First Timers Europe Itinerary - Family of 4

You've got some monster driving days planned as well as some potentially concerning parking days. Where are you staying on the Amalfi Coast? It's neither car friendly nor parking friendly.

Where are you staying in London where you'll have a car?

Driving from London to Hadrians Wall including York in one day?

Where will you be the morning you're heading to Stonehenge? Where are you dropping off the car before catching the Eurostar? You're not leaving yourselves much wiggleroom to actually see anything.

Traffic south of Naples and into the Amalfi Coast is chaotic and crazy and will take longer than you think. Driving in and around London will be slow and frustrating and eat into the best laid plans.

You already have too many "must sees."
Do not, do not, do not drive to Pompeii. The infrastructure in Italy south of Naples has been sadly neglected, and there is no fast nor efficient way to move around Sorrento and the Amalfi Coast.
No matter what the transportation mode, you don't have enough time for the AC. Traffic congestion on small roads is legendary. The gritty Circumvesuviana regional train is often standing room only, not air conditioned, and kind of runs on schedule .
Even a day trip from Rome to Pompeii using a private tour is a very long day. I'd drop the AC entirely.
Do you know what ZTLs are?
Do you realize that two nights is one full day? You are drastically underestimating transportation times between towns. When you are not familiar with moving around in Europe, you make mistakes, go the wrong way, and lose time. You need to build in room to figure "stuff" out.
One night in Venice will leave you frustrated .
Why don't you fly into Paris and fly out of London?
The entire pace makes my head spin, and will leave you with memories of checking in, checking out of hotels, rushing around, being in cars and planes, but little actual time to enjoy being in a location.
I realize you have spent significant time and energy planning this, but if you want good memories, you need to slim down the itinerary. I mean this in a spirit of good will, having learned by making mistakes and having a wistful itinerary. I'm wishing you a wonderful family trip and safe travels!

Too much travel between places: not enough time in places. The first thing that jumps out at me is that you have barely a day in Venice. Not enough!

Unless you are very interested in Renaissance art, you should consider omitting Florence. You have allotted just one day for it. Why not add that day to the Tuscan countryside? There are many wonderful towns to explore there. Or, do those two days in Florence. You could also add a third day there if you eliminate Pompeii and the AC.
Same advice for London. London is huge and filled with important sights of many kinds. It’s not clear why you would devote one of your three days there to Dover. I’ve never seen Dover on any list of “must-sees.”

It might help you to get some guide books (libraries are a good resource), and identify what most appeals to you. At least some will need reservations. May is coming soon.

We want to see the white cliffs of Dover and dover castle, which means one night of parking in London.

Would you suggest one less day in Rome to spend 2 night on amalfi? We have a beautiful place booked by furore with an ocean view. A bit nervous about renting a car in Italy but we want to experience the countryside. We will not be renting a car during our days in the big cities- we will be picking up the rental cars on the last day in those cities.

To do a day tour to Pompeii from Rome is more expensive- adding $250 pp.

Pompeii is a must for our son who is a future palaeontologist.

Florence is a must for our artist daughter. Can’t we see Tuscany during our drive to Venice? Venice is small and we only want to do a gondola ride and see the Rialto and maybe the cathedral. We will have 24 hours in Venice - arrive early at 2 pm on May 21 leave late.

There is a lot of backtracking and I wonder about sticking the UK portion in the middle of the trip. I am assuming your children are younger…..hence Disneyland. As it reads now you are going to be stuck in a car for half of the days you will be in Europe. All of your driving times are, I think, very optimistic and do not allow wiggle room for delays such as road works, heavy traffic etc. Have you actually plotted out your itinerary on a paper map. I think this would help you visualize what you are trying to do much better.

You are only a couple of months out from your trip so it may not be possible to make major changes. I would put the UK at the start of the trip and fly into London, then head to Italy, and finish in Paris and fly home from there - or go from London to Paris, and on to Italy and fly home from Rome or Milan. One night in Venice…..you are shortchanging yourselves.

Why drive to Dover from London - there is a perfectly good train service that will get you there and back in a day. And why not take the train from London to York and pick up Rental there? saves that horrendous drive out of London….

The 29th is going to be a tight day to get back to London from Stratford, visit Stonehenge drop off rental and be at the station to pick up Eurostar at 3 pm. Unlike most trains in the UK, Eurostar requires being at the station at least 1.5 hours before departure for border and immigration clearance.

Speaking as a retired archaeologist….Palaeontologist = fossils, dinosaurs - none to be found in Pompeii! Archaeologist = ancient civilizations, ruins etc., all those wonderful things Italy is full of.

As an alternative to Pompeii there is a complete Roman city just outside Rome called Ostia Antica. It’s easily reached by metro and train. It too was abandoned but due to the silting up of the River Tiber. Ostia served as the port for Rome bringing in food products from across the Empire. It has almost everything that Pompeii has except the tragedy caused by the eruption.

With your daughter’s interest in art she might like a visit to Borghese Gallery in Rome. It’s full of wonderful sculptures by Bernini and others and paintings by Caravaggio. You need to book in advance and they are strict about numbers admitted at any one time. If you miss your time slot you are out of luck. I have been to a lot of galleries and museums over the years but I think that this was one of the most satisfying to visit..wonderful works of art beautifully displayed, not overly crowded.

It looks like a lot of fun. The only thing I would do different is to purchase transportation instead of renting a car. I dont know that it would cost a lot more and its a lot more laid back and enjoyable. But either way .... go have a blast.

Lots of travel. You will lose all this time that you could use touring.

Not enough time in several places. 2 nights in Florence is way not enough. Have you looked into what there is to see in Florence? Check TripAdvisor things to do in Florence. You need 4 days in Florence.

Also, one night to see Pompeii and the Amalfi Coast, that is silly. Suggest staying in Sorrento for 2-3 nights and visiting Capri as well.

One night in Venice, you need more time there.

York is special, we did three nights there. Check out all the wonderful museums, including the National Rail Museum. Walk the ancient walls and more.

Need a full day to see Stratford Upon Avon and two days to see the Cotswolds.

Map your travels between cities and determine how long they will take. Don't speed or will get expensive tickets.

May 29 is a real stretch.

Too much driving. Do not rent a car in Rome to drive to Pompeii, take the train. Rome to Naples is a three hour drive, or one hour by train. Also, the train is a much better option for Naples to Florence to Bologna to Venice. It's very hard for a car to beat a 300 km/h train. And if you want to visit Pisa from Florence, the regional train is a much better idea than driving.

The same in England, if you want to make a day trip to Dover, take the train. I don't see you mention where you are planning to stay in London, but the thought of having a car in London sounds like the opposite of a nice vacation.

And no, there is nothing of palaeontological interest in Pompeii, but there are some nice natural history museums along your route.

Since you mention that this is your first trip to Europe, keep in mind that trains in Europe are nothing like trains in Canada. And driving in Europe is nothing like driving in Canada, especially driving in cities and urban areas.

And in general a very fast pasted and rushed plan. Too rushed for me, but you might like that way of travel.

Thanks for the feedback. Some areas I was worried about you confirmed for me - 1 night in Venice seems is not enough - we can perhaps cut down Florence to 1 night and do 2 in Venice. May 29th may be too tight to fit in Stonehenge (although our train leaves at 4 pm). What would you suggest we do to see Stonehenge instead?

This trip looks like a blast! You'll love it. I'd echo some of the comments you see above. While having a car gives you great independence, it also can be a burden. So you might want to substitute trains for portions or pick up the car after a train leg when it makes sense.

Happy travels!

Use public transportation to get to Pompeii from Rome. We used Enjoy Rome Tours for transportation to and from Rome. You should skip the Amalfi Coast and add that night to Venice.

One thing that Canadians and Americans don't realize before they go to Europe is that the public transportation system is outstanding compared to North America. We've found that taking the train is a better first choice and then filling in the extra days with a rental car on day by day basis as needed.

I would not trust your final day to have a car AND having to drive to London to drop it off. Personally I'd choose which is more important, York and Hadrians Wall, or Stonehenge. Even with your Eurostar not leaving until 4, I'd want to be in London by noon at the latest.

Whatever you finally choose, I truly hope you'll take the time to report back and let us know how the trip went; the good and the bad.

You are definitely attempting to gain a lot of value from this trip, but wonder if you have considered what memories you desire to achieve from this journey?
To be clear, you are locked into the following due to pre purchased flights:
May 8 - Arrive Paris
May 14 - Arrive Rome
May 22 - arrive London
May 29 - arrive Paris
May 31 - depart Paris

Curious, what are the ages of your children?
Do you envision this as being the only trip you will make to Europe?

Please drop the driving excursions to Pompeii, Amalfi coast and to Florence. These travels represent an imbalance of time/stress/expense in relation to benefits gained. Instead, take a train to Florence on May 18 and hire a driver to help your family explore the region. Please take a deep dive into researching the value of using an experienced driver to help enhance your most valuable vacation commodity, time.
Note: trains drop you off at the center of cities, car rentals incur a variety sins (parking, fueling, tickets, navigation….).

Please post your England portion of the itinerary on the RS England travel forum and ask for best guidance on how to best accomplish your objectives. Perhaps you should do the same for the Italy portion.

Overall, I think you are underestimating the learning curve of first time in Europe in relationship to traveling with a family and striving to see too much.

Consider your present itinerary will have you “see” a lot, but not “be there” much.

So when you return home, what memories do you want to have of this journey?

While having a car gives you great independence, it also can be a
burden. So you might want to substitute trains for portions or pick up
the car after a train leg when it makes sense.

True, a car will just be an expensive burden in many places, and there are many places in the proposed itinerary where a car really makes no sense. But I also want to stress the travel time, trains can save a lot of travel time which I personally think is valuable for such a rushed trip.

It's natural to want to see the major sites/must sees on a first trip, but remind yourself that this is a "first trip". Tell yourself that you will return.
My husband and I have had a few trips with short stays as we traversed the travel territory. It worked for us but we had time and there were lots of tourist hungry b and bs in almost every town or village (2009/2019/Ireland). But the advice here to limit your locations is very sound.

Car rental lines can be long. When we picked up our car at Heathrow this last fall, it took almost an hour to get to the counter and checked out. There are many variables outside your control that can slow the process down. You have 3 rental pickups.

The Dover Castle does look interesting. I see a note that it is closed today due to adverse weather. Parts (including tunnels) are also closed (until autumn 2024) as they create a new visitors' experience. For me, this would be enough of a reason to add this to my next trip.

I totally agree that a car will be a burden rather than a help in most cases. As an example, I want to focus on the Florence segment.

You plan to drive from the Amalfi Coast in 5 hours. ViaMichelin.com estimates 5 hr. 25 min. by the fastest route, and that doesn't include any stops (you'll need a meal and possibly an extra comfort break), traffic delays, searching for parking or walking from your parking place to wherever you actually want to go. (Europe is not a strip mall with parking out front.) At the end of that long, tiring drive, you'll be in Florence for two nights but only one full day and a few hours. You want to see "Tuscany" and Pisa. That means no time for Florence except a very few hours on the day you arrive, during part of which you'll need to eat dinner. That dinner will probably take 1-1/2 to 2 hours if you sit down at a restaurant, so how much time will you actually have to see Florence?

It makes no sense to waste time driving into a congested city like Florence when nearly all your time is going to be spent in the countryside. Find a place to stay in rural Tuscany where the car won't be such a burden. Or get yourselves from the Amalfi Coast to nearby Salerno and take a Freccia train to Florence in as little as 3 hr. 12 min. You can pack a lunch and eat on the train.

The trip from Florence to Venice is estimated to take 3 hr. 20 min. without any time spent in Bologna. Again, that's not allowing for any stops or traffic tie-ups.

No one has mentioned the traffic rules in Italy that can result in receipt of multiple high-cost traffic fines months after you return home. Driving into Florence and Bologna while avoiding streets you're not allowed to drive on is not simple.

You need to check the opening days and hours of key sights you want to see against your tentative itinerary. When you only have one day in a location, it's critical to be sure things will be open there. Closing days vary, but the most common day of closure seems to be Monday. You're currently scheduled to be in Florence on a Monday. I believe both the Uffizi and the Accademia are closed on Monday.

The city of York is not a drive through. You won't even drive within the city walls of York. You would need to find a carpark and head to the town. Many find it to be the highlight of their English adventure. In 2001, our family (49, 43, 17, 14, 11) visited York for a couple of days. This past fall, we returned with our daughter (33) as her "must see again" (new museums and repeats, including walking the city walls). We still did not have enough time as we were headed to Scotland. We were not able to add Hadrian's wall this trip.

I suggest deciding if you want to focus on the Cotswolds and Stratford-UA, or go north. I don't think it is worth it to spend the money (train or car) for one night in the north. Find another location, closer to London, to see ancient walls or stones---they are all over the island and more rewarding to see them in the landscape minus hordes of tourists.

It appears you will sleep in London 22 May; sightsee in London 23 & 24 & 25 (please skip Dover this time).

Why not take a train to/between Stratford Upon Avon and the Cotswolds, and Warwick Castle (touristy but fun for kids---how old are yours?). In 2001, we trained to in Moreton-in Marsh, stayed a night or 2. After walking in MinM, our kids hunkered down for an evening with take away and tv, and my husband and I walked down the street to a little restaurant. The next morning, the kids slept in while my husband and I took a bus to Chipping Campden to visit the little shops and market square. Then we trained to Warwick Castle before heading to Wales.

I'm a little risk adverse when it comes to public transportation when schedules are set. I probably would want to stay in London the night before heading back to Paris. Use the morning to catch the London experience you didn't fit in earlier.

Must-sees for your daughter (all of you!) in Paris: Musee Rodin and Musee d'Orsay. Jardin du Luxembourg should be beautiful in May. We were there in Sept, and I enjoyed it. Take a picnic lunch.

Just did a quick search and found this. It looks interesting to me.

https://www.rollrightstones.co.uk/visit/visiting-the-stones

It takes quite awhile by bus from Moreton-in-Marsh but only 11 miinutes by taxi. You could taxi there, have a picnic and taxi back, or take a bus back to see the countryside.

You will have a great time making memories no matter what you do.

Good piece of advice you'll see repeated in this forum: PACK LIGHT!!

Too little ‘bang for the buck’ ( do Canadians use that expression ? ) to go all the way to Hadrian’s Wall.

I certainly would use a car in England outside of London. In addition to Stonehenge, consider Avebury.

Getting a ticket in Italy for being in a ZTL zone or speeding just 1km over the speed limit is incredibly expensive. That car can cost you. There are cameras everywhere in Italy, every so many feet, so one violation can be recorded several times by different cameras, and you will receive a separate fine for each camera click. You won't receive the ticket at the time, you'll receive them once home, several months later, several hundreds of dollars, possibly.
Good luck!

https://search.ricksteves.com/?button=&date_range=2y&filter=Travel+Forum&query=Italy+traffic+ticket&utf8=%E2%9C%93

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I totally agree that a car will be a burden rather than a help in most
cases.

Unless driving through Europe is a dream of yours. Then perfect.

Mr E, so true! Driving can be fun! Ah, there is no wrong way except maybe putting ketchup on a bratwurst....

I get a little amused when people are corrected when not doing something the way another would. But to be helpful the issues should be pointed out.

May 21 - drive through Bologna to Venice 3 hrs - drop off car at Venice airport

If I understand correctly you will departing Florence for this leg of the trip. Unsure if "drive through Bologna" means exactly that or if you intend to stop and visit. If mean literally, google maps shows a typical travel time of 2 hr 30min to 3 hr 40m travel time.
By the time you refuel the car before drop off and then get from the airport to Venice, you will likely have spent 5+ hrs. The good news is that by the time you get to your hotel/lodging it should be check in time so you can drop your bags and get your gondola ride and dinner. The next morning you will need to be early risers to spend some time wandering around before getting back to the airport. As you will be exiting the Schengen zone, you will need the "longer" processing time of passport control, rather than just security to get to the gate.

If you are satisfied with this, then do it. Just be aware in this instance you appear to have an optimistic estimate of what your travel time will be.

I did not look at your other driving trips/transfers, but am left to wonder how much 'search for parking' time you factored in and how long it will take to get from the parking location to what is the point of the stop.

If you have only 3 nights to split between Florence and Venice, I vote for 2 nights in Florence.

Happy travels

In my opinion, one day in Venice is ample. Certainly I'd try to dissuade you from staying longer in Venice at the expense of time in Florence.

We have driven to Pompeii twice: once from Rome and once from Cortona (southern Tuscany) on our way to Sorrento. Super easy AND easy to park. Just google map your route before you leave and understand your payment options (we needed to pay to park in Euros, not by CC the most recent time.) I will say, though, I would add another night on to Amalfi Coast (partial to Sorrento, where it is easy to drop off rental cars.) It is a beautiful place. It's too bad you can't shave off a night or 2 from Paris and add to Venice/Amalfi. As for Pisa, it's a bit out of the way and will add at least another 2hrs of driving on an already 5hr drive day. I'd save for another visit when you could also visit Cinque Terre.
You will want to add more time on your drive back in to London to catch Eurostar (Kings Cross Station/St. Pancras) so you might consider dropping Stonehenge so you allow for traffic and rental car drop off time.
You will see all the highlights for sure and it's certain to be a fun and memoriable trip!

hey hey melg34
i went dizzy looking at your itinerary. too much traveling & driving. too many travelers on their first trip want to see so much in different countries and don't take time into considering how long train, driving with returning cars and going through passport/customs, finding your way around, backtracking. should have did a multi-city flight (fly into one city and out of another)
this would cause lots of stress, tIred with grumpiness. it's your trip and hoping all goes well.
don't forget to get your IDP (AAA.com/IDP), international driving permit. get one for all drivers, $25/two passport size photos at AAA, good for a year. have euros (small bills 5E, 10E, & 20E) on your person along with small coins (no canadian dollars). enjoy
aloha

I'll add to the chat warnings about speeding tickets.

My husband barely and rarely goes above the speed limit in the US. He has driven similarly in UK, Ireland, and Germany, yet he managed to get a speeding ticket last fall in Uk, and previously in Germany--the only times I remember that he's been ticketed. (Unfortunately, I hold the record for our family---it's a good thing I haven't driven internationally).

Just another comment about rental vehicles:
It's advised never to leave anything in the car that you can't afford to lose if you are sightseeing along the way. As well, your luggage should be stored completely out of sight. Break-in of/theft from rental vehicles is a possibility. Heck, we don't leave anything valuable or our bags in the car during some of our road trips here in the US.

And just to support some of the comments above:
Pompeii: if your son is a budding palaeontologist, he won't find what he's looking for at Pompeii. It's a fascinating capture of how people lived in affluent coastal city several thousand years ago but no dinosaurs. In fact, if there's no interest in what Pompeii does have to offer and only 1 night to give the region, I'd skip it entirely and add that night to something else. There are excavated ruins in Rome/much closer to it if you want to see some.

Florence is a must for our artist daughter

Then she'll be spoiled for choice! This "Cradle of the Italian Renaissance" is just stuffed with valuable and interesting artwork!

Stay in florence 2 nights and explore Tuscany countryside (see Pisa)

This gives you just one full day for Florence: no time for anything else. As well, May 20th is a Monday when practically all Italian State Museums are closed. It doesn't mean that there is nothing to see on that day but if daughter has her heart set on, say, Michelangelo's "David" at the Accademia, it's not going to happen. To give your future artist the time this city deserves plus see some countryside, I'd add the day subtracted from Pompeii/Amalfi Coast.

You could explore some of Florence after arrival from Rome (90 minutes away by fast train) on Sat. the 18th and Sunday the 19th, then rent a car for a day or book a tour to explore the Tuscan countryside on Monday the 20th and make everyone happy.

Paris Disney: as above, how old are your children? If not all THAT young, and if they've been to Disney in the US, you might rethink this one? But if they have their hearts set on it, then OK.