For our regular contributors...

Thanks for that - we'll give it a try...

I tried a few searches and liked what came up.
However, I didn't notice the button for asking a question until AFTER I had read your message. Would making the button stand out more, clutter your page?

Which button wasn't clear? The "post" button for posting the question or the "go" button for searching?

I have just now read this. Seems like a good idea. I have noticed a few of us are telling newbies to use the Search, but not too many of us though. Have started using it myself. One of my questions about it is if the answers are listed chronologically or by relevance to all the words used in the search, or how? As to placement, I do think the Search button could be a bit more obvious. Can it be moved to the then center, perhaps directly over the "Ask your Question" ?

I think the button is a great idea. However, I did not notice it until I read this post. Is it possible to make it a different color, say the same gold that is in the RS logo?

Hopefully this will help BUT the button needs to be in bold print to standout. In fact I would redesign the Traveler's Helpline page and move the Tips and Tricks part to the top with the forum pages listed below and state. "PLEASE use the Search engine first. If you don't find the information you need post your question to the correct forum below." Hopefully that would prompt readers to SEARCH first before asking an already discussed (ad nauseum) question. Thanks for asking for our input.

I think it's a great development. I have gone to a lot of websites where you are pretty much forced to look at the FAQs, etc., before you can ask a question, so it's probably something that people have encountered before. It could help cut down on the truly repetitive questions, although there will always be people who think their question has a twist to it, and therefore the previous posts won't give them specific enough information so they won't bother looking. When I have been looking for info I have always searched first, and generally found what I was looking for. As a result, I have maybe asked two questions in all of my years here.

I like it!!

Hi, Several of you have suggested adjustments that put search at the forefront and make it what you see first before you can find the forum topics or the area where you can ask your question, etc. I hear your point that it would force people to search first and potentially further reduce repeat questions... ...but the Helpline is not here to force you to search. Search needs to be complimentary, not primary. The massive majority of people that come here just need to get straight into the forums and ask their question or reply to others' questions. Getting in the way of that would be a poor user experience. Please also keep this thread on topic or I will remove it. This is not the place to air your disappointment that we don't have a Trip Reports section yet (really, I want it just as much as you). To refine this thread, let me know if you find that this change is reducing the number of repeat questions on the boards. Or, please share if the change has (or has not) been helpful to you in finding the answer you needed right away and made it unnecessary to ask your question. Thank you so much! I appreciate so many of you chiming in!

Its an excellent idea, but if some people don't catch on to how redundant their questions are I doubt they will stop asking them. Some people just don't pay attention. They just hop online and begin a thread without doing ANY research. You cannot protect yourself from stupid people.

Thanks for doing this. I think it's a good idea. I understand the pull between getting people to search for common questions and the fact that it is a place to ask questions. ; ) But it does seem like a lot of same questions get asked--even in the same day! So, I think I come down on the side of making the search a bit more prominent if you can. Thanks. Pam

For just a few of you, I think there is some lack of clarity on what this post is about. The "Ask Your Travel Question" button is not new. It has been there for years. My apologies if that was unclear! To clarify, I made changes to the page that you land on after clicking any of the "Ask Your Travel Question" buttons that are littered throughout the Helpline. I'm referring to what you see when you go here:
http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm?fuseaction=starttopic&wall=general-europe

I clicked the " post your question" button twice before I saw the search button, my screen isn't wide enough to capture the entire page in one glance.

Ah, yes... narrow screens/windows can make it tough to see. My web stats show that ~95% (more?) of people use screen resolution settings that can allow you to see the full width of our web pages, but that doesn't necessarily account for those who don't make their web browser as wide as their screen. Good feedback. Thank you. I'm not too worried about the other comments about how they didn't see the "ask a question" button that appears on threads like this one. I think people know how to ask a question here when they need to. I just added the button to threads a few years ago because there used to be an issue of new users asking their questions within someone else's thread which caused them to rarely get an answer.

>>>>" "Ask your Travel Question" button. I didn't realize it has been there for a while".<<<< Hasn't this always been the ONLY way to ask a question or begin a thread??? In the past, I never thought it that easy to initiate an actual search, unless you were already quite familiar with the Website. I think it's much more obvious now.

It was the actual search box that I meant too. I had width issues. Sometimes those of us with bad eyes blow up that screen, but we lose the edges. And I agree with Eileen that it is much clearer now that search is possible and encouraged. ; ) Pam

Hmm, still think people will just ask questions. My suggestion is people annoyed by them just not answer them.

I agree with Pat that people who are annoyed by questions should just skip them and move on to something more interesting to them, or quickly point out how the answers can be found, rather than reprimand the questioner. New travelers who are confused and don't know how to start are going to ask questions. Isn't that what the Helpline is for? Regardless of how many times the question may have been asked before, or how unfortunately it was phrased, people don't deserve to receive a sarcastic or snarky response. Newcomers who have discovered Rick Steves, especially through his TV shows, feel comfortable asking basic questions and advice here. And in spite of the disclaimer in small print that says answers are supplied by the public and not the ETBD staff, newcomers assume it is sanctioned by RS since it is on this site. If I were employed by ETBD I would really be concerned at some of the impatient and rude responses I have seen. I think the problem is not in new travelers asking the same questions that have been asked before, but in "regulars" who are using the Helpline as a private chat room for their own discussions, and begin to feel that newcomers are intruding on their territory. Perhaps because they have known the answers to these questions for so long and now find it boring, they have forgotten how it might feel to be new at it and be confused. Although it may be helpful to make it easier for new posters to find answers to frequently asked questions, I believe an even more important solution is to remind "regulars" of the purpose of the Helpline and how to appropriately participate. Another suggestion is to supply a travel discussion chat room, open to anyone, but separate from the question Helpline. This might take care of all those discussion type threads and travel reports.

what Pat and D.D. said

How about moving the "Search" box & text to the left side, and the "Ask My Question" to the right side of the page??

"I believe an even more important solution is to remind "regulars" of the purpose of the Helpline and how to appropriately participate." You are assuming we don't do this already. :) "If I were employed by ETBD I would really be concerned at some of the impatient and rude responses I have seen. " That's why we are trying this out. :)

I kind of agree with Charlene that the search function should be to the left and the question to the right. Or stack'em as someone else suggested. You could make Search first and probably keep it to two line or perhaps even one and then the Ask Question line. I know everyone thinks their question is unique so no point in searching. My wife would argue that part of that is related to how students are taught or not taught to conduct research. I don't mind the repeat questions as much as the extremely open end questions - Where should I go? - Maybe a statement encouraging tight, specific questions would be helpful.

My experience here is that some come with questions that are poorly phrased, ambiguous ("best?"), or based on false premises. I think that will likely continue, best efforts to the contrary notwithstanding. Among the cadre of regulars, these questions can push people's "stupid" buttons (they do for me from time to time) and make us think spontaneously of funny or even sarcastic or biting retorts. Fortunately for the Helpline there always seems to be some people who are not in that frame of mind and who have the energy and patience and kindness to educate or disambiguate or do whatever is helpful. Also fortunately we jaded regulars are all grownups who do not need to share our mental repartee on the Helpline, where it does not belong. I hope the Webmaster's new question-asking interface will improve the experience for folks with questions. When you have as much raw content as this web site does, the issue of making it all accessible to users is huge. However, I disagree that the recent threads lampooning clueless newbyism are a symptom of any sort of failure. I think these posts are actually a way of socializing with fellow Helpline veterans, not a response to a problem that the Webmaster needs to solve. As such these posts spring from a generous impulse, though I suggest they are misguided.

"If this website's computer has insufficient capacity for creating a Chat room, perhaps sufficient space could be created by the Webmaster deleting all the discussion threads (questions and replies) that were posted one year ago, or two years ago." There is no issue with capacity. On the topic of getting people to ask better questions, aside from adding a one-liner above the form where you input your question, is there any realistic way of making that better?

"On the topic of getting people to ask better questions, aside from adding a one-liner above the form where you input your question, is there any realistic way of making that better?" I don't think so. People are still going to post it however they want to. I think the current way of doing things where someone on this board then posts an answer such as "Could you give us more details" or whatever, usually causes them to respond in such a way as to make their original question more clear. Webmaster, As to your original question; looks great to me. I clicked on the button, and found "Your question may have already been answered" and a search box to the right side of the page. Couldn't be easier to use. Well done!

The problem with having to ask followup questions when someone posts a vague question is that sometimes the OP, or some other poster, takes offense at the response designed to draw out more details. We aren't asking for more details to "show" the OP that they have asked a bad question, but to be able to attempt to answer it. I think sometimes the OP truly doesn't see that their question was vague, and is offended that they are being grilled for more details. On more than one occasion, though, I have had OPs tell me later that they didn't know what they were thinking in asking such an open question. An example of that was a few years ago, when someone was asking if they could get to somewhere in western Ireland (can't remember the location now) by a certain time of day after arriving at Shannon. It wasn't feasible, as I said, because they hadn't allowed time to get their bags, stop at the ATM, go to the car rental counter, wait for the shuttle to the car lot, maybe make a restroom stop or get something to eat, etc., not to mention the slow pace of Irish driving. She messaged me back, thanking me for the perspective and saying, "What was I thinking? In my head I had myself hopping off the plane and into a car."

...topic of getting people to ask better questions..... I spent most of my life trying to get my students to ask better questions and that was at the university level where they are supposed to be smarter. The answer is not providing more directions because they are not going to read them or it doesn't apply to their question. You might consider having a short statement. "Suggestions for a great answer." Make "great answer" a hot button that would link to a brief lists of the characteristics of a good question. It would not take much initial room and those interested would get some good information and those who are not would blow pass it. Might prevent of the, "best restaurant in Rome, or where should I do, or what are the must sees" One thing I used as students was to consider the "shape" of the answer. In other words, is it a five word answer or a 500 word answer? What do you want the answer to tell you? Some people ask questions that are really not questions. Or they do not want an answer. Rather looking for a confirmation for something they have already decided that they are going to do. While this discussion is interesting, probably not a whole lot that can be accomplished within the limited space and time we have.

Just an observation. I understand the frustration some have with answering redundant questions, and I certainly support making search functions easier and more intuitive so that a newcomer, or even those that have been here a while, can find information. However, keep in mind that two significant factors are at play prompting people to ask "redundant" questions. The first is that regardless of what questions I see, MY question is unique to me and has not been answered before (or at least in my mind). Reading a generic response to someone elses question may only prompt another question in my mind needed to give me an answer. The second is that FAQs or searches of previous questions can suffer from an expiration date. Not all topics, but the responses today for many are very different than even a year ago, let alone five years ago, and that question being asked is in effect an for the search engine results. I take the approach now of providing a polite short response, directing to the search functions or commenting on an aspect of the question not yet discussed. If a question has 20 responses, I usually do not even bothering looking at it except for my own amusement. Adding a redundant answer, to me, is as bad as asking a redundant question. I do not feel obligated to respond to every question, only where I can add value to the responses.

Perhaps open up the Archived Themes on the Graffiti Wall and delete all that 10-12 year old stuff that is no longer relevant or correct. A lot of those subjects listed, are the ones that people keep asking about. Phones, wifi, festivals, can you drink the water, ATM or travelers checks, beer halls, etc. If new readers could read fresh information, then maybe their questions would be answered.

SO... It has been two weeks. For those of you who answer questions regularly, do you think that the changes have helped appreciably? In your head, compare the last two weeks to your average two week period. Be wary that the fact that we've been discussing it may make things feel better when it actually isn't. Or, maybe it feels worse because we've been drawing attention to it. The point is... please clear your mind and let me know in the comments if you feel that adding the search bar to the page where you ask your question has reduced the number of redundant (frustrating) questions. Or, has it stayed about the same? Thank you.

Hmmm... Tough to tell, really. But if you had to pin me down, I would say that the number of overly general or basic questions during the last two weeks has been down a bit. Since there will always be some of those questions no matter what you do, any change will have marginal effectiveness. But it can't hurt, right?

I'm not sure I could attribute it to the search function, but it does seem that we are being asked fewer redundant questions. Of course, there is really no way to know if fewer questions are because they found their own answers, or because they just aren't asking questions right now.

I think the changes are good in that they prompt thought at the time of posting a question. Will they eliminate or significantly reduce redundant questions? I think not as much as desired, but an enhanced search combined with a more tolerant attitude among "regulars" will very much enhance the effectiveness of this forum.

I also think the amount of redunant questions is down just slightly. I like the new placement of the search function. Webmaster isn't there a way you can calculate how many times per day the search function is used? I guess it would only help if you knew how often it was used before the change.

I think the overall number of posts is up, which I think is due to Spring, maybe the redundent ones may be down a trife. I saw 3 different ones mentioning ZTLs in the last 24 hours, so we have some distance to travel there ((see what I did there?)). Someone recently mentioned clearing out the graffiti wall and then with new posts there directing some folk there... maybe good. The new look is good, as far as I think. I think we are approaching a point...

"Do you think that the changes have helped appreciably?" Yes. "Let me know in the comments if you feel that adding the search bar to the page where you ask your question has reduced the number of redundant (frustrating) questions." Yes. Normally in the past two weeks, the question, "What are the must see sights in London?" would have been asked perhaps three to four times per week. It has not been asked once in the past two weeks. "Or, has it stayed about the same?" In my opinion, trying to be objective, it has not stayed the same. Reduced also have been the number of questions, for example, asked about the Cotswolds. I have to believe that people are entering "Cotswolds" in the search, per your new instructions, and coming up with lots of past answers to read. The fact that once common questions are not appearing is evidence in itself that the new improvements are working.

Dear Webmaster: I think adding the search bar, to the page where you ask your question, has reduced the number of redundant questions. I haven't been posting as much recently, but have been lurking in the background, and feel I've noticed fewer redundant questions since you made the change. And also, it appears you've upgraded the efficiency of the Board's built-in Search function, based on my limited testing of it. This would logically be part of the strategy of reducing redundant questions: if they find more relevant topics when they search, it should reduce somewhat the number of redundant questions. As a personal example, yesterday I received a PM from someone who had located, through a search, my original Schengen writeup and this person had a follow up question, which I was able to handle by PM, avoiding a post on the public part of the board. That didn't tend happen so much in the old days (that they would be able to find something like the original Schengen post using the built-in Search function). So, I like the change and appreciate your work on this!

I like it! As a corporate communications professional, I am well aware that it is NEVER possible to make people READ and follow instructions, rather than blow by screens that interfere with their agenda, but this is a really awesome improvement. I think it will help - thanks!

I'm not sure what has caused people to behave differently, but the Helpline seems less cluttered by the old standard over-and-over-again questions. Something seems to be working!

We started working on it several years ago, with the FAQ topic but it wasn't a sticky then and we had to keep bumping the FAQ every day. Then the Webmaster made it into a sticky, which helpedbut we still had a built in Search function that didn't find things. Now the Webmaster has given us a Search function that does work, and a reminder to those about to post the redundant question. You see, there IS progress in the world! :)

I posted something to another forum years ago on a totally different subject and was promptly shot down by the regulars who felt they owned the board. I can still feel it. For that reason, I've posted lots and lots of redundant answers. When I get tired of helping, I'll just stop. I think redundant questions are somewhat inevitable, but anything to lessen them (in a positive way) is good, so I encourage this effort, I just don't expect it to completely solve the problem. The best course to find answers on the Internet is to do some research and conduct some good searches. A lot of people don't have the skills or patience to do that, though. That's okay, too. The way I address redundant questions to which I've already written or seen a response, and the way I kind of nudge people towards demonstrating the benefit of a good search, is to post links in my response to past Helpline questions and answers. I generally do it only when the same or similar question has been asked recently so the information is current. I hope it helps. If posting links is frowned upon, no one has ever let me know.

In my opinion the repeated questions have gone down in a significant way, though they are still present.

I had held off answering this to give it some time. I really think it is making a difference. New posters are giving more details, asking more specific quesitons rather than general ones, and seem to either have been 'lurking' and reading for a while, or they are searching before asking!! I think it is a great improvement. Thanks for your hard work.

I am a newbie and have noticed some of the responses are rude and can tell people are frustrated. It is overwhelming wading through the information since in each category there can be 20-50 questions each day. I used the search option for the first time today since I noticed the bar and even though I asked a question I can feel assured that it has not been asked recently. So I do think it is working at least for me.

I think it may be helping.... I've not kept track but that's my feeling. Thanks, Webbie.

I am a regular on the website. I just dont see the problem with repeat questions. If someone doesnt want to answer dont. However sometimes repeat questions get answers from someone new to the site.