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French, German, or Italian?

To best prepare for my future trip to Western Europe, which language(s) should I focus on learning? I already speak English and Spanish fluently. I took one semester of French in college, written French has some similarities to Spanish but pronunciation wise-- not so much. Spoken Italian is a bit easier for me to understand a few words here and there.

I've read that German helps a bit with Scandinavian countries I feel like out of the 3, Germans are most fluent in English so it may be a better use of my time to focus on the other two, especially French.

My library has Pimsleur which is great since I can only learn a language by hearing it and repeating it, reading does not help much. Is it wrong to focus on speaking and listening, not so much reading or writing the foreign language?

Posted by
23267 posts

English pretty well covers it unless you are going way off the beaten path then, of course, it would be the local language. And the Scandinavian countries probably have more English speakers than the other countries. Remember English is now the common language so most signs will be local and English. You have it covered so pick the language you are most interested in learning.

Posted by
7356 posts

Learning niceties, like “Hello,” “Goodbye,” “Please,” “Thank You,” “Excuse me,” “Where is...”, etc. is alway helpful, but are you wanting to carry on involved conversations with locals? You may know that Rick Steves’ phrase book is a 3-in-1 French/German/Italian publication, so those last gauges would seem to be the “Big 3” worthy of a book by him. As you mentioned, speaking Spanish, being a Romance Language like French and Italian, would seem to be a helpful foothold (tongue hold?) for communicating any of those languages, but maybe not so much once you’re over there. It can depend on the situation, and with whom you’re speaking.

More and more over the past 20 years, Europeans, especially those in the Travel industry, speak at least some -or fluent- English. If you’re needing to buy something, or get directions, people in bigger cities or towns are likely going to be able to help you, even if you don’t exactly speak their native language. Smaller villages, and older (maybe 40+ years old) residents, who aren’t running a hotel, driving a taxi, selling tickets to a museum or transportation, or waiting a table at a restaurant, might not speak English (or even Spanish) so readily.

I’ve studied French, and can speak and read some Spanish. Unless trying to figure out a sign, where that’s helped some times, if you’re planning on talking with someone, then speaking, not reading, will do you more good. Italian in restaurants and catching trains has been where I’ve mostly wanted to use it. German - I can order 2 beers, and that’s about it, so that’s where I would need to start learning, but that’s just me.

Where are you spending the most time, and will you be in less-populated parts of countries? Or will you be in bigger tourist-orientated locations, where English speakers are pretty present?

Posted by
27109 posts

You'll almost certainly find the transition from Spanish to Italian easier than from Spanish to French. I believe English is more widely spoken in France than in Italy, though in tourist establishments you may observe no difference. French folks often claimed to speak only "a little" English but were then able to converse very well with me, so I wouldn't necessarily trust self-reported statistics on fluency in that country. I believe the French may be too modest.

I'm less sure of the situation in Germany, but English and German share a linguistic family. For you, with a Spanish background, I think Italian will be easier than German. While the quite old folks in central Europe (Hungary, Czechia, etc.) may still have some facility in German, I think the young are more like to speak English these days.

Some middle-aged people in central Europe may have had Russian-language classes, but they are unlikely to want to use that language. Russian is hard enough that I wouldn't spend my limited study time on it unless I were planning a trip to Russia itself. (Or perhaps to Bulgaria or Belarus.)

I stand ready to be corrected by folks who actually live in any of the above-mentioned countries.

Posted by
3595 posts

German is really difficult because the grammar is so different from English. You have to become accustomed to listening for the verb prefix in the middle of the sentence and the root at the end, to name just one pitfall. Also you will find more English speakers in Germany than in Italy or Spain, though English is rapidly becoming tha lingua franca in Western Europe (maybe Eastern, too). I also doubt that learning German would be of use in Scandinavia because the languages of those countries sound very different from German, and most people there are quite fluent in English.
Since you have a step up into French, that is where I’d put my efforts.

Posted by
985 posts

Learning languages makes you smarter. If you want to be understood, you need to learn about the field of phonology and gain the ability to articulate speech sounds that are not speech sounds in the way you talk English. I don't like the idea of learning a langage by listening to it because I am quite aware that I cannot repeat something I hear. I can only "repeat" a version of what I hear that is distorted with the sound pattern and nearest phonemes from my own version of English. Even when you visit another English speaking country you might want to change your pronunciation to match who you are talking to.

If you only care about preparing for a trip to Western Europe, you are putting way too much effort into language learning. You don't have to teach yourself a language comprehensively. Just teach yourself certain words and phrases. The vast majority of your trip you will not be talking.

Other details:
There is very little essential information you will need that can only be gained by talking to somebody. You don't need to decode restaurant menus. Just look at the staff or waiter and say something simple like "I want [name of a food you want]" and see what you get. Or just look up the word for a specific food you want and scan for that specific word. Don't try to read labels in grocery stores. Just scan for the word for the thing you want. Don't worry about the announcements on public transportation - just count the number of stops. I don't remember the staff of any grocery store in Europe trying to talk to me. When I worked in a grocery here in the USA, the staff was requited to say hello and do a certain amount of polite talking or conversing with every customer. In my experience the staff of museums, stores, and sites in Europe did not try talking to me. They are quite used to visitors who don't speak their language. I bought some items from deli counters in stores in Italy even though I barely knew any Italian. American's might expect strangers to talk to them; in other countries natives might get creeped out when strangers try talking to them.

Edit: I intuitively feel like it is an embarrassment to try talking English to non-English speakers, even if they turn out to know some English - they might think you are not smart enough to realize that other languages exist.

Posted by
7049 posts

French is by far the most widely spoken in other parts of the world outside of Europe, whereas Italian and German is considerably more limited. For that reason alone, l would select it - it has more utility. I did not find German hard to learn, it was easier for me than Italian (l studied both for many years). I doubt German would help you much at all in Scandinavian countries, which have their own distinct languages and high English fluency.

Posted by
841 posts

I think learning some French, German or Italian will add enjoyment to your travels, whether you learn a few phrases or enough to converse with people you meet. I used Pimsleur to learn some Polish (they only have 30 lessons) and I used the little I knew quite a bit. I even was able to give directions to a lost Polish couple In Zakopane (a mountain resort). It helped that I had a map and they didn’t!

My partner and I both speak intermediate French and we use it often when we travel. We had a delightful dinner in Sicily at a communal table with 2 French speaking families and 2 English speaking families and our conversation drifted from English to French, back to English. It was great fun. We have also used tourist information printed in French when English copies have run out, or gone on French speaking tours when English speaking tours were not available. The times when you absolutely need a foreign language might be rare, but that doesn’t mean learning a language is not worthwhile.

I don’t think it matters how you start. If listening and repeating is a good way for you to learn, go with it.

Posted by
2822 posts

If you're already fluent in Spanish then I think either French or Italian will be pretty easy for you. Both are Latin based (as is Spanish) so a lot of the vocabulary will be the same. The pronunciation and sentence structure may vary somewhat but that's where the Pimsleur lessons will really be of help I think.
As has been mentioned, English is likely to be widely spoken in any of the tourist-frequented areas you're likely to be visiting. It's only when you venture off the beaten track that you may encounter people who speak only the local language. I wouldn't let that deter you from working your way thru any of the Pimsleur courses however, which for you will probably be a snap.

Posted by
6501 posts

I like Pimsleur too, from my local library, but it helps to also have a phrasebook on hand so I can see how words are spelled. I expect most of us learn best by hearing and repeating, but that's easier for me if I can look things up as necessary. Seeing the written word often helps me pronounce it. And certainly a phrasebook is useful on a trip.

If you're fluent in Spanish you'll find it easier to learn French or Italian. I picked up enough Italian for a satisfying trip, with Pimsleur's help, after having taken French in school and learned some Spanish on trips to Latin America. German is probably a harder language to learn, as another poster noted. But my impression is that Poles, Danes, Dutch, Czechs, and others in central and northern Europe are more likely to know some German than a romance language.

Another way to approach this might be to decide where you want to go and then use Pimsleur + phrasebook (or some other method) to learn what you need in the language(s) of your destination(s). Then your travels will be driven by what you want to see and do, instead of what language you've studied.

It's true that English is widely spoken in the European tourist industry, but it's possible that this will change over time as continental Europe decouples from the UK and US. Not a change I'm likely to notice at my age, but our grandchildren may have a different experience.

Posted by
6375 posts

German certainly helps a bit in Scandinavia, but to be honest English usually works better. Most Scandinavians speak better English than German, although you might find some older persons who went so school when German was the first foreign language taught.

The big benefit of German in Scandinavia is the written language. The Scandinavian languages are all germanic and there are many common words that might use different spelling, but are still more or less the same. A German speaker can't buy a Norwegian newspaper and expect to understand the articles, but the languages are close enough that it makes is easier to understand signs (even if there are false friends). The same is true with Dutch. Spoken Dutch can be hard to understand, but written Dutch is not that hard for German speakers.

German is the biggest language in Europe by native speakers and is of course best of use in the German speaking areas, Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and the German speaking areas of Belgium, Switzerland and Italy as well as other countries with German speaking areas or minorities. But it can also be useful in areas behind the former Iron curtain. Wikipedia has some nice data about what languages are spoken where: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union#Knowledge

Is it wrong to focus on speaking and listening, not so much reading or
writing the foreign language?

That is up to you how you plan to use the language. But in my opinion, many people who want to learn languages for tourist purposes focus too much on the spoken part and too little on the written part. Being able to read signs is a big advantage. Yes, information signs at major tourist attractions are likely to be multilingual. But being able to read basic signs is very helpful.

Or just learn what RS has learned--none.

One of the reasons he is not that popular on other forums.

Posted by
1549 posts

Unless you are spending a long time in either country, do what Cyn says. I try to add as many food and menu items as I can, plus place names and directional terms. I stump more for pronunciation than amount of words, influenced by two interviews I watched many years ago. One was with the novelist Jorge Borgas (I enjoy fantastical writing, in the right hands); he made fun of the way the majority of English speakers pronounce Don Quixote. The other was a Latin scholar, who said that many motivational speakers liked to use the phrase 'carpe diem', also mispronounced on a regular basis. Still, I was somewhat embarrased by the way I pronounced Fiesole on my trip to Florence.

Posted by
16247 posts

Like Agnes, I found German easy to learn, compared to Spanish and Italian.

I studied German using the "structural approach" in a textbook by Stanford professors Lohnes and Strothmann. It helped make sense of the "verb last" sentence structure, and I never had trouble with that.

In Spanish I have the most trouble with word order, as in whether to put direct and indirect objects before or after the verb. And does the adjective go before or after the noun it modifies? It depends.

In Italian, the pronouns cause me the most problem, but I do find it easier than Spanish. And it is the most fun to speak---I love the sound of it. My husband and I have fun reading out the names in the credits after we watch an Italian movie. They are so. . . . Italian!

For some reason, I never had trouble with word order in French, but Instudied that in high school and haven't had to use it since.

German does help me with reading Danish and Norwegian, but not with understanding the spoken word. And English is so widely spoken there that you can just use that without apology.

To answer the question, I would say that French might be the most useful to you, given that you already know Spanish. You should be able to understand a lot of Italian using a combination of the French and Spanish. Just don't try speaking Spanish back to an Italian as a substitute---that got a friend of ours in trouble.

Posted by
15807 posts

To best prepare for my future trip to Western Europe, which
language(s) should I focus on learning? I already speak English and
Spanish fluently.

Just curious, how long will that trip be for, and for which countries, and for which destinations within those countries? While admirable to want to learn a foreign language, to become fluent what the locals speak, in the local dialect, is different than what we Americans might call "fluent." For instance, a sibling of mine thought she was fluent in college-level U.S. Spanish until she went to Spain as was faced with Castilian Spanish and Catalan.

Posted by
8440 posts

Its all about the commitment in time. I think reading is more important for a traveler (not so much writing) so that you can read signs, like a train schedule, "Out of Service", basic menu info, road closed. "avalanche warning", "push vs pull" on a door, etc. I've had classes in all those languages prior to trips. I'd say study the language of the place you are going to spend the most time. The audio courses like Pimsleur, help you "hear" the cadence, but you cant get a big vocabulary without a huge commitment in time. If you're going to multiple countries in one trip, I'd learn the very basic words in each language, because you're less likely to try and speak German to someone in France than English. For example, going into a French shop and greeting them in German, is probably more confusing than saying it in English. In other words, best to learn "good morning" in all four languages, than more phrases in just one.

Other people say that Spanish and Italian have a lot of similarities, making it easier to learn. But that can get you in trouble, and there are too many dialects and accents to be confidently speaking. I found French easier to pick out what they were talking about, but German easier to pick out by reading.

Posted by
9567 posts

To me, I can’t learn how to speak without knowing how to read. While I am first learning a language and then first really putting it to use in practice, I am always envisioning in my mind what the sentence looks like grammatically. I am always (still!) matching up in my head the correct conjugation/adjectival agreement/ whatever with how I am crafting what I want to say.

I know that it’s not true for everyone, that some people ARE able to learn “by ear,” because that’s how my husband learned French. He speaks it almost perfectly, but if he writes anything down, it is riddled with errors - it’s clear he has no idea what the grammatical rules are, although he somehow uses everything correctly in the way it sounds.

As to which language might be more useful, I agree with others that German wouldn’t really be that helpful in Scandinavia or the Netherlands, precisely because English is spoken so well in all those places.

So just pick whichever language would seem to be more fun to you and/or is the most relevant to where you want to travel.

(As someone who has studied both Italian and Spanish, while yes they are closer to each other than either is to French, it’s precisely that closeness that trips me up. I find I am able to cordon off French better in my mind and keep it separate and correct — I get way more crossover interference between Spanish and Italian. Of course that’s also down to the fact that I am essentially fluent in French (even with my Okie accent), while I am not nearly fluent in either Spanish or Italian.

Posted by
374 posts

Edit: It seems like French would give me the most bang for my buck. Switzerland is a dream destination for me. I don't really see myself spending much time in Northern Europe so German wouldn't be the best use of my time. I feel Italian would be fun/easy to learn but outside of Italy, where in Europe would I be able to use it?

So I decided to primarily focus on French with Italian being a little side project.

Today I had a Pimsleur lesson back to back, I don't think I'll be able to do both simultaneously because I got confused. The lessons are the same except for their foreign language counterpart. This first lesson was about asking the person if they understood English and saying you only speak a little bit of French/Italian. I even took an hour break in between the two languages and I still got my vocab mixed up.

Posted by
6375 posts

Edit: It seems like French would give me the most bang for my buck.
Switzerland is a dream destination for me. I don't really see myself
spending much time in Northern Europe so German wouldn't be the best
use of my time.

What parts of Switzerland? On a national level there are four official languages in Switzerland with German being the by far most spoken, but most cantons are monolingual.

I feel Italian would be fun/easy to learn but outside of Italy, where
in Europe would I be able to use it?

Switzerland. It is also a very useful language in Albania.

Posted by
6534 posts

My vote is German. By knowing Spanish you’ll be able to understand, or at least recognize, some words in French and Italian, as many are similar. While you won’t be able to carry on a conversation you will (for the most part) be able to navigate a restaurant menu. Then again, if you feel you’d use French or Italian more on subsequent trips, learn the one you’ll use most.

Posted by
1307 posts

In my opinion, French would be a better choice.
Some years ago a good friend of mine with a major in Spanish spent a month in Italy and had no trouble understanding or being understood just speaking Spanish. She is very friendly and outgoing and was able to converse on trains with the Italian passengers. She and her husband were even invited to visit some of these people in their homes, which they did.
The French are so appreciative of our attempts to use their language... even when they respond in English they will give you a much friendlier reception.
Enjoy your trip!

Posted by
7662 posts

I have lived in Germany (four years) and traveled to all the countries in Europe, except a few in the former SU.

I don't recommend Italian, since Spanish is very similar and many Italians would understand it.

In Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia, practically everyone speaks English. German would help you a bit in some Eastern European countries.

You can do fine in France without French, but many French, especially Parisians don't like to use the English that they know. I would go with French.

Posted by
864 posts

My experience is much like that of geovagriffith, France and the Eastern European countries had fewer English speaking natives, but that didn't make for any major difficulties. I speak German at about the 6th Grade level, and read Spanish better than I speak it.

If you must put time and effort into learning one of those three languages German would be best if you're working in the medical or scientific professions, because, along with banking, there are requirements for most technical publications to be done in German. French and Italian are "Romance" languages, and have the same roots, although the pronunciation is different. Portuguese is the same.

The major issue I have with language learning is that, in Europe, they become very idiomatic depending on the region you're in and most courses don't teach that. There's as much difference between Hoch-Deutsch and Bayrisch as there is between Portuguese and Spanish.

Posted by
2311 posts

I agree that you will probably have no problem in Italy since you speak Spanish. My sister in law is a native Spanish speaker from Mexico. On a trip to Italy, we discovered that she could understand quite a bit, and communicate with people who spoke Italian to her. Enough to be our designated shopper. She was able to negotiate much better prices speaking Spanish than I was getting when I spoke English!

Posted by
2401 posts

I’d go with whichever country you think you will spend the most time in. Be honest about how much of a language you really need to travel. We traveled to Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, and Germany a couple of years ago. Wife speaks all 5, I speak Spanish and German, but in reality we didn’t need to use them much. However, we did choose to use them whenever we spoke - no sense in wasting all that education!

Posted by
985 posts

German. If you are only going to pick from one of German, French, or Italian.

Actually, which one of the 3 doesn't matter for the sake of travel. Learn a language, and not limited to the 3 you picked, for your own edification because you find a culture, literature, and/or country appealing, not because you think it would be useful for travel.

Or study the language of the country(s) you are going to travel to next: German if going to Germany, Austria or parts of Switzerland, Dutch if going to the Netherlands or Dutch speaking Belgium, Catalan if going to Andora or Catalonia or parts of Spain, Danish if going to Denmark, and so on.

After your next trip, between seeing museums, monuments and everything else you do on your next trip, I think we would be interested in a report on how much you actually talked to natives of the countries you visit or travel through.

Posted by
14507 posts

On those trips where my knowledge of French was absolutely zero, I used English and German in France, have used German in Sweden. along with English either as the first or second language.

My view is it all depends on the interlocutor what she/he wants to use, German or English, be they Swedish, French, Polish, Finnish, Czech ..whatever.

Now I speak the French, however haltingly, as much as I can, before switching over to another language...most likely English.

Bottom line here...choose between German or French and work on it. …..grammatically and speaking.

Posted by
532 posts

Hey...Fred is back!! Nice!!

Posted by
6637 posts

English is a Germanic language with a multitude of German cognates... picking up German vocabulary is relatively easy.

Anyway... what matters most is how far - or un-far - your English will get you in these countries. For this reason, studying French would be more helpful than German or Italian, I think.

Posted by
8440 posts

I believe it was Benny Hill who said (of speaking German) "say it in English with a fake German accent and it will be close enough".