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Going to Germany? English is contributing to the “Idiot’s Apostrophe”

The British Guardian newspaper describes something happening in Germany. I submitted this under “General Europe,” as it’s multi-cultural; it mentions English, French, and German. It even calls English a “prestige” language! Rather than attempting a tidy link, I’ve cut-and-pasted the text of the article, with no paywall:
Germans decry influence of English as ‘idiot’s apostrophe’ gets official approval

Linguistic body has relaxed rules on use of apostrophe to show possession, not traditionally correct in German
A relaxation of official rules around the correct use of apostrophes in German has not only irritated grammar sticklers but triggered existential fears around the pervasive influence of English.
Establishments that feature their owners’ names, with signs like “Rosi’s Bar” or “Kati’s Kiosk” are a common sight around German towns and cities, but strictly speaking they are wrong: unlike English, German does not traditionally use apostrophes to indicate the genitive case or possession. The correct spelling, therefore, would be “Rosis Bar”, “Katis Kiosk”, or, as in the title of a recent viral hit, Barbaras Rhabarberbar.
However, guidelines issued by the body regulating the use of Standard High German orthography have clarified that the use of the punctuation mark colloquially known as the Deppenapostroph (“idiot’s apostrophe”) has become so widespread that it is permissible – as long as it separates the genitive ‘s’ within a proper name.
The new edition of the Council for German Orthography’s style guide, which prescribes grammar use at schools and public bodies in Germany, Austria and German-speaking Switzerland, lists “Eva’s Blumenladen” (Eva’s Flower Shop) and “Peter’s Taverne” (Peter’s Tavern) as usable alternatives, though “Eva’s Brille” (“Eva’s glasses”) remains incorrect.
The Deppenapostroph is not to be confused with the English greengrocer’s apostrophe, when an apostrophe before an ‘s’ is mistakenly used to form the plural of a noun (“a kilo of potato’s”).
The new set of rules came into effect in July, and the council said a loosening of the rules in 1996 meant that “Rosi’s Bar” had strictly speaking not been incorrect for almost three decades. Yet over the past few days, German newspapers and social media networks have seen a pedants’ revolt against the loosening of grammar rules.
A commentator in the tabloid Bild said seeing signs like “Harald’s Eck” (“Harald’s Corner”) made his “hair stand on end”, and that the proper use of the genitive form would be bemoaned by lovers of the German language.
A columnist in the venerable broadsheet the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung decried the council’s decision as further proof of the English language’s “victory march”, while one newspaper editor on LinkedIn complained that legalising the “idiot’s apostrophe” amounted to “genuflecting to English”.
Some linguists question whether the rise of the possessive apostrophe has much to do with the influence of English at all, however.
“The familiarity of English names may be a factor, but it could just as well stem from a desire to avoid confusion,” said Anatol Stefanowitsch, a linguist at Berlin’s Freie Universität. “What we tend to see when a language interacts with another prestige language is that it incorporates its vocabulary, and not grammar.”
Even before the rule clarification, the German orthographic council permitted the use of the possessive apostrophe for the sake of clarity, such as “Andrea’s Bar” to make clear that the owner is called Andrea and not Andreas.
“There is a long tradition of conservative circles fretting about international influences on the German languages,” said Stefanowitsch. “It used to be French, and now it’s mainly English”.
The Dortmund-based association Verein Deutsche Sprache tries to counteract the influence of English with an “anglicism index” that proposes alternative German words, such as Klapprechner instead of “laptop” or Puffmais instead of “popcorn”.

Posted by
7956 posts

English-users aren’t immune to misuse of the punctuation mark; writing “it’s” when the meaning isn’t a contraction of “it is,” for example, or trying to express a plural by throwing an apostrophe followed by an “s” at the end of a word, seem increasingly common.

Some homes in our mountain community have signs at the end of the driveway, proudly identifying the property, with “The Smith’s,” for example, or even simply, “Smith’s.” I believe the intention is saying the Smith family, or a single person named Smith owns it. Maybe they meant Smith’s Home, or Smith’s compound, but if there’s more than one Smith, or that doesn’t exactly work, and the thing owned isn’t clearly identified. Maybe there just wasn’t room for all that extra lettering. At least the newer German signs mentioned in the article would say “Schmidt’s Bar,” and not simply, “Schmidt’s.” Or maybe they would … if you have to pay for a sign by the letter, it might be more economical to leave some things out … but then, what does that apostrophe cost?

Posted by
5460 posts

's for possession in English is sometimes referred to as the "Saxon Genetive" so it is kind of going full circle.

Posted by
3009 posts

Typical Guardian.

A simple rule in Germany is that as far as it is a company's or venue's name orthographically you can nearly do what you want. There are just a few legal rules (§17 ff HGB).

Posted by
1022 posts

Hello,
I've already had to edit two posts. Avoid insults and unnecessary hot-button political-ish references. If I have to come back to this thread, I'll remove it.

Posted by
8077 posts

That there is such a thing as a "Council for German Orthography" demanding what's "right", probably explains...

The French also have a similar group, the Academie Francaise. They are largely ceremonial, but make news from time to time as they try to come up with a French word for otherwise English modern, common use, terms, like "email" (please use courriel), to prevent Anglicization of the French language, though they have accepted some terms as inevitable, with only minor changes.

I suppose English has some of the same, though no "Official" groups, in the various Dictionaries publishing lists of "new" words and the odd association that tries to correct or modify grammar rules, that nobody really pays attention to.

Posted by
8979 posts

I think it's great. Poor grammar, punctuation & spelling puts a burden on the person to whom you are trying to communicate, especially to non-native writers. Every now and then you'll see a post or reference to "Rick Steve's". It doesn't signal the end of civilization, but it is annoying if you know it's not right.

Posted by
7935 posts

In England, although they have no official recognition, there is the Queens English Society, which tries to uphold the use of "proper English" [their terminology].

Even though we currently have a King, it is still the Queens English!

Posted by
1346 posts

Cyn, My kids call me a bit of a grammar Nazi because I call out to the tv or radio "fewer", when the word "less" is used incorrectly. And I grind my teeth (metaphorically) at poor punctuation or misspelling. I do feel that spell check, grammar check and autocorrect are responsible for many of our mistakes. We have become too dependent on our word processing systems to do the work our teachers tried to get us to do in grade school. (I am constantly annoyed to see "advice", the noun, replaced by "advise", the verb, in correspondence and on this forum.) I try to proofread my communications instead of relying on the systems installed on my devices, but goofs still slip through. And I appreciate the spelling corrections when appropriate.
That being said, I think I fall somewhere between the "who cares?" school and the dogmatism of the Academie Francaise, as I imagine most of us do. Still, I do miss diagramming sentences. (Those of us who did that in school are becoming a shrinking population.) They were, in my opinion, an effective tool in teaching grammar. And accuracy in writing makes for clarity in reading and comprehension, besides making reading more pleasant.
We make mistakes in any language we use. We try our best. We sometimes succeed and we sometimes fail. Yet we still "write on"!
(And I will not take offense at anyone proofreading what I write and letting me know when I goof up.)
Thanks for introducing an interesting topic, Cyn.

Posted by
14980 posts

Thanks for posting.

When I write in German, I use German rules for punctuation....period. You're quite right in saying. Harald's Eck is wrong. Dead wrong. It should be ":Haralds Eck " or " Peters Tavern." No way am I using English orthography when writing in German...simply unthinkable.

No loosening of the (German) grammar rules for me. RE: English as the "prestige"....I have my own view on that, which better left unsaid here rather than have it deleted.

Posted by
536 posts

LOL, @Judy. I do the same thing. "Less" and "fewer" is my current grammar irritant (and my son's, becase I often interrupt him to say "fewer. Not less.") But it's joining my other irritants, mis-used quotes, unecessary capitalization ("This New Construction with a One Car Garage is in a Great Neighborhood with Access to Shopping and Dining.") and incorrect apostrophes.

It's sort of a running joke in our family that we notice mis-used apostrophes. I see the "greengrocer's apostrophe" frequently in Europe ("pizza 5 Euro's") but I don't fault them. The native English speakers I live among haven't grasped when or how to use the possessive apostrophe; why should a non-English speaker be expected to grasp it?

A less common but no less irritating mistake is "me" vs. "I" usage. I am in a very writing-heavy profession and someone I work closely with gets this wrong all the time. "She's going to send the file to Susie and I." It's ME. SUSIE AND ME.

I have studied German off and on and don't consider myself to be an expert at all (I'm probably a rusty A2 level), but I would definitely adhere to their punctuation and grammar rules, not ours. However, I welcome the creeping use of the so-called "vonitive" instead of the genitive.

Posted by
8039 posts

In the words of Henry Higgins (sorry, Brits; couldn't resist)...

An Englishman's way of speaking absolutely classifies him. The moment
he talks he makes some other Englishman despise him. One common
language I'm afraid we'll never get, Oh, why can't the English learn
to…

set a good example to people whose English is painful to your ears?
The Scots and the Irish leave you close to tears. There even are
places where English completely disappears.

Why in America, they haven't used it for years!

Why can't the English teach their children how to speak? Norwegians
learn Norwegian, the Greeks are taught their Greek. In France
every Frenchman knows his language from "A" to "Zed"

The French never care what they do, actually, as long as they pronounce it properly.

Arabians learn Arabian with the speed of summer lightning, The
Hebrews learn it backwards, which is absolutely frightening. But
use proper English and you're regarded as a freak.

Why can't the English, Why can't the English, Learn To Speak?

Posted by
922 posts

I'm totally changing popcorn night in my house to the much more satisfying Puffmaisnacht.

Posted by
33869 posts

I wonder if garden variety tourists will notice at all

Posted by
1346 posts

Teresa,
I love your idea of changing to German for popcorn! F Hopefully it will rom now on it's puffmaisnacht for me too!

Posted by
282 posts

"A less common but no less irritating mistake is "me" vs. "I" usage... "She's going to send the file to Susie and I." It's ME. SUSIE AND ME."
Yes! Or even worse, "myself!" I hear newscasters use that term way too frequently. "Susie and myself" is so very pompous.

And I agree, our devices are the worst offender. iPhones throw in apostrophes willy nilly, before any "s" they encounter. Booo.

Posted by
1346 posts

Just looked at my last post here. I didn't proofread it! Argh! The typos are all mine!

Posted by
7072 posts

The article's author seems to think that real linguists care about the adoption of apostrophes in business names. Why interview Stephanowitsch, the linguist, who clearly does not give a mousie poop about the borrowing of an apostrophe in this context? The lowly pedants of the "Council for German Orthography" and other non-linguists mentioned, like the FAZ columnist and the Bild commentator, seem to have wadded panties over this. And some unknown segment of the German public does too, to some extent, it would seem. In the context of language change, linguists, OTOH, concern themselves with grammar - and a whole lot more - but not with correctness (or lack thereof) when it comes to petty stuff like capitalization, spelling conventions, and punctuation. Their job involves describing language change, not prescribing it. And as Stephanowitsch makes clear, borrowing an apostrophe in the limited context of business names is never going to impact German vocabulary or grammar. It was polite of him to even respond to the author's questions about this topic, IMO.

Does anyone out there want to consult American linguists about the threat to our English Language posed by Häagen-Dazs or Mötley Crüe??

As for protecting German from the influence of the English language, good luck with that, Verein Deutsche Sprache! The number of English words which are in normal use in everyday German has exploded over the last 50 years or so. Might as well rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Posted by
7956 posts

So, I wonder whether German surgeons are now referring to intestinal procedures as doing a semi colon?

Pre-euro, if someone yelled while slamming down a Deutsche Mark as payment, was than an exclamation mark?

If a German Olympic relay team mishandled the baton exchange on a running event, would anyone criticize them of doing an Idiot’s Dash? That’s harsh. Period.

Posted by
627 posts

Honestly, I am less irritated by the use of the apostrophe for possessive in German (borrowing from its correct use in English) than I am by its unnecessary use in plurals in English. But then, I also correct the radio when they say a person was "hung" (for those wondering, when referring to a person, one uses "hanged") or use less/fewer incorrectly. That said, I am not so pedantic as to say language isn't fluid or shouldn't evolve.

Posted by
7072 posts

I also correct the radio when they say a person was "hung" (for those
wondering, when referring to a person, one uses "hanged") or use
less/fewer incorrectly.

We are indeed wondering about this "correction." The reason "hung" is heard in the media is that almost no one who speaks American English actually uses "hanged" in the passive when the subject is a person, not even media folks. It's an archaic rule that most of us ignore.

The handful who do use it were taught the rule and consciously employ the rule, probably in both writing and speaking, for the purpose of appearing more intelligent or more educated... Problem is, most people find it unnatural and probably wince a little; "hanged" here sounds unnatural, jarring, and because it's rare, possibly incorrect, or possibly pretentious to the average person.

Those who do say "hanged" here probably don't do so consistently but only when they are speaking carefully.

The only other possible reason I see for saying "he was hanged..." is that the speaker wishes to avoid the possible sexual connotation of "hung" as in "he was hung..." but of course context easily clears this up.

Just my opinion, of course.

There have always been and will always be "rules of correctness" that fail to capture the way the language is most commonly used. Language does evolve, which means the rules evolve... Teachers or others who get "hanged up" on enforcing outdated or inaccurate rules will probably succeed in the same measure that grammar instructions issued to the radio succeed.

Posted by
2780 posts

Language is always changing. It doesn’t matter whether or not people like the changes. For example, in English there are no masculine and feminine nouns. It’s much easier to learn the language without them. The rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition is finally being recognized by many language experts as pointless. We should celebrate these changes; they make it easier to learn the language. I am looking forward to a time when “whom” goes away and when the silly lie lay lain rules are simplified.

That said, we all have our quirks, including me. “Myself” is constantly misused. Aaugghh!

Here’s another of my pet peeves: In a time when people frequently forget to use commas, why do so many people insert one like this: October, 2024. It’s not necessary. Just stop it!

Posted by
2863 posts

And speaking of misused commas, or not: There are several instances through here of a missing Oxford (aka "serial") comma. Good old Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style", now over a century old, should have been the final word on that. Whether this is also a Germanic problem, I do not know.

Posted by
1154 posts

As to the matter of "hanged" vs. "hung," my objective is to not have to use the former. It's somebody else's problem.

I've become progressively less irritated by grammatical and punctuation errors. It's not like I can really do anything to improve the general literacy of the American public. Or perhaps I could, but the effort would overwhelm me. Besides, I'm retired. Need to get those tee times lined up.

Posted by
14980 posts

Re: to the OP's post:

"...grammar sticklers...." I am one of these unfortunates, even more so in German. Numerous factors contribute to acquiring German effectively; being a grammar stickler is one of them for me. Unimaginable if I were not that way in German.

"...not traditionally correct in in German...." I avoid that absolutely.

"...proper use of the genitive...." Absolutely ! Learn the genitive case and its usage, master it, and stick with it.

"...German does not traditionally use apostrophes to indicate the genitive case...." True , so use the genitive case properly.