First timers needing advice please

I won't be the only one to say this, but you are trying to do way too much! It's a big temptation to try to "see it all" on a first trip, and it's a double temptation when you travel so far to get there. Your itinerary doesn't seem to take into account adequate travel time between locations, though you say you have checked the distances/times. As a rule of thumb, you lose a half to a whole day in travel between cities (and related things like packing, getting to the station, waiting for your train, orienting yourself in the next city, locating your next hotel and unpacking). The legs where you list "2 nights" means only a single full day to see the city. At this pace, you will mostly see train stations and whatever you can see from the train. I would strongly suggest that you try to pare back the number of cities you want to see. Remember, also, that you will be traveling in non-English-speaking areas. You will come across a lot of people who do speak English, but you can't count on it. Since you haven't traveled in Europe before, you might want to read "Europe Through the Back Door", which will give you a good introduction to basic travel skills in Europe.

Sandra Wow! Your itinerary has all of Western Europe! In 40 days, you are visiting 15 towns/areas and 9 countries. A very very ambitious itinerary. You might find that an open jaw flight is a more efficient way to book your itinerary. For instance, into London and home from Rome. Then you are not backtracking. My opinon is that you are visiting too many countries and towns. As the posters on this board always say, changing destinations costs time and money. I would suggest you spend more time in fewer places so you can absorb the places you visit and get a good feel for the rythym of life in Europe. You are going to see more of trains than you realize. It is surprisingly wearing to keep checking in and out of hotels, always somewhere new, packing and unpacking, always trying to find your way around, etc. I always look at the outliers when trying to trim an itinerary. Vienna is the furthest East in Europe. You might want to consider Saltzburg (easy to get to from Munich and Italy) or drop Austria all together. You are also only visiting one place in Switzerland and France. Another suggestion is to stay in one place for a week or so - rent an apartment in one of the cities you want to visit or in the countryside. You will need some down time from your hectic itinerary. If you are in the country, consider renting a car for a totally different experience. Great you checked travel times. Please be sure to add in the time from the hotel to the train station/airport, the wait time while there, and the time from the station/airport to your next hotel. It usually is half a day. Plot your itinerary and travel times on a calendar. Doing this usually is an eye opener for overly ambitious travel planners. I am sure others will chime in with their great ideas. Bobbie

I will only address a couple of the points with areas I am familiar with. London to Brussels to Bruge and then you are returning again to Brussels to go to Amsterdam. Why return there? This is wasted travel time and costs for you. Bacharach to Rothenburg and then up to Berlin and then back down through Germany is going in complete opposite directions. May I suggest, stopping in Büdingen instead of Rothenburg? Not as far to travel as it is just an hour North-east of Frankfurt, and you get an original, medieval walled town, but without the many tourists. Berlin is a huge city and really needs more than 3 days to even scratch the surface very much. It might be better to go from London to Paris, then hit Belgium, then the Netherlands, then Berlin, then head South to the Rhine, then onto Vienna and Italy. You can pick up a fast ICE train from Frankfurt to Vienna. I have to say that Bacharach is the sore thumb in your plan, it is out of the way of everything else, but if you want to see the Rhine, then perhaps more than 1 day? Look into a flight from Rome to Edinburgh. This will cut down on backtracking to Paris which is going to eat up a lot of your vacation time. Get out a map and see if you can work a plan that will have you going more in a circle. You only have 39 nights in Europe and 14 cities.

Sandra, at first glance I thought the time you had planned for the places you are going seemed quite appropriate. Upon second glance I realized that like some of the others have said some of the distances you plan to cover are pretty long. I agree with Jo that I'm not sure it makes sense to go from Rothenberg back up to Berlin, then to Vienna. But unlike Jo I really think Rothenberg is worth a visit. If it were me I might consider going from Rothenberg to Munich then Salzburg (instead of Berlin / Vienna) then on to Venice. It will considerably cut down on the number of miles you cover. I've done similar routes on a couple of previous trips. Sort of like your trip, but split into two different trips. We also flew from Paris to Edinburg which worked quite well for us. One more thing to possibly consider would be taking a night train or two.

I only suggested Büdingen as a replacement for Rothenburg as they are similar and it would cut down their travel time. It is just that Rick Steves hasn't been there yet to report on how lovely a city it is. Plus, it didn't get burned down in the middle of the 1600's, like Rothenburg did, so actually more authentic and original. Have a look: http://www.buedingen-touristik.de/ That said, there are multiple towns in Germany that would fit the bill of original walled town, filled with old, half-timbered buildings rather than Rothenburg. Have a look at Quedlinburg perhaps, which is more on the way to Berlin. Rick never goes to any of them though, so they aren't his book.

Thanks so much for all your advice. What a difference it makes having some input from people who have been and done it. It is really appreciated and has been soooo helpful. This is where I am at now and no doubt will refne it further Auckland London 5 London Paris 5 Paris Brugge3 Brugge Bacharach 2 Bacharach Rothenberg 1 Rothenberg Munich 4 Munich Sulzburg 4 Sulzburg Venice 3 Venice Florence 3 Florence Rome 5 Rome Edinburg 4 Edinburg London 2 London Auckland Now more longer stays in most places and less cities/countries.
I really appreciate your feedback.

That is 7 exhausting weeks. To streamline your trip: 1. Plan a straight-line route and fly open-jaw. If open-jaw doesn't work, then take a budget flight back to your starting point. 2. Drop some of your destinations. You won't have time to enjoy them all (I'll give you reasons why in a minute). No matter how much travel you do, you will never get to everywhere on your list - because the more you travel, the longer the list gets! So take the time to visit, not just to spin around in a HOHO bus. One way is to rate all your destinations as high, medium and low priority. Then see what you can drop. Also, hard as it may be, drop places that aren't on a straight-line route. I have to admit Berlin comes to mind - it is far and the fast trains don't go there. 3. Start in the south and work your way north. Weather will be better in Italy. Also crowds will be somewhat less. But don't kid yourselves, Italy is always full of tourists and May and June are also heavy tourist months in most of your destinations.

Why I think you won't have enough time at your destinations, in addition to all the above "discouraging" comments above, which I agree with : Orientation time. I can't stress how much energy it takes. New surroundings, foreign language (not just for asking directions, but the signs, the menus, etc), different transportation modes (how to use the bus, metro, tram is different from city to city). Heck, it can take you half an hour to figure out what coffee and snack you want at a cafe (or just how to get the waiter's attention). It is easy to get lost in most European cities - even with a good map. The town centers (where you'll be spending your time) weren't planned out. There are lots of small streets going every which way. Queues There will be lots of other people wherever you are. You will have to stand in line to buy train tickets, museum tickets, an ice cream or a bottle of water. Sightseeing Many of your destinations deserve much more than a day or a day and a half. I am afraid you will leave each place with more regrets over what you didn't see than pleasant memories of what you did see. Maintenance
7 weeks is a long time on the go. You will have to take time to shop for things you run out of - in shops where the packaging is unfamiliar even if you know the brand, and there's that foreign language thing again. You will probably need to do laundry. You will need a variety of clothes for all weather conditions and you won't want to lug it all around with you, even if you pay for overweight luggage on your flights. There are going to be things you didn't pack, you left behind at a hotel or cafe, or just ran out of.

Sandra, we were writing at the same time. I like your new itinerary much better. Are you locked in to flying in and out of London? Is there a way to start in Italy and end up in Edinburgh?

Chani has a good suggestion. If you can fly into say Rome, and out of London, that would mean less distance covered on the ground because otherwise you would have to backtrack to London. If flights from NZ are anything like those from Australia, then I imagine you could not get a direct flight to or from Edinburgh. But it would make sense to do an open-jaw flight. For example last time I went to Europe, I flew Cathay Pacific into London and out of Frankfurt, and this was the same price as a return ticket to either place. This required changing planes in Hong Kong. Of course, from NZ you will definitely be stopping at an Asian airport anyhow.

Thanks Chani and Ted, yes I will certainly try and book open jaw ticket, it will definately save time/money if possible. Sometimes it is limited from here and the specials can tend to be London return. Its all very exciting, thoroughly enjoying the planning and now have RS Europe through the back door for some more tips etc. Your comments have been very much appreciated. Thank you.

I think your revised schedule is pretty good. Do consider the open jaw. Remember to factor in the costs of getting from Rome to Edinburgh compared to the extra cost of open jaw. Remember that some cities can be a base for day trips. For example Brussels/Brugge. In my experience, 1-2 nights in a city is aggressive and tiring after a week of constant moving. So you have some longer stays (4-5 nights) mixed in and that should help you relax in between. I think 4 nights in Salzburg might be too much. It's a smaller city and I'd think 2 nights would be fine. The extra nights could be in Innsbruck or another city altogether. Or if you do go open jaw you could make time for Vienna (3-4 nights minimum).

I'm going to stress the need for 2-3 days spaced out during this trip for rest. You will need that just to recuperate, revive, rest, whatever you want to call it. Travel is tiring and takes a lot out of you. And the older you get, the harder it is. No need to change your itinerary, just think where you can take time to rest both mind and body. When I travel, every couple of weeks or so, I take a day to do a full wash at a laundromat (I'm also washing every couple of days in my hotel room but I get a full wash every couple of weeks.). I might also sit in a cafe or take a nap. It's a day away from sightseeing and one of rejuvenation. I'm then ready to go another two weeks. I'm also 54 and I just don't have the same energy I did when I was 24 or 34 or...last year.

I really agree with FrankII. You need a "down day" every once in awhile, and on such a long trip toward the end it may be every week. Travel is hard work! And stimulating, and over-stimulating! No one mentioned the cost of traveling from place to place so often, train/planes, bus/taxis to/from hotel, etc. I still think you're doing too much, even though you have a good length of time to do it in, though I think maybe the cost of tickets from Auckland to Europe may be driving some of that.

Sandra, I'm 64 and my husband is 54; we're seasoned travelers, very healthy and fit -----BUT! I would never try to undertake your itinerary. I must concur with the people our age who agree that it's too much. When I was in my 20s I backpacked around Europe for 10 weeks, using a Eurail Pass. Could I do that now? No way! I hate to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but I really think you should pare down your destinations big time. If you don't, you're going to be SO exhausted and could possibly make yourself sick. My husband and I are going to Paris for 11 days the end of May and will just do a few day trips. I understand you want to see more than Paris your first time, but I think you should decide what you REALLY want to see and focus on that. Rick says: "Assume you will return and plan accordingly." On paper, schedules always look so feasible, but in reality the logistics of an itinerary like yours can be a nightmare. Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose to do - - - - -

I think you have some good smaller town places mixed in where you can cover a few highlights and then still have some time to relax without feeling like you are missing something. Traveling for 3+ months is way different than just taking a 1-2 week trip. What others said about taking some time off from a breakneck speed itinerary to avoid mental and physical overload is spot on. I totally get your wanting to cover as much as you can when you have come from NZ. I spent a few months traveling the North, South & Stewart Islands and even though your country is only about the size of Colorado and I was half your ages, I was moving around every few days & doing too much. I wound up in a Taupo ER treated for walking pneumonia & had to cancel a multi-day hike and instead returned to Auckland to rent an apartment and rest for a full week until I could continue on. Do pad in time to unwind where you can, even if it means sleeping in late 1 morning, or knocking off sightseeing for a whole afternoon to do nothing but people watch from a park bench or drink wine in a cafe while you write postcards. I wish I could say I'd get back to NZ every other year, but the reality is it's too far & I do regret not having slowed my pace a little earlier because I missed seeing a part of NZ that I likely won't get to see for many more years.