First Trip Ever!

2nd half of itinerary as follows: May 19th: Arrive in Venice May 20th: Day in Venice then 2 hour evening train to Florence May 21st and 22nd in Florence (hoping to do a wine tour, tour lamborghini factory, and see Uffizi), depart for Cinque Terre on May 23rd. Spend afternoon in Cinque Terre (beach time this aft) 1 full day in Cinque Terre (hiking) May 25th: Morning train to Rome - Afternoon in Rome 1 full day in Rome
1 morning in Rome then flying to Greece. We have not yet decided but will try to fly straight to the Greek Island of our choice for about 4 days, then head to Athens for 2 days before flying home. This will be our big rest/relax period before going hard in Athens for 2 days then heading home to Canada.

Ashlee you will be so sorry you only gave the Greek island 3 days,, we went for two weeks out of 12 week trip and deeply regretted not giving the islands more time. That was before you were born I bet,, and I still regret it ,, we spent two days in Athens and could have been one for all I care now, or then . You do realize with a bit of civil unrest in Athens right now,, unless you have some very specific plans, you might prefer just flying from Rome to and island and then back again and skipping athens? In Paris, pick one, either Giverny or Versailles, they both deserve a full day, but with only 3-4 days there you can't do the rest of Paris very well in just two remaining days. Look at Fat Tire Bike tour, you will have a hoot, the one to Giverny was especially fun.

Ashlee, Your Itinerary looks reasonably well organized, and it appears that you've allowed for adequate travel times. However, is there a reason you've allowed so little time for Rome? There's a LOT to see there, so a day or two is just not adequate. Rather than using night trains, you could also consider budget flights. They may in fact be cheaper. In choosing night trains, it's important to check the routes to ensure there are no changes in the "wee hours". As this is your "First Trip Ever", I'd recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door, as that provides a lot of good information on "how" to travel in Europe. The country-specific Guidebooks area are also good for planning touring, transportation within countries, etc. Have you decided yet which islands you'll be visiting in Greece? You may only have time for one. Good luck with your planning!

I agree with Ken, the plan looks pretty good but I would personally want more time in London, Paris and Rome for sure. Also note that the jet lag sometimes doesn't hit you right away so it could be a couple days into your trip where you feel like you just need to go lay down. Also some people (myself included) don't sleep well on night trains so take that into account, sometimes flying is a better option as Ken mentioned.
Congrats on your first trip to Europe, it's a big deal!

As you'll probably soon see, everyone will suggest their own personal preferences on your chosen route. For me, I think you need more time in Barcelona, Venice, and Rome. So much more to see and your time in Rome is particularly short. Also "beach time" in Cinque Terre in May might not actually provide warm weather (so don't count on it). Please also consider that though you're taking night trains, most reports are that sleep is elusive (or fleeting) at best - so thinking that you arrive refreshed and ready to hit the ground running for a full day in a chosen city might not be a reasonable assumption. Also, you'll need to plan for luggage storage because your hotels won't likely be ready for you to check in at 6 a.m. (or, email and be sure they are). have fun planning!

Ashlee Wow what a great opportunity to travel for over a month in Europe! I can tell you have really researched your destinations and considered when and how you will travel. Congrats! Have you already bought your flights? To London, return from Greece? I like that you have considered day trips to the wonderful places outside of major cities. Wondering though if you have left enough time in these fabulous metro areas. For instance, you have only 3 days in Paris and you want to go to both Versailles and Giverny. This doesn't leave you any time to see the City of Light! Same with Munich. I would add more time in the major cities. As you review your itinerary, I would look at the outlier places in terms of cost, distance and geography. For instance, you are only going to be "spending" 2 days in Barcelona and it will cost you a ton of money to do that in night train costs. I would save this for next time. Then you can check to see if there is a discount airline (see skyscanner.com) from Paris to Zurich. Often much cheaper than a train. Geneva is just a business center, so skip it. Also, I think Cinque Terre I would skip this trip. They are just recovering from flood and landslides last fall and you will be there in April. Better another year. I would also consider leaving Greece (another outlier) for another time as you have 6 days allocated there. If you don't have your flights yet, I would drop Greece or at least skip Athens and just do one island. Continued Below

Continued from Above IMHO, you also need at least 2 longer breaks of 4 or 5 days. Paris or Tuscany or Austria? This is a punishing itinerary to keep up for over a month. Glad you have considered travel time as most first time travelers don't! Kudos. Here is the actual travel time, however: pack, check out, get to train station or airport, wait at train or airport (2 hours?), train/air time, time to new hotel, check in, unpack, get oriented, etc. 1/2 day at least for each move. And if I remember correctly the rest of your itinerary, I think you have at least 13 changes. Making for at least 6 1/2 days of travel time once you arrive in Europe. And lots of day trips from those major cities. You are going to spend all of your time on the train or in the air, I am afraid. Also, do not buy a Eurail Pass until you have checked the cost of discount airlines and point to point train tickets. The passes are very expensive and you can probably do without. In Italy, train travel is cheap if you buy 60 or is it 90 days in advance on trenitalia.it. I am sure there will be other suggestios from knowledgeable posters. See what all of us have to say and then edit your itinerary as you want. Let us know what you decide to do! Have a fabulous trip! Bobbie

Ashlee, "Also, I think Cinque Terre I would skip this trip. They are just recovering from flood and landslides last fall and you will be there in April" As you'll be in the Cinque Terre in late May, there's NO REASON to skip that area. Only two of the five villages were affected by the floods, and they've made remarkable progress in recovering from the damage. The "old town" section of Monterosso is quickly returning to normal, and many businesses in Vernazza should be back in operation this spring. For current information on the status of the two areas that were affected, have a look at: www.rebuildmonterosso.com/p/visitors-information.html savevernazza.com/traveladvisor The other three villages in the C.T. will be "business as usual". Cheers!

I have to dissent from the consensus above. I think you make some unrealistic assumptions about travel times and logistics. Good news is you can make your itinerary more efficient logistically. For instance, there is no through night train from Barcelona to Geneva. It's a very long haul by train. This is really a job for air. I also note that you are planning to spend two of your three days in Paris on day trips out of the city. Perhaps you would be better off skipping Paris in that case, and just fly from London to Barcelona. Or save Barcelona for another trip and add the time to Paris, London, Florence, or Rome. all of which are a little shortchanged. (Or, if Barcelona is really a priority, leave off London.) Two things that may not be as easy as you think: night trains and getting about in Italy. You won't regret building a little slack into your itinerary there.

Wow, what great feedback! Thank you, everyone for your contributions. Ken - I have been reading Europe Through The Back Door...It has been such an eye opening and exciting book to read! We have already booked our open-jaw flights into London and home from Greece, so Greece definitely cannot be cut from the itinerary, despite the fact that it is geographically out of the way. It sounds like we will have to choose either Giverny or Versailles, not both. I was hoping we could do both in one very full day, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I would love to spend a week in all of these destinations (and several others!), and am trying to plan with the assumption that I'll be back in Europe for more trips. That being said, I want to see as much as I possibly can in the time that I'm there. I'm having a hard time balancing my desire to see as much as possible, but to also enjoy my trip and not feel too rushed. My explanation for the short time in Rome is that it is near the end of the trip and at that point I was just trying to cram as much in as possible. I think we will at least need one more day there. With that, I think we will need to choose one Greek island and spend a few days there. I have no idea which island - I'd love to go somewhere with good snorkeling/diving if possible. The suggestions about flights are great - I had just assumed they would be more expensive and less reliable than trains, and didnt take the time to consider flying. However, I have a few questions about flying within Europe: - Are the airline companies reliable? Should I be booking now (I'm a planner so I like to book before I go), or wait until we are there to book last-minute flghts? Is the security system similar to that in North America? Do they have the same carry-on regulations?
I would much rather rely on flights than cut out Barcelona.

Sorry, I just want to clarify my questions about flying... I understand that each airline has its own restrictions in terms of carry on bag size, but what I'm wondering about is the carry on regulations in terms of liquids.
I'd rather pick up a regular sized bottle of shampoo, sunscreen etc. in Europe and carry that with me than re-purchasing several small bottles throughout the trip. Also, Rick's book talks about budget airline companies going out of business frequently. Should I be scared that if I book now the airline company will go out of business?

I'd agree that there is no point in doing two expensive and possibly very tiring overnight train trips just to spend one night in Barcelona. Either fly, spend longer there, or leave it for a next trip.

I agree about the time in Barcelona. There's a lot to see and a lot of people. I was there for 4 days and didn't see all I wanted. As Rick says...assume you'll be back. Don't try to do everything and don't be surprized if you need to make some last minute adjustments. Have fun!

Ashlee, Regarding budget airlines..... A few of the budgets in Europe have ceased operations in the last month or so, but most have been reliable. I tend to favour EasyJet as I've always found their service to be good. You absolutely should pre-book budget flights! These often use a "sliding scale", with the price increasing as the seats fill so booking early will save some money. In many cases they don't offer seat selection, so it's a good idea to try and be at the front of the line when boarding starts. Be sure to read the "Terms & Conditions" carefully. Budget flights are usually non-refundable and non-changeable once booked. There will inevitably be extra fees added when you book (ie: for using a non-Euro credit card), but the prices are still reasonable. When you're checking flights, be sure to note which airport is used. Some carriers use "out-of-the-way" airports, which involves extra travel times and costs. The carry-on regulations are similar, but it's important to note that they usually only allow ONE carry-on item. That doesn't mean "one plus a personal item such as a Purse", it means ONE ONLY of the approved size! They DO enforce that. One important point to mention - if you're planning to check luggage with a budget airline, it's a really good idea to get an accurate idea on the weight and pay for that at the time of booking. If they find it's overweight at the time of check-in, the cost is much higher. The regulations concerning liquids in carry-on are the same as here (ie: the "3-1-1 rule"). Items must be no larger than 100 mL in size and in a zip-lok bag no larger than 1 Litre. This is always taken out of the carry-on and placed in the plastic bin separately (the same is usually true for Laptops/Netbooks). Cheers!

Ashlee, Based on the general outline of your Itinerary, here's a few suggestions on one way it could be arranged.... > Apr. 28 - Arrive London > Apr. 29- London > Apr. 30 - London > May 1 - London > May 2 - EuroStar to Paris (St. Pancras to Gare du Nord) > May 3 - Paris (I'd suggest either Giverny or Versailles, but not both) > May 4 - Paris > May 5 - Paris > May 6 - Paris > May 7 - Flight to Barcelona (EasyJet from CDG to BCN, 11:00-12:45, €32.49) - tour for remainder of day > May 8 - Barcelona > May 9 - Flight to Zurich (Vueling from BCN to ZRH, 15:35-17:25, €44.99 - there is also a flight at 07:30 - other airlines fly that route) > May 10 - Zurich - visiting friend > May 11 - Trip to Lucerne? > May 12 - Zurich > May 13 - Zurich > May 14 - Train to Munich (Depart 09:16, arrive 13:29, direct, time 4H:13M) > May 15 - Munich (you can visit Neuschwanstein and Dachau on your own or use Radius Tours.) > May 16 - Munich > May 17 - Munich > May 18 - Train to Venice ( Depart 09:31, arrive 16:40, time 7H:09M, 1 change in Verona) - You might consider taking a day train on that route - I always enjoy the scenery through the Brenner Pass. > May 19 - Venice; train to Florence mid afternoon > May 20 - Florence > May 21 - Florence > May 22 - Train to Cinque Terre (which town are you staying in?) > May 23 - Cinque Terre - hiking > May 24 - Train to Rome (from La Spezia Centrale, about 3H:40M) > May 25 - Rome > May 26 - Flight to Athens (EasyJet, depart 10:25, arrive 13:25, €67.49 PP - Flight to island of choice - consider Aegean Airlines) Continued.......

Ashlee - continued..... Keep in mind that not all of the Greek Islands have airports, so Ferries may be necessary, which will require extra travel time. Santorini is very "touristy", but has some nice beaches. You may need a rental car to get around, so having an I.D.P. would be a good idea. Renting Quads is a popular pastime, but they're SLOW! You could also consider Naxos or Mykonos. You may find it very helpful to have a look at This Website as there's a LOT of good information there on travelling in Greece. Are you planning to buy P-P rail tickets during the trip? If you're using Regionale trains in Italy, BE SURE to validate your tickets or you could be fined on the spot (and the fines are not cheap!). You may also want to have a look at This Website for information on travelling in Italy. Be sure to read the section on the "Mini" fares, which can save a lot of money if tickets are purchased prior to the day of travel. (*Note: website not functioning at the moment, but should be back in operation shortly). If you decide to travel via EuroStar from London to Paris, it would be a good idea to book as soon as purchases are allowed (90-days from day of departure, as I recall). Have a look at This Website for lots of good information. For travel in May, it would be a really good idea to pre-book your accommodations. The RS country-specific Guidebooks have suggestions for good Hotels in various parts of each city, and in different price ranges. There are a few listings for Hostels as well. Are you planning to use Hostels at all? Cheers!

Thanks Ken!
You have been so helpful. the itinerary you have laid out is exactly what I was thinking...we will definitely be using flights for the longer journeys..it is so much cheaper! We are planning to use Eurostar from Londong to Paris, but have bought a ticket yet as I've heard you can get a discounted rate as a rail pass holder. As for places to stay, we are considering both budget hotels and hostels. We have booked with EasyHotel in london (very cheap, seems clean, and provides a safe place to sleep...exactly what we are looking for). I am currently trying to track down a good place to stay in Paris (hope to have all hotels booked prior to leaving). I have the RS Europe through the back door, as well as RS France, and RS Snapshot Barcelona...I will look at purchasing the Italy guidebook in the upcoming weeks, and may consider a few others. We haven't yet decided where to stay in the Cinque Terre, was considering Vernazza but am concerned about it's condition due to the flooding. Any recommendation? when it comes to Greece, we are considering Crete at the moment (though this could easily change). I'm really looking for a place to relax with great beaches and sightseeing opportunities close at hand. Some wine tours or boat tours might be nice. Can Crete offer this? I'm worried Crete is so big we will need to rent a car to get around...I really would rather show up on an island and relax without worrying about how to get places and renting a vehicle. There are so many islands and such an abundance of information on each island that it becomes a bit overwhelming.

Ashlee, "We are planning to use Eurostar from Londong to Paris, but have bought a ticket yet as I've heard you can get a discounted rate as a rail pass holder." I can't remember the details concerning EuroStar discounts for Pass Holders. It would probably be worthwhile to make a call to the Rail dept. at ETBD to get that information. Especially at that time of year, it's extremely important to get reservations as soon as possible, or you might not get a seat! Also note that you MUST be checked-in at least 30-minutes prior to departure of the EuroStar or you WON'T be boarding! Although it won't be completely back to normal, you shouldn't have any problems staying in Vernazza in May. I wouldn't be too concerned about the floods, as the residents have been working REALLY hard to recover and are anxious to welcome visitors back. Have a look at This Website for information on which businesses are open. There's a similar page for Monterosso (if you're interested). In any case, it would be a REALLY good idea to get your accommodations booked SOON! Regarding which island to choose in Greece, I believe Crete IS too large for such a short visit. Although there is local public transport, you would likely have to rent a car (an IDP is compulsory). IMHO, one of the smaller islands would be a better "fit" for your Itinerary. You might send an E-mail to Matt Barrett (www.greecetravel.com), as I'm sure he'll have some excellent suggestions for you. Cheers!