Has anyone else noticed how much cheaper travelling is without kids?😁

Also generally less whining and teen angst in the travel party.

We took an 8 year old with us to Madrid, Granada, Barcelona and Paris. Our accommodations had to be in close proximity to McDonalds' restaurants. Thought she was going to turn into a Chicken Nugget before getting home.
She stays with her aunt next 2 trips.

Everytime I see a large family traveling, all I can think of is "Holy Cow, it must be costing them a fortune!"
Same thing when I see people posting on this forum traveling with a family of 5 for 21 days to Rome, Florence, Venice, Salzburg, Prague and Munich. I just see a big string of $ signs.

As someone who is hoping to start traveling with her kids next summer (they are currently 6.5 and 4), can I ask what makes traveling with kids so expensive? Is it just that there are extra bodies along for the ride? That is, you’re buying four museum entries instead of one or two? Or is it something else? Anyone have tips on keeping the cost down?

Allison, I expect it is the fact airfare is the same for kids as adults. Also, European hotels often don't allow kids to sleep free and getting beds for 4 is challenging. Souvenirs, more food, gelato and snack stops. Children's entertainment (particularly theme parks, or similar). If your kids need car seats, you either shlep them along or have to figure out how to find them. I am going to say it may well cost more than double a couple's budget....but some judicious research can reduce that when they are as young as yours.

You can always tell when school holidays are by looking at EasyJet flight prices! The difference from London to Portugal between the first Saturday in June and the first Saturday in August is about x3 the fare and that’s before most people start booking for next summer. Luckily, I travel outside of school holiday season.

Allison- yes, extra tickets, food, hotel space. There are many members (none on this thread) of this forum obsessed with saving money; and would leave a spouse at home if they could save 29 cents. Well maybe a wee bit more then that.

When someone posts spending $5-6/in the US to get 200 Euro to have some cash in pocket upon arrival they go nuts at the monetary “loss” (although it is not theirs). But to be fair, many have very limited budgets and try to make every dollar/pound/euro count and you can’t fault them for that.

Travel safe,

One Fast Bob

can I ask what makes traveling with kids so expensive?

Allison; I was just posting a lighthearted thought and was hoping for some lighthearted comments; I wouldn't trade the vacation memories I have with my kids for anything, but paying for 2 is a heck of a lot cheaper than paying for 4. 2 less airfares, 2 less entry tickets, 2 less mouths to feed. And wait until they're teens; especially trying to feed a teenage boy.

My two kids are in their early 20's and I suspect/hope we'll be travelling again as an extended family with their future spouses and my future grandchildren and making memories again, but right now I'm enjoying more expensive hotels, finer restaurants and more exotic locations.

Of course, then there are the entitled 20-somethings you think they should still be included on all their parents' trips(at the parents' expense of course). The newest tactic-get her a main coach ticket with miles, if she wants premium economy she pays.

right now I'm enjoying more expensive hotels, finer restaurants and
more exotic locations.

"Traveling" is a really broad term and can be accomplished in a myriad of ways and different price points. One can travel at the same budget level with or without kids - it's a matter of tradeoffs and the style of travel. As the above comment shows, people do tend to travel differently when it's just adults (or, more likely, as their disposable income grows). Family travel decades ago didn't involve plane tickets or expensive tours to Europe. Stuffing kids in a car and driving somewhere and/or camping once you got there (or staying with family or friends) meant that travel cost per (per head) was kept pretty low. I grew up in Southern CA so a vacation to the beach, mountains, desert, or Northern CA was just a few hours drive away. My parents also owned this outmoded concept called a "timeshare", which was quite cost effective for family vacations. So I think it's worth stepping back and thinking through how your travel preferences changed over the years and what was possible (or likely) with kids versus without kids.

Mine are 10 and 13.

Obviously the flight is the biggest increased cost. $700 for one airline ticket seems good, multiply by 4 and suddenly it’s expensive. Beyond that, though, I find the increased cost pretty low.

Lodging isn’t more expensive if you rent apartments. A decent 2 bedroom apartment is the same cost as a mid-range double hotel room. Of course if you are renting 2 hotel rooms, the cost is double. Don’t do that if you want to save money!

Food? Yes, more people means more food to buy. Same for transit tickets and admissions to sights (some are free for kids, some aren’t). This is manageable by being smart with your choices, but at some level it’s unavoidable. But when I travel without my kids I spend more on fancy restaurants and alcohol. With them it’s mid range restaurants and a glass of wine instead of a bottle! So sometimes eating with them is cheaper :)

Traveling with kids can be very rewarding for all involved. That's not to say that the planning isn't quite complex and it can be pricey. We have 4 kids. We did find it more difficult to find hotel accommodations at a price we were willing to pay in Europe. In the U.S., its easy to find rooms that sleep at least 4, in Europe, its much harder and more expensive.

Also, we have found we are less sensitive to airfare prices with only 2 travelers than we were with 6!

Extra costs to travel with kids: Depending on the destination, and the number of children in the family, sometimes you need TWO taxis (an adult in each one with small children) as some of the taxis are very small!

One of the reason we took to European cruising was the cost of travel with our two sons. It was very cheap on a cruise ship for the 3 and 4th passenger so other than the additional airfare, it was as inexpensive as traveling in the US. A cruise ship solves a lot of problems when traveling with younger kids.

Now, of course, it is the grandchildren, the spouses, the sons, and Dad still pays. Fortunately after many lean years in education we can now afford it and enjoy it.

My two are now 21, so my strategies were as they were growing up. We started traveling with them when they were 6. As others have mentioned, the biggest expense is the airfare. I spend a lot of time researching flight costs (up to a year or two in advance so I know what is typical for the destination) and book as soon as I see something “reasonable”. I also try to use points for at least one ticket. We would also do a mix of apartments and quad rooms where available. As far as on the ground transport, we often rented cars, which I know a lot of people on the site don’t recommend. We are judicious with our rentals and never rent in cities. The biggest money saver though, was leaving husband home if the place was one he did not have a big desire to see :) He has never been a big traveler and I often went without him before kids anyway. I do not find the rest of the expenses - food, tickets, etc. to be substantially more. Like others have said, I would not trade our family travel memories for any amount of money.

All that being said, I am looking forward to my first real vacation with just me and my husband for our 35th next year. With his appetite though, I don’t expect to save much………

For people considering traveling to Europe (from the US) with young children I would ask 'why'. Do you want to expose them to other cultures, etc.?, do you just want them (and you) to have an enjoyable time?, do YOU want to go so feel you need to bring them with you? Cause except in certain circumstances I think taking children younger than teens is not going to be 'worth it'. They would probably have a better time doing a vacation closer to home (with less travel, more time to do 'enjoyable' things,). And the parents would have a better time trying to 'sight see' in Europe without them. Not to mention the money saved.

The youngest of my children was 12 when we took her to Europe, and while she certainly remembers the trip, I don't think it meant that much to her. She is now 29 and planning a trip to Europe with her finance and is essentially 'discounting' the fact that she's already to been to many of the places she is considering going.While I don't regret taking her when she was 12 I'm not sure it was 'worth it'. Her sister was 17 on that first trip and she loved it. She and I took another few trips in the next few years and then she did two studies abroad, an internship, grad school and a year of teaching. Totally hooked on Europe. I'm not saying it's cause her intro to Europe was at 17 versus 12 but that could be part of it. But I'm quite sure than younger than 12 they are just along for the ride and would be just as happy with a much less expensive beach or something vacation.

Allan - I'm sorry to semi-hijack the thread!

Don't worry; I didn't think for a second that you regretted traveling with your kids. I'm just at the stage where it is now possible to start thinking about taking my kids on bigger trips, and so this thread caught my eye. I was curious if it was just because with kids you are adding more people, or if it was something kid-specific that I was missing. As someone said, carseats can be an expense or hassle. But, as another person pointed out, eating with kids sometimes means eating at less expensive restaurants, so that's a plus. And I'm definitely looking at apartment rental over hotels, as someone else suggested.

I was lucky in that I got to spend several summers in Europe doing language classes, and spent almost a year there for research. I either traveled on my own or with people my own age, and would cram A LOT in. The hardest part for me about thinking about traveling with my kids has been paring things back, to think about travel from their perspective. As someone in the thick of child-raising right now, it's good to hear that others have traveled with their kids and survived - as well that you've come out the other side and are enjoying childless travel, too. :-)

Isabel - I can't speak for everyone, but I'd like to take my kids to Europe because I want them to experience different cultures and have a broader sense of the world, and also because, yeah, I want to go back to Europe. I live in Connecticut but grew up in Florida, so my kids have grown up doing two or three trips to Florida a year (although, with my oldest in first grade now, we don't have as much time to go). Here's the funny thing - I can get to London from Boston for about the same price as I can get from Hartford to Orlando, especially during school holiday times. So part of me thinks, if we're flying somewhere anyways, and spending that much money anyways, might as well go to Europe! I do agree that there are things I'd like to see that they would not appreciate/make time there miserable. I'm not going to take them to the Louvre at this age, but we could have a lot of fun playing with the sailboats at the Luxembourg Gardens. I have a list of places I want to go or return to, but will not go there with the kids until they are much older - Berlin (return) and Madrid (first-time), for example. But I think they would get a kick out of exploring the Black Forest, or Alsace, or scaling a castle in Wales.

As for your daughters, obviously I don't know you or them, but I think it just comes down to personality. My husband's family made it a point to take a big trip every year or every other year when he was young. They've been to Panama, Spain, London, even a Christmas in Rome. His siblings will go anywhere at the drop of a hat. My husband, meanwhile, will travel as far as Boston and that's about it. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Allison, I don't think you hijacked it, I got a chuckle out of your initial comment because it was one of those 'been there done that moments'. I remember when my kids were 3 and 5 and my in-laws were pressuring us to make a family trip with them to Disney World. We had decided that they were too young and we wanted to wait until they were a bit older. The in-laws finally offered to pay if we'd go. Can't say no to that. As it turns out my kids weren't too young. My overall favourite memory and photo is Winnie the Pooh kissing my daughter on the head and her reaction. As they got older though the expenses kept adding up and now I'm excited about it just being about my wife and I. No regrets about the past but looking forward to the present and beyond.

I think interest in traveling is mostly personality when you're young. As you get older and develop more interests, that may increase the desire to travel. For no apparent reason I started reading guide books to Europe before I was a teenager, and my family had taken exactly one vacation (other than staying with my grandmother) during my entire childhood--to a Florida beach about 100 miles from our home. Although I had aunts and uncles who had been to Europe during and immediately after WWII, they didn't discuss their experiences in my presence.

Come to think of it, I was a very big reader as a child, prowling the adult section of the library from an early age. (This was pretty much pre-TV.) Exposure to books about and set in other countries may well have planted the seed. There are a lot of TV shows and movies that could play a similar role for kids not so inclined to read.

@allison, we may try to show our kids culture, but they don't always "get it".

When my daughter was in 5th grade, the only the only thing she wanted to visit on vacation was PortaVentura, the amusement park by Barcelona. Why, because "everyone else in her class had been there." My wife and I tried to argue that we hadn't been there because we took our vacations in the States and that she should feel lucky that she had been to places like Washington D.C., the Grand Canyon, San Francisco, Hawaii and the original Disneyland. To which she replied "Esto no vale, fue con los abuelos", or "that doesn't count, we went with my grandparents."

We had a similar discussion on basically the same subject a couple of month ago. Why people travel and the travel style they adopt tend to be influences by many factors and it can be very personal. In our situation both sets of parents were depression era. The saved everything for retirement. "We will do is when we retire. etc., etc." And one parent on each side died at or just after retirement --- and all the great plans for retirement travel went down the drain. We looked at each others and said, "We are going now!!" We were both in education and despised by many taxpayers should we dare ask for raise. With two young sons we had more choice but to take them with us. So we did working every angle to make it cost effective. Our goal was history, culture, and an appreciation for how the rest of the world functions. The one drawback is that we may have turned our sons into world travelers. One son and dil did a five month, around the world honeymoon. The other son and dil spend a part of each summer in Italy and sometimes twice a year.

We now travel without the kids but they do like to tag along when it is convenient. And truthfully --- we like the idea that our kids still like to travel with us. Younger son says the only reason he travels with us is to protect his inheritance.

And when the spouse is not traveling with you, the cost is even lower!

Lots more money for beer that way.

I could - and have! - go on a long diatribe about parenting philosophy and why travel is good for kids. I think we all know the arguments and I fully agree.

But here’s another reason : It’s fun!!!! I don’t see travel with my kids as work or a chore. Sure, when my sister is available to babysit for a week I enjoy a kid free trip, but I also enjoy trips with my kids. It’s different (less wine, fewer late nights, shorter museum visits, more parks, ice cream, and wandering) but equally fun. Really, there is no need to make a trip to Europe a more stressful deal than a trip across the US. Go places you enjoy, find things the kids like, relax, enjoy your time, and come home to people thinking you are either insane or a super parent! Neither is true!
My kids (well one in particular) are NOT easy. We have behavior-related special needs and illnesses. It’s ok, that’s our situation, we adapt at home and we adapt on the road.

Here’s a typical day from our trip to Greece: I wake up early, go for a photo walk with early rising child (husband and other kid sleep). Stop at cafe, juice for kid, coffee for me. Walk more. Bring pastries home to the others who are now awake. Get dressed, eat in the apartment. Walk to (or get bus) to historic sight. Explore it, explaining history and Greek gods. Kids get excited about Zeus, buy a book on mythology. Go to lunch at local casual restaurant. Kids eat chicken skewers for the billionth time, but it’s ok. Go back to apartment for rest and reading. After an hourish go for a walk around town, pop into a church or small museum. Stop at cafe for wine/juice/gelato and sea views. Get takeout for picnic in park, kids play on playground with local kids and tourist kids from all over. Wander over to well lit square, enjoy atmosphere. Go to bed. Husband may go out for a late night walk since I went in the morning. Or not. Prepare for beach day tomorrow.
See? Fun, not hard, and a million times better than a day at home.

We are one of those families that travel with 5ppl, three of the kids. We started when my youngest was 9. Here's the whole story:
My hubby and I came up with an idea when the kids were young that when they turned 13 (or, the summer of their 13th year) the same gendered parent would take them on a "coming of age" trip. We came up with parameters (3 weeks, kid does much of the planning, etc). When my oldest turned 13, her wish was to go to the Netherlands, so we crafted a 3 week trip that included the Netherlands.
Now, I have traveled to Europe several times, mostly to the Netherlands bc my mom is Dutch and I have a lot of extended family there. So I did travel to Europe when I was quite young and I do remember it specifically and fondly. The last two trips were when I was 13, and then when I was 22 (parents divorced, mom and I have issues).
So fast forward and my daughter wants to connect with her family roots. We made a triangle and went Netherlands (mostly AMS but some surrounding areas to visit relatives), Rhine/Heidelberg (to see a friend), Paris, Normandy, back to AMS.
It was SO FUN, such a revelation, that I came home determined that if we could do it CHEAP, I would love to go to Europe with the whole family. We have done a big trip every summer since (so 3).
Its definitely not comparable to trips we do here, which are road trips around various parts of the country mostly, but here are some things we do to keep costs down (note: I am a miser, and while we are professionals, our tastes run very, mm, humble)
Ok, first I drew a circle around my city including all the airports to which I would be willing to drive for cheap airfare. My goal is always 500/ticket and Ive met it every trip. Then we got a Chase Visa to earn points toward travel. In one year we almost earn enough points to pay for all 5 tickets. So as people say, given that airfare is the most expensive, we have almost managed to come out even on that. But again, we do drive, usually 6 hours OW, to the cheaper airport (I also discovered an app that produced a month of parking our car in the cheap departure city for $50).
Then we stay mostly in Airbnb's. I love to stay in b&b's, especially if they offer breakfast, so I compare and search like crazy. Sometimes Airbnb's are listed for 4 ppl, and I send a PM to the owner to ask if they would accept 5 and we've always been welcome. My budget for the 5 of us is to average 125/nt. And we stay in charming places! We stayed in Girona Spain in a small, efficient, very charming and very well located Airbnb for 80/nt with beds for 5. But here again, 2 of us slept on a fold out futon that was also the couch in the kitchen/living area. It was like a small hotel suite.
Food: we dont eat expensive food. We eat a lot of picnic-type meals, bought at grocery stores and a lot of food-truck type meals. We do go to sit-down restaurants and I scour cities for good ones (not tourist traps, not "fancy" restaurants where I spend more than I think its worth). I found a great restaurant in Léon Spain called Zielo snack and bar just by looking at google maps and looking at pictures and reading reviews.
Transportation is often car, bc its way cheaper for 5 than 5 train tickets, but we do take trains when it makes sense and prefer public transit, but yeah, we aim for the budget so its often a rental car (and not a large one, as my kids will complain). Honestly, Ive ridden in the backseat of the rentals and it reminds me of being young in the 70's riding in the back of my parent's VW bug - not fun, but memories for life ;)
All that to say, I think we 'save' thousands compared to other travelers, but we do rough it compared to other's taste. My kids have had challenges and new experiences and we all enjoy talking about past events on trips. That said, it has gotten harder as they get older (they are now 17, 15, and 12) because, esp. the 15yo, they want to do their own thing. It really depends on personality...

My 17 yo loves it and wants to live traveling. The 15 and 12 yo's, not so much. We won't be taking a trip in 2020.
Despite all the "tricks" traveling is a luxury and we know it. We are lucky that we have the money, but we are also not frivolous with it. The first trip we went on, I forbid going out to eat for 4 months prior, saying "this is our gelato money". But I couldn't handle that the following two years ;p
My husband and I often say, during the trips, how we cant wait to do it alone (there is a lot of whining to contend with). But the fact is, I will miss the kids very much!

I was going to say what Mira did. Traveling with my kids is fun, and not a chore. It is indeed more expensive and finding a room to sleep four is tough, but we have also found some unique lodgings that I would not have gone for had it been for two people. Granted we have flown over to Europe only twice with them (they are nine now), but I like going places with them (and we have traveled quit a bit in the US too since a young age). People do give me the suggestion of waiting until they are in their teens and then take them over so that they get something out of it, which then brings to mind the two sulking teenagers in our Florence hotel who were so mad at their parents for having taking them to Italy over the summer causing them to miss out on hanging out with their friends. Their is no magical optimal time, and if you are willing and privileged enough to be able to afford it, then why not. I also don't need my kids to gain a lot of life experience out of every trip we take.

We enjoyed traveling with our daughter, even when she was only 15 mo old. We have memories of the trips even if she doesn't! (It was a family trip with her grandparents and we didn't have anyone to leave her with). She thinks of European travel as the norm, not something difficult or strange.

Edited to add: I thought of our trip to Italy and Greece when she had just finished 6th grade as a form of homeschooling, with related books(there was a series about Italy that she devoured, finding books I had hidden and reading them!) and our trip to Istanbul after 10th grade as a broadening experience(all her friends said "you'll get blown up" but when we got home from that trip (we also had been to Salzburg, Fussen(because she wanted to see Neuschweinstein Castle after seeing Rick's video) and Rothenburg, she said Istanbul was her favorite part of the trip.

She also said our trip to Gettsyburg was one of her favorite trips. She refuses to go to Yellowstone because of that stupid Supervolcano movie(Que eyeroll on my part)

And the only time the 3 of us went to Disneyworld(going again this Dec) was when she was 5. She did go several times with groups from church and school when she was in high school.

When our 3 kids were little, we went to USA National Parks - Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain, Zion, Bryce, Capital Reef, Gettysburg. We could camp, and kids really enjoy that. It was not cheap, but not expensive either. I have never understood why people want to take small (<16) children to Europe. They probably won't appreciate it, they likely won't remember it, and it's a huge hassle.

We did take our 3 on a "final family vacation" when the younger 2 finished college. We did museums and churches. The kids helped plan the trip. We went to bars, had drinks, didn't have too much whining. It was great. Our kids still talk about it.

Allison - I certainly hear you about getting to London from Boston less expensively than BDL to places in the US. The daughter I mentioned above who loves Europe currently lives in California and I just had to decide whether to go visit her in March or go to London. BOS to LHR was less than BDL to SFO so I'm going to London. She understands. So if you can do Europe for the same as a US trip it makes a lot of sense. And I agree with you that if exposing them to other cultures is a major reason then it makes sense. I just see so many little kids being dragged around Europe by parents looking pretty unhappy themselves that I question why some people do it.

I love traveling with and without the kids. My kids and grandkids have met us for several trips (NYC and another to Yosemite). It has been great and so much fun. Traveling with hubby is also great. We tend to do more things, more museums and theaters, so it is a different type of adventure.

There are seasons in life and this is really reflected in some of the posts here. The challenge is to enjoy all of them and be thankful for what you have.

Carol, perfect!

I have never understood why people want to take small (<16) children to Europe. They probably won't appreciate it, they likely won't remember it, and it's a huge hassle.

We've been taking our kids across Europe for years and they remember most of their trips well (they're now 14 and 12). They also remember their trips to the US even the one to NYC when the youngest was 3 (admittedly it was the penguins at the zoo and the giant Elmo outside FAO Schwarz). It all depends on what you do with them however dragging them through art gallery after art gallery will likely bore them to death you have to question why have kids in the first place if you can't devote some time to do kids stuff with them? Many of the interactive science museums I've been to are full of dads quietly relishing their time with the exhibits whilst giving the illusion that they're just doing it for the kids.

A long weekend without the kids is fine but I would never contemplate anything longer.

I mean - I hope my mom doesn't say that - lol. Then again, she didn't come to Europe with us until I was 41...lol.

We never had kids (by choice) but I can tell you, had we had kids, we never would have been able to start travelling in our mid-30s!

I will say, I can't recall who posted it, but someone was asking about taking kids to Paris and what to do there with them and one of the replies was all about the great parks and all the fun stuff for kids to do. It made me wish - for just one minute - that I had a kid to take to Paris with us. It sounded like it would be a blast, to live vicariously thru them. But then I realized I'm not a fan of kids and it went away really quick. ;)

@ Carol - Exactly!

But then I realized I'm not a fan of kids and it went away really quick. ;)

Sshhh, I know where your niece works!

I loved traveling with my daughter (still do). I would let her take the lead many days. She would bring an entirely new perspective to my travels and brought back a lot of youthful fun! I left her home once when she was one year old and our family felt less than whole on that trip. I think maybe the reason some people don’t like to travel with kids is because the can’t adapt the chemistry to an added child. Just IMO. I can’t wait to travel with my grandchildren. Other than airfare I didn’t find much of a difference in cost...same room, small, cheap eaters, etc.

There are seasons in life and this is really reflected in some of the
posts here. The challenge is to enjoy all of them and be thankful for
what you have.

My favourite comment so far. This travelling without kids is the newest stage in our lives and we're loving it, but we do still find ourselves commenting about things we see that we think our kids would love.

Our kids are well traveled. They spent a month in Europe last summer and have been to S. Africa and Hawaii several times as well. After my youngest (age 11 at the time) complained in Scotland “not another castle” we were ready to do some traveling without kiddos. We just got back from Greece, sans kids, we hired a retired family friend of ours to stay with our girls. We paid her well and it was still a lot cheaper than taking them with us! I hope to travel with them both again someday, perhaps in their 20’s, but for now, hubs and I want to go without them. This also allows us to go during the school year, when we otherwise would not be able to travel. We are doing our second RS tour in the spring and having our “travel nanny” stay with our girls again as it went very well!

I also agree with some of the comments here.......frankly, I will travel however I have to do it....with kids, without kids, in nice hotels or hostels, by plane, by train, by boat or car....I just have a huge desire to see the world!

Everything is cheaper without kids.
But they’re worth every penny.

I started taking my son to Europe for several months almost every summer when he was young and the memories and experiences are priceless.

As much as the travel budget, what I enjoy is the extra flexibility. With 3 kids you are limited in terms of accommodations ( 2 hotel rooms in much of Europe, or a suite or an apartment). And bigger cars. I still remember the time we got the last rental car and squished 3 teens into the back of a Dodge Caliber.

I think there's a difference between where you're based. For us, a long weekend to a city in Europe is generally relatively cheap and easily done without much hassle which means there isn't the sense of trying to fit as much in as possible. It's one of the reasons some Americans view spending a week at a beach resort in Europe a wasted opportunity, much better to occupy your time with all the sights that Europe has to offer however children don't appreciate a constant diet of art, history and culture and would more than likely jump at the opportunity for some water play.

Over the last ten years that we've been visiting the US much of it was taken up with two weeks at a beach resort with several day trips to somewhere of interest. We've visited a number of national parks which have always been the highlight of our visits for me but there is obviously a significant lack of historical sights to visit in comparison to Europe. I recall a visit to Williamsburg, VA where we spent two weeks and as I had an interest in the events of the first settlers we visited Historic Jamestown. I acknowledge that it has a very significant and important history but I don't think it could have been milked any more, the place has become almost a theme park which is a shame as it diluted what could have been a more meaningful experience.

The point is that for many Europeans, we think nothing of travelling all the way to the US and spending two weeks doing very little. Having been to Orlando twice for example (and avoiding Disney like the plague) I have well and truly exhausted whatever the place has to offer so to spend a week or two lazing around a resort or a beach is fine however I can continue to visit Rome until I die however I know that my kids would not share my view and therein lies the difference. For us to take our kids to the US and spend two weeks flitting between water parks, pools, beaches and theme parks is entirely acceptable yet for many Americans, the idea of spending two weeks on the Costa Del Sol flitting between beaches, water parks etc seems a wholly wasted opportunity so I can understand why some choose to leave the children at home when they visit Europe.

Oh boy! We took our three little devils to Hawaii several times, and to many national parks. My yearly cross country flight to visit family was ok, as I would soon have family to help (hubby didn’t visit my family/ cat allergy). I found it much easier to do beach and Disney type vacations because they truly “were cute, well behaved, active little devils”. Once they became tweens and teens, they hated to travel. Grandma and summer camps allowed for us to get away for our vacation, and they for theirs!

Lol JC...I like my nieces and nephew now that they are adults. And a 5 hr flight away. (Winky face). I’m not sure that niece you’re thinking of is still at the same job...she’s got a diff one last year or this year. I can’t keep track. But my sister is still at the same grocery store!

I also think there’s a bigger than proportional difference between 2 kids and 3+. With 2 you can still use the same car and taxi, and get a quad room/2 rooms/or a 1 bedroom apartment with sofa bed. Plus, not related to expense, but getting a restaurant table for 4 is easier than 5. Once you have 3 kids you need to factor in more differences than 2.

Lol JC...I like my nieces and nephew now that they are adults. And a 5 hr flight away. (Winky face). I’m not sure that niece you’re thinking of is still at the same job...she’s got a diff one last year or this year. I can’t keep track. But my sister is still at the same grocery store!

Haha. I think there's always been a high turnover of staff at Gunwharf. It's a very busy place so I'd imagine working in any of the stores is quite hectic job.

To some attempt, I agree with Tom. We traveled extensively in the U.S. and Canada with four kids, even when the youngest two were infants (at least half of it was car camping). I wish we could have done some trips to Europe but time and money were issues. We more recently started to travel to Europe. I was with my 22 and 20 year old sons in Europe about 7 years ago and it was a glorious time with precious memories. I also took my 20 yr old twins to Europe for about 25 days. Also a wonderful trip with fond memories. There wasn't a moment, that anyone wanted to split off. I even suggested that for CERN, one of my daughters could spend some time in the old town of Geneva while the other one and myself did the CERN tour. She declined to tour on her own and while her interests and skills are in primary education, as opposed to her math/physics twin, she wanted to stay with us, and in the end commented on the excellent tour and the presentation of material and how it could apply to teaching. But, then again, I have kids that still, at ages of 29,27,22 and 22, and with a couple spouses, still want to join us for trips. I think key is getting involvement in the planning stage and making sure there is something special/cool for everyone involved. Another important factor would be personalities, of course.

Side note, totally off topic but traveling with kids can inspire some...
A bit extreme....well more then a bit......Hearst Castle in California,
The inspiration for it- his mother took him (William Hearst) on a Grand Tour of Europe as a child. What he saw there inspired him in his 50’s to build it. Many of the design elements (twin tower entrance) came from buildings (art and architecture) that impacted upon him. He was 10 at the time.
You never know what a child sees that might inspire them for a lifetime.

And when the spouse is not traveling with you, the cost is even lower!

Lots more money for beer that way.

Every couple of years a buddy and I take a spouse free baseball trip to follow the Blue Jays. Defintely, most costs are reduced; lesser hotel, lesser quality restaurants, but like you, the beer budget went up.....

I took each of my three kids to Europe the summer they were 11 years old. I got three great trips to experience it all through their eyes, one at a time. So, no extra cost for a room, no sibling squabbles, they were free or cheap everywhere and all three have grown up to be avid, adventurous travelers. And we had the BEST time because they were not too cool to travel around with "mom". As a bonus, they were even impressed with my college French. They were all different in their interests - one could spend hours in an art museum. Another swam across the lake near Neuschwanstein with a bunch of college guys and one went tandem paragliding on a day I lost my mind and let him talk me into it.

Anyway, now traveling with my husband is not really cheaper than that since there are still two of us and we are more likely to splurge here and there.

Lots more money for beer that way.

And time - lots more time

Post ex was a real improvement. Not only do I save on food, lodging and entertainment, I get to pick all my destinations and move at my own pace.

Last trip my girlfriend traveled with me part of the time. During that week it was both more expensive and much slower paced than I'd have done on my own. I guess I'll have to get used to it again.