Having my baby baptized at the Vatican- where should I stay??

I would suggest to stay in convent in (or close to-/walking distance/) Vatican. We stayed in Casa per ferie Santa Maria Alle Fornaci. We liked it. It's walking distance to St.Peter and about 5 minutes walk to railroad station (San Pietro or something like that). In your case would be probably easier to use train than crowded bus #64 full of pickpockets to get to central Rome. For other convents look at website: www.santasusanna.org/comingtoRome/convents.html Florence is on the way to Venice. So you either skip Carnevale or backtrack. Backtracking won't be so bad if you are flying back to US from Rome. These cities are very hectic for adults. To do it with kids I feel your pain. My advice is: use train. Car would be a very big hassle.

Andrea: Traveling with a newborn, a 2 year old, and your description of a "reluctant husband" is going to be a challenge. It sounds like you may not have driven a rental car in Italy? Many (not all) find that driving a rental car in Italy is more stressful than the easy experience of driving a rental car in the US. If your husband will have to do the driving, you may want to make sure he has some understanding of how driving a car in Italy will differ from driving here. Many travelers who rent cars in the US choose to do what the Italians do and use trains in between the big cities in Italy.

You also might want to consider staying in an apt. This will give you more space, especially with a baby and a 2 year old. Ditto the info on taking a train. Consider bringing a stroller though. Here is a website with Italian info on it, and stuff about Rome in particular that might answer some of your questions.
http://rome.angloinfo.com/countries/italy/living.asp

Another challenge: Getting accommodations in Venice and Florence, especially Venice at Carnevale time, on your €70 to €85 per night budget is going to be a challenge in Florence and even more so in Venice, especially if you want to be in Venice at Carnevale time. Venice is one of the most expensive hotel cities in Europe. If your budget can't be increased, then getting affordable lodging in Rome, Florence, and especially Venice will take some planning and effort.

WOW what great advice, thank you all for helping me. I was worried no one would respond because its a complicated help question.

Ok, so you all recommended to stay near the vatican. I found this place called B & B Roma Vaticano and since my family is going to meet us there in Rome we could conceivably rent the 3 rooms they have available, so though the bathrooms are technically not private, they would be shared with family. What do you guys think: http://www.cross-pollinate.com/new_info.asp?op=src&id=948&kind=2&city=6#

Only drawback so far is that I cannot find reviews of the place (probably because it opened less than a year ago). It fits right around in my price range and so far looks ideal. Thoughts??

To clarify my question regarding carseats, we plan on walking or taking the metro/buses as much as possible but we may need a taxi at some point and I was wondering how we do that with kids- do we have to take carseats with us just for that?? I know how taxi drivers drive, in Italy especially, so I am not exactly thrilled with the idea of holding them in our laps.

As for Venice- what if I just do Florence from the 19-24th and arrive in Venice the 24th on the last day of carnevale so we can at least see a little of it and then enjoy it when it isnt as crowded? I guess I am reluctant to abandon it entirely because its been a dream of mine to go for Carnevale. I guess I just never expected it would be with 2 small kids!

Andrea,

This is one of the most challenging questions I've seen posted on the HelpLine! It's been QUITE a while since I traveled with small children, but I'll try to add a few suggestions to the others.

You might get some good tips by reading Europe through the Back Door, especially the chapter "Travel with Toddlers to Teens". Also, check the Graffiti Wall section "Travel with Kids".

The first hurdle will be to try and impart a positive attitude for travel to your husband. The culture of Italy can be a bit "intense", especially for first timers so he should be prepared for that. Perhaps watching some of Rick's shows would help (especially on Italy). It's especially important to realize that things will be different than at home. Careful planning will be essential in order to make the trip as problem-free as possible for all.

The Hotel that Ron suggested would be a good choice. I've never stayed there, but it looks wonderful! However even with the 15% discount I'm not sure if it will be possible to stay within the US$120 per night budget. I didn't see any mention of Cribs on their website? You may have to increase your budget.

Regarding the order to visit the other cities, I'd stick with your original plan to visit Florence next. It's an easy train ride from Rome, and the scenery through Tuscany is great!

Given the budget issue and Carnevale, I might consider dropping Venice this time. Even if you were to get there during Carnevale, dealing with the crowds while trying to manage a baby and toddler (and reluctant husband) may be too much? Also, I agree with Kent in that it's not the cheapest city for accommodations.

I assume you're flying in & out of Rome? Be sure to plan your transportation carefully (good idea to read the "Rail Skills" section in ETBD), so you don't have any problems.

The baby will need to be in a car seat during air/rail transport, but not sure about the toddler?

Good luck!

Andrea,

A few additional questions and suggestions on your travel plans:

• How were you planning to get from the airport to your Hotel in Rome?

• Your travel dates are approaching fast, so it would probably be a good idea to book the Hotel soon. Although it's "off season" I always like to have at least the first stop pre-arranged. Especially travelling with children, I wouldn't want to be wandering around an unfamiliar city trying to find a place to sleep!

• Are you all sorted with respect to using ATM machines in Italy?

• Will you be taking an electrical / electronic devices with you? Do you have Plug Adapters, and have you checked whether these devices will work on 240 VAC electrical systems?

• Be sure to pack Money Belts for both you and your Husband (especially if you're going to be riding the #64 Bus or the Metro!).

• What sites are you planning to see in Rome & Florence?

• I'm assuming you were planning to buy P-P tickets for the trains? Be sure to book a direct train from Rome to Florence (no changes). Reservations will be required, but are included in the cost of the ticket. You will have an assigned car # (Carozza) and seat # (Posto).

• Try to PACK LIGHT (I know that will be difficult when travelling with two small children).

If you have any other questions, I'm sure the group here will be able to help out.

Cheers!

Honestly, I think trying to do Carnivale with 2 little kids may not be very much fun for anyone. They may be scared, it is crowded, overly expensive, and how much fun is it to push a stroller through the crowds? What's the point? Would you take your kids to Mardi Gras or Carnival in Rio? Same stuff. Loud, lots of drinking, costumes. Why not spend more time strolling casually around Rome, explore some neighborhoods, take your time. Yes, you may very well have to lug your carseats if you plan on taking taxis. But with your low budget, I would plan on taking trains or the metro.

Andrea, I LOVE your spirit and sense of determination! I am sure you have the positive attitude and sense of adventure to overcome every little obstacle. And yes, children can be a challenge to travel with, but it just makes the trip different than an adult trip, something that you'll always remember. Just think of the stories you'll get to tell over and over to your kids about what they did in the Vatican! And the best thing of all is that Italians LOVE children. You'll probably get all kinds of special attention for having your little bambinos with you. Have a fabulous, spiritually rich baptism...what a once in a life time experience! I think a lot of us would love it if you posted a trip report when you get back.

I agree, cut out Venice. It will save you money and then you can use it to get the accommodations you need to make your stay in Rome comfortable- you have money and convenience needs in your family! I think you have to prioritize, what is the most important event you will be going to there -- the baptism, right? I think you should save carnvale for another year when just you and your husband, or your older kids, can go. It will be much more fun for everyone I'm sure. Just because you can train everywhere doesn't mean you have to.

PS, when I went to Rome, I read the sections in Rick Steves Rome guidebook describing hotels, and the areas they are in, several times and made a decision-- the Hotel Du Torri. It was wonderful, (though with small rooms) but within a reasonable walking distance to the Vatican, and I'm sure it would be a reasonable cab ride for you on baptism day. It was not cheap, however, but worth it to be in a good area, close to a lot of sites. Sometimes you have to choose quality. I'm of the school of opinion that in travel, doing less often makes for a more rewarding trip.

Andrea,, you are YOUNG do not try and plan every dream of yours( Venice at Carnevale) into this trip with a reluctant hubby a toddler and an infant.. having kids does NOT mean no more travel, it does mean a bit of adapting your travel, at least till kids are a bit older.
Your hotel budget is painfully tight,, no biggie for two adults, but with kids, it will be much less pleasant.
You will have other trips to Europe,, I would cut down and simplify on this one, you want hubby to like travel, not see it as a huge hassle. I am sorry, and maybe I am being a bit negative, but your trip sounds tiring and stressful to me.

As for carseats, I liked bringing the small rear facing carseat you can just buckle into a car( you can use it in a taxi) for my chilren when they were in them, it was a great sleep place for them, if they were sleeping we could just slip put in on the floor by our feet in restos etc,, , but we only brought a big seat( the forward facing one) once, on a cruise, and it was a hassle. First off it could not be properly installed , it needed not only a seat belt, but to be correct a tether strap to rear,, Taxis do not have the bolt. It was heavy, and in small places hard to store. I do totally agree about Italian drivers though, so maybe just stick to the trains and buses.

Agree with all that's been said- Carnevale is not a children's event so i'd skip Venice this trip. I'm going back this year and found a good website for reasonable accommodation - www.monasterystays.com.They have access to monasteries and convents all over Italy but absolutely heaps near the Vatican (surprise) and many in Florence. Give it a look as monks and nuns love kids too.

Wow, Ron. You sure are a Cheerful Charlie! Did you give any thought to how your post would make Andrea feel? She can't afford your suggestion of the Gerber, though I'm sure she wishes she could, and now you've laid this whole trip on her about how inadequate her choice is and how anything that can go wrong probably will. Geez.

Good grief, Ron! My experience with B&Bs in several countries has been that the owners will bend over backwards to be of assistance to you (and yes, they will make phone calls for you). Italian B&Bs are not the Third World -- they have heat and mirrors and toilet paper.

I agree on not taking the kids to Carnevale. We just visited Venice with my 2, 5, 11, and 14 year old and that was stressful enough. Carnevale would be horrible with them.

Take a BABY car seat- the kind with handles- but not the forward facing for your 2 year old (and maybe the stroller, if it comes with one to buckle into). If you ever need a taxi, call first and tell them you need a car seat, and they will bring a booster, at least. We ended up leaving 2 very nice car seats on a train on purpose because we had so much trouble carrying them around after dropping off our rental car.

Nancy and Norma, I appreciate your defense of me but I think Ron has the right idea in at least telling me the possibilities I may encounter. My motto for this trip is to plan and be prepared, but expect to change everything! :)

Ah, Ron, you must have been so traumatized! There you were, sodden roll of toilet paper in your hand, pants around your ankles, pounding on the locked doors of the toilet paper stores. If only you could have seen what you looked like, but, no mirrors! :)

None of you have responded to the idea of going on the very last day of Carnevale so we see just a little of it and then enjoy it once the crowds have dissipated.

Another idea someone gave me was to stay in Padua and take the train in to Venice which is about 30 minutes each way.

Can you guys weigh in on these 2 ideas?

Um, I think the last day of Carnavale will be the MOST crowded of all. Is there something wrong with planning to go to Venice some day with just your husband? You do seem quite fixated on it. Just enjoy your time with your 2 VERY little children in Rome. If you want your husband to learn how to enjoy traveling, you have planned a trip that will insure that he hates it.

Ron- no I am not confused any longer... just stubborn as hell :) Since it will be a very very long time before I can go back to Italy in general, I am fixated on getting to see Venice. I am open to missing Carnevale, but not to eliminating it entirely from the itinerary.

To clarify- I will actually leave Rome after a week and then I will have 8 days in which to visit Florence and (maybe) Venice, so the 5 day thing does not apply. I would do 4 days Florence, and 4 days Venice.

My question about Florence and Venice had to do with backtracking to get to Carnevale versus going to Venice and missing Carnevale entirely. I was never confused as to whether to go to Carnevale - I was confused about when to go and where to stay (Padua versus Venice).

No one ever addressed the Padua idea. As I mentioned, I thought it MIGHT be hard with the train and all, but no one is saying anything about it, so how can I know?

Jo- Maybe I am way too optimistic, but I don't see how a week in Rome, and 4 days each in Florence and Venice are going to ensure a horrible experience for my hubby. I feel like I am allowing enough time in each city so we don't feel rushed.

In terms of the children I am fortunate that my baby is young enough to sleep in a sling all day and my 2 year old loves change and new situations/people. The difficulty I think we would encounter is in trying to coordinate us all to get places on time (say, a train). But if we leave a flexible schedule it just might work.

Andrea, what are you going to do with a baby and a toddler for four days in Venice if it is rainy?? Have you looked at average weather at time of your trip,, leisurely play days in parks or sitting at cafes may not materialize as you invision. Just a thought.

I really think travel IS great for kids, but your kids are soooo young, and you have chosen to travel( yes, I realize for another reason) in off season,, but it is off season for a reason.. its cool and rainy.. so time honored tricks of walks and park time spaced between sightseeing to keep kids happy may not be doable.
Persoanally I think you could more then see Venice in two days,, it is the most expensive place on your list of places,, so keep time shorter there.

I am sorry, cannot help with Padua idea, never been there, hopefully someone can help with that.

Andrea,

Based on the information in your last post, it's very evident how important it is for you to visit Venice on this trip. However, one concern that I have (based on the information in your first post) is the budget issue for lodgings. As many of the others have mentioned, Venice seems to be a bit more expensive for lodgings than other locations in Italy (Florence, for example although this will be better in the "off season). That's been my experience too.

I'm not sure how practical it will be to find accommodations on the last day of Carnevale, as I suspect everything will be booked solid during that period. Have you checked into availability on the dates you plan to be there? Be sure to check the Guidebooks with respect to getting from Venezia S.L. station to your Hotel via Vaporetto.

In your circumstances, I wouldn't bother staying in Padua, as it would just complicate things, something you don't need when travelling with two small children and a husband who's a reluctant traveller.

I'll try to find time over the next day or so (will be heading away on a short holiday next week) to have a closer look at your travel plans, to see if I can add some suggestions that might work for you.

Cheers!

Ron: I am full of admiration for your helpful posts for Andrea. Very gracious of you. Forgive my previous scolding.

I just got back from Europe 2 days ago and had a blast. In Florence we stayed at a really nice hotel called "Hotel Dali." It was small and had shared bathrooms, but it was cheap and the staff were very helpful and friendly. It's only about 2-3 blocks from the Duomo and great location for other sites!!

We also did a short stop in Padua on our way from Venice to Florence. If you stop there, make sure you see the scrovegni Chapelit's really amazing!

Excellent idea, Kim

In any travelling group the navigation of the trip usually falls to one person. Since your husband is reluctant, I assume you will be the navigator. The one who determines the lodging, the transportation. What train to take, how to get to the station, where to buy tickets, what platform, when to get off. Honestly, it can be exhausting herding people around while you try to figure it out. With kids under three, in a foreign language. That's why so many of us have been urging you to simplify. Even the best toddlers have bad days or get sick. The best husbands still look for reasons to say "I told you so." Plan no more than one major and one minor activity a day. Stay in no more than 2 places. Skip Venice. Maybe hubby will get a taste and want more, or maybe in 10 yrs you'll take the kids without him.

Your posting caught me by surprise because it sounds very familiar to my travel plans Jan 31-Feb 2. I am currently living in Frankfurt with my husband and my 2 month old son. We are traveling to Rome with my sister and her husband and her 2 year old son in a few weeks. We have many of the same challenges you are facing, car seats, strollers, hotels, etc. I can tell you that we just booked a 5 star hotel for $175 in central Rome. I think that's a very good deal. My biggest question for you is how did you make plans to have your baby baptized at the Vatican? We would love to have our son baptized but I cannot find any information on how to do it. Is there a long waitiing list? Do both parents have to be catholic? If you have a number I can call, I would really appreciate it.

Another tip for traveling with a newborn, I was told to bring along a baby carrier (such as a Baby Bjorn) for museums, monuments, that don't let you take the stroller in. Good luck!

Thank you so much.