First Trip To Europe This Summer - Safety?

Practicing smart travel by not being an easy target for pick-pocketing, and incorporating awareness of goings-on around you, where you are and at what hour, etc, can pretty much ensure you'll move through Europe unscathed. It is important to not over state the safety question, imo. If cost is not an issue, then an RS tour may be just the thing, it takes a lot off your (and your husbands) plate. It sounds like your girls will love Europe, good luck with your planning.

Do your own thing, not a tour so that you can cater for your individual requirements. Bad news travels much further than good news. I was in Berlin for a week in December and didn't notice any migrants and there are thousands there.

All we hear about in the UK are numerous school shootings in America, but I assume this hasn't stopped you sending them to school? Just exercise the usual caution and I am sure that you will be fine.

If you are interested in pursuing a Rick Steves tour, here is the link for the Family Tours: https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/family-tours. While these are different itineraries from the one we took with our grandchildren a few years ago, we have since also taken them on the Germany-Austria-Switzerland tour. From what you say you and your family enjoy, I would think any of these three itineraries would suit your family just fine!

It sounds like a tour may be best since I read a lot of "stress" and "overwhelmed" in your post. A tour may give you a peace of mind, so take a look at which best fits your needs and you'd feel most excited about. The MyWay Tours may do the trick as they give you a lot of autonomy to do your own thing without the rigid tour schedule, while still taking care of the logistics.

Thank you all for such quick and thoughtful responses! I appreciate the advice not to overthink the safety issue (I believe Dave?) and Jennifer's excellent point about bad news and American school shootings! (which is one reason our girls attend a private school in Dallas, but anyways...!). I also appreciate the links to the family tours, which I am considering. I am clearly a small town girl who has not traveled much, because it truly does seem daunting to plan our own trip around Europe under the best of circumstances, and now factoring in potential safety concerns with current events in mind, but I probably should think of it much as if we were going to travel to a part of the United States with which we are unfamiliar. I look forward to further responses to give me more insight and ideas!

st,

" We originally wanted to travel to Munich and Salzburg, but it seems those two places in particular may still be impacted in rail travel, cleanliness, and general safety."

I was in Salzburg and Vienna in September during times when there were many refugees in the stations, and didn't have any concerns in the least about "safety". I've also travelled in Munich on many occasions and usually stay in the area near the main station which some consider a bit "dodgy", and again no concerns.

I get the impression that you might be more comfortable with the more structured environment on a tour, and that's certainly an option. Which tour to take will depend on which parts of Europe you want to see, and whether the tour will cover the sights you want to see. A tour may not allow as much time to see some of the sights you're interested in, so that would have to be considered. If you're interested in just focusing on Germany and Austria, the 14 day Best of Germany, Austria and Switzerland tour seems like a good fit, as the longer time frame should allow you more time to see the sights. Most tours have free afternoons and evenings as well as at least one entirely free day, so that provides some flexibility. If you'd like to cover a wider part of Europe, you could consider one of the 13/14 day Best of Europe Family tours.

As this is your first trip to Europe, taking a tour would also provide a more "gentle" familiarization to travel in Europe, and provide the skills you'll need to return on your own in future. I've taken eight RS tours and I'm absolutely confident that it would be one of the best travel experiences you've ever had!

Being a "newbie" at European Travel and your husband's amount of "stressing out" does seem to put you on the list of a tour group. Safety - I don't think Europe is any more or less safe than the USA. There are crazy nuts all over the world.

Sound of Music - don't put your eggs into that basket because it's one of the most OVERRATED sites in Salzburg. The movie was filmed at several different locations. The main house facade was not the same as the main house with the lake in the rear. You can only see the lake from a distance on the road. There are just SCADS of quality things to see and do in Europe - Sound of Music is not one of them.

Aw, Tim, spoiling the young girls' pleasure and excitement about seeing the Sound of Music sites is like telling a little kid there is no Santa Claus.

I agree with Norma. If this is important to the girls, let them take one of the SOM tours in Salzburg and decide for themselves if it was worthwhile.

There is no Santa? What do you mean Norma? Ahhhhhhhh

In my mind its safe to travel where you want to go, but I travel a lot and have a good comfort level to begin with. The idea is to enjoy the trip and if you think you would be more comfortable with Rick S. then go for it. For an organized tour you cant do much better................. (now I have to check the mail box for my payment). Naaaaa, its all good. Do what makes you feel best. All people here can do is tell you their personal feelings; and since you don't know these people and there is no bench mark to judge against, you just have to go with your gut. How ever you decide to go I am certain you will have a wonderful time.

James, I appreciate your wise (and kind) advice. And Ken and Norma, thank you for your encouragement and support! I understand what Tim is trying to say and would be inclined to agree, but if we go to Salzburg, there are plenty of other worthy sites to see, as well as a side trip to Hallstatt (not sure I'm spelling that correctly). All of you who think a RS tour may be the best intro to travel in Europe are striking a chord with me. It would alleviate hubby's concerns and give me the chance to enjoy everything (and manage my crew) without figuring out the small details each day. All of you who have traveled in Europe recently are very reassuring to me regarding the general feel and safety there. Thank you. I'm excited to move forward with the planning stage now!

Here is a tip I got 30 years ago. Sew a Canadian flag on your pack (luggage, jacket, whatever...)

I am Canadian, but i met so many American backpackers who passed themselves off as Canadian for the added sense of security and courtesy extended to a non-American.

If more people had been vigilant and stood up (as in the Sound of Music) maybe there would not have been a Dachau. Be vigilant and stand up. Make your trip without fear.

Howdy s.tag! (Hint on where I attended college)
Please travel without fear.
If you feel the need to display a flag wear the Dallas Cowboys logo.
Do take a Rick Steve's tour as these set a platinum standard in every imaginable manner of tourist travel tours.
I suggest directly contacting Rick's travel folks to converse about a tour suitable to your family needs and desires.
Gig 'em!

Hi Saffy,

I think you'd really enjoy the family tour or Best of Europe.

The best part of a tour is that someone else is in charge of the logistics and decision making.

It's super low stress and lets you sit back and enjoy the experience.

Book now!

Got a little story for ya Ags. O'l Rock the good Ag took a trip to Europe......... ahh wait, wrong story, wrong time of year. Never mind.

Ahhh..... "Good Bull!"

saffy,

If your budget will allow, a tour would be a good "introduction" to travelling in Europe. Have a look at the tours section of this website and watch some of the tour videos to get some idea of the type of rooms, meals and the general experience.

You might find this one enjoyable to get you started.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmgOy9fGHjE

Saffy i have travelled to europe for several decades now indepently, sometimes solo, sometimes with family or friends.

However about 7 years ago i took my 11 yr old daughter on my first tour ever.

RS Family Europe.

IT WAS A BLAST. My daughter had so much fun, and learned more then she might have with just me...

I highly recommend it if you can swing the expense.

Sometimes a tour is what you need... You could also look at MyWay, as they will handle the logistics but leave you plenty of time to plan your own days.

Nothing against RS tours but if they don't fit your needs look at GoAhead... Lots of choices and free time also if you wish.

I think once you go you will realize your fears were unfounded and you will wonder why you were afraid... It can be life changing for your children... You will all love it!

My grandson loved Salzburg and the Sound of Music stuff, and so did I.

saffy, we've been fortunate to have enjoyed multiple visits on our own and also tours. For the first time out we feel that Ricks tours are well organized and with very good guides and also allow a lot of free time to do things that interest your family. Once your start, the hotels are set, the transportation is set, 1/2 of your evening meals are set (some guides will invite you to go to dinner with them on your own $ on the evenings that dinner in on you), most breakfast are included. and your lead guide arranges for "local" guides at specific sights to enhance your experience, and no additonal charges are added during the tour unless you choose to do something on your own. Your lead guide will help to suggest things to do in your tour free time slots. We driven most of Western Europe and done a lot on our own. We feel the tours keep you moving and provide stuff to do and see that we would have missed on our own; as we found when a tour traced similar paths that we had done on own own. This April will be our 14th Rick Steves tour. Enjoy your planning and the advice from some really special posters on this sight. Make it a great day!

I'll add another recommendation for you to take a serious look at the Rick Steves Family tours. We took our grandkids (ages 8 & 9 at the time) on one in 2008 and they had a fabulous time, as did their parents (my daughter and son-in-law) and myself and my husband. Maybe one of the two itineraries will be exactly what you're looking for and just the perfect trip for your family.

I have received so many thoughtful and encouraging responses here and just want to thank all of you! I was unable to respond to the last few until now - I want to thank Andi, Andy, Pat, Nordheim, Terry, Ken, and Marblesides for affirming the value of a Rick Steves tour, especially when traveling with children, and for promoting "travel without fear." Clearly something I need to embrace! :) I will add one more follow-up when I commit to a specific plan, for any who like "the rest of the story!" This American loves Canada and appreciates funpig's genuinely well-meant suggestion, but thank you, David, for pointing out that if more people stand for who they are and what they believe, the world will be a better place (assuming we do it with a good blend of strength balanced with respect and tolerance, unlike our politicians are currently demonstrating!). And gig 'em, Marblesides! Or as my hubby would tell you, Hotty Toddy!

I think a RS tour would be perfect for you. You might enjoy reading Scrapbooks people have made of their tours so you can get a sense of what they're like... Go to the Home page on this forum and click on Scrapbook Contest..... : )

Yes, someone else recommended that and I have enjoyed the Scrapbooks! Thank you.

MarbleSKIES - I will use my reading glasses from now on! Hope I haven't misspelled any other names or forgotten to thank anyone else.

All good advice above, just to chime in to make sure you add at least one day at the front of your trip (before the tour starts) to allow recovery from jet lag. You all deserve to get off on the right foot with an easy day before you hit the ground running. This will vastly improve your stress level and help you stay alert, and possibly keep you from killing each other. :)

Also, even on the regular RS tours, you have plenty of your own free time that you can plan your own fun. IMHO, the balance between free/structured time is the best part of the RS experience. Depending on the route you select, your girls can help pick things to do in the free time that interest them.

Just to put things into perspective. Your greatest risk for injuries will be the drive to the airport. The risk to the average tourist is no greater today than last year.

@ saffy...Why is that husband of yours stressed out? What's causing that in him? I can well understand seeing him that way..stressed out, complaining if he is, worrisome, etc will stress you out unless you can become immune or indifferent to it. So, if he were not that way, neither would you be, at least, not to the same degree. It seems you're calmer than he is. I am concerned too about safety since my itinerary plans have me (solo) taking the night train in June to Munich Hbf., have no desire to encounter the refugees. But I do know the refugees are not going to jump me in the streets (if they happen to be there) to get my cash, wallet, etc which I could be easily here. As long as they won't jump me, I'm not concerned in that regard on danger to life and limb.

I heartily recommend that in Salzburg your daughters and you visit both Mozert houses. Walking from the train you run into Mozarts Wohnhaus, much less touristy, less visited, still worth your attention, you cross the bridge to Mozarts Geburtshaus (house of birth) on the Getreidegasse, can be super crowded, more visitors.immediate neighborhood very touristy, swamped with tourists to be sure in the summer. A must , these two houses, if they are determined Mozart fans.

In these safety threads the notion that Central or Eastern Europe might feel safer due to fewer migrants (some times I mention it, some times Ilja among others). I just came from the train station in Budapest that got all the news coverage last year. All the vandalism has been repaired, the place is spotless clean and not a migrant in sight. It will be interesting to see if it holds up when the weather warms up.

Hotty Toddy, well gosh almighty! Land Shark Nation-- Safe is a relative term. Why just the other day, someone for the great state of Texas experienced road rage, in OK, and killed several innocent folks. Gee, guess I shouldn't travel to OK, or church, or movies, and on and on, since it is so dangerous. News does travel fast, the nastier the fastest. Our news stations don't just report the news, but exploits it.

If you are not willing to go it alone, especially on the first trip, then try RS Tours.

That's an unpleasant response. RS Tours aren't a compromise, they are excellent solutions for those whose style, resources, interests fit well with them.

Absolutely agree .. RS tours are not a consolation prize .. they are great.. if they are not for you fine ( but most folks say that haven't taken a tour and if they did it was something like a Globus or Trafalgar 20 cities in 21 days tour.. lol )

Rs are good products for those who wish to test the waters.. or enjoy not having to do a lot of research and planning themselves( some folks are too busy or simply not interested in detail work)

Pat and James, I appreciate once again your positive remarks and kind encouragement!

Debra, I'm sure you didn't intend it, but you sound a little condescending towards me for expressing concerns about travel safety. I felt that Fred came across that way, as well, in asking about my husband's anxiety when traveling. All I can say is, every person is a first time traveler the first time they travel! And it seems much more reasonable and normal for an inexperienced person to ask questions before jumping in. It appears from some of your other posts that you have taken RS tours, Debra, so I'm sure you aren't implying they are a compromise, but you did sound a little judgmental about my "not being willing to jump in and plan/travel on my own." And I may or may not be! Why does it matter? :) As to Fred's questions about my husband, they aren't really pertinent to my original question (which was about safety, not about his anxiety), but I will say that he is just one of those persons who doesn't embrace change or new experiences, and his lack of knowing what to expect makes him nervous. However, the trips I have pushed him on (Estes Park, Mackinac Island) have shown him that it can be fun and educational to travel, and the experiences stay with you forever. So I know that, regardless of his initial feelings of anxiety, he will enjoy whatever trip we wind up taking this summer! And so far, anywhere I've gone with this man, we run into somebody from his great state of Mississippi, and usually his region, the Delta, so he will wind up realizing that the "risks" of adventure and spending money are worth it! (seeing his "homies" always gives an experience validity, in his mind) I hope Debra and Fred don't feel I have snarked at them - definitely not my intent - but I've noticed even on other posts that some responders have a tendency to demean those who may have questions, fears, anxieties, concerns. My feeling is, if you don't have helpful information to share or can't say it with kindness, maybe it's better to silently judge and move on to something else. :) BTW, Fred, as a former music teacher, I really appreciate your comments about the Mozart houses. We would definitely want to visit any site relating to Mozart! Always nice to have information from someone who has actually been there! Peace, saffy

And doing a quick read-through again, maybe I am the one overreacting! Lots of great help from many wonderful, well-traveled people here. I appreciate it all.

@ saffy.... No offense take at all. I'll focus my comment to you not on the husband's concerns. I can understand the safety concerns of a first time traveler over there since it is partially the fear of the unknown, quite reasonable, and it deals with each person's comfort level. I was in that position in 1971 my first time over at 21 going solo for 12 weeks, as student backpacker, my first time away from home, away from Calif. My folks were naturally concerned esp that I was going alone with the intention of visiting 5-6 countries. I had safety concerns too, esp when I would be out at night , presumably solo, in a city. Once I found out that the chances of getting physically accosted in the streets, worse still, jumped ( something easily happening in SF ) were next to to nil, I lost most my concerns on safety. That was a big relief. Just worry about pickpockets people told me, well I dismissed that back then, the fear of getting jumped was the main concern. Never got pickpocket then. Bottom line it depends on one's comfort level.

On the Mozart sights outside of Salzburg: take a day trip to Linz. There is also a Mozart Haus in Linz, information as to its exact location is given on the big city map stand in the city center. Remember Mozart's Linz Symphony (considered one of his best) which he wrote while living in that city.

I did not mean to come off as condescending, so I humbly apologize. I have personally taken numerous RS Tours. They are a great way to get from point to point, without having to drive yourself or take a train. The local guides are really knowledgeable, if you take a regular, not myway tour. Days before my first RS Tour, the London Tube was bombed in 2005. Not only was this my first tour, but my very first trip to Europe. Within minutes my parents were calling to make sure I was cancelling my trip because it was too dangerous. I did not, and I am so glad I didn't.

I was just trying to express, poorly, that horrible things happen everywhere.

Fred, thank you for your response. I really appreciate it, especially the background information on your own first experience going to Europe. I wish I had been that bold when I was young and single! With each response to my post, I am seeing that my fears are based more on the unknown, since it is true that we face the same potential dangers in the United States all the time. I am very grateful for all the input I've received here. If we do take a RS tour, I am already confident we'll have great company and a wonderful experience!

Debra, I really appreciate your response, as well. After I walked away from the keyboard and did some other things, I decided I was being way too sensitive. You were just giving a tongue-in-cheek response, so I apologize as well! :) We are fellow Texans...I live down the road from you, basically...in fact, when I first moved to Dallas, I couldn't stand not seeing many stars in the sky at night (because of the city lights), so I would drive all the way out somewhere between Frisco, which was nothing back then, and Celina, and drive down a country road. I'd get out of my car and gaze up at the skies and just drink in the black night with shining stars! I hope you still see stars out there! I know everything north of us has grown a lot, and I don't have time anymore to make that sweet drive. Thank you for taking time to respond again, and I will try not to turn this into a pen pal situation! (I love to write) :)

@ Saffy... . My apology too if I came across as too blunt. I totally realise that times have changed in Germany and Europe in the last 45 years, even if this migrant influx/crisis had not taken place. With this change includes crime but then as now, it's still Kindergarten compared to the US.

As I said, my folks were concerned about my safety, not so much because I was going for 12 weeks but that I would be by myself, a solo tourist tracking down the sites, staying 99% in hostels, since I had never been on my own (I did not have the dorm experience in college, didn't go away for college), never even been on a plane, twice as a kid on a train, and now you're flying 12 hours on a charter flight to London from Oakland, CA! I can see the validity behind their thinking. Was I afraid of flying this first time...certainly , couldn't wait for the plane to land at London Gatwick. Did I get lost walking in the cities in Germany and Vienna looking for the sights? Of course. I waited close to 4 hrs at Gatwick for an acquaintance to meet me as he had promised to do, which we had agreed on prior to my departure During those hours I saw plane load after plane load of American student backpackers arriving, some solo, some in pairs or groups. By 0900 I decided to leave, w/o the guy, took the direct train Gatwick to Victoria Station.

If the locals can cope, so can you. That's the bottom line, when you exclude the fear of the unknown. Have I run into potentially "sticky" situations which could spread like prairie fire? Yes, from time to time, one time was in 1999 in Stuttgart walking back after dinner ca 2100 or so I saw a large, noisy night demonstration, banners and all, peaceful too, made of Kurds or some other group (they were not Germans), I didn't stick around and left before they came closer.

@ Saffy....one more thing as regards to general safety, I mean to allay your fears.

Because of the migrant crisis, you can bet that in Vienna (if you go there, the trains stations), Salzburg, Munich etc, the police patrols will be visible. Before the migrant crisis began in Sept 2015, I saw numerous patrols made up of police (Polizei) augmented by DB personnel carrying the shoulder patch "DB Sicherheit" (Security), or in Germany private security with the patch "Wachtpolizei" To be sure at night in the train stations and up on the platforms, you'll see them as I did in Leipzig, Berlin Hbf, Hannover Hbf, and also Wien Westbahnhof.. I've not been to Wien Hbf at night. The patrols are always in pairs or triples, two guys and/or a woman (Polizistin).

Something happened with my daughter's train from Cologne to Bonn last night. Canceled or delayed for some reason and they ended up on a late night bus if I understood her correctly. Cologne is crawling with cops for the celebrations this week. I would still prefer she be here in Budapest. No migrant related issues and life as normal as it has been for a decade.

Fred, first time I have been on the 4 Metro for more than one stop. Magnificient. The 2 line got all new equipment last year and while it is pretty first class now I miss the old battered "worker's drab grey/green" rolling stock. They should leave one on each line for sentimental reasons. They are also slowly replacing the old cold war era trams with modern stock. This is why I encourage people to head east. Rome and Paris will be the same in 1, 5 and 10 more years, but Eastern Europe is changing quickly and it's see it now or miss a piece of history forever.

(1) Is it much less safe in general in Europe now?; and (2) What RS trip would you recommend? My girls were very excited about seeing all the Sound of Music stops, and I was very interested in visiting Dachau. However, we would enjoy any place in Europe, I am sure!

(1) Probably not much.
(2) I wouldn't hesitate to take my family to the places you mention.

"Something happened with my daughter's train from Cologne to Bonn last night... Cologne is crawling with cops for the celebrations this week."

That should be reassuring, actually. The new Cologne police chief has the task of making things perfect after the NYE events his fired predecessor oversaw. On the pro-active end of things, the Cologners are providing migrants "tips on how to behave."

Some 150 migrants, many of them wearing costumes, took the crash
course organized by Caritas, a welfare association. It included
performances by a local samba band and tips on how to behave during
what's known as the "fifth season," when millions across the western
Rhineland region take to the streets and pubs for five days of
partying.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_29464328/germany-migrants-get-carnival-lessons-ahead-party-season

Still, I think avoiding big-city crowds like these might be a good plan, saffy, if you want to play it safe. (Carneval btw has proven itself a little rough over many years - when there was no mass immigrant migration.) A recent poll I came across indicates that about 1/3 of Germans intend to avoid large crowds themselves in the future, so you'd be in good company.

@ James ....True about the M4 subway line in Budapest, fantastic. I agree that one drab subway coach should be left for sentimental and historical reasons, doesn't hurt, just have it refurbished inside but with the same "furniture" as of yesteryear. When I got to Paris the first time in 1973, the Metro seats were still made of wood.

Those courses you are referring to have been mocked as not only ineffective but also, clearly, just way out of line. Very insulting stuff. I say this as a professional educator who works with refugees providing training to them on living in the US.

Russ, her school is encouraging the kids to go. I would feel better if Germany had honored her CHL.