Has European Travel Gotten So Much Worse?

Certain already popular places in the world are getting squeezed with greater tourism numbers, so you see more and more complaints and articles about crowding (but none really offers any new information). Paradoxically, that's a reflection of how much more accessible and affordable travel has become worldwide, and how marketing and word-of-mouth sharply skews travel to well-trodden destinations. I don't see any evidence that European travel has gotten "so much worse" unless one's definition of "so much worse" means much more crowded. Some folks also have romantic and overly sentimental notions that things should not change and always stay the same (per their favorite memory of a place they visited in the past), and that they can have their favorite city all to themselves without sharing it with other visitors. Hence the overuse of "mobs", "hordes", "maddening crowds", etc. In other words, everyone except for me. I would hazard to guess that visitors from densely populated countries/ cities would not consider Europe as "too crowded" relative to what they are used to, so there's likely to be a wide continuum of tolerance for both crowds and cultural differences when it comes to travel.

If you mean more crowded, then heck yes. That's progress! I think.

Big difference from today than when I lived in Europe during the 1980s and early 1990s.

I guess it's all relative. I don't find flying any more difficult than it used to be, and I find that having a smart phone has made getting around much easier than it was when I first started going to Europe twenty years ago.

More crowded? Maybe. I visited Portugal last year for the first time and found Lisbon and Porto more crowded than I expected.

But I've been seeing crowds in the "popular" places in Europe for a long time. My first visit to Prague was 2005, and it was quite mobbed even then. Same with Venice in 2007 - so crowded in spots than it was hard to walk around in some areas. I was just in Venice again last month and it didn't seem more crowded to me now.

I see no reason not to keep visiting Europe just because "things have changed" or "things have gotten worse." Hasn't bothered me a bit. But I do sometimes choose to avoid the most touristy places.

In terms of the "travel" portion of European travel, i'd says it has gotten much better i.e. easier and more efficient, due to the rise of high speed trains, better motor ways, and low cost flight carriers. It used to take 6-7 hr to get from Barcelona to Madrid, now just a pleasant 3 hrs on the AVE or even 1 hr flight if you can snag some good tickets.

Observations based on several trips to Europe over the past five years (mostly planned with help of RS Forum members!):

• In our instant-tech world, quick responses to emails, Facebook posts, reviews, etc. are the norm at work and at home. So, when a problem arises, it likely feels "normal" to quickly post before taking time to reflect on the situation and learn something to apply to future travels. (Or to laugh at oneself and vow to never do that again!)
• It takes time to prepare to travel. Not just packing a suitcase, but packing the brain and the heart with knowledge about the history and culture, the people and places, that will be visited. (As part of this, a few phrases in the native language-even just "good morning" and "thank you" .)

In general, more people in the world have the resources to travel. So that means more sharing of the places that trace history and development of cultural differences-AND likenesses. I can't wait to get back to Europe!

Have you ever thought about throwing in the towel on overseas travel, or gong less often? Heck no!! Sure, the experience has changed. So has most everything else in my life. I still love discovering new places, even though my pace is a lot slower. I also have a larger travel budget than I used to, so I rent cars and visit less touristed places, I have the freedom to travel when I want (retirement has its perks) so I can choose optimal times. Planning takes more time, partly because with so many more tourists, you have to book rooms, trains, tours, and sights in advance. But there's so much more information available that I make better choices and my itineraries aren't nearly as haphazard as they used to be.

And it isn't just Europe. Last summer I was in NYC and didn't enjoy being in the city nearly as much as I did in the early 1990s because there were SO MANY tourists (mostly American). In the those years, you could be alone on trails in the national parks. In recent years, the popular parks are awash with tourists and clogged with cars.

Most definitely, more people are traveling, be it in tour groups, or in private groups, regardless if it's April or June/July.

Riding the trains in Germany be they regional or ICE has gotten far more crowded, even 15 years ago or so, when I saw TV news reports about that. When I ride the regional trains RB or RE, almost half the time I expect to stand, less of a chance in the morning. Obviously, if it's not the case, I am pleasantly surprised.

These riders are all locals, not tourists when you're on the trains in eastern Germany and North Germany going out to and returning from small towns.

Even with a seat reservation in 2nd class won't help totally since the coach is so crowded that you have your seat thanks to the reservation but there are times no space is available for your luggage. The above racks are packed to the brim. Not an envious position to be in.

I don't use rental cars, not an option, rarely a taxi. I plan enough to keep the budget down...no apts either.

Going over from SFO or OAK (now), the flight has to be non-stop, only certain airports here I will agree to have a lay-over, SEA, LAX, maybe Houston? Never really asked myself if the new challenges still make the overseas trip to Europe worth it.

There are negative challenges evident regarding traveling in the last 20 years...I don't think about them, I know I'm better doing solo now than doing solo 20 years ago, especially in France, Czechia, Budapest, and Poland. Doing a trip solo in Germany regardless of duration was never a problem.

Bottom line: throwing in the towel due to these increasing negative aspects is not an option. I would see myself as a cop out. There are still a lot more places I want to see in Europe, a good deal of it not on international and US tourist radars.

As more of an off-season traveler, I've simply not experienced the kinds of crowds I read about in these news stories or hear about anecdotally (or perhaps I have, and just didn't think much of it because I expected crowds in certain places).

I think the measure of whether tourism has gotten out of hand for a particular location should be more up to the people who live there than us, ultimately. Are the crowds severely imposing upon their quality of life? Are any benefits from tourism (in terms of revenues generated, jobs supported, taxes raised, etc) outweighed by things like the loss of affordable housing to vacation rentals, overcrowded streets, etc? Then it's a major issue, certainly.

In terms of Europe's tourism sites being overcrowded, though, it seems the increase in tourism numbers has occurred at a time when we're increasingly more able to work around it, or prepare ourselves for it. Nowadays, you can use the web to research different sites, tips and tricks, alternate destinations, workarounds, and so on; you can more easily find tour company options that cater to you when it comes to itineraries, pricing, even values or customer type; oftentimes you can pull up real-time information on traffic and wait times; you can book things in advance, buy tickets and passes ahead of time, and skip lines when able. There's no real need to find yourself surprised by crowds - even if you don't like them and weren't looking forward to them, I think many of us are at least able to make an informed decision or calculated risk to put up with them if not avoid them as much as possible. I think it's a great time to be a traveler!

I think crowds have increased as more people can afford to travel - and that's a good thing. For me it puts the focus on getting outside the main tourist areas and visiting smaller towns and sights that are less accessible by public transportation. Rick seems to have a large preference for places accessible by train. I think that's led his recommendations to have "benefited" from a massive tourist boom.

I now prefer to spend fewer days to see the big must sees in the big cities and more days exploring smaller towns I think I'll enjoy (for me usually medieval towns). I'm finding the places I enjoy most are those least discussed by travel advisers.

I was in York in May and was somewhat disappointed with the Shambles area. Shop owners had clearly spent a lot to make their places nicer; It was much nicer than I remembered. I preferred it, however, when it looked more "authentic" and less dressed up.

No, European travel is not worse. It is just more affordable so more people are doing it who never could before and the various travel gurus have pushed people to go places they used to not resulting in crowds in places that used to not be so crowded.

Flying is actually a lot easier than it was 20 years ago when I started doing the bulk of my European trips. Smart phones, WiFi everywhere, all make things a lot easier because you are informed of changes much sooner than when you used to show up at the airport only then to find your flight was either changed or cancelled leaving you stranded.

ATMs on every corner everywhere in the world where you can get cash you need on the spot at the best rate possible instead of trying to guess how much to carry with you worrying the whole trip you might lose it. Or dealing with Traveller Checks.

More people understand and speak English. Helpful to me and otherEnglish speakers who are not fluent in multiple languages yet still want to go to multiple places. That doesn't mean I won't at least try a few words in the language of where I go, but is comforting to know I will likely find someone who understands me well enough that we can communicate.

Does this mean that travel is nirvana? No, of course not. With the crowds comes difficulties.

You have to plan ahead, sometimes way ahead, in order to have place to sleep other than a bench in the train station. Thirty years ago, you simply showed up and there were always rooms available. While this is still possible in many places, it is highly unlikely you could do n entire trip with no pre booked rooms.

Seats on airplanes are closer together than in the olden days of flight (which is one reason why they don't cost all that much) so flights can be uncomfortable. You have to pay extra for everything that used to be included with your ticket. If you are in the cheeper seats, you get treated like cattle.

People are jerks. Not saying that richer people are better behaved, because a lot of the things I have seen were done by those appearing to be well off, but it seems like as travel has gotten more affordable to groups who used to not be able to afford it people in general seem to have come to believe they can do anything they like and no one is going to stop them. They don't take the time to even look at traffic regulations because the way they are used to doing things at home is all the matters. When someone doesn't understand what your are asking, talk louder in a fake Hollywood 1930's accent supposedly representative of that location (like that is going to help). Go into rooms at museums that have signs and ropes to keep people out because that doesn't mean you. Knock over geologic monuments that have been there for millions of years because it doesn't look safe to you who has no geological education. I could go on.

Even with the problems the crowds bring with them, No, I am not going to stop traveling. It is too enjoyable to learn things about various cultures around the world in person to sit home and read about it or watch a show on TV. I have realized that there will always be crowds, there are limits to how many lines you can skip (if everyone buys the skip the line ticket then no one is skipping the line!), and I just have to be patient and go with the flow. Sometimes just sitting down and having a cup of coffee is the best option.

Is it "worse" to be able to deal with airlines and hotels directly instead of through an agent or by mail? Is it "worse" that flights are relatively cheaper than 30 years ago? Is it "worse" to easily reserve restaurants and entrance tickets instantly on-line? Or, simple but fundamental, is it "worse" that a discussion can go on through this medium?
Yes, many more people are enjoying travel than when I first hit the road. But I have far more options, and so does the original poster who sounds well seasoned. The question, at its root, is about us, not the people around us.

Crowds- Going back in 2007 and again in 2017-the increase in tourists everywhere. Less room and more pushing.

Flights are now full. When I first started to fly to Europe in the early 2000s, you would have flights the flew half full where you could sleep in an empty row. Today, it's packed flights and rude travelers.

Another side to this is not having a good gauge of what would be considered crowded. I’ve been to Rome once, and it was during Holy Week. I have no clue whether it was more crowded than usual or not. It just was. Someone else would have to look at my photos of Trevi and the Spanish Steps to tell me how it compared to other weeks of the year.

I am about to listen to this episode from today's Forum on NPR:

https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101871871/coping-with-overtourism

edit: working my way through ;-)
So far there are some interesting points about very small places (Venice, Bhutan, etc.) being completely swamped. One mayor put it this way: "Imagine you are throwing a dinner party for 12 people and 12,000 show up. You simply can't accommodate the number of people who want to come. Plus you have to do something to repair the damage caused by crowds." Apparently Bhutan charges tourists $250/day, which goes toward your lodging, etc. but pays their workers in the tourism industry and also goes toward education ... but they are thinking of raising the amount b/c demand still keeps increasing. The global phenomenon of overcrowding reminds me of examples closer to home – just in the last few years Disneyland has (apparently; it's not my kind of place, but I hear about it!) become clogged with vast crowds every day of the year, and Lombard St in SF is considering limiting access and charging a fee to the hordes of people who swamp this residential street night and day, making life a nightmare for residents.

I first spent 4 months in Europe (backpack, eurail passes and youth hostels) and then 2 months in Israel (kibbutz) in 1977, and have more recently experienced 2-3 week trips to Europe multiple times over the last few years. The changes are phenomenal. Yeah, there were fewer tourists than there were in 1977 but.... now I can: get on a train and know that I have a seat and won't have to stand between Amsterdam and Brussels; know that I have a room when I arrive in a city and don't go to the TI when I arrive to find out that the city (Oslo) is completely booked in my price range and I'll need to take the midnight train south to a youth hostel out in the country to have a place to lay my head; able to let my family know what country I'm in on a daily basis, rather than them waiting to receive postcards to know that I am alive; able to go through multiple borders without passport checks in the middle of the night (on the train) or trying to change money one more time at my next location. Yeah, the anglicization (is that a word?) of much European communication has meant that we North Americans often don't have to work so hard to be understood so can sometimes take the commonality of our language for granted, but it's also a relief to be able to ask directions in broken-other-language and receive clear kind instructions in my own tongue. Yes, there were fewer other travelers then, but much lower airline prices now means that I can travel to Europe much more frequently than I would ever have been able to do if prices had remained as they were years ago. For me, European travel hasn't gotten worse. It's changed. And some of the changes mean that I can experience other cultures - and take family and friends to experience other cultures - more frequently and easily, and then hopefully bring those experiences back to my own place and people and impact them in ways that are for the greater good of us all.

Compared to traveling in the past, say 30 years ago, absolutely more chances of encountering rude people, pushing, and more crowds. Traveling in this regard has gotten worse.

It's trade-off here...a lot more tourist friendly. In the past signs were mainly in the local language. You were expected to know French or German when dealing with locals in restaurants and shops. Even as late as decade of the 1990s, I was never offered an English menu or asked in Germany. You were given a German menu...period.

Now the odds are 50/50 depending on where you are in western Germany or Austria, if you get out of the international tourist towns/cities, not so in the eastern part, lots of places in Brandenburg, Mecklenburg everything is German.

No doubt some of the up tick in negatives is due to over crowding and to the behavior patterns of certain nationalities when they are traveling, but there is another reason which I hope accounts for some of it-- discerning travel. There are many celebrity travel sights, places that are famous for being famous, not because they are worth spending your time and money visiting them. I think that knowing what not to do is at least as important as knowing what to do, and I wish all replies to posted questions would include a 'don't do this list'. See the post "Places that DON’T click for you Mira 89 06/26/19 08:08 AM" for an example.

How true about riding the train in 1977! I was on my 3rd trip to Europe in Aug/Sept of 1977, never had to reserve a seat or reserve a room in advance.

Certainly the crowds were nowhere in terms of comparison to those of today, visited Salzburg for the first time, spent 3 nights. The city was crowded then too but nowhere as crowded a few years ago but, in spite of that, the crowds don't pose an obstacle.

I think a lot of the negative posts we see on the board (not regular posters, usually people who turn up to complain loudly about something where they were in the wrong and are never seen again) are because nowadays the first reaction some people have to a problem is to rant about it online.

Has European Travel Gotten So Much Worse?

No. Well, maybe.

Prior posts have been excellent and mirror my feelings. We've been to Europe 4 times in as many years.

Making arrangements to travel has never been easier. We've had wonderful experiences and have been able to travel "low and light".

There are negatives from the increased number of people traveling. I think this applies more to first time travelers and the unadventurous who visit the most popular (and obvious) cities and sites. However, if you know when and where to go, you can still have a great trip.

I'm reminded of traveling to US National Parks, especially those out West. Yosemite was very crowded last time I went, which was over 30 years ago. However, if you travel more than a mile or two into the back country, you leave behind over 95% of the visitors. We also camped at the Grand Canyon in our pop up several years ago. The South rim was crazy, but we camped on the North Rim in a primitive camping site with no running water, no showers, no electricity and pit toilets. There were just a few hardy souls like us and was a great, peaceful experience.

We are far from throwing in the towel. We have been doing financial planning for our upcoming retirement and have even budgeted in for yearly travel.

This is not a new issue. RS started out doing "Through the Back Door" specifically to avoid the usual crowds. And then that became popular, because of people like us. Add to this the increasing wealth of the majority of the worlds population and you're bound to have to make adjustments to your plans if you want to avoid the crowds. This is true, not only in Europe, but everywhere. The globalization of knowledge has done more to change travel than most realize, and travel has gotten cheaper (as a portion of the average person's disposable income).

What travel has gotten is less exclusive.

"We are far from throwing in the towel." How very, very true ! Crowds or not I'm still going, as tedious and taxing crowds could become. True, as pointed out above, the key too is knowing where to go.

I don’t see these negative tourism articles published when we travel somewhere in Europe in November or March. We love traveling in late autumn and early spring to avoid the masses of summer tourists and also to enjoy the high culture that is in season but won’t be in the middle of summer like the Wiener Staatsoper.

I do see these negative articles about tourism beginning to appear in late spring and then of course in the summer especially in these last couple of years when the USD has been strong.

This is one of those questions that nearly impossible to answer since it is really personal experience and only you can a personal experience. Took our first trip in 72, everything was pretty pleasant with good airline seats, etc. With both in education our travels were limited to summer months, mostly early June, so we were somewhat use to crowds and hot weather. Now we we are retired, we can travel in the off season and do so. We still encounter crowds that remind us somewhat of the crowds encountered 20 years ago in the summer. Assume that summer crowds must be bigger but we don't see that because we not traveling then for comparison. Travel planning is more efficient today because of internet, guidebooks, DVDs, etc. Plane travel is awful. While prices are cheap, the service level has substantially declined but we are getting what we pay for. For us, that is the only thing that is worse -- getting to and from. Once in Europe the travel options are vastly improved especially train service and (with the exception of England) it is cheap. European accommodations are far better with something that look like a shower and toilet in your room. The dollar is substantially weaker so prices are higher. Fortunately for us the family funds increase at about the same rate as the dollar declined so real cost to us about the same. You now can get a cold soda in London and the WWI damage is completely gone today. Don't have to carry travelers' checks. Travel clothing is better and the functionality is so much better. Life is better in '19. .

We travel different today and our needs have change than when we traveled in 72. So for us, on average European is better today than it was in 72. But there were a couple of things we liked in 72 that are gone forever.

I'd imagine one of the reasons I've been to Europe so often, and thus had so many opportunities to come across crowds or find myself waiting in a line, is all the things that have made international travel so much more available to countless people are things I'm likely taking advantage of myself - cheaper flights, more flight options, readily-accessible information online, absence of visa restrictions through much of Europe, etc. Who am I to complain about the people ahead of me in line, without regard for the folks behind me in that same line? If I'm in a position to complain about a crowd, there's a reasonably good chance I'm contributing to it.

I was very fortunate to have spent my childhood and teenage years living overseas, and traveling often. I was very fortunate to be able to travel through Europe on my own as a teenager, with parents who encouraged that kind of adventure and valued experiencing other cultures and societies in such a way. A key takeaway I have from that upbringing is that I was indeed profoundly fortunate. I won the birthplace and birth circumstance lottery, so to speak. In the grand scheme of things, most of us likewise did. We were born in prosperous countries, during prosperous times. We don't even need to be old-money trust fund kids for that to be the case, either - within the context of the world at large, having disposable income, not living a subsistence life, and having access to the means and mechanisms of international travel makes us truly fortunate. Heck, having access to drinking water makes us a great deal more fortunate that so much of the world's population.

We're also profoundly fortunate in that international travel gives us the opportunity to broaden our horizons and be enlightened. One of the things I like most about traveling to certain European cities is not just the chance to meet and interact with locals, but the other tourists from all over the world who I might run in to. I should hope the world, and our respective countries and societies, can benefit from more people traveling more often, experiencing other cultures, and getting outside of their comfort zones. If travel has become so much more accessible that folks for whom it might not have been an option a not long ago are able to experience it now, that is a wonderful thing.

I'm sure I can't be the only one who stepped in to the room at the Louvre and saw the crowd around the Mona Lisa and thought, "Oh no! What a mess!". I suspect, however, that some of the folks in that crowd were entirely awestruck by the painting, thrilled at the opportunity to be so close to something they'd read about, heard about, or even studied, and possibly thought they'd never get to see in person. I'm sure there were people in that crowd who saved for years, decades, perhaps even a lifetime to make the trip that put them in that room at that moment. I'm sure there were people in the crowd from countries whose passports subject them to all sorts of hassles as they arrive in foreign airports, or for whom it's even a hassle to try and fly out of their own country. I'm sure there were people in that room who were the very first members of their immediate family to ever travel so far from home. It'd be a bit silly of me to resent any of those people, and if I'm unable to notice and appreciate their excitement and enthusiasm to be in the midst of something I'm tempted to complain about, that's my own problem and not theirs.

I don't think European travel is anymore crowded than say some of the US National Parks, Florida in season (I live here and always look forward to the summer) and big cities (NYC, San Fran, Chicago). Air flights in US are just as crowded as going overseas. What am I going to stop traveling to any place???? Absolutely not. What does Rick say, "Just keep on traveling". Maybe slow down and enjoy what we can do and how lucky we are to be able to do it!

If "better" means cheaper, easier via the internet, and much, much more crowded, then yes, it's better. If you want less crowded conditions then don't go or avoid the usual times of the year. I'm looking forward to an eventual retirement and travelling off-season.

Ah, nothing like no A/C with temperatures in the 90s and sweating through your clothes in a 2-hour line or a poorly ventilated subway. Good times, my friends. No, I don't mean August in Disney World.

Crowds....definitely worse than they were when I started traveling in the early 80s. Not everywhere but at many places that I love.
Price...much better. Airfare is so cheap if you play it right and take advantage of points. I'm paying relatively less to travel now than ever.
Crime...FAR better in some places and FAR worse in others. Totally depends on where you go.
Ease of travel...I think airports and planes are no better or worse. Airport procedures worldwide seem to have more consistency than they used to. Things are a bit more predictable.
Do-it-yourself...I remember having to call around to different airlines to compare prices, trying to find the best one. Took HOURS on the phone. Now I can find good flights and buy them in 20-30 minutes in front of my device. SO much easier.
Getting around...there are so many more options than ever. Cheap airfare within regions, Uber in cities, bike share, scooter share. Metro systems have streamlined, are safer, and offer so many options depending on how much you want to use them and where you want to go within a city.
I won't throw in the towel...I still LOVE to travel within Europe and there are plenty of places where it is still like it was 40 years ago.

People in groups get stupid. People are taking selfies, or embedded in their phones and generally not paying attention. They're so focused on what they want to see and do they're oblivious. I use a small mobility scooter and I can't tell you how many times I've nearly run into people because they've stopped right in front of me or said "Excuse me" multiple times to be ignored. I don't think they're being jerks (or at least I don't until the end of the day :-). If we all paid attention a bit more we'd all have a better experience.

Whether one sees travel as much improved in getting around, becoming affordable, if not down right cheap in some cases, even over the summer, in spite of the positives and the negatives, do these factors present a problem to you and would they dictate your decision to go to Europe still.

Apart from improvements pertaining to tech factors, eg, electronic boards in train stations, even in the food court, I tell newbies, uncertain and insecure as to what expect, once they land in that foreign airport in Europe, that vacatioing in Europe is a lot easier than it was 40-50 years ago, if you knew only English. Traveling has become so much tourist friendly in contrast to the times , say 50 years ago.

Bottom line is if these negative factors are important enough to deter you from going to a particular region or town literally swamped with tourists...an important individual decision. They're irrelevant if i want to see a place that desperately, I'll still be going over in the summer.

In my opinion the question shows really that OP did not understand Europe at all. It is manifold in terms of cultures, languages, and so many other aspects that it really does not make sense to raise a question of "European" travel. You could ask the question also for world travel. simply not meaningful.

The number of tourists increased - especially in the corner of low-intellectuals. And believe it or not but some intelligence helps to have a positive travel experience. If other portals would get money for every entry of people who felt ripped-off by a rental car company they would be billionaires. And very often it is not the fault of the companies; a lot of people simply do not know how this business is working.

Wrong expectation is the main reason for disappointment. Two main reasons:

• Wrong picture: one of the best examples for that is what US American tourists (not other American tourists) think what Germany is. It has nothing to do with Germany at all - in most cases even not with Bavaria. Some of them are so keen to visit Oktoberfest which has no meaning or relevance at all. Poor variety of beer sorts, fully overpriced and for 95% of Germans not a place they want to be.
• Paid travel influencers put the level of expectations high, fully ignoring that a normal tourists who pay the party and also their life will not see the same things or even if then not under the same circumstances.

So, imo it is less about Europe.