Going to Italy and Spain in 2014 - when do I start planning?

I enjoy the planning, the research almost as much as going. It's never to early to begin your research. I'm a Rick Steve's disciple, even though I've never had the pleasure of one of his tours. Purchase or get your hands on his travel guides, not just those specific for the two countries you want to travel to. Just taking advantage of this website, has enlightened many of us. Learn everything on the Graffiti wall. We generally will look at RS itenirary and modify and twick it. Hotel wise, we like to use Tripadvisor.com for not only reviews but suggestions on what is there to see and do in the general vicinity. Recently, we've picked a subject, went to u-tube and could visualize where we were going. If you'll provide more info, other members can help out more; will you be driving or travel by rail, any mobility issues, just your one daughter going, etc. Have you traveled to Europe before?

Of course now or tomorrow. Go to the library check out guidebooks, DVDs, etc.,Just spend some time getting a background of what is available, what you like and what you would like to do. You might even watch airline fares at the moment just to get a general idea of what the fares could be in a year. The intense planning for rooms and travel arrangements could start fourth quarter 2013.

Marci, if you have never gone to one of Europe Through The Back Door free travel fairs, I suggest making your way up North to Edmonds and make a day of it. They just finished the Fall fair and I believe they usually have one again in the Spring. It is one way you can start getting excited about the countries you plan on visiting. Like others have suggested, go to your library and check out different guidebooks. I like Lonely Planet, Rick Steve's and Eyewitness Travel guides for early planning and then supplement with Internet searches - Tripadvisor and Lonely Planet forums are great too. This Helpline will be an integral part of your planning tools. There are very knowledgable people on this Helpline that will bend over backwards to give you suggestions and advice. Have fun. Linda

Marci, also I think it is real important for your daughter to be involved in the research and planning. Kids get more out of a trip if they know a bit about the countries they will be visiting.

We are doing a similar trip in 2014 for my oldest child's HS graduation; 1 week Rome and 1 week Paris. We already have dates picked that work with my other child's school schedule as well as work stuff. As others have said start researching where you want to visit and how long you want to stay in each location. You can do preliminary price checks on lodging, transportation, etc based on next summer prices. I will start monitoring airfare at the 331 day mark of our return (when most airlines open tickets). I probably won't purchase until winter though. Once the airfare is purchased I will book apartments (our preference for lodging). I will have a list for each location to check availability and we will have numbered them in our order of preference. If our number 1 is booked we move on to number 2 and so on. We already have a tentative itinerary planned and will also pre-book a few things such as the Vatican and Colosseum beginning after the new year and when each site begins taking reservations for our dates. I find doing as much planning and booking ahead makes the actual trip run more smoothly. This is especially true when traveling with kids (at least mine). Also, we have lots of fun looking at guidebooks and websites, learning about the locations and sites. It's all part of the anticipation of such a wonderful vacation.

HI Jim - We have traveled to London and Paris before in 2010. No mobility issues. Our daughter may bring a friend but we're not sure at this point. We will most likely rent a vehicle for part of the time but will travel by rail for long distances. We know we want to see Rome, Florence, Venice, Tuscany and the Almafi Coast. In Spain we would like to make sure we visit Barcelona and Madrid. Not sure of any other areas in either place that we would like to see since we've never been there. :)

Thank you Frank, Linda, Jim and Marcella! I appreciate the input. We are traveling standby (I know it sounds crazy but we do it all the time and did it going to London!)so airfare is not a concern. I am worried about driving in a foreign country as we did not drive at all in London. I think its a great idea to get my daughter involved in the planning; I think she would enjoy that. I will start doing some research now then! Any suggestions on places to stay or things to see? We may decide to sign up for some tours as my sister-in-law told me it was the best way to get your tickets and not have to wait in line.

NOW, so you get a realistic idea of how much is possible in a 3 week trip,, you may need to pare down your list of places to see a bit. Remember a few things, a travel day is a day that you don't really get much sightseeing done, and when you plan a 2 night stay, you are really only allowing for one full day of sightseeing, so frankly I would plan for minimum of 3 night stays with a few longer stays.
Look at all the pros and cons of renting a car, Italy would not be the easiest place to deal with, and details, like insurance and drop fees need to be examined carefully. Trains are great, but so are some flights, Easyjet and Vueling are two low cost carriers that are fairly reliable, from Rome you could fly to Barcelona for a pretty good deal, IF you book early and do your homework. Spend lots of time reading forums, this one is great, but there are definately some other good ones to look at , especially for very specific information. You can learn from others mistakes, and find out about their hidden gems, short cuts, and ways to avoid long lines and hassles.

Planning and researching for me, is half the fun of the trip. You mentioned you wanted to visit the Amalfi Coast. I hope you can fit this into you itinerary. Personally, it's one my favourite destinations. However, you certainly don't want to be driving a car in this area of Italy. The major towns/tourist attractions along the Amalfi Coast are easily reached by boat/train/and the local SITA bus.

Totally agree with Amalfi Coast, it was great. Scenery fantastic. No need for a car at all. FYI, we only fly standby and Rome in June was the only place we had a problem. Flying from states, we had to leave on Sunday rather than Saturday and coming back on a Sunday, we barely got on, think only two seats left, so suggest you try for mid-week departing and arriving.

Marci, great idea to start planning now! I plan compulsively (I make day-by-day lists of what's open because I pack my trip with museum visits) and then I know what I'm missing if I decide to change the itinerary. Tip: if you do want to visit museums, most are closed on Mondays. That would be a good day to do longer distance traveling. Fast trains cut travel time almost in half, so the traditional notion that you lose a day isn't always accurate, you lose about half a day (counting check-out and check-in) unless you are traveling a great distance or traveling slowly (Venice to Rome is now 4 hours by fast train, it used to be an overnight or 8-hour trip, for example). You can find super-saver deals on trenitalia.com but these fares go fast (usually posted about 90 days before travel date), and once you buy the special fare you can't change the reservation. Within an hour from Venice is Padua which has a lively university culture that your daughter might enjoy, as well as great frescoes in the Scrovegni chapel (you need a reservation). Keep posting as questions arise - it sounds like a great trip.

Thanks for all the help! Pat, we have 3+ weeks. I'm going to start planning the trip and if it looks like we're gonna need more time then I'm gonna take it! :) I want to make sure we see everything; I'm not sure we'll ever make it back. Judy, you sound like me! I love planning and doing research! We take a lot of car trips but with going to another country it's a bit overwhelming for me since I don't know much about where I am going. Gail, we travel standby often so no worries there! And if we get stuck a few extra days in Italy - oh well. My husband is very senior with the airlines as well so it certainly helps. We most often travel on the lighter days but when we went to London we went on a Saturday and made it just fine. We will most likely try to leave on a Monday or Tuesday though. Zoe, sounds like you've been over there a few times! I was thinking Eurail from Italy to Spain but didn't check to see if I could take that to/from different cities in Italy. Once I work on our itinerary and get some dates down then I'll be able to think about purchasing tickets. I was planning on getting my reservations in order a year in advance - do you think that is too soon? Sounds like driving ourselves is out of the question. If you were going to do some tours, which tours would you suggest?

Marci, With the areas you mentioned you probably won't need a car at all. The only "square peg in a round hole" you have is Amalfi because it does not fit logically in any geographical sequence. If you decided to drop it you could do something like this: Fly into Rome Train to Florence (day trips to Tuscan areas) Train to Venice Fly to Barcelona Train/fly to Madrid
Home from Madrid This could also be done in the reverse. If you want to keep Amalfi you could go there immediately after arriving by train or hired car and then back to Rome to pick up the itinerary. My family is not big on moving around so we prefer to spend at least a week in one place taking no more than 2 day trips that leaves us 4 days to explore our main city. We are on vacation and as much as we want to see and do it all there is jet lag to recover from and lazy days to sleep in. If we choose to spend a week in the country with a car then we do more day trips from our home base but only a couple of longer ones. Have fun planning!

I agree with the other replies - it's never too early to begin planning, and be sure to have your daughter doing research as well. One thing you'll learn quickly is that some places connect easily and others just don't. "Eurail" only exists for selling passes and (usually marked up) tickets. When you take trains in Europe, you are not taking Eurail; you are taking trains from the national rail companies of the countries involved. So, going from Italy through France to Spain on a train would involve Trenitalia (Italy), SNCF (France), and/or RENFE (Spain). To research train routes, the easiest way is on the Bahn website. This is for German rail; it has schedules and routes for almost all of Europe, but does not have prices outside of Germany. A quick look from Milan to Barcelona shows that the trip is over 13 hours with 3 changes. If that's not what you had in mind, look at Skyscanner for flights. Remember that both flights and long distance trains are MUCH cheaper when purchased far in advance. With budget airlines, beware of the extra charges; do a dummy booking to see how these add up, and realize that they make a lot of money from people who don't understand that they WILL enforce all rules that increase revenue. For instance, when they say they allow one carry-one, they don't mean one suitcase plus a purse; they mean one bag total.

Marci, I have been to Italy a lot, but not to Spain yet. With regard to making reservations a year ahead, you might need to do that if there's a specific place you want to stay, but otherwise, lots of hotels and B&Bs don't have their rates firm that far ahead. I use booking.com to do research (look at the photos, read the reviews) and I can make a reservation when it seems the hotel/B&B is about to sell out - sometimes this does happen 8 months ahead of my trip, but usually I can find something in the area within 2 or 3 months, or even the day before. You can also sign up for email alerts for cheaper rooms close to your travel date, and most of their listings have a good cancellation policy (usually up to a few days before you arrive). Sometimes I use them for making the reservation (they don't charge you a fee, they charge the hotel), sometimes I contact the place on my own. As for train tickets, a year in advance is probably too far, schedules for Trenitalia are published twice a year and you probably won't be able to get a ticket until 90 days out if you want to save money on a super-economy fare (that locks you into a train, date, and time). RonInRome.com has an excellent step-by-step guide for buying tickets in Italy.

With a year and a half to plan, there is so much you can do. You already have a good idea of your destinations. The public library is a good resource for travel books and videos and guide books - even if they are several years old, the main tourist sites are still the same. You can often find bargains at used book stores too. I'd start with a draft itinerary - just the places you want to see - then use the internet to work out travel from one to another. This is really important, so you get an idea of how much time you will "lose." For instance, from Rome to Sorrento, it's about 2 hours by train, but you have to allow for lead time at the Rome train station and then transfer time in Naples, to the local train which may only run once an hour. From hotel room to hotel room could take 5-6 hours. A one-hour flight can take even longer, since you have to get to/from the airport (usually far from the city center) and allow time for security at departure and baggage collection on arrival. I like to use a calendar-style planning sheet (I use Excel, but paper and pencil with eraser work just as well), blocking out the travel time, and giving me a better visual of how much time I have in each place. Another serious consideration is the weather. Even though you are starting out at the "very beginning" of June, after 3+ weeks, you'll be at the end of the month. Your destinations are all in the south and will be pretty hot with little shade, so don't overestimate how much you will be able to do in a day.

Chani: That is so funny that you said that about a draft itinerary because I am in the process of doing that now. I do need a good map of both countries though; that would help me in the planning process. I am almost thinking it would be better to fly into Barcelona first and see Spain, then go from there to Naples, Sorrento, Amalfi Coast before heading more inland. Obviously I have a lot of time to think about this! :)
Thank you Harold and Zoe for the train information. That is very helpful and I know that'll be one of the biggest challenges is getting from point A to point B. As far as accommodations are concerned we want to do hotels over B&B or hostels. I have looked into some of the hotels and have written down a few that I think we'd like and that are affordable. In the bigger cities we will probably choose the layover hotels for the airline my husband flies for since they usually give a pretty good airline employee rate. Planning this is getting me excited to go!

I like to keep a folder going at all times. Every time I see an article or map in a magazine or website for some place we are going to next, I print it or cut it out and stick it in the folder. As I get closer to the trip, I buy the most recent RG guidebook and begin organizing the folder to match the itinerary. Sometimes I will buy a used RS guidebook just to get my overall strategy together and then the year of the trip, buy the new one and finalize my plans.

Lonely Planet guidebooks are a good resource, too. They cover much more ground than the RS books, but without the personal style.

As for a big map to use for planning and reference, if you're an AAA member you can get one for (if I recall correctly) free. It's called "Planning Map of Europe" and is a big fold-out map, just like a classic American road map. You know, those things that age gracefully in glove compartments and under front seats, and are becoming less easy to find as we all turn to our GPS. The price printed on my 2009 copy of this map is $5.95, which is what I assume they charge you for it unless you can show them your AAA card. Your local AAA office/shop should have the latest edition. If you don't belong to AAA perhaps one of your friends or relatives does, and would be happy to get the map and give it to you. The map is oriented toward roads and driving, and isn't a rail map. But as the title says, it's for planning purposes, and I find it helpful.

I agree with Frank. It's not too early to start learning about the places you will visit. Start at the library and check out anything you can find. If you start on a guidebook and it doesn't interest you, you can simply return it without having invested anything. Travel videos are also great to get some idea of the sights you may visit (or skip). Reading novels set in the places you plan to visit is also a good way to get a feel for the area. Get a rough idea of the places you want to see - that drives transportation choices for me. If it's all cities, trains or busses will work best. If it's smaller towns not served well by public transport, you may need to rent a car. Spain is easy driving, Italy is crazy - bring a good GPS with European maps. I build a list for lodging and call ahead for the night as I'm on the road. As for specific planning. I start tracking potential flights early but usually don't purchase until around 8 weeks prior. Planning early lets you build your itinerary around the best airfares. I've only done standby with the military; it works fine if you have time to kill. I don't expect to really use space A military flights again until I'm retired - I just can't afford to lose a few days on either side waiting for my turn. Be sure to check lots of airport options, days of week, switch directions, etc. so you're ready to take advantage of anything that gets you moving.

All great information! After looking at an online map of the area I am thinking we will start in Madrid instead of Rome. So we will fly into Madrid and fly out of Rome. I have been jotting down names of hotels that appeal to me so that when it comes time to make reservations I have them on hand. I think the biggest issue will be deciding what we want to see in each area. Any suggestions of sites in Madrid or Barcelona area?

I was pleasantly surprised by the naval museum in Madrid. We went because my husband was mildly interested and it was cheap, if not free. There were some nice exhibits, and it was pretty empty. It was a nice change from all the art museums. Not sure if that would interest your daughter. Don't miss churros con chocolat--it's a great artery-clogging way to start your day!

When I started traveling in Europe 42 years ago, my idea of a great vacation was driving as far as I could to as many places as possible. I now know that my high mileage trips are not possible @ $9.51 per U.S. gallon. Italy has so much history, architecture, art and music and is best taken slowly. It's somewhat overwhelming. I try to stay in B&B's outside large cities making day trips into town by public transit. It takes 2 weeks to see Rome the right way. I was earlier looking at visiting a niece in Portugal and touring Spain. Spain is a full trip to itself, as it's a very large country with many "must see's" and great cities. From Southern Portugal to Barcelona is 650 miles. I find it most efficient to visit cities not very far apart that are in the same area. For example, Venice, Florence, Rome, Naples/Amalfi Coast. Or, Munich, Salzburg, Vienna, Prague. Or, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, London. Or, Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm and Helsinki. Travel will be by train, and I'll often rent cars for day trips. Another plus is that these itineraries mix in fun destinations of interest to young people. A duomo is a duomo is a duomo, if you know what I mean. And, I pay close attention to Rick Steves' Graffiti Wall for places to stay and things to do. I've met some really colorful, memorable people using his advice. You were asking when to start planning for a trip 20 months from now. My answer is to wait until 6 months out. Something might happen to cancel your trip, and you don't want to invest too much time into planning. Sometimes, I'll just ramble from place to place with no reservations. Just don't get too obsessive about planning, an have a great trip!

For your plane ticket: 6 months in advance.
For accommodation 6 months in advance. If planning to stay in a popular agriturismo even a year in advance. For train tickets, 3 months in advance so you can take advantage of promo fares. The earlier you buy your train ticket, the cheaper you get it.

The earlier you buy your train ticket, the cheaper you get it. Except for Italian regionale trains or the Circumvesuviana which never go down in price. Italian Regionale train tickets aren't released on the interweb until 7 days prior; they are best bought on the spot and require validating.

Charles's idea of a travel folder is great. I am more digitally oriented (hate paper), so I do it on the computer. I open a Favorites folder for each destination and every time I find a website that may be useful, I add it. Also I start Word documents for each destination, and make notes as I do my research, travel "tips", recommended things to eat, a special event, how to get from the airport to the train station, whatever. I also copy into the documents bits from forums like this one, etc. etc.