First time to Europe is our schedule too full?

My wife Barb wrote the question I just posted it.So please feal free to answer to either one of us.
Thanks

First, congratulations on 30 years together. That, in itself is an accomplishment.

Now to Europe. There are many ways to answer your question...But I need to ask some:

When you say backpacking, do you mean camping out and walking trails or do you mean packing light and using a convertible bag like the one RS uses? Two distinctly different types of travel.

Do you plan to return to Europe in years to come, or is this the one big trip you think you'll be able to make? If this is the only one, then your itinerary is fine. You will get a good taste of Europe. Personally, I would cut out Germany and replace it with Switzerland.

If this is the first of many trips, then I agree with Isailtheseas that you might be doing too much. Cut out Germany and spend the extra time in FRance and Italy.

Remember guide books, like Rick's, are guides, not gospels of what you must do. Look at others. Do the things you want to do, not what someone else suggests.

Bill and Barb -
Congrats on your anniversary! Glad you're celebrating in Europe.

I can't comment on Germany or Italy as I've never been.
I will say that I would think that you're not spending enough time in each place.

Paris in 2 days? Not likely. Even if you're taking the early AM Chunnel to Paris, you won't be arriving until late morning/early afternoon giving you 1.5 days in Paris. No way, no how could I see the sights in that fantastic city in that short a period of time. (And I can cram a lot in - trust me!)

London in 2.5 days? Nope.

Try to fit one more full day in London and Paris - there is sooo much to see and do in both of these cities, don't shortchange yourselves.

Europe isn't going anywhere. You will be back. Sooner than you think.

Don't forget - you asked for our opinions, you'll get them - just don't be surprised at the brutal honesty!

Rarely does anyone here propose an itinerary that begins with 2 days in London and then 1 and 1/2 days in Paris--that's too fast for two of the most interesting cities on the planet. It can physically be done, and I think we understand why it's tempting on a first trip to want to "see it all." But I wonder if something important is lost in such a rushed experience, that is not made up for by "getting an overview of everything"? It's your trip and you get to discover the answer to that question. My hope is that you have the kind of trip you are hoping for.

I think it would be a shame to cut out Germany!! It's such a wonderful country, and not to be missed.
However, if you think you are doing to much, I agree with the advice that others have told you, and most likely you will be back in Europe.
I personally don't think you are doing too much, if you are both healthy. I'm middle aged, and run around Europe like crazy and hold up very well. So if you both are in good health with energy to burn, go for it.
Your plan will give you a taste of each country you are visiting. I'm sure you will be back to re visit some countries plus some countries you didn't get a chance to go to yet.
To the next thirty years!!!

Hi again...you said something interesting that many did not pick up on...."returning to Europe may not be an option."

If so, then I can understand your wanting to see as much as possible. (Lots of people here go every year so they choose one of two places and do them in detail.)

May I suggest you look into a tour. Since you're willing to travel light, perhaps an RS 21-day tour of Europe. You'll be able to see more because so much is being done for you. It covers just about everything you want to see plus some. And your tour director will help you to maximize your time and see things not inluded.

You can then add London either before or after for a few days.

Well you couldn't have chosen worse days to spend in Paris.
The major museums like the Orsay and Lourve are closed either mondays or tuesdays. Which means you may miss seeing them or you may find other attractions busier because of closings.

Paris deserves at least 3 or 4 days.
Age has nothing to do with it, I think you are cramming a wee bit too much in.
Either cut something out( I won't comment on what) or arrange to stay another week in Europe. This is a special trip, I think I would make every effort to affort a bit more time there.

Thank you for you suggestions. We appreciate your comments. To clarify, backpacking means packing light. We are staying in hotels and pensiones (know any good ones?). We plan on getting to Paris early and leaving on the train Wed. night which allows 2.5 days in Paris. Didn't know about museums being closed Mon. and Tues. Let us know if we missed anything else regarding museum schedules. Germany-why would you omit it? Returning may not be an option so we are trying to see all we can.
Bill and Barb

Because it looks like you wont be able to return to Europe, I would do much research. You can read about different countries on the internet or/and read books.
Also you can watch DVD's (some you can now download) and watch programs on different countries. What ever appeals to the both of you, then choose that country.
This is what I did before my first trip to Europe, and is even a lot of fun to do! Your tastes may be different from mine, but if you choose one country, Italy is just wonderful!
What ever country you choose, I'm sure the two of you will enjoy your trip. So much to choose from in Europe, and all the countries (that I've been too anyway) are really wonderful.
Have Fun!!!
PS. Maybe people are suggesting to cut out Germany because it's not as romantic as France or Italy.
ONLY GUESSING!

I disagree with the "one country" suggestions; after all, this is a 3-week trip. I do agree that it's strongly preferably to devote at least 3 actual sightseeing days (not counting travel time) in the largest cities. So London and Paris should either both be extended, or eliminate one in order to extend the other. Venice also looks shortchanged, considering that you'll be spending a large part of one day just traveling there from Germany. It's not a super-large city, but I think you'll want at least 2 real days there.

Good luck!

Your schedule seems a bit busy, but not nearly as full as what some people try to do for a first trip. Counting your arrival day and departure day as one day, you have 20 days to see eight places, 2-1/2 days per place. You're using a night train to Rothenburg (well, actually, you can't get all the way to Rothenburg. Possibly get off in Stuttgart and take regular trains to Rothenburg). You get to Rothenburg in the morning, so you'll have nearly the full day (plus the next day) there.

Other than that, you might want to take the night train from Munich or Innsbruck to Venice to save a day.

The rest of your travel is in fairly short stretches, only part of a day (Vernazza to Rome is the longest, about 5 hours).

Having just returned from a 3 1/2-week trip where we rented an apt in Paris for a week, but stayed only 2 nights at each of several locations in France, my husband and I vowed to never do the 2-night thing again! We knew better going into it, but just didn't want to omit anything. Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but other than Paris, we just didn't have enough time anywhere we went, since each area we chose had wonderful things to offer. You must consider the time it takes to travel from one location to another which really cuts into the time you have to visit a site.
As all of say, just assume you will return. Try to pare it down to the "must-sees" and then look at the "nice-to-sees" to see if you have time for them.
Happy anniversary! We just made 30 ourselves.

Hello Bill and Barb. I suggest : travel in a day time train from Paris on Thursday. (No night trains). Do not go to Germany. (not enough time for it). I suggest go to Switzerland, be there 3 nights, and travel to Venice on Sunday. For your train trips in ITALY : I recommend : reserve seats in a EUROSTAR train, FIRST CLASS.

Especially when you are traveling for the first time, things will take longer than you think. Little things, like learning how to use the metro or what is closed midday or what local specialties you like to eat and drink. And every time you change countries you will have to shift gears and learn it again.

Probably you will find that process energizing and exciting and part of what you signed up for--hooray!--but I can't imagine a better formula for frustration and disappointment than a tight schedule that turns each little leap on the learning curve into an obstacle that is keeping you from seeing the sights.

I also think that on a faced-paced three-week trip most people need at least one break about halfway through--a slow-paced stop to recharge & regroup.

Someone said, Save Germany for another trip. Personally, I'd say France & Italy would be plenty and you'd have a great time. Paris-Provence-NT-Venice-Florence-Rome. Or, just hit the biggies--London, Paris & Rome. Bon voyage!

Frank has a good idea...most of us here pride ourselves on our independence and our willingness to explore all the nooks and crannies of Europe (or wherever we may be travelling).

That said, there are times when the RS guided tour makes sense...and this sounds like the right time. I suggest that you preface your 14 day Best of Europe with 4 nights in London, then catch the chunnel to Paris where you connect with the tour. Add 3 nights at the end to really experience Rome...that would make a great combination tour!

I think the Rick Steves tour is a great idea!
Are you on a budget? The tour is expensive, and does not include air fare. You should look into other tours too.
However, I don't blame you if you just want to go on your own and be free. But, on the other hand, tours are great because you will see all the important things with a guide.
I personally never been on a tour, and traveled on my own. After my first trip to Europe, I thought I would never go back, but I got very hooked! This fall will be my fourth year in a row, traveling Europe on my own. I do without a lot to afford this.
You said you were going in the fall. Perfect! It's much cheaper traveling off season, and shorter lines where ever you go. The weather may not be perfect, but at least you're there! I travel to Europe in November. Bring warm enough cloths!

You are right Lisa...it is somewhat expensive. But I think trip Bill has described is not inexpensive. For budgetary purposes, I would allow $2000 per week per person (just like RS tours)..that said, they could do the entire trip for around $12,000 not including incidentals (a few meals not covered in the RS fees, drinks and any gifts you might bring back). Does not include airfare.

We love the comments. Just to let you know, we already have our airfare covered--flying into London and out of Rome. We are calling our trip, "Europe on a Shoestring". We have been on tours before and would like to try this one on our own and it seems to fit our budget better.

Our ancestors were from Germany and Italy so we have a special interest in those two countries. Our idea was to rest in the small towns of Rothenburg & Fussen before we continue on to another big city. If we decided to omit one of these and spend three nights in the other which would be the better choice for sightseeing? This also allows for a night train to Venice as Lee suggested. Would this give us a better chance to recharge without skipping Germany altogether?

A night train may be both worthwhile and logistically astute, but I predict it will not reduce your need to recharge. To the contrary.

Hi Bill,
Congratulations on 30 years. I think your European trip is a wonderful way to celebrate and make new memories. It is interesting reading all the reply's you have received. I agree with Bonne, you need to add more days to Paris. I would cut out the Cinque de Terre. I did a similar trip in '96 and was not impressed with the italian riveria. I loved Italy, the Loire Valley, Paris esp. Germany is beautiful and the people are esp. friendly, the trains are clean and punctual. An organized trip is a great idea esp. if you aren't up to this type of physical activity. I live in Stow. E-mail me if you have any more questions I might be able to help. You will get a lot of valuable info. from this website!!
Amy

Since London and Rome are required by your flights, and since you're particularly interested in Germany, I would suggest that you eliminate Paris. Spend a little extra time in London, then take a one-way FLIGHT into Germany. You can fly EasyJet from London to Munich for about 30 euros per person, and you might even find something cheaper. Visit the towns in Germany by train or rental car, then visit a couple of cities in Italy before flying out of Rome.

This is certainly an ambitious schedule though it seems to be what you want/need. My suggestion is to somehow add a night in Paris. It is the city for lovers and this is your 30th anniversary trip! Remember you need time to sit in cafes and people watch. Try to study train and subway maps and schedules on line before you go to give you a leg up on that issue. Learn the basic phrases in each language. This will really help. Have menu decoders in your pocket at all times. Google Earth and similar sites are a good way to study up. There are great suggestions all over this site to help. Ciao!