For the Old Travelers

While I still watch the budget, I’m not afraid to pay for extras now.

BMWBGV, like Carol, I'm willing to pay more for comfort and convenience. Part of that is having a spouse.

I'm in mid-sixties as well. My first airplane trip was to the UK at age 7. Yep, people dressed up. Women wore hats and little white gloves. Men wore suits. It was just not common to fly frequently, so people wanted to look like it was an important event. Now, its just as routine as driving to the store.

Big changes - no smoking. It was awful to fly with a cloud of smoke around you. The internet has greatly changed how people travel. Back then, you had to got to a travel agent and get messy paper tickets.

Demographics. I looked up the details once and noted the population of the US has more than doubled since I was born, and the population of the world, tripled. That's a lot more people just being there on the ground, as well as those who can afford to travel.

I saw your title and immediately thought I fit - ouch! LOL! That change in itself is revealing! ; )

I’m with you on preferring Economy Comfort, mainly so my legs can move more and not ache as much when we land. And although it seems like our default standard, we had a flight cancelled on the way back from Rome to Seattle one year, and we were put on another route in cheap seats in the back - I had a middle, and we were both just happy we were on a plane!

The first time I went to Europe in 1975, I couldn’t wear jeans (4-H People-to-People Ambassador Program). Although I can wear what I want now, I still attempt to not look so casual - being respectful in B&B’s, restaurants, churches, etc. (I have been seated near the front entrance of a small restaurant and observed who does & doesn’t get a table!) I do remember my first plane ride in the ‘60’s going from Iowa to New York City; we were wearing dresses & suits.

Hearing the latest news about incidents where buildings & paintings are being or trying to be damaged really makes me sad. When these treasures aren’t respected, what are we leaving - physically & mentally for our future generations?

Gave up on economy airfare.

Fly premium economy. Purchase senior tickets for sites. Hotels no more AirBnB’s.

Still pack light, still walk and walk so more.

Still travel off season because it suits me.

Still do pre dawn/early AM walks.

Bucket list items getting checked off quicker.

Will splurge for private guide.

I meander and enjoy.

I’m a younger-ish traveler but I’m super thankful for the non-tech related travel skills I learned from my parents growing up! Yes we can all rely on our phones these days, but my dad’s advice to look for the restaurant that seems to be most crowded with locals rarely does me wrong! And buying some snacks and drinks for the hotel room can save both money and meltdowns from being hangry!

Claudia, I love the way you write so clearly and succinctly. Stan the man, Jean, and Carol, it appears we've all made some concessions to age. Stan, yes a lot more people traveling nowadays, especially recently affluent Chinese. Good for them.

wolfster and periscope, that's what my Grandpa would say. Also, "It never hurts to ask" as it refers to discounts and specials. This used to embarrass me as a tyke, but he grew up during the Depression and while not a cheapskate, he would be frugal.

DH and I are 62. We don’t mind just sitting in the Main Cabin, but we splurge on hotels. We have both relaxed in our dressing on planes, but still like to look put together. I bring more “comfort items” than I did when young.

I'm loving the senior discounts. They aren't everywhere, but they are quite helpful when I encounter them.

Other than the sheer numbers of people traveling--necessitating hotel bookings one or more days in advance in high-traffic cities and massively altering the visitor's experience for the worse at places like Plitvice Lakes National Park, the Cinque Terre and many big-name museums--I think it's transportation that is the most different. It started with airline deregulation, which made it more feasible to link distant countries on a single trip (a plus). Then the railroads decided to adopt the fariable-pricing model, making longer-distance, spontaneous rail trips more costly (a minus).

Oh, yes: There's also climate change. My weather worry on a summer trip north of the Alps used to be that it would be too cold (and it often was). I still plan for that possibility, but I now also must consider the opposite possibility.

Back in the 60's and 70's, when it seemed travel was a competition, people were doing without the comforts of travel. Trying to travel on the least amount of money possible never seemed like a pleasure trip to me, but to each his own.

It seems like we cannot tolerate what we once did, but that was the fact we had very little disposable money back then and didn't have much of a choice. I don't think we are softer, we are smarter investors and have more expendable money now. Today in general, our responsibilities are complete, eg. educating children, much more in savings and paying down mortgages, etc.

As a young person I never had the desire to travel to Europe because it simply wasn't in the realm of possibility. Paying for college was a goal succeeded thanks to student loans and scholarships. Now, as older adults, its our time. Spend it and enjoy it. Never come back from a trip and say, I wish I woulda.

It all depends, sometimes I take a nap after check-in in London or Paris in that no AC room (that's a given) and outside could be in the 80s. In my younger days say 40-50 years ago, I didn't make a conscious effort to sleep on the plane, allowed myself to be distracted, music choices, movies, etc., basically didn't know any better, but still did not get jet lag in spite of that. Now, I sleep and still no jet lag upon arrival after that non-stop flight from SFO, still flying Economy.

Doing a trip more or less as a budget traveler in Germany is my preferred way, I'm more flexible since traveling in my 50s, more apt to take the bus option from city to city and do night trains on every trip, an option I wasn't well informed on in the 1970s and 1980s.

The biggest change in my travel ways, personally, is that I take more conscious security measures, ie, using the hidden pocket, neck pouch, etc. In the past, 40-50 years ago, I really didn't bother; true too, that times have changed is one reason. Maybe age has something to do with it. That came about twenty years ago in my early 50s, being more cautious, security awareness, etc.

Claudia mentioned the items I was going to mention. Additionally, when we rent a car we just pay for the zero deductible insurance to eliminate hassles of who is paying a claim, which CC to use or third party company to get it through. I too take full advantage of those retired entrance prices.

A lot of time has elapsed since your original post was posted, but as it was not tied to a particular trip in time, perhaps it doesn't matter. Anyway, to address a couple of specific points:
[1] On flying: having had my first airline experiences when flying was still "nice," I have definitely found that air travel has become cruder and coarser. I still recall, from way back in the 1970s, boarding a flight in Athens and feeling appalled at some of the Greek passengers who were coming aboard in t-shirts and jeans -- little did I know that this, and worse, would soon be the norm.
[2] On heat: I too am skeptical about dealing with 90-degree heat (Farenheit or Centigrade, as may be our fate) without air-conditioning. But our sophisticated industrial technology is patly to blame: traditional, pre-industrial societies had better ideas. I've found that at least in dry heat (for high humidity ruins everything), mud and adobe can be remarkably good insulators. There were times in Africa when I walked out of dry heat, and into a mud hut with a tall, peaked thatch roof, and felt as if it was mildly air-conditioned -- even though neither air conditioners, nor the electricity sources to run them, were present.

And more generally: My earliest international travel experiences were way back in the 1970s, the tail-end of the glorious "pre-communications" era (no personal computers, and so no e-mail, Facebook, or instagram), and in Africa. Today I have to laugh a little at all those tourists who fret over wi-fi -- on my early travels I accepted the fact that once you went in there, you were really "in there," and you didn't go "in there" unless you were content to be out of touch with your "loved ones" until whenever you emerged. (A fantastic experience!) And there were no universal ATMs -- you didn't go "in there" without carefully estimating, in advance, the cash you might need, knowing well that fascinating as Upper Volta (as Burkina Faso was then called) could be, it might be an inconvenient place to discover that you had mis-estimated.
Finally, one of the biggest changes I've seen over the years is the morphing of travellers into "tourism-consumers." At many popular tourist sites today, you're not so much a traveller, as just another customer, another mammal in the herd, one of the day's thousand being herded through the site in conveyor-belt fashion.

But to end on a positive note, I'll point out that there are still many great places to visit (even in Europe) where you can still feel like a real traveller, and even an appreciated one, as long as you don't necessarily require the Grand Fabulous and Famous Visual Spectacles -- the "must-sees" -- that suck in the crowds. (Example: as I left a small historic museum in a quaint, historic, but little-visited Peruvian town, the attendant ran out after me to make sure I had not overlooked a near-by historic site. Now I enjoyed my visit to the Prado art museum in Madrid, but when I exited, no staff member ran out to ask whether I had remembered to see the Goyas.)

This is one of those timeless questions and I'm glad it's been revived as I missed it the first time around. Still in my 50's but remember smoking sections in airplanes, no seat assignments and cardboard suitcases. Well, maybe I shouldn't remember that one but my family didn't have much money and on my first flight in 1979, I had a black one while everyone else had shiny vinyl.

I also remember that most families I knew had a tent trailer and vacations were packing up the kids into a wood paneled station wagon and driving to a lake for 2 weeks. For us, my Dad took us to the same campground, same campsite for the same 2 weeks every July. The concept of a trip to Disneyland was exotic and only a lucky few made that journey. Now, my kids can't imagine such a simple vacation like camping. They grew up thinking Disney or exotic locations like Hawaii was normal.

On a personal note, I'm so much more relaxed about spending money for the comforts and experiences I want. Except pay toilets, paying for one still drives me nuts.

This is a great thread!
One thing is REALLY appreciate is the absence of smoking these days. As the only non-smoker in my youth, who "sucked it up", I really appreciate the no smoking era.

As I get older, I find that all I really want to spend my money on is seeing my favorite places in the world, before I die. Latest fashions....nope, renovating my house every year....nope.

Another thing....I've adopted the less is more philosophy. (Although I can say that bc I've already been to many of the "must-see spots". Am happy to wander and enjoy just being there.

Visiting places of natural beauty has replaced museums for me, though I still enjoy them. Shopping, nah...unless it's a piece of art, or linens from Provence!

And...it sure makes a difference who your traveling companion is. I'm the early bird, and relish exploring neighborhoods, while my family is still in bed. On the other hand, I've learned to slow down, and not try and and orchestrate a forced march on people.

The best of all, is to have a conversation with local people, to practice the language, and to chat with fellow travelers.

Pet peeves: Rude, entitled people, no matter where they're from!
Traffic! Too many cars in the world! I dream of a car-free village in our future.

Since somebody reinvigorated the thread, when the military sent to me Spain in the mid-70s it was shortly after Franco died and Spain was close to being a 3rd world country. Most Spaniards didn’t have cars so hitchhiking wasn’t uncommon. There were only 6 interstates (A1-A6) that radiated out from Madrid from kilometer marker zero one can find at the Puerta Del Sol. We had little money so staying at a hotel was a luxury and we camped most of the time. Whether camping or hotel, warm or hot water was a rarity. It there was hot water you had to pay extra for it. The campsites actually had coin machines; put in 25 pesetas and you got five minutes of hot water. On a good note, there were no lines to get into anyplace in Spain. The cathedral in Sevilla was free to enter and one didn’t need to reserve three months ahead to visit the Alhambra. Park the car and walk in. On our first trip to Segovia I drove between the aqueduct arches that was still carrying water to the city. Finally, the only U.S. fast food establishments consisted of two Burger Kings. How times have changed.

Jaimeelsabio: Now that is the Europe I always wanted to see ( although it would have been hard to see the residents struggle) so much simpler. Without mass tourism and everybody (or most) trying to take advantage of it. Sigh.

jaimeelsabio, that's the most interesting thing I've read for awhile. Thank you. Something tells me you write for a living, or maybe you should.

Stan, I know. The "good old days" were not always good, but there were some things worth bring nostalgic about.

jadam, there is really some sublime quality about an early morning walk by yourself when the family and much of the world is not yet awake. There is a ill-defined beauty about it.

We've arrived at "Suzie Orman's Ultimate Retirement" after decades of discipline and effort. It really is possible. It's an interesting period in our lives and more comfortable than we imagined it would be. We're much more willing to splurge on multiple tours and longer stays, insisting on premium economy or better, etc. Travel expenses are not as worrisome now and I'm glad we were diligent in preparing for this time.

1) We don't care about flights. We are cheap. We fly economy.
2) We do not rent cars. I hate tickets. I hate the hassle of parking. I dislike decision making at 80 KPH
3) We will stay in hostels, in single private rooms - these are inexpensive and the young people remind us of our youth during the Jurassic era
4) We don't go so much to big cities. We have done all the big cities. We like the little cities.

@Faedus

"tourism consumers" That's an interesting term worthy of some further discussion

Except pay toilets, paying for one still drives me nuts.

I love pay toilets. Because pay toilets are toilets. In the US, where all the toilets are "free", there are very few. In much of Europe, where you pay, toilets are available.

You get what you pay for.

Just turned 67.
Still fly economy.
Still fly carry-on only.
Will stay in hostels or budget hotel rooms. It is just a bed to sleep in, am not hanging out there. If it is summer, they do need AC. If I have to upgrade a bit for this, I will, but many budget hotels have AC, like Motel One, Ibis, Mercur, etc.
Love finding lunch or dinner specials with delicious, traditional foods.
Will go on any walking tour available, but not the "free" ones.
Love riding trains over planes if at all possible.

Big Mike, LOVE your title, caught my eye right away! LOVE that you refer to your wife as “Hot”! When I began putting our first ever trip to Italy together I was mid sixties. Unfortunately with postponing so many times I’m already late sixties! No idea where the time has gone, must be one of those space time continuum things, lol. Yes Stan I also remember when ladies wore dresses hats and white gloves in public, arggg when did I get old.
To add to the post I would have to add that I am paying a lot more attention to my feet/shoes. Back in the day I could probably have traveled in a nice comfy broken in pair of huaraches but no more. I have stressed and stressed about comfortable shoes for our trip to Italy next month :( now that I have found, bought and been breaking in my new Allbirds I’m stressing about socks but that’s another thread. Besides my shoes we are flying premium economy and we have planned down time in between seeing the sights. Adrenaline will do the rest, I’m still in good supply, thankfully 😅

Linda, strike while the iron is hot.

Stan: Clever. But I wonder how many guys drive by that billboard and think, "not my wife."

Ms. Jo, what about AC in northern Europe, like Scotland or Scandinavia? At some point as you go north AC probably ain't happening.

It was with nostalgia that I watched an episode of Mad Men that showed what flying was like in the 60s and 70s.

When I worked at a summer camp I bought Michael Pendleton's used duffle bag at an army surplus store for $2. I still use it but only when I travel to the US to bring back some of my shopping. First visit to Amsterdam, I went to the Anne Frank Huis, bought a ticket and went right in. I went to the Van Gogh Museum in the early days; there were only a few people inside. It was my first hotel in Europe and you had to feed the meter to have a hot shower in the shared bath. First and second visits to Paris, we walked up to the Eiffel Tower and bought went all the way up - no lines, no waiting.

Once (sigh) I was full of energy and low on funds. I saw everything, ate on the run from grocery or market or street food so I didn't waste precious sightseeing time. Trips were limited to time off from work, though I was fortunate to live in Israel, so Europe was close, flights were affordable, and I had 3-4 weeks of annual vacation.

When I retired I made myself a promise that I'd take 3 trips a year as long as my body and my bank permitted. I slowed down (age, not choice), started eating a few dinners out and taking a taxi now and then. Sometimes renting a car for more hard to reach areas. That worked until Covid. Now I have a backlog of travel funds and I sense that my body may let me down some day. I spend more on hotels to have more comfort. I don't hesitate to sit for an hour at a sidewalk café with a drink. I eat out most nights. And I enjoy my travels at least as much as I did years and years ago.

I don't miss the franc, the guilder, or the lira.

It was nice to be one of the few tourists in Europe back in the day, yet I am truly glad that so many people are able to travel to foreign lands, meet new people, learn about other cultures, and hopefully become more understanding and even more tolerant.

Yes, sitting in C-130 jump seat and hoping you're not under the leaking pipe or laid out under or on top of a troop carrier or tank during turbulence, the good old days. Like you I prefer a Premium Economy seat or a two seat row in Economy. Have lucked out with the season/weather of not needing an AC in the apartments or hotels I rent. Even though I can not sleep on the plane from the West Coast to Europe, I still head out as soon as I check in & unpack and I am up until at least 20:00.

AMan, yes, or course. No offense intended. I edited my post.

Chani, yes, I recall walking right into the Anne Frank Huis and other sites back in the day. Sigh. I like the timed entries to prevent over-crowding.

It was with nostalgia that I watched an episode of Mad Men that showed what flying was like in the 60s and 70s.

I know you didn't mean it that way, and gosh, I loved that show too, but not all genders and races would look back on the 60s with nostalgia. Just sayin'. I also actually think it's a good thing that flying and international travel is accessible to "the masses" now instead of just a certain portion of society, even though that means cities and attractions are so much more crowded. I can whine about the crowds and having to pre-book with the best of them, but my family didn't come from the fancy dresses and white gloves society, so if things didn't change I might not have travel accessible to me now. :-)

Exactly, roubrat. Thank you.

My first trip to Europe was in 1972. During some of the trip I backpacked on my own, and often stayed in hostels. I even hitchhiked around the UK for a time. The airfare was $200 for a Boston-London round trip ($1,400 in today's dollars, so airfares have gone down adjusted for inflation). Today we do RS tours with independent travel before and after, and tend to stay in RS-style hotels on our own.

The big overall changes are the crowds and the diversity of fellow travelers. We were in Oxford England a few years ago and noticed tour buses full of Asian tourists. On a walking tour we met people from Argentina, Romania and Russia. Travel is actually more affordable, and the rise of the middle class in many countries has resulted in more people traveling.

Love this topic! When I first started traveling outside the US (early 30s), it was often with 2 young kids in tow. Now they are grown and only want to come along if Mom and Dad pay. So one big change for Mom and Dad is now we go out to nice, sometimes even gourmet, dinners and get that nice bottle of wine. Otherwise, I'm still too cheap (frugal?) to pay for more expensive flights and spend so little time in our hotel room that we go for the mid-low end there too. Location is more important still than luxury for hotels. Oh...I forgot, I now bring hiking poles to support the knees on the country "hikes."

I'm only 65, so I am going to bookmark this thread for future reference.

One other thing we do as we are getting old (70 and 73) is prep for the trip by doing a lot of walking. Our health plan has an incentive for walking - if you walk 7500 steps (about 3.5 M) on 10 days in a month, you get $10. Although this is not much money, it's enough to get wife and I off our butts and walking. We are losing slight bit of weight (I am down 14 lbs in 3 m, wife is down 10 lbs). Plus we are in better shape.

We are also limiting alcohol. Not cutting it out, but reducing the evenings that we drink.

We leave for Italy on 09/13. We should be down 5 more lbs for that. Our plan is to gain much of it back.

James E: What future?

Paul: Sound advice for others to mimic.

Also, folks, good grief. I'm not conflating one airplane scene from Mad Men with the 1960s as an aggregate. My narrow point was that flying back in the day was, indeed, a relatively luxurious experience.

We leave for Italy on 09/13. We should be down 5 more lbs for that. Our plan is to gain much of it back.

I can do that without even planning.

Seriously, that is a great idea about prepping for your trip by walking more. I walk 3-4 days a week but walk much more when I'm traveling and it usually exhausts me. Maybe if I spent as much time planning for my body as I do planning for the trip, I wouldn't be as tired. New resolution...

Allan, at least you had cardboard suitcases - ours were paper bags. My very frugal mother would pack each of us 7 kids a paper bag with our clothes in it when when went on vacation. The problem was that they looked like ... paper bags, which is why they were easily forgotten. She forgot my 2 younger brother's bags on a trip to DC (left them on the kitchen table) and as a result, they had to wear my sister's underwear and clothes until my mom found a source for cheap clothing. My sister still rags them about that to this day...

BMWBGV

James E: What future?

I think you may be correct. I just got home from Budapest and turned on the news.

Paul: couldn't agree more. Getting the legs ready for a trip by going on walks beforehand was important for my wife and I. Overseas, we frequently walked 5-10 miles a day just wandering around sight-seeing. Those preparatory walks made that possible. Plus, losing a little weight around the middle was a good thing, too.

Chuck, we average about the same mileage as you folks on vacation, 7-10 miles a day. There isn't anything like walking around and it's much different than just driving by. Plus, it means we can eat almost anything we want without gaining weight. I remember Mary and I finishing a large pizza in Paris, something we wouldn't come close to doing while at home. Why? Lots of walking. We were famished.

Plus, losing a little weight around the middle was a good thing, too.

Keeping trim helps make the seats on the plane more bearable too. I'm always more comfortable when I am at my lowest weight.

My first trip was in the summer of 1971, the charter flight from OAK to Gatwick for this 12 week charter flight was $375. Return was not from Gatwick but AMS, very convenient.

On the topic of AC back then, it did not exist on the buses nor trains. in Germany. When it got blistering hot, (it did with the temp at 30C inside the train) all windows were open. and you just baked as did everyone else..

Of course, with all the tech improvements in the last half century, you can still find no AC in small hotels/Pensionen in Germany. My Pension in Berlin is one such place with the WC down the hall. I asked the owner about the expense of installing a toilet in the room. She gave an explanation against such a move.

I still fly Economy going over. The additional comfort/ luxury is nice having been upgraded to Business Class twice just out of the blue but not necessary. Like then I still only go in the summer.