First time to Paris and a bit concerned!

We saw them outside of Notre Dame and around the Eiffel Tower. You will know they are gypsies because they bought their outfits from GypsiesRUs. They'll try to get you to read something, but you just give them a disdainful look and a firm NO and they'll move on. Seems like once you wave one of them away, they all stay away from you. We took their picture by pretending to take pics of each other while really taking it of them. As long as you are aware of them (and heed all money-belt tips) the biggest hazard is getting Cher's song "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves" stuck in your head.

Evelyn-
A friend of ours had this happen to her. She had travelled to Paris on several occasions and once she had a woman come up to her (our friend was wearing a fanny pack) and start waving her hands in front of her asking for information. When our friend responded, in French, to leave her alone; our friend reached down to her fanny pack to find it unzipped and her documents halfway out. This was about 8 - 10 years ago.

Don't worry - I've spent time in Paris and haven't had a problem. Be smart, use your money belt (not a fanny pack for Heaven's sake!) and if your gut tells you something - pay attention to it! You won't spend time second-guessing yourself later.

Toughnen up,, don't allow anyone to intimidate you , beggers like to prey on timid looking folks. Imagine you are from the toughest neighborhood in New York city, put on the " p*ss off I'm far too busy to talk to you" face, and you are much much less likely to be targeted.

I have been to Paris many times, and only been approached twice by women asking me if I " speak english?" they get a stern 'Non" and I do NOT even stop walking. Ignore them completely, they will move on to find a compliant person who it too afraid to " seem rude" .

I have never felt any danger or fear. If you are the least bit nervous just say " Police" loudly and they will scurry away in a wink.

Don't be nervous, Paris is very safe, and I have never felt threatned, I have visited alone( middle aged woman) and alone with my child( 14 yr old son) and with a female friend, and this July with my 12 yr old daughter. Paris is a great city.

Evelyn: Don't worry about it. Being aware is half the battle. They are totally recognizable, almost comically so. The only gypsies I have personally encountered were sitting down and silently begging, and you likely will see plenty of those, especially near churches. Always wear your money belt and if you carry a purse, keep it close to you if you see gypsies. Stay alert -- but not to the point of paranoia -- and have a terrific time in Paris!

When I was in Paris we had two encounters with gypsies...

The first was while we were at a picture booth getting pics for a Metro pass. My wife and her friend were distracted while messing with the booth while myself and our friend's husband and I stood nearby. There were two gypsy males in the corridor and one of them was checking us out. He eventually walked up right behind my wife's friend who was looking inside the booth while my wife was having her picture taken.

The man pretended to be looking at his hair in the mirror on the booth but he was obviously checking out the situation. I never took my eyes off of him and when he glanced at me I casually pulled down my lower eyelid, which is the European way of saying "I am keeping my eye on you!" He apparently decided that we weren't easy marks after all and both men left.

The second time we were approached by two males. I used my large rainbow umbrella like a sword and said "Non!" twice. Stay away from the crazy American!

There are excellent tips about how to avoid becoming a victim in "Europe Through The Back Door." Stay aware of your surroundings; don't let yourself become distracted. If you have to look at a map or dig through a bag, get against a wall and have your partner be the "lookout" while you do your business. Ditto when using an ATM. If you become tired and the Metro is crowded take a taxi; you can relax and enjoy the Paris scenery and it is worth every Euro...

Perhaps the best advice I can offer is to minimize your time at typical tourist spots because that is where you will be at the greatest risk. The most delightful and authentic travel experiences are to be found in neighborhoods and other locations where there may not even be other tourists and Paris has a zillion nooks and crannies that fit that description.

Have a good trip and don't worry!

Frank,

I said not to touch them because they are dangerous people, they might push you back, use knives etc.
As I said I know them very well.
They don't deserve anyone to be polite with them, just I wanted to warn people here about their behaviour.

Karen replied "Gysies R Us". That's so funny. I encountered them last year in front of Notre Dame Cathedral. They will try and hand you a note to read. DON'T TAKE THE NOTE. Then they'll have your attention. JUST IGNORE THEM AND YOU'LL HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL. They are harmless. They usually approach you one on one and are young girls.

To reinforce what the other posters have said, keep your wits about you, wear a money belt and don't be afraid to say "No" loudly.

I have travelled twice to Paris by myself once as a 19 year old and once as a 23 year old and didn't have any problems.

Look confident and like you know where you are going.

Honestly don't worry about it. Just have an amazing time with your husband.

Bon Voyage!

Evelyn one thing they may try is waving a poster or paper in front of you (or husband) while the others try to poke around your pockets.

Just use your voice and shout "NO!" and keep walking.

Check out this site:

http://www.jones.tc/barna/scams.html

It talks about street scams in Barcelona. The stories are applicable to any European tourist destination. This gives you an idea what to watch out for.

Sometimes you will be surrounded by Gypsies, other times it will be a group of kids, more often it's a couple of people working together.

The cure is always the same. Don't exude wealth, wear comfortable casual clothes and little to no jewelry. Don't let yourself become overburdoned, keep your load down to one bag only and keep it in your sight and control at all times. Use a moneybelt, don't leave anything you can't afford to lose in your pocket.

Thieves target the richest and easiest targets. Presenting yourself as a rich and overburdened tourist makes you the obvious choice for all the scams.

Don't ruin your vacation worrying. Common sense precautions work in almost every case and keep you from losing something important in the other cases.

I never saw it as a problem in Paris. It seemed like a bigger deal in Rome. Generally I wouldn't make eye contact and would keep moving that worked best. I had one sit across from me in the train once I stared at him until he left-thinking I was a "crazy American."

As long as you don't look like the typical easy mark (shiny white sneakers, fanny pack, and camera around the neck, "I Love the USA" shirt) you'll be fine.

Enjoy.

Oh Darn it, Eric.. where's your sense of Patriotism?? Laugh.

Evelyn, just act confident, and keep your wits about you. Don't flash your money, and wear your money belt.

The best way is to shout something to them, in English is fine. Also make a gesture with your hand like you would push them away, but don't touch them.
These gypsies are from Eastern Europe and they might not speak French, so don't worry about saying something in another language.
DO NOT engage in any discussion with them or try to help them. They are very skillful in pickpocketing.
I've never had any problems with them, but I know very well how they are.
I saw them in front of Sacre Coeur and Madame Pompidou center.

Bea, not sure why you say, "Don't touch them." If they are close enough to put a paper in my face, I will push them away and I have. Being polite with these folks does not gain you any points. Our contact with gypsies has been very limited -- twice in about 300 days of travel. But both times I was partial at fault for attracting attention to myself. Once it was a pack of kids, and I just ran away for a quarter block or so. The other time suddenly found a newspaper under my nose and felt a light tap on a front pocket as I was surrounded by several people. I instantly flung up both of my arms knocking her arms away, sent the paper flying, and knocked her backwards, and then stiff arm the person my left knocking her down on the my way out of the circle. My sense is that you have to be aggressive, noisy, and get the h out of there.

I had more of a problem with the guys selling stuff who hang out just as your leaving the elevator from going up the eiffle tower...on the path to Versailles, ect. They will try and shove something into your hand and then yell at you and try to make you pay for it.

What worked best for me was keeping my fists clenched at my sides and saying NO!!! Okay, sometimes I had to YELL no for them to go away. Try not to make eye contact, don't engage with them, and don't let them intimidate you and you'll be fine. I know it's scary thing to think about but by the time you get back you'll be like Pshh... I worried about that?!

A different Frank here...

Sorry, Bea, someone gave you bad information. They are not armed. If they were, the police would be able to pounce on them with no problem. Begging is not a crime. Carrying a weapon is.

In Rome, a Carbinieri (police officer) once told me that it was okay to get physical with them if necessary. Sometimes it is the only way when surrounded. He said no police officer would ever arrest me. Just the opposite. I've seen cops take they gypsies aside and beat the hell out of them. Now that was Rome, not Paris.

The best thing to do if you see them coming forward is to keep moving. If they try to gang up on you, move forcibly away, swing your arms,--whatever it takes.

The other scam to watch out for in Paris are the bracelet guys near Sacre Couer. They'll try to put a bracelet on you then demand money. Deal with them the same way.....say no and keep walking.

For the other Frank,

I don't believe carring a knife in Europe is illegal.
They keep their knives under their clothes, and they might use it. Speaking of Rome, last year I believe, there was an incident between Romanian gypsies somewhere by a subway station .They actually shot each other because of some money issues. So gypsies are capable of these things.
There are so many problems with gypsies in Paris and Rome that I am not sure the police can move quickly enough to handle everything in time. I read/ watch European news web sites and TV stations pretty often and kind of know what's going on.
Better safe than sorry.

So, let me ask you Bea, what would you do if they surrounded you and didn't move when you "waved them away?' Would you just stand there and let them take what they wanted afraid that if you moved they might "knife" you, or would you push your way passed to get away from them?

I'm not judging, I'd really like to know how people would handle that situation.

It happened to me. A paper was thrust in front of me. I took both arms and swung backwards. It knocked the kid picking my pocket--who I couldn't see--off balance. I then pushed the paper away and marched forward. I wasn't bothered again nor did I lose anything.

The crime you mentioned was gypsy versus gypsy. Not against a tourist. If it was, the police would be out in force. Just watch what happens when the police patrol a tourist area where the gypsies are working. They scatter.

The only violent crime I worry about in Western Europe is terrorism. And I don't really worry about that.

Bea, if you know the gypsies well then you know they are not armed and they will not physically attack you. They are pickpockets and scam artists. They are primarily interested in distracting you so that someone (the kids or the partner) can work your pockets over. That is the purpose of the baby, the newspaper, etc. The best defense is a lot of noise, swing your arms so no one gets close and move out at a rapid pace. Once they know they cannot get close to you they will leave your alone. I am not encouraging anyone to intentionally strike anyone but if you push or make contact in your defense -- that is fine.

I am not sure I fully agree with not making eye contact. I believe making the right kind of eye contact can be useful. I make eye contact so that they know that I know they are there. I try to make sure that my facial expression along with the eye contact says leave me alone. It works for me but you may not be comfortable with making similar eye contact.

Bea, I got to agree with Frank. If someone were trying to frisk me (to get their hands on my goodies), I'd be more incline to shove and run, than to have them touch me, regardless if they are armed or not. Now, if they ARE armed, I'd definitely will push and run.

Being said that... Evelyn, chances are you won't have to worry about getting mauled. Just avoid them and walk briskly way.

I too had an experience with gypeis in paris at the train station coming back from Versailles. The cars were pretty empty as I got on, but 2 girls began to crowd me. I looked down and sure enough her hand was reaching for my bag (across the front of me). I instinctively stepped back, stared her in the face and as she tried to leave stepped in front to block her and stare her down. They couldn't get off the train fast enough! Other than that we weren't bothered at all. We saw a lot of them at the tourist sites, but they're pretty easy to recognize and steer clear of. Relax and have a great time -- you'll love it.

I have to say I find this thread disturbing. Gypsies are an ancient minority in Europe that have been persecuted through the years. They were herded into concentration camps by the Nazis. The LA Times is carrying a story today that the right wing Italian government is burning their camps:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/europe/la-fg-right24-2008may24,0,4016269.story

Yes, some of "them" pickpocket. How courteous that they dress for it so you can see them across the square and not worry about it. Much more petty crime comes from well-dressed people in the Metro or Eiffel Tower line. More comes from street kids on motor scooters. I'm not defending anyone who commits crime but some of the tone of the discussion here is excessive.

I have to agree with Doug. And the question and answers are a total over-reaction to this 'threat'. If you see anyone that is an obvious scam artist, find it entertaining. And you are more likely than not to run across no obvious scam and/or pickpocket. Paris is a wonderful city, if you are seeing Paris, you won't be wasting time worrying. Keep you money like you would traveling to any US city as a tourist. Enjoy one of the great cities of the world!

Doug, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have been a victim of a gypsie pickpocket. We got the poster in the face with the swarm of kids touching my pockets, my dad's pockets, etc.

So forgive those of us who are a bit harsh for the Gypsies.

Evelyn
Besides gypsys, you need to watch for children. Friends of mine were in southern France last year on a canal cruise. When they stopped in Bordeaux, a group of children approached her, distracted her and she discovered later that her money and passport were stolen. Don't bring a purse. Money belts are your safest bet. I have a camera bag with a side zipper and I put my lipstick and hair pic, sunblock in it. My camera is an old kodak so I don't have to worry about charging batteries and if it gets stolen I won't lose any sleep over it. Paris is awesome. Have a great time. Do a lot of walking, that is the best way to discover the city. Amy, Stow, OH

Doug, I don't think myself or anyone else meant to single out gypsies, but Evelyn specifically asked about gypsies in her post. Of course, I also saw plenty of other well dressed people, etc that you mention, in the Metro & elsewhere that were clearly "casing" people as well. I also kept my eye on them. The point is to be aware of your surroundings at all times whether you are in Paris, New York or wherever. It really is no different and there is no need to be anymore worried than you would in any other big city.

This is all very interesting...i go into the city (Paris) several times a month, looking like a middle aged anybody...hardly "Parisienne" or t shirt flip flop tourist...and never had the Gypsy Attack despite going into "tourist territory"...I think you're scaring yourselves...My advice is let the female of the group carry the money in her purse, bandolier-style, skip the money belts and what do they call them???..those belts around the waist??..bananas?/tummy bags?...Plus , obviously, no wallets in the pockets!!!...My husband kept some euros in his pocket, in case we separated and he wanted to buy a beer (when we were recently in Rome)...he called it the "pickepocket/tourist tax)...he always came home, cash intact, except for the beer expense.
.................and this is no big deal, but that's the Centre Pompidou...named after the President, art collector, husband of Madame Pompidou, who recently died...she would be thrilled to think the museum had been dedicated to her as well.....

Doug I understand your point, but, you also need to realize a few facts.

Gypsies( who are actually the Roma people) have this reputation as petty thieves, beggers, and pickpockets for a reason.
They need to eat.
And, yes, there is racism against them in Paris, and so, no, most of them do not have jobs, as no one will give them jobs.
Many( most) of them are very marginalized, prevented from working by either lack of skills( very few are even remotely well educated, and I mean even a basic 12 yr completion) of by basic prejudice. Their nomadic lifestyle means the kids are usaully not enrolled in schools. This of course keeps the cycle of poverty alive and well. Their society is unfortunately not very well organized, so they seem to have no one to " fight for their rights" and frankly seem to prefer outsiders to leave them alone.
They have seemed to develope a survival mode of living that does in fact involve on preying on others, either by begging , or stealing.

cont.

Everyone I hope realizes that there are EXCEPTIONS, there are Roma who have jobs and homes, but you must take off rose colored glasses and realize THOSE Roma are in the minority, and have mostly likely had to work really hard to overcome disadvantages that are thrust upon them at birth. A people who have no nation , but nomads in this world.
The French government may have programs to help them, I really do not know,, I know in Canada we have a nation of people who DO have a country, but we have also somehow over the centuries marginalized them, and it has only been the last 50 years or so that we are developing programs to right some of the wrongs.

So, while it is true the Romas have a bad rap, it unfortunatley not undeserved. They do survive however they can, they are not evil, but they have to feed their kids too. Watch out for them, this is often how them make their living , and they are pretty darn good at it.

Side note, NOT all pickpockets are Roma, also watch
cont.

well dressed and well spoken.
A lady on one of my other travel forums had her and her daughters bags pickpocketed while in a nice area , and window shopping, they noted ( sort of after the fact) a nice looking well dressed woman window shopping right beside them as they gazed in some designer store windows, they then discovered moments later their " lighter " purses.. yes, the stylish "Parisien" woman had been able to get close enough to them to pickpocket them.

Best advice, don't let anyone in your personal space bubble, little kids or fancy ladies included! LOL

Pat, I don't speak from wearing "rose-colored glasses." I object to some of the rhetoric on this post that dehumanizes the Roma. They are an ostracized, persecuted minority. Italy is attempting to herd them across its borders as we speak.

I don't excuse petty thievery. But, if you can't spot them a block away, you have bigger issues. As for others who protest that it's OK to hit little Gypsy kids because they know someone who has been pickpocketed - check your ethics and wear a moneybelt!

Rick Steves at one of his travel classes, had a slide show. One of them had a woman holding a little baby in her arms. It turned out that a hidden sling was holding the baby, so the mother can have her hands free to pick pocket. She could even ask you to help her out and hold something for her, when she is picking your pocket.
If you know what to watch out for, then you should be safe and have a trip of a lifetime!

Doug, I don't think anyone here walks up to a little kid and hits him for no reason.

However, if I should find one with his hand in my pocket, yes, I will smack him away. Or should I just let him have whatever is in my pocket thinking..."Oh, poor child, your life is one of misery, please help yourself to what I have in my pocket. And now your friends are surrounding me as well...I hope they share in the loot. For you see, my ethics don't allow me to hit a little child...even if that child is a criminal who is stealing from me. You see, little one, I'm wearing a moneybelt so you can't have everything. Perhaps you'd like to go through by daybag as well. Oh, some of your friends already are. Feel free, I can't phpysically stop you because that would be wrong. Afterall, as a rich, materialistic American, I can afford to lose a few Euros, or perhaps my camera, or my cell phone."

Get real. Anyone with their hand in my pocket, kid, adult, gypsy, anyone, is going to get "smacked."

By the time Evelyn reads this she and her husband will be happily on their way to Paris...and odds are they won't have any problems...unless they spend all the time looking at the city thru their digital camera...and not at what's going on around them.
...This "discussion" still amuses me...Seems that only Americans talk about "Romas"...just part of life in France...