France, Spain, Portugal

Although Portugal and Spain share the Iberian Peninsula, it is remarkably time-consuming to travel from one to the other. There are no good road connections, few buses and fewer trains (are there any?). I planned a 3.5 week trip to Spain/Portugal a couple of years ago, and ended up spending all my time in Spain because it proved so difficult to include Portugal and there is so much to see in Spain.

Thank you, been wondering about the same thing, we may cut Portugal. Do you know if the scenic train ride from Burgos to Madrid is worth the effort?

Looking at traveling from Paris to Bordeaux, to Biarritz to Bilboa to Pamplona to Madrid-via Burgos. Then maybe Madrid to Barcelona.

Any suggestions, we are wide open. Thanks for your good thoughts.

First, don't assume a Eurail pass is the best way to go. Figure out your itinerary first, then look at prices for discount tickets vs. a rail pass. More about this issue from The Man In Seat 61, here: http://tinyurl.com/bkw4u6c

Next, if you want to focus on wine, you may prefer to fly right into Bordeaux (of course, you can start in Paris if you prefer, but you don't have to).

If you do want to see Portugal and Spain on one trip, Chani's advice is right on. To connect the two countries, there are very few trains, a few more buses, and some flights. Cars rented in one country and returned in the other can have a high surcharge. The easiest way to connect them is probably either flying (not necessarily expensive with advance purchase), or renting a car in one, driving in a loop to see both, and returning in the same country you rented the car in. Porto has its own airport with a good number of flights; I don't know about wine areas in Spain or which airports are near them. You can use Skyscanner to investigate flights: http://www.skyscanner.com/

For hotels, once you know your cities, you can start a new thread for each one to get recommendations. And of course, Rick's books will cover some (probably not all) of your destinations, and will have hotel recommendations.

With the Forum reorganization, trip reports are supposed to be here: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports

and hotel and restaurant reviews are supposed to be here (this is for Spain, but on the upper right you'll see the links for other country reviews): https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/spain-reviews

However, I see reviews posted all over the place, so you're right, you will have to do a bit of hunting around.

Thank you for good advice, we are dropping Portugal....And many thanks for the directions to trip reviews on this new site.

I had the same experience as Chani. We spent a month in Spain. Originally the trip was going to include Portugal, but a combination of too much to see in Spain and too hard to get to Portugal made us decide to save Portugal for another day.

We were in Spain in April 2012 (which is part of high season there) and only paid more than 100 euro for our double room once. More often than not we paid about 65 for a double (making reservations as we went) with a low around 45 euro and high around 90. We stayed primarily in hostals (which are small hotels, they also have hostels).

Hi,
Thank you for your response. If you have a moment, please list your most enjoyable places.
Right now, we are considering a route going southwest through France and entering Spain on the West coast, around San Sebastian or Bilboa... maybe over to Pamplona, to Burgos, taking the scenic train to Madrid, then to Barcelona, but early stages of planning, so we are wide open to good suggestions. Thanks again

In the Bordeaux area we stayed for a week in a rented house just outside Saint-André-de-Cubzac, on the 45th parallel, birthplace and burial place of Jacques Cousteau. We ventured east to Saint-Émilion, and south to Graves and Sauternes, among others. A house worked great for us, but might not suit you for just 2-3 nights.

Presuming that your list is including Bilbao (not Bilboa?), heading east to Pamplona then back west to Burgos, then maybe west again to Barcelona after Madrid involves some zig-zagging, which may or may not be the most efficient way to go. The AVE train between Madrid and Barcelona is fast, but if you're considering linking destinations in a linear fashion, the above order may involve more backtracking than you might prefer.

We took an early train from Madrid to Bilbao last November, and I believe we passed thru Burgos. I don't recall vistas out the window being particularly scenic, but wasn't really watching. The newly-fallen snow on the hillsides before we arrived in Bilbao, though, was pretty.

We then had a rental car getting to and around San Sebastian. The parking garages there were expensive and not very convenient, so getting there by train would avoid those issues!

Thanks Cyn,
Yes, Bilbao.
I've read that the food in San Sebastian is marvelous? Would you visit both Bilbao and San Sebastian or choose one?

I see that Pamplona is out of the way...is it worth the back-tracking?

Did you enjoy Madrid?
and any other suggestions...
Thanks again

Add Reply

HI sundance- We rented an apartment for a week this last time in Madrid (Bordeaux was a long time ago), and left with still a lot of things do and see. As art museum lovers, Madrid kept us busy. That was also our main draw for Bilbao, at the Guggenheim Museum. The old town, though was interesting and we're glad we were there for 2 days.

San Sebastian is a food paradise, from tapas crawling to an extravagant lunch at Martín Berasategui (Martín is also the chef overseeing the restaurants at the Guggenheim in Bilbao). The aquarium there was a great visit on a dreary, rainy November day. Both places are worth a visit if you're in the general area! BTW, in San S. we stayed at the affordable but nice Pension Edorta, reommended in Rick Steves' guidebook.

Haven't been to Pamplona but I believe Brad (above) and others could give you lots of details. Happy trip planning and buen viaje!

Many thanks Cyn! :)