France to re-instate border controls

For non European looking people Schengen has ended already a few years ago. Try to cross from Italy into France at Ventimiglia with a dark skin face, and you will see for yourself.

Just to add:
https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en

We did not have systematic border controls prior to Schengen. It was not possible then. It is even less possible now.

And it is not the end of Schengen. No country in Europe is going to leave the agreement and become the one country that the many tourists from Asia cross off their list...

Some posts were edited or removed. No politics. Stick to what affects travelers.

My passport can be checked anytime the authorities view as necessary and since on every trip I go back and forth across the France-German border "they " can check it regardless.

And it is not the end of Schengen. No country in Europe is going to leave the agreement and become the one country that the many tourists from Asia cross off their list...

There's a difference between leaving the agreement and enforcing your borders as France, Germany and others are doing. The EU laws restrict border enforcement to 6 months but this can be extended if it is considered necessary, which given Germany's police union official's views is very likely. If the majority of EU countries do the same then this effectively makes the Schengen agreement null and void.

My last two train trips to Austria; at the last stop on the Hungarian side the Austrian RoboCops got on. You know, full riot gear, weapons. They walked from one end of the train to the other and got off at the frist stop in Austria. I presume they ride back to Hungary and then repeat all day. Obviously profiling those on the train.

Ewwwww apparently Slovenia too......

https://hungarytoday.hu/austria-to-extend-controls-at-the-hungarian-border/

So there are border controls and then there are border controls.

If the majority of EU countries do the same then this effectively
makes the Schengen agreement null and void.

Schengen is about more than frictionless borders. It is also about Visas. As an American or Australian you do not notice that, but for, for example. and Indian or Chinese or Malaysian or Indonesian visiting Europe it is a boon that they only need to apply for one Visum. A country that decides to leave that arrangement will suddenly see a lot of tourist skip them. A honeymooning couple from Indian is not going to apply for a Schengen Visa and separately also for a visa for eg. just Hungary, if Hungary were to leave Schengen. No. they will just drop Budapest from their tour.

The border checks themselves are mostly just virtue signalling. Before Schengen I rarely had to show my passport at an internal European border. Schengen did not change much there.

Mr. E, on our train trip from Budapest to Vienna in 2017, border security came on the train and passport checked everyone. There was a family that did not have the necessary visa and I recall they were from Central or South America. They were allowed to continue on the train and told to sort out their documents in Vienna.

In 2002, my first trip to Budapest, the Hungarian cops boarded dressed in black combat gear and automatic weapons and checked everyone on the train. A nice welcome. They haven't boarded the train back to Budapest in recent memory.

I didn't get the virtue singaling comment.

I missed such a dramatic occurrence in 2001 going into Poland from Berlin and returning from Poland ie, Krakow to Berlin, no combat gear or anything similar. Likewise in 2003 again going into Poland ( Terminus Gdansk ) from Berlin and the return was the same.

All 4 passport checks were rather perfunctory as every one was checked. In 2001 the same perfunctory check was experienced when going from Nürnberg to Pilsen. That entire compartment coach had only 6 passengers, ie, 6 German kids of 19 years old and I, the foreigner.

@WengenK - I'm not talking about countries actually leaving the Schengen agreement but rather imposing their border checks on an emergency basis as the rules allow albeit on a 6 monthly term. In doing so it effectively puts an end to frictionless freedom of movement between that country and other EU countries. If all or most EU countries do this then it means the end of the Schengen agreement without any country formally withdrawing from it.

@JC: I replied to your "null and void" comment. This is not what is going to be the case here though.

Regarding my comment that this is just "signalling": These border checks do not amount to an effective control of the border. They are just show. Theatre. So the politicians can show they are doing something.

When Switzerland did this in Chiasso for a while they picked up the same persons several times a day, put them back on the train to Italy, where they just tried again...

A few years ago on a train between Austria and Italy, a group of border guards got on the train.

The train was made up of compartments. When the guard came to my compartment, they first interviewd the guy sitting across from me. He had a German passport but looked more middle eastern. He was questioned a bit. Then the guard went to the couple sitting next to the window. They also looked middle eastern and got questioned even more.

Then it was my turn. I started to hand him my US passport, he took a look at is as I held it, waived his hand as if saying "not necessary" and left the compartment.

A couple of years ago in southeastern France, a group of police officers got on the train and walked through. They didn't seem to talk to anyone. When we got to Carcassonne, they went through the station asking specific people for their identification. I just left to get a taxi.

The worst was in Stockholm two years ago. Arriving on a flight from Athens, everyone had to go through passport control. I was grilled for about 10 minutes about my plans. I had to show my air ticket out of Stockholm to Helsinki for a few days later and my air ticket out of Schengen. Plus a lot of questions of why I was there, what were my plans, etc. In all my years traveling anywhere, this was the most questioning I had ever had. And I was arriving from a Schengen country. I wasn't prepared for any of this as I didn't expect passport control.

This may surprise a few people. https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en

WengenK what you describe isn’t virtue signaling. If you are correct then it is political marketing. But I have never bothered to do the research to come to a conclusion. I have seen, and I have lived in, two countries where it has been proven that controlling the borders can be done to great effect. I suspect that the Germans and the other European nations are at least as competent. But to judge that I would need their stated goals and objectives and some data. Until then, I stay silent and when visiting, respect what every they are trying to do which every good tourist should do. Further from the point of view of tourism, just carry your passport at all times and go with the flow. Worst that can happen is you lose a few minutes at a border.

Regarding my comment that this is just "signalling": These border checks do not amount to an effective control of the border. They are just show. Theatre. So the politicians can show they are doing something.

I would say that the results from Germany demonstrates that it's more than just theatre:

"...within five days of imposing restrictions on its borders police detected almost 900 unauthorised entries, of which 640 people were turned back, 17 extremists were identified, and 114 arrest warrants were executed..."

That's quite a result in just five days. The federal police are pushing for an extension beyond the six month period as they are pleased with just how effective the checks have been and I suspect that their request will be approved.

It's fine with me that the Germans and French have resorted to checking passports, which in a way reminds me of the old days prior to Schengen when crossing from one border to the next, say Germany to Austria, you had to pull out your passport and then watch how people would fumble around awkwardly looking for it with an impatient border person looking on.

It was whimsical anyway. In 2014 doing a day trip from Düsseldorf to Amsterdam, I was checked. Once over the Dutch border 2 Dutch officials, male and female boarded, addressed everyone where I was sitting in English (obviously) that passports and visas would be checked. No random checking or any perfunctory guise of that, every single person was asked to produce the passport and the visas if that was also called for and questioned.

It is totally immaterial to me if this renewed checking is merely for show. The difference is this is policy now. As such I can expect to be checked randomly, diligently, perfunctorily, ie absolutely no problem, or even questioned on how long I've been in Schengen zone or where I entered Schengen given my arrival date. There might even be a chance to engage in some mundane comments in the target language.

This post seems to be quoting the UK Daily Mail which per Wikipedia "In February 2017, the English Wikipedia banned the use of the Daily Mail as a reliable source.[25][26][27]" Now I realize Wiki is not exactly the gold standard for fact checking but, yeah, it's better than the daily mail.

The only other match I am getting from google quoting the original content is "Schengen.news" which appears to have just plagiarized the UK Daily Mail. No attribution and exactly the same content.

A follow up post also appears to quote the Daily Mail. While the Daily Mail is sometimes accurate-- like the US's national enquirer--, fact checking and accuracy seem to be secondary to sensationalizing and excitation. Still, I can see this story is an attention grabber and it probably has some truth in it.

If I am mistaken, my apologies. I will happily remove my possibly inaccurate research if shown the error in my ways. I checked it out because it seems like it could be true and maybe I should keep an eye out for it in relation to my own travels.

The point here for travelers is that the landscape for frictionless borders in Schengen may be changing. That may be true. (It also may not be true. )

But what do I know? Not much.

Happy travels!

I'm not sure what David from Cleveland's point is. Perhaps he'd prefer to read the report on any of these sites:

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2024/10/24/france-ramps-up-schengen-border-checks-how-will-travellers-be-affected

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/latest-updates/france-extends-internal-border-controls-until-april-2025-what-travellers-to-schengen-area-need-to-know/articleshow/114463904.cms?from=mdr

https://www.brusselstimes.com/1285400/france-reintroduces-border-controls-what-does-this-mean-for-belgium

They are just three examples of many that have reported the imposition of border controls in France

Still, I can see this story is an attention grabber and it probably has some truth in it. If I am mistaken, my apologies. I will happily remove my possibly inaccurate research if shown the error in my ways. I checked it out because it seems like it could be true and maybe I should keep an eye out for it in relation to my own travels.

If you're still in doubt about France reintroducing border controls then may I suggest a bit more thorough research is required.

Rather than reading tabloid newspapers, especially from the United Kingdom, it is better to listen to the official statements of the French government which can be summed up as follows:

There will be no return of border controls on November 1st. This Friday is simply a 6-month extension of the Schengen exemption. The French government is working on controls that could be reinstated shortly, like what was established in Germany, but this type of control is far from being effective yet.

In practice, and since 2015, passport controls at Toulouse airport and in other French international airports are systematic whether you come from a Schengen country or not.

At the French-Spanish border there have always been customs and police officers who carry out random checks on the French side at the Biriatou toll booth for vehicles arriving in France.

To carry out systematic checks, it would be necessary to rebuild border control facilities, which were demolished a long time ago.

So, the official EU website is incorrect. Good to know. https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en

Perhaps the EU website only identifies that an exemption has been secured, but not what France will actually do with that exemption.

There will be no return of border controls on November 1st. This Friday is simply a 6-month extension of the Schengen exemption.

So has France re-instated border controls (a 6 month extension of the Schengen exemption is still re-instating border controls)?

JC, thanks for providing additional sources. I'd point out that your first additional source "EuroNews" is described in Wikipedia (again not a gold standard) thusly:

In December 2021, reports surfaced that Lisbon-based Alpac Capital
would buy an 88% controlling stake in Euronews from Egyptian telecoms
magnate Naguib Sawiris.[49][50][51] The purchase was finalised in July
2022, following approval from the French government.[52][53]

The sale was met with scrutiny as Alpac is allegedly linked to Prime
Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary.[54][55][56]

I am skeptical of all news sources associated with Orban.

The 2nd source is the economic times of India. The story has no byline. The Economic Times of India appears to have assembled the story from unattributed sources. I would not think the Economic Times of India would be a mainstream source for reporting on this.

None of this is to say what you have found is wrong. I however remain skeptical of the sourcing. I tried to find something about this by searching the BBC news. I didn't find it but I may be inept with their search function. Perhaps you'd have better luck?

Happy travels!

What's interesting is that I can't find this in any French media.

Even though Germany and Italy apparently had temporary border controls in place when we visited this summer, none of that was really evident to us. Perhaps if our ethnicity were different, the controls would have appeared. But for us, at least, the experience was no different from previous years visiting the Schengen zone.

JC, thanks for providing additional sources. I'd point out that your first additional source "EuroNews" is described in Wikipedia (again not a gold standard)

I don't give too much credence to Wikipedia, they too have an agenda.

So......will the official EU website (link provided by MrE) suffice?

Temporary reintroduction of border controls 01/11/2024 - 30/04/2025
Serious threats to public policy, public order, and internal security posed by high-level terrorist activities, the growing presence of criminal networks facilitating irregular migration and smuggling, and migration flows that risk infiltration by radicalised individuals, as well as the irregular crossings on the Channel and North Sea borders, along with rising violence among migrants, particularly in northern coastal areas such as Dunkirk and Calais, leading to tense and dangerous situations involving both migrants and law enforcement; borders with Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, the Swiss Confederation, Italy, and Spain (land, air, and sea).

Thanks JC!

And thanks for providing the various links and your thoughts. .

My take-- which you can take as you will-- is that it is unlikely any of these measures will effect any of mine and others upcoming travels. That these heightened security measures and policing actions do not signal the beginning of the end of Schengen and the reporting that suggests it might is really tabloid reporting that should be viewed with same level skepticism one applies to all tabloid reporting.

Now please note that I am often wrong-- but I hope not-- since I do not enjoy border checks! But if you see more reporting that suggests travelers need to be informed about potential delays and inconveniences please continue to pass that along. I've another upcoming trip and I'd like to be in the know.

Happy travels!

I was at the French-Spanish border 3 hours ago, there is no passport control.

As usual, the same customs and police officers at the French toll booth who stop some cars or trucks at random.

JC I appreciate you posting what you came across.

I crossed the Luxemburg-France border on the A31 yesterday afternoon, close to Dudelange, and it was just driving through, as usual. No officials to be see, so no cars stopped and/or checked.

I was at the French-Spanish border 3 hours ago, there is no passport control.
As usual, the same customs and police officers at the French toll booth who stop some cars or trucks at random.

I don't think anybody's suggesting that everybody is going to be stopped and checked, it's clearly more targeted by intelligence and possibly profiling however where there is a known or expected risk then checks can be made because the border check implementation has been formally ratified.

Isn't the same link to the EU website what I posted back on 10/23?

Kathy,

It is the same link but then this thread has become one of those slightly surreal ones, where a poster has given accurate information to try to be helpful. But it seems that some of those replying wish to be determined to show that this is all a figment of the imagination of tabloid newspapers, a stance which seems to be somewhat curious to me.
I am rather scratching my head, at what the agenda is behind some of the replies.

To me it is simple. France has secured an exemption to be able to target certain people (by profiling, intelligence led operations) and other methods). There seems to be nothing anywhere (even in the original post) to suggest that everyone would be checked at every border.

So anyone saying, "I wasn't checked therefore this is all nonsense" seems to be somewhat missing the point.

anyone saying, "I wasn't checked therefore this is all nonsense" seems to be somewhat missing the point.

First, I'm reading the thread looking in vain for the word "nonsense." Don't find it before this post.

Second, it's useful, I believe, to read the personal experiences of people who have traveled across these borders that supposedly are now being policed so as to nullify Schengen. That's just not happening, regardless of what government announcements might read like.

Second, it's useful, I believe, to read the personal experiences of people who have traveled across these borders that supposedly are now being policed so as to nullify Schengen.

No-one has stated that borders are being policed so as to nullify Schengen. I raised the question of whether the start of EU member states re-instating border controls (whether it's all people being checked, random checks or targeted checks they are all considered border checks) could signal the beginning of the end of Schengen.

At the heart of the Schengen agreement is the freedom of movement of all people within the EU. When one member state declares that it's re-instating border controls along the borders with other EU member states, irrespective of how widely those controls are used then it is going to create concern amongst other states as anecdotal reports have shown.

JC pretty well said.

Quite a few states have instituted the ability for exceptions to the general rule.
None of what is written here defines how they will implement those exceptions.
The exceptions to the general rule are permitted under the terms of Schengen; so this is Schengen working as it should.
But as JC points out, too many countries claiming too many exemptions for too long may erode the Schengen agreement.
It will be interesting to follow.

Myself and my son spent a few days in Lake constance (Bodensee) area last week, staying at Konstanz. The train service, interestingly, even on german side is run by SBB in that area. We crossed into Switzerland and back, by train, on multiple occasions during our stay without any border checks or any other issues.

I was surprised in 2022 when there was a security check on the train from Hamburg to Copenhagen. I had to show my passport at the border stop, which is the first time I've had to do that since Schengen began.

It will be interesting to see what happens here.

While I could be wrong, here is what I think occurred here. France’s “temporary Reintroduction of Border Control” as posted on https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en was actually not deemed newsworthy by mainstream news sources such as the BBC. Why? I am not exactly sure but it appears more of continuation rather than something significantly different. In contrast, when Germany in September actually did extensive checks and did disrupt some travel and commerce, the BBC and others widely covered it.

This new French event (or non-big event based the lack of reporting by Reuters, BBC etc) was blown up into big headlines by the tabloid newspaper The Daily Mail. And their story recirculated earlier photos and coverage of German event along with scary looking graphics on immigration issues. Other news sources essentially reported on the UK Daily Mail's coverage.

The OP innocently and nicely wanted to inform Rick Steves forum readers of the potential of disruption and what it could portend to future frictionless travels.

Posters such as myself tried to find reputable reporting on the French changes and found none. I reported my findings. Others posted that their actual on the ground border transits were normal. No real change.

Could this portend actual disruptions? Possibly. As I said I personally am skeptical of The Daily Mail and consider their reporting harmful. Others find my objection to their reporting unwarranted.

Either way keeping an eye out on any changes to borders is good for the forum. But if such posts are based on bad reporting from questionable sources (that may even be tinged with politics) then it may be running afoul of what makes this forum great. I so do love the fact that this lightly moderated forum strives to be polite, non-political, fun and informative.

Happy travels.

Checks on the Germany-Poland border have been going on since October 2023! Yes 2023. Did anyone notice? There were some alarmist articles in the Polish media around 16 September 2024 when Germany announced another extension but it all went completely quiet after that. Now it's 2 months and I still can't find many updates, articles or even discussions on social media. I guess the impact on cross-border movement is so minimal that it's not really news worthy.

British media have been announcing the fall of Schengen for decades now, I'm not really surprised that they have started that again. Meanwhile Schengen survived much bigger immigration issues like those around 2015...

Btw, the full list of temporary border controls are in the pdf at the bottom of the europa.eu link, not in the link itself.