Getting what we pay for or bad service?

It is getting what you paid for when you don't do the research to know what you are buying or assume or when you don't read the fine print

So that link just goes to a bunch of newspaper pages so I don't know what article you're linking to.

I have lived in Germany for 8 years to an acceptable level of service is whatever the F they're gonna give me. No use arguing about it, as it is what it is. Americans are obsessed with customer service, and some cultures have that in their bones and others laugh at the idea. Germany is somewhere in the middle.

As for getting what you pay for, I just paid $25/return for flights to Croatia. Our return fight was delayed by 2 hours. We drank a beer at 7am and we were still getting an amazing deal. Travel is cheaper and now more accessible to everyone. It can be uncomfortable but historically, travel was never comfortable. It's always a pain in the ass, and for most of us, it's usually worth it.

travel was never comfortable you bet. We flew in suits or dresses, pantyhose and high heels (and sometimes hats) dragging two 30 inch suitcases behind us 'cause there were either no wheels or those tiny 1 inch ones and a side bag handle ;-)
I am a public transport commuter. I think I am inured to the discomforts of flight travel.
I don't put high expectations on service and don't make a lot of demands. I find making an effort to be calm and understanding (even if fake) nets better results and I rarely have truly bad service.

There are so many characteristics involved with airline service, and so few choices, that it is difficult to "vote with your wallet" and be heard. You can't choose "the airline with the larger seats" or "the airline with the better meals," because they are all more-or-less the same. Yes, you can go for business or first class, if you want to pay many times more than the price of an economy ticket. Most people fall back on the two aspects that offer much choice: schedule and price. The airlines feel free to skimp on everything else, because it doesn't make any difference--the more so because all of them are skimping.

Hi,

If it is the flight you are referring to, then there is some truth to it. I don't care much about it anyway, as long as the price is right, I am willing to put up with and sit in the non-stop sardine can in Economy for ca 11 hours, looking at my watch every so often to see how much flight remains before landing, if I am not asleep at the moment. Every time I wake up, I look at the watch to see how much closer it is to arrival.

True, you do get what you pay for...generalisation is valid most of the times. In France customer service is more chancy, hit and miss, the main thing if the customer service is lacking, then does that bother you. Usually no in France.

In Germany I don't have a problem with customer service in a tavern or restaurant. If really necessary, I just say, "Wird's hier bedient?" ( good use of the passive voice here to get your point across)

Sort of like that "free tour" concept. You and 40 of your new best friends get a scripted tour from someone who just moved to the city last month, get told a bunch of stuff that may or may not be correct and you leave that particular city thinking you now know something about it. These tours have sprouted like a fungus across Europe, with many people not caring about how much time and effort go into becoming a professional tour guide, they just want a cheap, free tour. Toss the guide 5 euro for a 3-hour tour and you can go home believing you know Amsterdam or Berlin.

Flying is by far much too low priced for the real costs it is creating if you include environmental issues. To be fair priced we shoul put 50-80 USD onto the flight price for every ton of CO2 used which is of course different for first than for eco class.

So cross-Atlantic you can add 500 to 800 USD per direction. Not for more service - just for wasting our climate more than others and regulating the damage out of it. This will come sooner or later in your own interest. It is right infront of your door since years.

BigMikeWestByGodVirginia (Almost Heaven) describes is the result of air fare deregulation. A while ago, Consumer Reports did an analysis of the effect of deregulation on flight prices and concluded it did not reduce air fares. What it did was enrich airlines by making air travel more uncomfortable.

Before deregulation, coach seats were about as comfortable as today's domestic "first class" seats. Everybody got a hot meal. Since prices were fixed, airlines 'competed' on customer service, and here's how that worked. We were flying from Dakar to NYC when my wife realized she had left her sweater in our hotel in Dakar. I reported that to the Pan Am stewardess, and about 3 weeks later, the sweater arrived in the mail.

I strongly disagree with the statement that deregulation didn't really affect airfare prices.
The USA deregulated airfares in the late 70s. I remember looking at flying to Spain from Atlanta in 1971 and the fare was over $400 US. I have flown to Spain from JAX, Fla for $1000. $400 in 1971 dollars is probably the equivalent of $2000. Also, I can fly to Texas for around $200 in the early 70s that RT was about $75 (probably equivalent of $350-400.

Further, I lived in Germany in the early 80s. Flying within Europe (before Euro deregulation) was ridiculously expensive. We always took the train. Now, you get very cheap tickets all over Europe.
Yes, the service is not as nice, we don't get a meal on a 2 hr. flight like we once did, but I can buy a sandwich for $7.

We fly three or four times a year and overseas two of those times. Service on transatlantic flights are still excellent. We get free wine with the meal and more if we like.

I'm with MarkK.

I don’t expect first class service when flying a lesser cabin. That said, I usually pay more for an extra leg room seat and to me my plane ticket is one of the bigger expenses of traveling to Europe. What I do expect is courteous and efficient service. A few airlines still do a decent job of this. I wish they all did especially on a long international flight.

I’ve flown Norwegian Air twice, and will again this Fall. For $475, r/t, non-stop, SF-Paris, i’ve had really nice flight attendants, very good on-board service, comfortable seats, an awesome plane (Dreamliner).

I don’t know why a lot of posters prefer legacy airlines for more money (often a lot more). Every time i’ve flown a legacy airline everything was miserable, the seat, the service and the plane. And from posts i’ve read here over the years, that’s most people’s experience in Economy.
Splain it to me Lucy... : )

Customers are often the catalyst for rudeness. Common courtesy is increasingly a rarity. I believe in the long run we reap what we sow.

Susan, I know several people that have had negative experiences with Norwegian Air.

I have had great success with Delta, Air France, KAL and KLM. In the USA, I sometime fly Southwest, but these days, I don't find them a huge bargain anymore.

@susan, when you fly from cities that don't have direct service from the budget airlines, as many of us do, then flying the legacy airlines is often less expensive and more reliable than booking separate tickets to connect to budget airlines from gateway cities.

stan, Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

geo, I believe you. I’d want to ask them though if their problems were with flight attendants, seat comfort, on-board service or the plane - or was it flights delayed or changed, which can happen with any airline. I’m pretty sure you won’t find any airline without complaints.

I have 3 friends who’ve flown NA at least 6 or more times each and they all share my experience and opinion. I’m just saying, in my experience, NA gets an unfair bad rap on this forum.

Stan: isn’t KC now served by Icelandair?

Norwegian has limited service to North America, just a few cities really, Condor serves more cites (although they’re not cheap anymore).

I’m with both the Europeans on climate change, I don’t understand why Americans embraced energy conservation so passionately in the 70s/80s but show little interest in saving energy (reducing carbon footprint) now.

@Tom, yes. Icelandair does provide seasonal service to/from KC (May through Sept - high season). I was going to mention it in my response, but took that out for the sake of brevity. But that flight just started last year, and the cheap tickets are somewhat hard to get. My reply was intended to cover more than KC, as I infer that other travelers in flyover country have the same issue. I see those cheap fares from NYC or Boston to Europe, but the connecting flight from KC (and other midwest cities) to the gateway is often more than the overseas flight.

@Susan, there are over 100 US international Airports. Norwegian air flies to about 17, and most of those are clustered in Florida or around NYC. That doesn't take into consideration the hundreds of regional airport that feed the populations of the country Norwegian doesn't even get near. They fly to 1 city in Canada.
By the time you add transport to that city, an overnight stay, and the time involved to get there (possibly an extra day's vacation or on less trip day), you pay less on a legacy provider.
People able to fly to Europe non-stop is a minority.

I too am with MarkK in theory. I want to know that my money is really going for a useful carbon offset. I used to always buy a carob offset at the end of each year but the research I did wasn't very positive on the usefulness so I'm in search of a better option.

Now, I have to fly from a small airport that only has 3 carriers ... Alaska, which doesn't fly to Europe and got rid of all the good partner airlines that do. Delta and United. We mostly fly Delta with partners like AF or KLM. KLM city hoppers within Europe seem like a good deal to me. And sometimes we fly out of Vancouver BC as we have found some pretty amazing prices from there.

Maria, good points you and stan made. I now see why more people aren’t able to benefit from Norwegian Air.

My local airport options are United, Delta, American, and Allegiant. If I'm willing to drive 1:15 one way to an alternate airport, I can add Frontier and Southwest to that mix.

So connect through Atlanta is is, since Delta/SkyTeam is generally the most humane option with a reasonable price and routing and the ability to rebook me in a timely manner if I'm going to miss a flight or connection. I have connected through Atlanta for enough flights at this point that I get a little excited if I end up close to the E concourse gate that has the giant ear of corn sculpture because there is something oddly charming about the giant ear of corn. And as long as there's time, I've got to walk the rainforest tunnel between the A and B concourses....