Getting yourself in trouble

We did not get in trouble--but--
We were in Florence, and had just climbed the Duomo. As soon as we are out in the open, woman in front of us, American, pulls out a Sharpie and raises it to write her name on the column. Assuming that was her intent, as my wife, giving up a head to her, grabs her arm back just before she makes contact to the column and rips into her (note, my wife was a librarian, in the public schools). Woman is all "so what, everyone else does it". My wife loudly hectors her around the top until she leaves. Amazingly, no one else says a word. No way for us to alert security. Later that day she notices us across the room in the Duomo Museum, and quickly runs away.

That article above also references a clown on tour in Possagno who jumped onto a large plaster cast of a Canova statue to get his mate to photograph him reclining on it, and in doing so broke off several toes or fingers from it.

I confess that we might have a piece of the Forum at our house-picked up by our 15 mo old daughter and not noticed by my husband at the time. She was really into "rocks" at that point in time. She was also probably one of only a few 15 mo olds who had the word "statue" in their vocabularies.

Not something I myself did, but a transgression I witnessed:

When I visited the Musée de la Musique in Paris in the 2000s, a harpsichord from the 1700s was on display. It was among other instruments on a platform. I don't remember stanchions, but the platform, which was about half a foot high, was clearly intended to separate the instruments from the visitors. I should add that the exhibit hall had a black box design, with dark walls, low ambient light, and spotlights to illuminate the instruments.

A French family, comprised of a mom and dad in their 50s or 60s, and their adult daughter, were drawn to the harpsichord. The mom stepped right up onto the platform and played a few notes.

A docent, who must have heard, came running out and scolded her. Since they were French, and all adults, they really should have known better. Even to me, as an American, it seemed obvious that a harpsichord made over 200 years ago couldn't withstand use by the public.

I also remember thinking that if other people realized that the only penalty would be a verbal reprimand, they would be eager to come and try out such a beautiful, old instrument.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. A "bull in a china shop" mentality is not a French trait, but I do remember when my father invited his French friends to spend part of the summer with us. At Niagara Falls, the teenaged daughter asked, quite earnestly, "On peut nager dedans?" (Can you swim in the Falls?)

Not Europe - but Africa, and not statuary - but fossils. To me, as a now enlightened adult, I have learned a lot of nature is supposed to stay put, in situ, do not touch. So as a gal growing up with a geologist father, I was aghast to have the curator of the Oldavi Gorge Museum suggest I take a fossil or two from the exact area where Mary Leakey first found the ancient humanoid bone fragments that made Leakey famous. Sure there were a lot around, but my understanding was it was a protected area. Not sure what he was thinking.

Some years ago, I was in the National Gallery in London, herding my kids and the children of another family who were traveling with us. I turned the corner to see the elder (13 y/o) son of the other family reaching out to touch the lumps of paint in a Monet painting. The security guard, seeing this, appropriately came unglued, and began to indicate in no uncertain terms how this conduct was not appropriate. Numerous apologies and assurances later, we departed the scene, with the teen asking what the big deal was. His parents and I explained the big deal.

wbfey1, I have learned to put my hands in my pockets or clasp them behind my back in museums. I find the urge to touch things almost overwhelming. Plus, I like to get up really close to paintings, which makes the guards nervous. Having my hands in pockets or behind my back seems to reassure them that I'm not a danger to the art.

I've set off a fair number of alarms in art museums as I leaned forward to try to read the labels. I'm hoping that won't happen now, post-cataract surgery. I do commonly stand with my hands behind my back, but the alarms don't seem to notice.

I believe Hawaii forbids the removal of lava? sand? from some locations. I'm sure that trips people up.

Acraven, my parents visited the black sand beach in 1972 and were told that bringing sand away from it was forbidden
My father was wearing pants with cuffs. Probably somewhere in my mother's house is still that tiny bag w 8 grains of black sand in it.

About 3 yrs later we were all visiting the Apostle Islands and mom picked up from the ground a very twisted stick about 2 feet long. She asked the Park ranger if she could take it home to make into a Thanksgiving centerpiece
He said, only if you invite me to dinner
Poor dude. The stick made it to Iowa but he never did

Our family visited Ostia Antica near Rome a decade or so ago (highly recommended!!). I was shocked that we were allowed to walk right on 2000-year-old mosaics, and because the mortar had disintegrated the stones were loose. It would have been SO easy to pick up a piece of mosaic to take.

I recall a group of Italian tourists who climbed all over the antiquities at Delphi, Greece much to the horror of others who were there. It amazed me that they were Italians as their country is also filled with priceless antiquities And I thought they would be more respectful.

I believe Hawaii forbids the removal of lava? sand? from some
locations. I'm sure that trips people up.

Reminds me of this story from last year. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/sardinia-sand-theft-arrest-scli-intl/index.html

Suki, at times I think the locals see so many ruins (often as the foundations of their several century old house or barn) that they take all of them for granted.

I have learned to put my hands in my pockets or clasp them behind my back in museums. I find the urge to touch things almost overwhelming. Plus, I like to get up really close to paintings, which makes the guards nervous. Having my hands in pockets or behind my back seems to reassure them that I'm not a danger to the art.

I was about to post pretty much the exact same thing. I channel Prince Philip and keep my hands behind my back so that I don't give in to temptation and touch the art. I've yet to be reprimanded by a guard, so I guess it's working!

Sometimes art needs a close look. On our move to Ottawa in 1993, my 10 year old son and I went to the National Gallery of Art. There were these hollow concrete rectangles; raw but smooth on the outside, and inside painted a deep deep cobalt blue. It was on a rough surfaced concrete, but the pigment was so thick it looked like velvet. We stood like Prince Phillip, but son's nose kept getting too close...drove the security guard mad and after 2 warnings, though I knew he wouldn't touch, we had to leave that gallery. I was tempted to get a close up look too, but that would have had us both evicted.

I can't recall getting in trouble anywhere in my touring. I did seem to upset a bunch of Austrians in a beer garden once because I didn't know the national anthem.

I have never had a desire to touch things in museums. I don't know where I learned the "no touch" but it has never been a problem for me. I understand that the things there first of all are not mine, and I don't go around touching other people's stuff.

It makes me very sad to read all of the articles of people damaging antiquities when there is no reason for them to do so other than stupidity. I was especially upset by the Boy Scout leaders who toppled a stack of rocks that had been standing for millions of years with the excuse "It looked unbalanced". I think the scout leader was the unbalanced thing in that case.

Back in the late 70s a trench was being dug outside the naval base at Rota, Spain for something and it cut through what must have been an ancient factory for making amphorae since they were uncovered everywhere. I went there with my car hoping to get the pieces of one to put back together. As I began putting a piece in my car the Guardia Civil guard (the old, hard core, Franco era Guardia Civil) came over and chastised me. Just because of their reputation and power back then, I said I was sorry, put the piece back, and quickly drove away.

The only time I’ve been in Ostia Antica I saw a woman carving her name on a tree trunk with a small knife. I said out loud “what the... is she doing??” People looked at her but nobody said anything, I guess that pocket knife was pretty scary. She didn’t even bother, she was so in the zone. She looked like... not very educated.

I looked for a employee or guide but there was no one around. I was going to tell her to stop but my husband took my hand and said “just drop it, it’s not worth it” and we walked away.

I think of that now and I’m glad my husband was more prudent than me, even with a pocket knife she would still be able to hurt me if she wanted to.

My mother-in-law, who ran a nursery school, taught the children "look with your eyes, not your hands." Too bad more people don't get this lesson.

Speaking of sand, on my first visit to White Sands National Park in New Mexico (highly recommended), I wanted to take a bit home but there were warning signs that it wasn't allowed. However when I got back to my car and switched from sneakers to sandals, I had a lot of the white sand in the shoes. I collected as much as I could and still have a small zip lock bag with about a tablespoon of white sand somewhere.

My friend's daughter-in-law used to make jewelry from the bits of ancient Roman glass she found (here in Israel) while hiking. She stopped quite a while ago, but I suspect it was because everyone was collecting it and there wasn't much more around. I don't think it's illegal since there are still jewelers here making and selling pieces.

Near the ruins of Caesarea, there is a beautiful 6th century mosaic floor in very good condition that was uncovered decades ago. It has African animals and birds - unusual for Israel - so it's believed the artist came from Africa. There is a railing around it and a sign explaining the history, but there is free access, it is completely open to the elements and there's no prohibition against walking on it. On one of my visits, there were 3 local boys around 12 years old riding their bikes over it!

A couple of years ago I was successfully able to steal the Mona Lisa from the Louvre and replace it with a copy I made after watching the movie Incognito - which has a great sequence demonstrating how a forgery (painting) is produced. No one has ever noticed and the real masterpiece hangs in my lower level living room. The crowds that come by to view it are overwhelming so I'll probably give it back at some point. BTW - pretty sure I also have a bit of sand from a beach in Hawaii.

I love the headline for this update on the original link for this post;
Italy Wants Its Tourists Back, Unless They Sit on the Statues
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/world/europe/italy-vandalism-tourism.html

Interesting note in the article, that the woman who was standing on the building may not have known she was doing anything wrong because the rope blocking off the stairs to the roof was set aside. Apparently another family was seen up there as well. Honestly, if I was there and I saw stairs, no signage and other people going up, I may have done the same thing.

I tried to be thoughtful and sympathetic to a tourist who it turns out my have just been naive, but then this from Rome;
https://www.thelocal.it/20200820/italian-police-fine-tourists-450-for-carving-names-in-trevi-fountain
I get clueless people, but I don't get willful damage.

Many years ago (1972?), on my first visit to Stonehenge, one was able to walk freely among the stones. Decades later, a guide told us that the site had been roped off because people had been chiseling off bits to take home as souvenirs. What’s more, they had been doing it for centuries.
I also remember seeing graffiti from the 18th century scrawled on places in Westminster Abbey. Nothing new under the sun, hm-m?

On my first visit of many to Florence, I was walking around "David", just admiring every detail, when a short officious guy with a small group nearby, that I had not noticed until he spoke to me, said "You have to move away, you're not part of my tour, and you can't listen in."
Red rag.....
I looked him up and down, and moved in closer to David and stayed there much longer than I had planned.
The guy huffed and puffed for quite some time.

I got someone else in trouble, and then got blamed for it

It was one of my first days in the Katowice archives. There were no signs up expressly forbidding photographing documents, and in some archives this is allowed and encouraged. I saw an older, European (I think Polish) gentleman taking pictures, so I took out my digital camera and started to do the same.

The archivist swooped down on me and scolded that taking pictures wasn't allowed. I apologized and pointed out that the man was doing it, so I thought it was okay. I even asked if he had a special pass or permission I could also apply for. She huffed away. A few minutes later, she came back into the reading room and apologized to the man, but he could no longer take pictures. I couldn't hear/understand everything, but there were several looks/gestures towards me, so I'm guessing she was telling him that, since I wasn't allowed to take pictures, he was also no longer allowed.

This wasn’t “official” trouble, but I almost got in trouble.....

We were staying at an apartment rental in Switzerland. The listing for the apartment specified washer/dryer, but when we checked in, there were no such appliances to be seen. I asked the agent and she said, no, no washer, you have to go down the street and use the coin op.

Well, I was pretty annoyed. We travel light with a family of five, and a washing machine is #1 on my search criteria when I look for an apartment. Not excited to go down the street and pay 10 CHF per load.

Hoping the agent was wrong, and given the building layout, I guessed there were probably shared laundry facilities in the basement for the apartment owners that we would be able to use, so I went exploring.

Bingo! Found everything I needed in the basement! So I popped a load into the front load washer, shut the door, and started pushing buttons. Nothing. No lights, no beeps, nothing.

So I started looking around and discovered that you need a security card to turn on the power in the laundry room. Rats. Laundry hopes dashed. Went to open the washer door to get the clothes out.... and it had locked and wouldn’t open because..... no power. Uh oh.

So there I was, in the basement of our Swiss apartment building, in the dark, googling the owners manual for the Swiss washing machine so that I could figure out how to unlock the door in a power outage situation and rescue our clothes. Can’t tell you how happy I was when I found the directions, opened the secret access door, found the little tool, pushed on the magic button, and heard the click of the lock releasing. I grabbed the clothes and ran.

That was fun (not).

Oh, come on Deb , you should have kept googling until you figured out how to make the machine wash your load even without a security card...

In 1975, I was 16 years old when traveling with my parents on a tour of Poland. I don't recall where we were (Zakopane perhaps?), but there was some kind of meadow there, and I started to pick some wildflowers. While picking theses wildflowers, I was approached by a man in a military looking uniform (police?), asking me to produce my passport and telling me I was breaking the law by picking wildflowers. I think the tour guide intervened, but it sure scared the heck out of me. I honestly did not know what I did was against the law, as I didn't think these wildflowers were more than weeds actually. The experience left quite an impression on my young mind of the scrutiny, intimidation and oppression people living under communism faced. Btw, I have never picked a wildflower since on any public lands!

My husband was sent to work in Siberia (really) for six weeks in 2008. He called me to say his work colleagues were taking him to a spa on the weekend. Then he called and said apparently its less a spa, more of a luxury outdoors place. Then he called and said apparently its less luxury.

He called me after he got back. It was the woods by a lake. Nothing more. Further, they were unpacking the cooler full of booze, and on the same lake the AA group was enjoying a weekend out.

Finally, he saw some activity, walked over and took some pictures. Oh oh, it was Russian military manoeuvres. He got a very stern talking to (not that he understood it), some threatening behaviour, so he shuffled back to his friends.

Same trip -- in Red Square the fellows in front of him dropped a baggy full of cash. Idiot Canadian he is, he picked it up to chase after them with it. Out of nowhere secret police arrived and frisked him, demanding his passport. After much back and forth, with almost no common language, they let him go. Likely a total scam. I told him in those countries, DO NOT PICK UP STRAY CASH BAGS!

When I was very young and very tipsy in a pub in Mansfield, England, a girl passed by and gave me a kiss, and the kiss ended up being stretched out somewhat. Her bovver boy boyfriend was not too pleased about it.

Allan, thank you for starting a fun thread. I am enjoying the stories.

I also remember seeing graffiti from the 18th century scrawled on
places in Westminster Abbey. Nothing new under the sun, hm-m?

There is not much new under the sun. Like the lion statue in Venice with 11th century runic carvings on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piraeus_Lion

I also remember seeing graffiti from the 18th century scrawled on places in Westminster Abbey. Nothing new under the sun, hm-m?

Made me think, you actually see ancient and several century old graffiti all over, including places mentioned above (Pompeii, Ostia Antica, the Forum and Colosseum, churches, Greek sites, the Pyramids...); and we treat it as a fascinating insight to everyday life, evidence of the everyday Joe's that lived there, even highlighting it on tours, claiming it adds to understanding of history.

Little wonder then that people might seek to add a bit to that history?

As for the original question, I certainly agree the "no touch and leave alone" rule is a good operating principle, but I admit, we often have picked up shells, interesting rocks from the beach or a hike, picked a flower or a leaf for pressing or closer examination. I will not claimed to be reformed, or even repentant for what I have done, and if that were the limit of people's transgressions, then I do not think there would have been an article about it.

Yes, chiseled-in graffiti from century or more ago is almost like a tree's time line, but for history. In the case of Egypt, it is often quite high up the ruin as that was where the sand depth was at the time. Leads to run off of imagination.
But I wonder the age limit for chisel tip Sharpies? Will those markings hold any relevance in 150 years?

I will admit to having picked up a few feathers along the way in Africa. They are tucked into the relevant page of the bird ID book. As I belong to a global bird identification Facebook page, the book comes out off and on...and seeing those feathers again bring joy.
I had one my guide gave me tucked into in my Ecuador ID book. That made me sweat, as there are strict rules for entering and exiting Galapagos Islands so as to not introduce mainland species into the Islands, or leave with contraband and poached animals. Scans, visual inspections of carry on, even shoes. But it passed the scrutiny and is all the more treasured for it.

Maria, thanks for bringing us back to sharpies, I loved the story Larry shared about his wife.

Those above who said their best way to keep their hands under control in museums is to keep them behind their backs or in their pockets should consider the possibility that docents may be concerned that their pockets are full of sharpies. I sometimes rub my pant side seams quietly with my thumbs if I can't think of what else to do with my hands

Numerous apologies and assurances later, we departed the scene, with the teen asking what the big deal was. His parents and I explained the big deal.

Hopefully he understood the lesson.

My story involves dinner at a restaurant in a small town in France. There was a table with a few people speaking a language other than French or English. My wife, who is a native Swedish speaker, said: "They're speaking Swedish." She then said that they were discussing stealing a bottle of wine during the course of the evening. I don't remember if they abandoned their plans at some point, or whether we left before they did.
By the way, "More prudent than me" is perfectly fine.

I actually find the very old graffitti quite interesting. Touring Dover Castle the other week it was intriguing to see graffitti from hundreds of years ago but there's something a bit hypocritical in decrying current day graffitti. In this case I'm quite happy to be a hypocrite.

And don't get me started on 'Love Padlocks'!

Ohhhh, “love padlocks”... hate them!!

Thank you for enjoying the way I write, I really like to see these type of threads, they make me think and remember anecdotes or things I have seen during my travels.

I remember seeing carved graffiti at Tower of London, now protected behind a glass. I realize a prisoner did it, but still it was fascinating to me because it has been there all these years. That’s the type of “graffiti” I like to see, not a full grown adult damaging historical monuments during their travels.

In the 60s my dad swiped a brick from Fort Sumter and added it into the masonry of the house he was building for the family.

Interesting thread, makes me think about 19th-century graffiti I saw on pre-Columbian ruins in Mexico and canyon walls in Utah. At some point graffiti becomes artifacts. (Or is it "graffiti become artifacts"?) Still, I'm thankful those old travelers didn't have Sharpies or, worse, spray paint.

A few years ago a poster wrote about his bad experience in a European art museum after he lightly touched one of the oil paintings. He'd been so enraptured by seeing the art that he just wanted a tactile experience with it. He didn't understand why the guard lit into him. Then all the other posters (us) proceeded to do the same, though some were gentler than others. I think he was a young man from an Asian country and the museum was maybe the National Gallery in London.

A few years ago I was in the National Archeological Museum in Athens with a family I knew, and when the 9- or 10-year-old boy got to the big statue of Zeus with arms outstretched (the one reproduced at the UN) he imitated the pose, breaking a rule he hadn't read about on the signage. A guard chastised him briefly, as did his parents, though his behavior was just innocent exuberance. Not on the level of touching or writing on something, which he never would have done.

The comments about historical graffiti remind me of a visit to Chinon, France last year. In my mind, one of the most interesting photos I took was the graffiti in the dungeon that is preserved and displayed. It is thought to have been carved into the wall by the leader of the Knights Templar while he was a ‘guest’ during the 100 years war.

Has anyone broken the no photos rule at the Sistine Chapel? I really wanted to but chickened out. I will admit to talking in there despite the security guards telling everyone to be quiet. I understand their place their rules, and it's a chapel and so we're asked to be respectful, but since the Vatican is already charging an entrance fee aren't they already being somewhat disrespectful by turning a place of worship into a money making tourist machine?

Hi Allan,

I agree with the point about charging for a place of worship to be visited.

I would guess that a lot of it goes to the upkeep of the interior and exterior considering the amount of traffic daily and yearly.

When I visited the Sistine Chapel, the security guards were instructing everyone coming in to not take any pictures.

Of course you will always get the ones who feel they are above the rules. So the guards had to keep going over and telling the visitors to put their phones or cameras away and to be quiet.

Naturally that was a distraction for the rest of us who complied with the policy.

When I was visiting St. Peter's Basilica, there are very strict rules regarding the Chapel of the Blessed Sacrament.

No pictures were allowed whatsoever. No talking was allowed whatsoever.

There was a security guard just outside the chapel instructing people of this as well as a big sign next to him reiterating what he was saying.

A couple of people visiting the chapel decided to ignore all that; took out their phone or camera and began snapping away.

They were caught by the security guard who made random checks into the chapel for such things.

The offenders were tapped on the shoulder and motioned to leave.

Out of curiosity, I got up and went out of the chapel to see what was going to happen - one guard radioed to another guard and the people were escorted out of the Basilica.

I have no idea if they were allowed back in later on because I went back into the chapel.

The Italians don't fool around with that stuff.

I was secretly glad that the offenders were called out for their actions.

It is not like they were unaware.

They were instructed by the guard. They were instructed by the signage. They should have known better - when you go into a chapel like that, it is for peace and quiet reflection and prayer.

Being ignorant or playing dumb in a situation like that does not fly with me either.

Photographing 'no photography' images. I was int he Musee d'Orsay a few years ago and it was under construction, so Rick's tape wasn't useful given the amount of moving of art going on. It clearly was signed EVERYWHERE that no photos were allowed. The layout was hectic. As it was August, and a day other museums were closed, it was easy to avoid any security guards present in the displays. I noted a woman photographing art...which would have included the 'no photography' pictogram. I pointed to it and said in English, it wasn't allowed. She shrugged and kept on snapping....so, for the next 35 minutes I followed her and photo bombed every attempt. I hate being in photos, but I ensured I was in the way of every attempt. If I had readily seen a guard, I would have pointed her out, but instead I just made a nuisance of myself and ticked her off.

I feel I did my tourist's civic duty.

Good job Maria!!
You and Mrs Larry are my idea of a dream team.

...makes me think about 19th-century graffiti I saw on pre-Columbian
ruins in Mexico and canyon walls in Utah.

Dick, we've probably seen some of the same graffiti in Utah, both painted and carved. Capitol Reef does consider "Pioneer Register" an artifact of sorts. Some of the settler's "graffiti" was picked out in bullet holes!

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pioneer_Register_Capitol_Reef_NP.jpeg

At the same time - and I'm thinking about the tourist who touched the oil painting? - there is a sign at the start of the 3.5 mile trailhead to the Great Gallery/"Holy Ghost" panel (Canyonlands Horseshoe Canyon Unit) warning hikers not to touch the pictographs; not even ONCE! They are some of the most important "rock art" images in North America, are very, very old, and the oil/dirt in one's hands can damage them. Same with any other pictograph. On our way along the canyon, we'd passed other prehistoric pictographs (Alcove Gallery) that had been sadly vandalized with modern graffiti. Fortunately, despite its very remote location, there's usually a ranger posted at or near the Great Gallery to protect it.

Editing to add: as mentioned above, there is some very amusing old graffiti at Pompeii. :O)
http://ancientgraffiti.org/Graffiti/searchPompeii

I once accidentally set off the alarm in a museum in Berlin about three times, because there were some tiny, intricate postcard-sized collages by Max Ernst and I couldn't see them properly without getting what the infra-red detector thought was too close.

The best story I know about is an online friend who went to Albania a few years ago and thought that a particular notice in Albanian, with the Albanian coat of arms, by the entrance to a forested area meant "national park". Unfortunately, it meant "military secure area"...

I’m with you Maria.
I would have helped you with the photobombing!

When my husband and I were on our honeymoon in London in 2004, we took a day trip to Hampton Court. We didn't realize we weren't supposed to take pictures inside. We found ourselves in the "haunted gallery", where Catherine Howard was reported to have run screaming down the hall, trying to get to Henry VIII because she was about to be arrested, but didn't make it and was dragged back to her room. Being a Tudor nut, I definitely wanted a picture, so my husband snapped one of me standing in the hallway. A guard, or docent, I'm not sure which, caught us and told my husband he would have to be beheaded, no pictures! But he didn't take our camera or make us leave. Of course we apologized and he was actually pretty good humored about it. And I have a great picture!