First time to Europe need advice!!!

I am sorry, Katherine. I will be accused of being condescending or even rude but what you are asking/or suggesting is crazy. If you just sleep in train stations between trains you couldn't do it and the cost would be enormous. Read my response to your other question. You need to get a serious handle on what is close to real by doing the homework. Read, read, read,,,,,, You have no sense of distances or times. This is not Epcot Center. Seeing five or six place well in a 20 days is a challenge. You are suggesting 18 places in 18 days - cannot be done. You need a far more realistic plan before any can offer serious comments.

It wasn't rude at all! I've never been before and have been doing research but that is why I posted on here so I could get feedback.A friend put that itinerary together for me who has travelled around Europe. I appreciate your honesty! I'll probably post soon with another question. Thanks for your help.

Hi Katherine. With 20 days in Europe, I would stay in two countries. At most, three. You could visit Amsterdam and France; London and France; France and Spain; France and Italy; etc. Every time you change cities (and countries), you'll lose time and money. Based on your UK question, it sounds like you need to do research to see what you'd like to do in each city you'll visit. Once you make a list of activities in each city, you'll get a better idea of how long to stay in each city or region.

Katherine, Before getting too much into Itinerary planning, I would highly recommend that you read Europe Through The Back Door. That provides an enormous amount of good information on things like Itinerary planning, Rail skills, money, lodgings, etc. It's especially useful for first time travellers to Europe. Use the country-specific Guidebooks to plan sightseeing and lodgings in each city. As the others have mentioned, the Itinerary you've proposed is FAR too ambitious, and perhaps not even possible for such a very short time frame. Keep in mind that you'll lose the first and last days in travel times (you'll arrive in Europe the day AFTER you leave the U.S. and the last day will be spent on the flight home). In order to make this more realistic, you're going to have to reduce the number of destinations substantially. The Itinerary you listed has FAR too many location changes. Each time you move to a different city, you'll generally require about half a day (in some cases you'll need more time). To begin with, I'd skip Milan, Pisa, Croatia & Budapest (more transportation time and cost). If you could provide a list of perhaps the five or six places you most want to visit, I'm sure the group here would be able to provide you with lots of good suggestions. Keep in mind one of Rick's favourite expressions, "Assume you will return". For travel in May, you'll need to get some planning done quickly! If you haven't bought your air tickets yet, I would highly recommend using "open jaw" flights. Good luck!

Sixteen locations in twenty days? Actually, you only have 18 full days (subtraction arrival and departure days). You really need to prioritize and cut back. It's understandable that you want to see "everything", but it's just not possible. Instead of seeing everything, you will see nothing, and do nothing but move from place to place. For your first trip, start smaller. Once you get a good first experience under your belt, you can branch out into another area.

Katherine, First; the way you list destinations is confusing to read. This is easier (with nights in parenthesis); London (3)
Amsterdam (3), etc, etc. Second; you are essentially trying to see a bit of everything in Europe in three weeks and that makes no more sense than trying to see a bit of everything in the USA in three weeks. What would you recommend to someone from France who asked you for advice on how to see the USA in three weeks? Get a map of Europe and divide it up into at least four roughly equal sections. Now choose which ONE of those four sections you would prefer to visit. Now start looking into where you would want to go within that section. While preparing that list, consider the possibility of staying in no location for just one night - a 2-night minimum. In the largest cities, give yourself a 4-night minumum (which is really just three days). Consider every transition, no matter how far apart and no matter what the mode of transportation, to consume a 1/2 day minimum and leave you unenthusiastic for high-energy sightseeing on the other half of that day. Your goal should be to have a great experience and give you the motivation to return. Try to see everything at once and you will make yourself miserable. Once you have done all that, send me a private message (see the link below my name). I love helping people with itineraries and transport. Finally; That friend who gave you travel advice.....never ask them a travel question again. :)

Katherine, I really applaud your enthusiasm but I must agree with the other posters that your initial wish list is far too ambitious. These places you mention are all brilliant, so keep them on your bucket list. I agree (once again) with Ken get Europe Through the Back Door and read it. Watch Rick's shows on Hulu. Maybe, more effectively time-wise, study the tour section of this web site. Examine the various itineraries presented and see which ones interest you the most, right now. Notice that Rick Steves' longest tour, The "Best of Europe" is 21 days and doesn't cover anywhere near the proposed territory you have listed. And his tours move pretty fast (you won't want to move any faster) and you no doubt won't be as efficient on your first trip. Plan to returning again, and you'll enjoy this trip a lot more. Edit this and I'll be happy to offer any suggestions I can, as will the rest of the crew here.

Katherine, While I would also highly recommend visiting London, you may want to first do a bit of checking on the Net regarding accommodation rates. The Olympics will be taking place in late July, and it's possible that rates have already started to increase. The authorities always state that they won't tolerate "price gouging" during the Olympics, but as I recall from the Vancouver experience, it does happen. It comes down to a "supply & demand" situation. I haven't checked the rates recently, but perhaps Nigel or other UK members can pass along any information they've heard on that topic. Cheers!

Yes, my husband and I did France (Paris,Strasbourg), Germany (Augsburg,Munich), Austria (Salzburg), Italy (Venice,Milan/Como), Switzerland (Spiez/Murren, Bern, Zurich) and UK (London, Portsmouth - cuz my sis lives there) in 23 days...because my crazy husband wanted to see so much - I told him it was too much, and after getting home, he admitted I was right - not enough time to see things - and a lot of train travel - it really is better to spend 3-4 days in bigger cities (really, more is better) like Rome, Florence, London, Paris... Either do the 1st half - London thru France, or the 2nd half Spain thru Budapest, but even there, you'd really be better off just doing Spain/Italy...have fun planning!

As other travelers have noted far too much for a 20 day visit. Congratulate you for posting on the helpline but you need to take the time to read Rick's Europe Through the Backdoor. It's invaluable and will assist you in defining a practical first time visit. Is art your passion? History? Shopping? Food? Why did you choose the cities and countries listed? Are friends there? Personally, for a first time European traveler I'd fly into London (yes, it's expensive but so very enjoyable) spend at least 4 days there and then move onto wherever else you decide to go. Suggesting London because it's a cosmopolitan city, language will be familiar, loads to see and do (most museums are free) and it's a major transportation hub for Europe. Trains or cheap flights are accessible. You could also choose one country to explore. Fly into Rome and fly home from Milan having experienced, Rome, Sicily, Tuscany, Sienna, Florence, Milan, and Venice. Once you've researched what you truly WANT to see in Europe please re post. We'll be happy to help you further refine you first trip to the Continent.

Rather than just say how bonkers the first list is I will hope to see how much time the list should reasonably take first timer; perhaps that will help perspective: Start in London (4) London to Amsterdam (3+1 travel=4) Amsterdam to Paris (you missed Bruges and Brussels and Ghent 6) Paris to Loire Valley (3) Loire Valley to Bordeaux (3) Bordeaux to San Sebastian/Bilbao, Spain (5) San Sebastian/Bilbao, Spain to Madrid (5) Madrid to Valencia (2) Valencia to Barcelona (2+1=3) Barcelona to Milan (what no southern France? 3+3=6) Milan to Pisa (0.1+1=1) Pisa to Florence (4) Florence to Rome (4) Rome to Venice (3+1=4) Venice to Croatia (what, the whole country? 5) Croatia to Budapest (3+2=5)
Budapest back home (last day devoted to flying) So that's 65 days, so that's 3 and a quarter times as long... assuming you didn't die of exhaustion on the way...

Katherine,
At the risk of being redundant, I'm going to add my 2-cents. For a first time visit to Europe just the planning can be daunting, so much you want to see, but limited time to see it. To get some perspective, think of Europe as the eastern half of the US (everything east of the Mississippi). Now, say you have 3 weeks and want to see all of the hot spots. You want to visit New York, Chicago, New Orleans, Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Boston, etc. etc.. Could it be done? No. With 3 weeks you'd maybe go to Boston, New York, Washington DC and Philadelphia - and that would be just scratching the surface of each when you factor in travel time. I know you're overwhelmed but as the others have said: research, research, research. Read books, use the internet, and narrow down your 'must see' places to from 2-4 and really enjoy them. Good luck.

as others have posted it's way too much for 20 days. I know you want to see a lot but part of the fun of Europe is to have time to sit in a cafe and chill and have time to take it all in. You dont' want to spend all your time in airports and train stations. You need to decide which places are most important to you and make logistical sense in terms on routing, trains..
have you already booked your flight?

Here's a technique I use to budget time in a destination. How many must see items are there for you to visit? Don't plan more than two major sights per travel day. If you have extra time to pick up another minor sight, great - but don't plan on it. Let's pick London. Maybe, after reading guidebooks, you find there are six major sights you really want to visit. For me that would equate to three full days. Three full days means four nights. You arrive the morning of day one - by the time you make it downtown and get settled, it's lunchtime. You may have time to pick up one sight on day one. You will be jet lagged at least through your first night, so don't plan anything you can't do while semi-comatose. If you want to stay awake, you probably need to keep moving. After night four, you have had a chance to visit the things you wanted to see. You get up in the morning, check out of your hotel, eat breakfast and head for your second destination. Depending on how far it is, you have probably spent most of the day getting there - what I call a travel day. Newbies often forget to account for travel time in their plans. Work your way through your itinerary one stop at a time to get a realistic picture what you have time for.

Katherine,
If you try to do this it will not be fun. Shorten the trip down to a few places and enjoy. Ask some of your traveling friends where they would go in a short tour.

I have a total of 22 days on the ground,, and I can't even imagine seeing so many places ,, in fact, it seems impossible when you consider you actually will be using time to travel from place to place. My minimums for visits would be Paris-4-5 days London-4-5 days Rome-4-5 days Amsterdam-2 days Venice- 2 days Pisa,, seriously, skip it,, its worth 1/2hour to see tower. Loire Valley-2-3 days( assuming you want to visit various chateaus
Florence-2 days I haven't done eastern Europe so no idea. But I wouldn't schedule less then 2 nights, three days, in any place. Seems you do have two seperate trips here. Eastern and Western Europe.

Hi, As others have pointed out and recommended, I heartily recommend also omitting a few places. If this itinerary were for a trip of 6-8 weeks, then I would say leave it as it is. But for a duration not even having 3 whole weeks, ie., 21 days, logistically, I don't recommend it at all as a first timer. In that sense Rome, Croatia, and Budapest should be dropped. I've done a three week trip (solo) France (Paris, Reims, Metz), Belgium (Brugge, Waterloo, Brussels), and W.Germany (Berlin, Hannover, Detmold, Frankfurt) and don't find it fully enjoyable because it's too rushed, too incomplete, esp., when you hit all the different train stations, eg., when you arrive from Amsterdam and depart for the Loire area, that involves two different train stations in Paris. How do you plan to get from London-Amsterdam? Unless there is a specific reason for picking out a certain city, (and it's all a matter of priorities), then save it for next time. Does the priority outweigh zipping around on the train, which is someting I don't mind, but keep in mind you have just under 3 weeks? That, in itself, could be a taxing experience not only as first trip experience but also with your traveling mates.

Hi Pick a big city to fly to and a big city to fly out of eg. paris and rome. SLOWLY wend your way from one to the other. You can always come back!
S