somewhere closer to London and Paris. Maybe a smaller town like Bruges. That would be totally different. Or even Amsterdam is easier transportation wise. Read the guidebooks and go from there.

Josh, you're doing great. You're starting early (a full year in advance) which will help a lot, since you need to do some research before making decisions. Do the research and give it time - for many of us, the planning is an enjoyable part of European travel. Yes, this is a short trip - having traveled a bit, I've concluded that (for me and my wife, at least), it's not worth going to Europe unless we have at least 2 full weeks (14 days) there (not counting travel time) - if I lived on the US east coast I'd have a smaller minimum. 3 weeks is our minimum for Asia (it just takes so long to get there and back). But everybody has to make their own minimums. To me a "long" trip is 3-4 weeks or longer. Personally, I'd suggest sticking to England and France for this trip. This is your first time to Europe, and there are going to be some inefficiencies as you figure out how everything works. Start in England, as it's "easier" for Americans - little language barrier, lots of cultural ties and familiarity. Then go to France, and the (only slightly) greater challenges there will not be so much of a challenge. Do a couple brief day trips from Paris, but don't try to zoom off to Belgium or Holland - remember, You Shall Return. There's really great stuff reasonably close to Paris, and it makes sense to hot a few of those while you're there. If the Loire valley sounds appealing, google images for Chambord and Chenonceau. There are lots more, but those should whet your appetite. For more help wrestling with your Delta FF miles, google "deltapoints" and "blog", when there click the "Essentials" link - I think you'll find very useful info. Have fun.

I agree with David that you are better off sticking to England and France. I only suggested Belgium and Holland if you are determined to experience another culture. You will not have any trouble filling your time between the two countries. My #1 country I wanted to visit was Italy. I finally got there on my 4th trip to Europe. You just can't see it all, and time is used more efficiently when you don't have to move long distances.

Josh, it sounds as though you're still deciding between doing 2 or 3 major cities. The idea of getting a "taste" of 3 different cultures is an interesting analogy. Imagine if you were unfamiliar with three very different kinds of cuisine, you wouldn't try them all in one meal, would you? I think trying to experience three very different cultures in one vacation would be equally confusing and overwhelming. My advice is to limit your trip to 2 counries. In addition, you're using up too much time and money with each change of location. Remember, each time you are packing, checking out of a hotel, getting transportation to the train station or airport, then the actual travel time, then getting transportation to your next hotel, checking in, unpacking, and getting oriented to a new location. That's time better spent exploring. Let us know your final decision of destinations and we can suggest ways to tweak your trip.

Josh... I always fly Delta and use miles a lot. I just flew from DTW to Paris...spent a week, then from Paris to Frankfurt, spent a week, and then from FRA back to DTW (all nonstop) for 60,000 miles. You just have to be persistent and work the system. I also had to book mine on the phone as I was doing a paid ticket along with it and they needed to be linked. The 'right' agent will work with you to find what is available. If I don't like to answers I get, I just hang up and try someone new. As far as seeing 2 vs. 3 countries... you are young, I assume energetic and want to see a lot, so I am totally on the other side of this. Yes, you can spend a month in London and not see it all, but my take on it is, you might be in the position of shortly beginning a family, career choices, etc.... so you might not have the freedom lots of 'older, more seasoned travelers' have to go to Europe a few times a year. My travel philosophy is... I never assume I will be able to return, so I see what I want and if I am fortunate enough to return...lucky me. My first trip was a 'taste of' 9 countries, and I drove it. I wouldn't give up that memory for anything, and it gave me the burning desire to return (and I have). I like to travel with no regrets...so if it's 3 countries and a whirlwind trip...make every moment count.

In terms of deciding between London, Paris and Rome, think about what you like to do on vacation, and what you've done on previous vacations. If you tend to go to lots of museums, then you're heading for the right places - if you like museums, what kind of art do you like? Let that answer help inform your decisions. If, on the other hand, you usually go to the beach for your vacations, think about what you might like or not like in visiting big cities for 11 nights. Any particular kind of food that you like? I'm a big foodie, and while English food has gotten better, I still prefer French and Italian food. So for me, that would help me decide to visit Paris and Rome. Any other specific interests that either of you have? Ancient Rome - then obviously, go to Rome. Harry Potter or the English royalty? Then, London. Enjoy your planning!

Thanks again for all the help/advice everyone, it has been invaluable even as we begin the simple process of just trying to decide which cities to go to. I will say we are still contemplating doing all 3 cities, but those of you that have recommended doing only 2 cities, your advice has definitely not fallen on deaf ears. You have given us something to think about as we need to decide how "on-the-go" we want our first European trip to be. Seeing London/Paris/Rome all in 2 weeks is definitely appealing to us, but being a little more relaxed and taking in the sites a little more, as well as a couple of day trips at just London/Paris is very appealing as well. I'll be sure to check back in once we've decided what exactly our plan is and get advice on places to go, things to do, etc. Again, very much thanks to all of you that have offered your advice, we very much take it to heart. Josh

If you are determined to do all 3 the more efficient route would be London > Paris > Rome. If you have to fly home from Paris then you could go Rome > London > Paris. Why: These routes swap a plan ride for the quicker train between London and Paris.

Josh, We're leaving on a similar trip in just a few weeks. We started out with just London and Paris but I decided I wanted to add a quick 3rd city so this is our itinerary. Day 1 - Fly into London, immediate fly to Paris (during Olympics) Day 1 - Paris P.M. Day 2-6 Paris Day 6 - Train to Bruges (through Brussels, stopping for a few hours to expore) Day 6-8 Bruges Day 8 - Train to London in P.M.
Day 8-11 London We wish we had another day or two.. or a few weeks. Flying to Paris worked out better than the Eurostar timewise and was about equal cost. The train to Bruges is fast and easy and we only paid 44€ for the both of us! It looks like an amazing city and we plan it being our downtime, just strolling around and relaxing after the craziness of Paris.

Josh, you've obtained some excellent advice. But, as with most posting, both my wife and I have spent time in all three cities and I would say this. Do limit your first travel to London and Paris. Rome is another trip almost into itself for a first timer. Here's the core thought ... savor the experience of both London and Paris. Have enough time to become a "flaneur" ... the French term for the enlightened walk-around experiencer of an environment. At this point you start to engage the cities and, most importantly, the people. Sure hit the "big sights", but have the time to take time doing what life is about for the average citizen ... like a long lunch at side walk café, or shopping and visiting on the Rue Cler with the shop keepers and average Parisian. Day trips from London ... Canterbury or Bath. From Paris ... of course Versailles. P.S. In Paris get the museum passes!! .

I agree with the others. Keep it to two cities and really savour them. As for which two- well, they're all great cities, but taking the Eurostar to Paris from London would be another experience. It's usually a nice journey and certainly less hassle than flying.
Whatever you decide to do, I hope you have a great trip.

Eh, ok, I'll stick my neck out and be the outlier here. You're 28. You need less recovery from jet lag than the rest of us. LOL. On our first trip (and we were 40), we landed in Edinburgh, found our way to the B&B, slept for two hours, and then went to the castle. Walked the royal mile. Had an awesome dinner. That was day 1. Then we drove through Scotland, England, train to Paris, then Loire, then plane to Barcelona. That part took us 11 days and we loved it You can do this. Will you experience the culture quite as much? No. But you're young, excited, and want to get a taste of the three cities. Go for it. I will say we loved Loire, hated Versailles (the crowds!!!), and spent a bit of time in Rome later in the trip and it was nice but nowhere near as wonderful for us as France or the UK. But everyone has their own preferences. Have fun!!!

I would leave out Rome just because it means flying and that will eat up the better part of a day. For me, it's better to stick to two cities than "waste a day" traveling. The train stations in London and Paris are right in town - easy to get to by the subway (tube in London, metro in Paris), while the airports are out in the boonies - in Rome too. You only need to get to the train station an hour before departure and there are no security restrictions (liquids) - so have a picnic lunch (or supper) on the train. You go through passport control only when you leave London. When you get off the train in Paris, you have your luggage with you - no waiting. There are plenty of day trips from both London and Paris, but there is so much to see and do, you may never leave the city. You have plenty of time to figure out what things most interest you and then work out how to allocate your days between destinations.