First trip to Europe

Italy looks exhausting-consider dropping Milan and Sicily.

My first reaction is that this is an awful lot for a first trip to Europe. Have you been overseas before? Do you know your travel style? . Plus, these are mostly big cities, and it can be disorienting and exhausting to try to get your bearings in a new city every few days! Small towns are a lot easier for short visits, and there is a lot of small town charm you'd miss if you visit mostly these big cities.

FYI, you'd probably want to try to go from Prague to Vienna to Budapest and then on to Zagreb - your train between Prague and Budapest might pass near or even through Vienna anyway.

I've rarely seen cases where these rail passes pay for themselves. You may get the convenience of being able to jump on some trains with short notice if you aren't firm in your plans, but on some trains you still must make + pay for reservations even with a pass. I've always just purchased train tickets on the go (even easier now with a smart phone - some train systems let you buy tickets with your phone and just display the ticket on your phone to be scanned, without any paper involved).

Consider renting a car here and there e.g. in Slovenia where it's easy for Americans to drive and usually not expensive to rent a car. You don't want/need a car in Ljubljana itself, but there are little towns and scenic drives nearby that you'd miss without your own wheels.

Hi! I don't have any advice about if your itinerary is too aggressive or not. I think it sounds good, but that is me. I tend to be on the bite more aggressive side of travel.

What I did want to say, is when doing some family research, it helps to make appointments before you get there. We did some family research in Germany, and one place that I did not make an appointment in was a disaster. Things got lost in translation, and the person we really wanted to see wasn't in that day. The other places I did make an appointment with before we left on our trip, had everything together and were really willing to help us. One lady even got a hold of the blueprints for my Great-Great Grandfather's Saw Mill. So that was really cool! I know that Hungary is not Germany, so it could be a totally different experience. I would also suggest having a plan in place of what kind of information you are looking for. Are you looking for government records? church records? That will also be a factor in who you contact.

Sounds like a fun trip! Good luck with the family research!

Hi Cala,
Yes, dropping Sicily is a good idea. Milan probably not as we will be doing some family research there also.

Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, we have traveled before but only to South America and throughout the Caribbean. I will certainly look at the Prague to Vienna to Budapest and then on to Zagreb route. I did look at car rentals and found that most countries frown at renting to folks over 65 and not even talk to 70 year old's. LOL Can't say as I blame them. Seems to be more hassle free to just jump on the train. Have looked at train schedules on Bahn.com website and looks like its most doable. While the itinerary looks busy, we do intend to spend quality time in the cities just sitting and people watching. I do wish we could replace some of the big cities with some smaller ones though. I will look at that. Thanks again.

Hi Susan,
Thanks for that info. While I do speak Hungarian fairly well, I will see about setting up some appointments ahead of time. Looking forward to Budapest and talking some local lingo.

Have you figured out the transportation between these places and what that means for your time? How long do the trains take/how often do they leave? For example, if there is one train a day between two places and it leaves at 2 and gets there at 7 ...that means very little time that day in the arrival town. Which is perfectly fine, if you take that into account and don't count it as a day visiting that city. The issue is that sometimes people think they have 3 days in a city when the train arrives at 7PM on day 1 and leaves at 9AM on day 3 - so effectively only 1 full day. So my first advice is draw it out with transit. It seems like a ton of hopping around to me, but I haven't connected all these places.

I have spent a fair bit of time in Italy and your Italy plan looks difficult. Lets say you do 3 nights in Venice, Florence, Milan, Naples, and Rome. That's over two weeks right there - and 3 nights is low for most of these places. Unlike the other Italy places you mentioned, Sicily is not one city, it is a whole region and to see it takes time. I'd either skip it or skip 2 other places in Italy to fit it in.

slb137, I wasn't suggesting to rent a car instead of taking trains throughout your journey. I was suggesting you rent one here and there where it might make things easier or allow you to see more things. I love train travel and try to use trains in Europe whenever I can, but sometimes renting a car makes sense.

For example, on my last trip to the area last May, I flew into Venice, took a DRD transfer to Ljubljana (no easy train connection between Venice and Ljubljana), spent a few days there, rented a car for just one day, then worked my way back through Italy and France mostly by train up to Paris. But renting a car for just a day in Slovenia was rewarding and practical. I could never have enjoyed the same scenery by bus in the short time I had. On a past trip, I rented a car for a few days to drive around the little towns of southern Bohemia before dropping the car in Prague. Taking the bus from town to town (trains don't get you everywhere) would have been completely impractical.

I have no idea if there are maximum age restrictions on car rentals in Europe (beyond a minimum age, anyway). But you would find out when trying to make a reservation. You do need a valid US driver's license as well as an International Driving Permit (IDP) - about $20 USD at an AAA at home.

Believe me I am really appreciating all this feedback. I'm trying to take one or two cities at a time versus looking at the whole picture. As I said before, time is of no consequence. Whether it takes 4,5,or 6 weeks, it doesn't matter. At our age I don't know if we would undertake this kind of trip again. I know we won't hit the tip of the iceberg in even 6 weeks but do have several things on the bucket list. Prague maybe with a side trip, Budapest maybe with a side trip and family research, and Vienna are for sure. After that we may head straight to Italy.
Milan because of Bergamo (family research), Florence, Rome (Vatican) are for sure. Anything else would be OK but not necessary. Trying to do the most (without killing ourselves) we can and still have time to stop and smell the roses along the way. I have Rick's guide books, and am trying to put a number of days to each city based on his guides if that makes any sense. With a little time for sitting at the cafe's and watch the world go by. My wife is going for the sightseeing. I'm going to eat. LOL

I am very impressed at your plan to spend 3 nights or more in each location. This is very clever and one of the first pieces of advice that is usually given to newer travellers.

As to the Zagreb stop, I am a big fan of Zagreb. Also Ljubljana - both overlooked by neophyte travelers usually. What is your family background? Looks Mitteleuropean certainly, but what specific group?

If I had 6 weeks I’d go for something like this ...

Start in Prague for 3 nights
Budapest for 5 nights
Vienna for 4 nights
Salzburg for 3 nights
Venice for 3 nights
Milan for 3 nights
Florence for 5 nights
(fly to) Sicily for 7 nights
(fly to Naples and) Sorrento for 5 nights
Rome for 4 nights
Fly back to USA from Rome

Hi Paul,
The more I read up on Zagreb and Ljubljana the more I want to see them. At least 2 nights each place. I like the Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Zagreb, Ljubljana route mentioned earlier. Then on to Italy. My grandparents are all from Hungary. Little village 60 miles south of Budapest. That's why I speak it fairly well. Someone mentioned earlier about the long train rides and connections. I have tried to take that into account when determining how many nights to stay in each city/town. The only firm dates I would like are the flight to Prague, the Prater Festival in Vienna (running from 9/27/18 - 10/14/18), and the flight out of Rome. The rest I would like as flexible as possible within reason. I know I will have to have some hotel reservations in there somewhere though.

The more we travel, the most I tend to prefer at least three nights in a location to give you two full days there without having to fuss with inter-city transportation. The only one night I try to do anymore is if we've got a late or early flight and makes sense to be close to an airport then.

I haven't seen any problems (or increased fees) when I've looked at auto rentals in Europe and tested +65 and even +70. I usually start with autoeurope.com (a consolidator) to see what major companies are available and then compare with the their websites directly.

You are likely to arrive in Europe in a sleep-deprived, jetlagged haze, making your first day and often your second as well pretty ineffective. I always advise planning at least one "extra" night, i.e. one more than you think you need, in your first stop. On trips that are 3 weeks or more, it's a good idea to plan one "down" day every week or so - just to relax and recharge, run errands, do laundry. Also, consider that each move uses up an average of 1/2 day, door-to-door with packing etc. Then there's the time it takes to get oriented to each new place, sometimes with signs in a new language, different currency, and always a new public transportation system.

I agree with the advice to skip Sicily on this trip. It really calls for at least 2 weeks (better 3 or more) by itself.

If your family connection is in Bergamo, why not stay there? It is a charming hill town. There are a lot of Italian destinations I would choose ahead of Milan, though the duomo is very impressive and some folks want very much to see The Last Supper (book that way ahead). Large cities tend to be time-consuming to navigate, whereas you can often manage a very nice visit to the historically important part of a small town in 4 hours or so.

I think a big-city-intensive itinerary like yours is going to be tiring for first-timers. I'd like for you to have some time to spend in smaller towns, even if it must be on day-trips. Since you have a Hungarian background, I suggest getting a guide book that covers Hungary in some detail; see whether some of the places outside Budapest tickle your fancy.

I am a big fan of both Ljubljana and Zagreb. However, there are many additional places worth a visit in Slovenia and Croatia, as well as elsewhere in the Balkans. You can't spend quality time in every European country on one trip, so you know from the beginning that you face limitations. You get to choose whether you restrict the geographical extent of your trip to allow for a bit more in-depth exploration of the areas you visit. I would consider postponing Ljubljana and Zagreb until Trip #2. You could pick up a budget-airline flight from Budapest to Italy. Check skyscanner.com for flight options. Fares can be extremely cheap if tickets are bought very early.

If you haven't yet bought your rail pass, I urge you to spend some time checking fares on your proposed travel legs. Trainline.eu might be a good source. Look at fares for the immediate future to see what you'd pay if you did not book in advance, but also look at fares for trips as far out as they are available (you won't find info for your travel period yet). The latter will show you the trmendous savings available on longer trips by taking advantage of the promo fares often available when tickets first go on sale. Just prebooking two or three long rail journeys can save a lot of money. It's critical to be sure of your timing before purchasing promotional rail tickets because they are generally non-changeable and non-refundable.

A major problem with a rail pass in your case is that most of the territory you propose to cover does not have high-cost rail fares, so you'll provably pay more (perhaps a great deal more) than you would for last-minute tickets bought individually. You'll be subsidizing other travelers who are visitng the more expensive countries. You may occasionally find that a bus is more convenient than the train, and you'll have to pay out-of-pocket for nearly all buses. As much of your intended travel is between major cities, you'll usually have the option of taking a fast train. Those often require reservations. Reservation fees are not covered by the rail pass, but mandatory reservations are included in the ticket prices displayed by the trainline.eu website. Incidentally, most of us find 2nd class perfectly fine.

At some point during your trip (usually late September to early October), the weather will probably shift between summer and fall. That can mean more rain as well as cooler temperatures, along with the inevitable much shorter days. I sggest tsking a look at historical weather and daylight hours for your target destinations. Monthly averages can be found on major cities' Wkipedia pages. Wunderground.com has actual day-by-day historical data, typically going back about 20 years.

Hi,

Between Sept/Oct of 2018, how many days on the ground do you have? 38? 50? If you have at least 50, then keep Sicily. Both Prague and Budapest are night train connections, arrival time in BP decent. I use a rail pass too and would for your length of trip duration too, in excess of 30 days, definitely but I travel solo.

It's best to have minimum of 3 nights per city. Keep in mind that not every one jets lag. Unless you know for sure that you do get jet lag upon arrival, you may feel totally fine, alert, normal when you land in Prague.