Four weeks in Europe and Singapore - are my lungs now completely ruined?

Yeah, many parts of Europe still seem annoyingly smokey to me, too - and many smokers incredibly inconsiderate. But that's true many places.

Enjoy the clean air where and when you can.

I has actually got worse since most countries banned smoking anywhere indoors or in public areas like train stations ,all outdoor spaces are now the haunt of the smoker and they care not one jot about anyone else, Smokers seems to be able to find the places where many folk have to pass them, shop doorways ,street junctions, bus stops etc .I work on a huge Hospital/medical school/research campus, smoking anywhere on the site has been banned, all the smoking shelters have been removed , but the ban has not been enforced and smoking is now worse on the campus than it was before .I cannot exit or enter a building or walk on or off the campus without having to pass through a gauntlet of smokers.

Frankly you've got more to worry about from the fumes of traffic and industry.

It is much much better than it used to be. For example until May 2017 it was very difficult to find a restaurant for nonsmokers (in the Czech Republic). Now they are all for nonsmokers.

It's true that it's so much better, but still pretty awful!!! In France for example at least the restaurants don't allow smoking -- but since the smokers are all on the terrace, it's almost impossible to enjoy the terrace. Plus when you're walking, you're inevitably a few steps behind someone puffing along . . . or while on the street corner waiting to cross . . .and then as someone mentioned above, all those folks standing out in front of buildings (or to the side at the service entrance) smoking away. . . ugh . . . .

"I think it's another topic where you can't really use "Europe" as an example, much too much variation."

I used the term 'Europe' only as shorthand. I clearly stated that my story covered Italy, Switzerland, Austria and Singapore. No generalisations were intended.

"If you drive a car you are probably doing as much damage as a smoker, , but people tend to forget about that."

I have yet to encounter a car or truck inside a restaurant.

"Everywhere has "something", Australia might have cleaner air but it has the issue of dangers from the stronger sun."

True, but I can take precautions against the sun - sunscreen and a hat, typically. However, I see the sun as an inanimate object with no responsibilities or obligations to humans. Smokers, on the other hand ...

;-)

I don't find smoking in Europe any worse than in the US especially since the EU passed the no smoking laws current in effect. Inconsiderate people clogging up the entry and exits to buildings, especially when it rains, puffing away getting annoyed if you are offended by their smoke exist everywhere in the world. Same for those walking down the street puffing away. Smokers simply don't comprehend how annoying tobacco smoke is, how it ruins the smell of everything else, and how if permeates everything because they are part of what gets permeated.

I think the reason most of us don't find smoking so annoying when we are close to home is we simply learn where not to go and unconsciously avoid smoker prone areas.

The smoking is way worse in Germany than it is in the US. All of the outside seating is smoking and guess what, none of the restaurants have AC. Going out to eat this summer is not much fun. Employees stand in the doorways of stores smoking. Festivals and the Xmas markets are horrid with all the smokers. The main station in Frankfurt has a large yellow square painted on the floor of each platform where the smokers are supposed to stand. One of the oddest ways to control smokers I have ever seen. Of course this is at the front of the platform so every traveler has to walk through the cloud of smoke. Cigarettes butts are thrown everywhere too.

It didn't seem as bad in Spain or Portugal, but I wasn't in any of the large cities.

Well, it used to be much worse, so I only notice it at outside tables, now. I was a smoker living in Paris but gave it up. We used to light up on Metro and RER platforms, in all SNCF train cars, inside restaurants with elbow-to-elbow tables, on trans-Atlantic flights, inside university classrooms, public toilets, movie theaters.... hardly notice it.

Steves_8, Maybe your next trip should be to Sweden. Very few people smoke there.

FYI - the largest shares of smokers in Europe are in the Balkan countries and Russia (some examples: 35% prevalence in Greece, 32% in Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, vs 11% in Sweden, 15% in Norway, etc.). And there have been all sorts of strategies employed to cut smoking back in public spaces all over Europe, so maybe you're thinking it looks "as popular as ever" because smokers are now concentrated (largely outdoors in the same nice seating areas where you'd love to sit) due to being banned indoors.

See Figure 2, Page 4 of World Health Organization (WHO) report "Tobacco control in the WHO European Region in 2017"
http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/349433/Taking-stock-report-ENG.pdf

Noticed in Spain that we could never sit out on the terrace as that is where all the smokers sit. While the inside of pubs restaurants and hotels are much better than pre smoking bans.

I do think more people still smoke in Europe compared to the US.

I am not sure it makes sense to lump all of Europe together due to the variability of smoking incidence between the various countries. The same can be said about individual US states. Comparing all of Europe to all of US masks these inter-state and inter-country differences.

Here's the CDC data on the US, and a good example: "In 2016, current smoking ranged from nearly 9 of every 100 adults in Utah (8.8%) to nearly 25 of every 100 adults in West Virginia (24.8%)". Less than 9 % to almost 25% is a large variation, just as there is a large variation in Europe as well (between Scandinavia/Nordic countries vs. southern Balkan countries).

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/index.htm

To make it simple, let's say the median in Europe is about 23% (roughly) and about 15% in the US - with a few outlier points in both distributions - and call it a day. Smoking is strongly correlated with lower income/poverty (those least able to afford cigarettes) and that's why you'll see the South and Midwest with higher rates (same as the less well off Balkans vs. very well off Scandinavian/Nordic divide). Tourists visit many states in the US that may be to the right of the median - Louisiana, Maine, Alaska, Florida. I lived 25+ years in Southern CA, which is one of the most touristed places in the country. Smoking is definitely not "hidden from the view of tourists" - all the smokers congregate in groups outside restaurants, bars, etc. and they're visible. Plus the tourists probably don't care that much, frankly. I am not sure the average European is as sensitive about people smoking in the US as an average American going to Europe - the latter group is less used to being around it (currently) and has a much stronger aversion towards it, it seems, even though smoking rates of prior generations were much higher. And I highlight "it seems" because there's no hard data on this that I can easily find. Of course people with existing health issues (no matter where they're from) are predictably more sensitive to cigarette smoke. When you look at cigarette packaging in Europe, though, the boxes have considerably stronger/ larger/ more alarmist warnings than in the US. It's like night and day- just goes to show the differences in regulation of advertising. In general, though, I think all European and North American countries have made strides to lower smoking incidence over time - the largest markets for cigarettes are in Asia, Africa, and Middle East.

I was sitting in a cafe in Kyiv just a few months ago. I held up a cig and looked around for someone with a lighter and I was disgusted by the number of people who pulled one out of their pockets or me.

Tom, that may very well be true but for any longitudinal study of something over time, you need standardized geographical measures (in this case, CDC used defined US Census Regions) so that you are comparing apples to apples year-over-year. There is nothing wrong with that (and indeed you need that for statistically sound analysis), even if it differs from one person's vs. another's conception of what regional borders are more appropriate based on their own perceptions.

If you prefer to examine much finer Census tract-level data on smoking and other conditions, you can. Knock yourself out:
https://chronicdata.cdc.gov/500-Cities/500-Cities-Census-Tract-level-Data-GIS-Friendly-Fo/k86t-wghb

Every time I see the percentage of smokers statistics, I wonder what criteria the use to define a smoker.

It's been my experience that Europe, and yes, I'm painting the area with a big wide brush, has more social smokers than the USA given the high price of tobacco in many countries. And, the places that us tourists are likely to encounter that are places where the occasional smoker might light up, such as relaxing with a drink on a patio or after a meal dining al fresco.

Every time I see the percentage of smokers statistics, I wonder what
criteria the use to define a smoker.

Every study or survey performed by a reputable organization has their methodology published - that covers all Federal agencies like Census and CDC. There's no need to wonder. On the CDC page, they define who they consider a "current smoker" if you look carefully. There are many surveys out there and you really have to look at each of their limitations to compare them. For example, the Global Adult Tobacco Survey (GATS) reporting years may be different by country, but I still think you can get a high-level view of comparative differences.

https://nccd.cdc.gov/GTSSDataSurveyResources/Ancillary/DataReports.aspx?CAID=3

Four weeks in Europe and Singapore - are my lungs now completely
ruined?

No, your lungs are not completely ruined based on your OP. That's all part of traveling; some cultures embrace smoking and if you want to visit those cities/regions, you inhale the carcinogens. Vienna for me was the hardest to endure. London has been the easiest.

have yet to encounter a car or truck inside a restaurant.

No but their poisonous particulates will be in there, in your clothes, your hair...it's insidious.

It's being stuck inside non-air-conditioned restaurants that bugs me the most at this point. I almost never see someone in Europe smoking in a forbidden area, so I can't really get angry about it. There was a time when it was socially aceptable in many European countries to smoke in non-smoking train compartments.

I have a theory that one reason much of Europe lags behind the US in reducing smoking rates is that it took longer for the European economies to recover after WWII, so heavy smoking was not affordable for most people. Thus not so many Europeans have watched their parents and grandparents die of smoking-related diseases.

If you see me at a terrace in Europe, slide over to the opposite side as I am a magnet for smokers/smoke.

@ Bets...so very true in France!! It was literally everywhere. I am not a smoker, never was, never even tried one. My first time in Paris when encountering the smell of a Gauloises (the blue) was unlike anything I knew of in smoking. That particular smell you never forget.

True, on German train platforms where one may smoke is outlined by the yellow, the Raucherbereich. So you see 5-10 people all puffing away and you have pass them, ie walk through this gauntlet of smoke, to get to your platform letter.

It is indeed much better now in contrast to train riding in Germany and smoking 35-45 years ago, when train compartments were divided into Nichtraucher (non-smoking) and Raucher. That in itself should be obvious. ...still, it happened (super rare) where someone would defy the rules by smoking in a Nichtraucher compartment where you're sitting.

I don't find Vienna as the worst in smoking, lots of international tourists light along with locals up too in the heavily tourist sites and areas.

The heartland voted for the present president, along with the South, part of the Southern strategy and the Sunbelt, which no one mentions any more, and where you find the biggest concentration of smokers. The Midwest and South (including the Border states) voted for the present winner. I would look at the life expectancy of certain states and the role of smoking, which is but one factor.

I do feel your pain. Since smoking is way more restricted here, and I’m inside most of the time when at home, the smoke really bothers me when we travel...for the shear fact that we are outside way more, and also eating out a lot I still recall a few times in south of France...In Nice we were going to sit outside but so many smokers we ended up going inside (and we were in ‘no mans land’ outside as we were totally ignored by the waiters (once we sat down) for about 10 min...as soon as we went inside we had a menu). And eating at another place, we sat inside, but the waiter kept smoking in the doorway and of course the smoke kept blowing in.

And since I’m not around smoke, it is really irritating. I had a father who smoked when I was a kid, and my father in law smoked pipes and those little cigars...ugh. I’d get the worst headaches after about 2 min exposure to those cigars. Back in the 90s I worked at a coffee shop (with smoking) and the mall allowed it and the bench outside our store was a fav smoking bench. It’s so weird to look back on that now!

I had two restaurants in southern France refuse to let me sit inside at lunch time. It was outdoors with the smokers or nothing. I made my displeasure very clear and walked. I believe one of the places was in Ceret.

If others smoking bothers people so much, wouldn't it be easiest just to take up smoking yourselves? I'd have thought you'd be much less likely to notice it then.

Obviously it might kill you, but then we're all going to die sometime. Better, surely, to enjoy the life we have than moan that others might be having more fun (until the smoking diseases kick in anyway).

And, no, I don't smoke. But in open areas it just doesn't bother me and I would never be so rude as to complain. Things in many European countries are a lot better than when, only a few year's ago, the people at the next table inside a restaurant would light up between every course, sometimes even smoking between each mouthful.

15 years ago in (for example) Munich or London, we could not find a restaurant where we weren't choked by smoke. The classic Vienna restaurant move when you asked for the nonsmoking section was that the waiter would place you elbow-to-elbow with people smoking at their tables and gruffly plop down a small "No Smoking" sign on your table. On our European trips within the last 6 months we were remarking how much better the actual inside restaurant situation is now. Outside is another matter as others have mentioned.

In both the US and the European countries we have visited within the last year, there are some disturbing commonalities.
One is the number of teenagers smoking. Unlike my unknowing war veteran father who received a carton of cigarettes each week as part of his Army pay, these young people have no excuse. They are armed with knowledge and yet seem willing, even eager, to ignore it. As a physician I know often says, "The problem with smoking is that it doesn't kill quickly enough."

Another common issue is the inability and/or lack of inclination to enforce non smoking restrictions. In hotels everywhere from Prague to Portland we have encountered smoky hotel rooms in locations which advertise "100% nonsmoking hotel" and have monetary fines prominently posted. That are clearly rarely enforced. In Prague the hotel manager actually accused me of lying and in Medford, Oregon last week the desk clerk said "Oh yeah. That happens. There is nothing we can do." Really?!

I consider smokers and people who drive drunk in the same category. Both are engaging in activities that can directly impact the lives of others around them.

Amen, Traveling Mom. Not to mention that our insurance premiums/Medicare must pay for their increased medical bills. Of course, the latter might be offset by not having to pay them social security as long. And yes, I am judgemental and snarky about people smoking (and I know the same could be said about my weight which doesn't budge much despite the gym and not eating chips and candy very often). My father's family had a huge history of premature deaths of smokers and my maternal grandfather died from a type of cancer associated with smoking. Fred, while I don't dispute the ridiculous number of smokers in the South, I seldom encounter it in the suburban area where I live(except for concerns about high school students vaping) and the last of my smoking relatives listed above died in 1980. And since this is a travel forum, smokers waste a lot of money that could be spent traveling!

@ cala.. In .saying that a lot of smokers are in the South, I was going by what a woman from AL told me in 1990 (yes, I know, a long ago.) since she pointed out tobacco is an industry in the South, ie, in NC. Maybe since then that heavy smoking has changed. "...smoker waste a lot of money that could be spent traveling."....How true!!

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this thread.

Venting (pun intended) about people smoking overseas isn't going to change anything.

If we choose to travel, we choose to accept that things are different in the places we travel to from how they are at home. If we can't accept that, we shouldn't travel.

I hate second-hand cigarette smoke. But when I'm in Europe, I know it's going to be more prevalent than at home. I am willing to put up with it because, for me, it's preferable to not traveling. I'm not going to come home and complain about it any more than I'm going to complain about the thuggish Italian transit police who fined me for failing to validate my ticket.

If you are in a public area and it's also tourist site, keep in mind that not only the locals smoke but also the international tourists who are puffing away indifferent to others who may be bothered by the smoke.

"I have never smoked, I think it's a stupid habit but based on some of the posts on here I think I might go and stand with them in solidarity next time I stop for a coffee!" I like your approach and perhaps it will dilute the concentration a smoke in the air. If we could get more to follow, then real progress is at hand.

It's said on average, an airplane produces 53 pounds of carbon dioxide in one mile.

From Vienna, Austria to Sydney, Australia it is roughly 9,918 miles.
Boy, that sure seems like quite a lot of carbon dioxide for one little trip.

Just curious, but how did you get to and from work, the grocery store, picking up the kids from school, etc. this week? Did you exclusively walk or take public transit everywhere you went? Did you carpool? Or did you pull a giant SUV out of the garage to accomplish these things?

And the second hand smoke equivalent (in your mind) to 20 cigarettes that you inhaled over a 4 week period... I wonder how that stacks up against the damage caused by your jaunts around the world and around your own city this week now that your month long travels are over?

I'd ask the same questions of the other villagers on the Travel Forum bearing pitchforks and torches ready to stick all the smokers in front of a firing squad so they can go back to enjoying lattes and gelato outdoors on a terrace, acting for all the world like their own hands are totally clean and they do nothing whatsoever in their daily lives that contributes in any way to increasing levels of greenhouse gases that speed up global warming.

So while you are lining us smokers up against the wall, you might also want to consider shooting all the cows in the world, because each of them produces about 100kg of methane per year which is 23x more damaging than carbon. But I'm guessing for the majority of you, the cows will get a pardon because without them, you won't be able to have steak tartare followed by the cheese cart the next time you are enjoying your meal on a now smoke-free outdoor terrace in Europe.

The hypocrisy from the militant non-smoking camp reeks as much, if not more, than any Marlboro Light.

One of my favourite jokes (because it seems somebody needs to lighten up):

Having a smoking area in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.

Boom tish!

Well, it's been said the best thing you can do for the environment is to have one less child.

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/children-carbon-footprint-climate-change-damage-having-kids-research-a7837961.html

My husband and I decided not to reproduce, so I'm going to enjoy ALLLLL the steak and flights. ;)))

Much as one might see the French smoking everywhere or whatever, I still think the Germans smoke more. That's the perception. Then there are the numbers of Asian tourists, especially the Chinese, lots of them puffing away at outdoor tourist frequented sites.

Ceidleh,

I agree with what you say. We ALL pollute the air. Drive an electric car? How was the electricity produced? How was the car manufactured? Drive an SUV? Burns a lot of gas. Buy tires for it? My goodness, making them for you pollutes the air. And yes, each time you fly, think about the pollution from every single flight all over the world.

I am 58 and a former smoker, quit 3 years ago. I don't judge or criticize smokers. I know all too well how hard it is to stop. Smokers are the easy target nowadays. Who here doesn't do anything that pollutes the air? Hasn't bought anything that polluted the air to manufacture?

If you don't like being around smokers, pick more non smoker friendly places to visit. It's simple really. It's their country, not yours.

To lighten the atmosphere here:
For every cigarette you smoke, God takes 10 minutes off your life and gives it to Keith Richards. Ba dum.

Paul