First time to Europe as a family of six. Are three countries too many for a 2 week trip?

I think you have a very doable itinerary and timeframe to introduce your 4 teenagers to Europe. Get them all involved with the planning in each city to see what their dreams may be and have fun! I have no issue with your itinerary.

If you want help tweaking specifics in cities after your kids have weighed in, pop back in the different country forums for additional input.

Given the ages of your children, your time is drawing to a close to have everyone travel together for a an extended trip. So my advice is to do what you really want to do. If London, Paris, and Rome makes everyone's heart sing, go for it. Sure three cities in three countries is ambitious, but a trip through the great cities never hurt anyone. It will likely kindle interest for your children to study abroad in college and they can see more of Europe on their own when that time comes. As their parents, you can visit them then, perhaps accompanied by those children whose schedules permit them to travel with you. Best wishes with your project!

"I would have very much liked to have worked in a visit to Switzerland but given to relatively short amount of time it doesn't seem possible."

All you need to do is leave out Rome. There's a good reason for doing so, according to Rick - the summer heat there...

Moderate the weather conditions you’ll encounter. For 30 years of
travels, my routine has been spring in the Mediterranean area and
summer north of the Alps.

The other reason is your whole trip right now is megacities.

There's nothing like the Bernese Oberland - Lauterbrunnen or thereabouts. You might want to include a stopover on the way from Paris in Strasbourg FR or the Black Forest (just across the border from Strasbourg.)

See Rome and Florence together some other time.

Hi!

We took a similar trip a few years ago with out kids who were then ages 8 and 13. We did 4 days in Paris and 5 days in London. We started out our trip with 8 days in Germany including a day in Munich. The rest of our time was spent in rural Germany.

I think you'd plan sounds great. If you're worried that it might be really warm in Rome, I would consider adding that to another trip and finding a third location somewhere cooler. But if you're set on Rome, then go for it and don't look back!

Happy Travels!

Leave out Roma, are you kidding?!!!!

Tom, three major cities, the three classics - go for it!

Are three countries too many for a 2 week trip?

No

Have you (parents) been to these cities before? That makes it easier to make to the most of limited time, but really the amount of time in each city is not unreasonably short anyway. London-Paris-Rome are the classic big three, so a great introduction to Europe for the kids. A couple of things, my usually rule is don't get on a plane in the middle of an itinerary. It's not so bad to do it once over this period of time though. Second, you are visiting three big cities that can be very exhausting. At this stage of my travels, I would want to mix things up with some smaller cities and towns. But if you are up to the challenge and/or have the sense to not run yourselves ragged (as I would in these cities) you will be fine. Enjoy!

Your plan is very doable. I agree with Russ, drop Rome visit Murren or Wengen in Berner Oberland and fly out of Zurich or Milan. 4 kids may suffer museum and church overload. Hit the mountains to change things up.

Consider a little tweaking. The flight is only about 7 hours, which means you won't get more than 3-4 hours sleep, maybe less. It will take 2-4 hours from landing to your hotel (depending on lines at the airport, whether you have checked bags, how you get into the city, and where your hotel is). So the 24th is not a full day and some of you will be zonked. So you have 3 full days in London, and some of you may still be zonked for part of that. A midday train from London is inefficient. You have to be at the train station 45 minutes to an hour before departure. So a noon train means leaving the hotel with your bags around 10.00-10.30 (depending on how far you are from the station and allowing for city traffic). Then you get to Paris around 3.30, so it's at least 4 pm before you get to your hotel to drop your bags. You may do better to leave early (you can sleep on the train) or spend most of the day at a few more London sights and take an early evening train, go straight to bed and wake up to Paris. So I'd probably drop a day from Rome and add it to London.

Chani's response is very sensible. You lose an hour when you go to France with the time zone.

As you can see from the responses, it's down to personal choice. You have picked the big three, as it were. You barely have time to scratch the surface of any. If you wanted more variety, rather than just seeing cities full of other tourists, you could just stay in say London and Paris and do day trips into the countryside or smaller towns.

Americans seem to have more of a thing for Switzerland than us Europeans do!

It will be impossible to find adjoining apartments in one single building in Paris, and probably anywhere else you mentioned.
Better to book two or three rooms in a legal apart'hotel, where you will have real beds, full bathrooms, kitchen and laundry facilities. You'll also have help from the 24/7 front desk staff, if you need anything.
Here are some suggestions for legal apart'hotels in Paris, which will help take some worry out of your trip:
Citadines and Adagio have many locations, convenient to transportation and everything else you'll need.
http://www.residencehenri4.com/en/
http://www.leroidesicile-paris.com/
http://www.helzear.fr/en/

If you're only planning to stay a few days in a Parisian apartment - and you'd need a huge budget to house this many people in one apartment - you might face the problem of the owner/manager preferring to rent for a longer period of time, and might face a last-minute cancellation.

Wow! Thank's everyone for posting your suggestions and comments. The detailed information above is really appreciated.

The kids aren't little anymore nor are they shy about voicing their preference for seeing all three cities. It sounds as if the trip is doable but might require some little changes - a day longer in one city versus another. An earlier departure from London ( or later). Which is perfectly fine at this early stage. So even though the Swiss Alps will have to wait I think the 3 cities will more than make up for it!

Question though for Chexbres. Through Airbnb I found some very nice apartments in Paris that would easily accommodate all of us. But if I understood your post correctly if we book the apartment there is a chance that we could lose it to another renter staying for a longer period of time? Which obviously would be a real problem especially if it is last minute.

Thank you again, I was really overwhelmed when I saw all the posts!

Tom

An owner or manager has the right to cancel a reservation if he can find someone who will pay more. Some will hold out until the last minute, claiming "plumbing problems", but will actually accept someone who will stay longer. Lots of people play around with their calendars, can claim double-booking, etc.

You will be actually staying about 3 nights in Paris, since check-in time is usually around 2PM, and you must leave the apartment by around noon. Frankly, it's not worth the bother, and most apartments aren't that great.

In fact, check-in times are pretty much universal, so you might want to think about doing some adjustment to your schedule, as well as including travel time - including building in some "delay time" if travelling by train or plane.

Since this is your first time in Paris, I'd recommend staying in a legal apart'hotel, where you won't have anything to worry about.

Hotel Residence Henri IV or Citadines Richard Lenoir would be my picks for the most interesting and convenient neighborhoods to explore.

I would be cautious about Air. B and B in Paris----there is no guarantee that it is a legal rental. Right now there is a long discussion on TripAdvisor in the Paris forum. An American student rented an Air B and B apartment for 6 months. A couple of weeks into the stay, Paris police showed up to confirm they were renting. That day or the next the owner made them move to his own apartment---uncleared and full of his stuff!

Apparently the rental was an illegal one--- it violated the provision that a Paris apartment owner can rent out his OWN residence ( where he lives) for a maximum of four months a year. More than that and it becomes a business which has to be registered with the city. So does an apartment the owner does not live in. This guy did not actually live in the apartment the students rented, and he rented it for more than four months, and he got caught. To remedy the violation without losing the rental money, he moved the students to his own apartment, which is totally unacceptable to them. So they have to take it up with Air B and B to cancel the rental contract.

So you have good advice above to rent from a reputable agency in Paris, not Air. B and B. We like Vacation n Paris, an American company that is well-established. You can call them without paying foreign phone call expenses and confirm that the apartment you want is a legal rental.

On their website I found this 3-bedroom, 2.5 bath apartment in the Maria's that will accommodate the 6 of you comfortably.

http://www.vacationinparis.com/listing/337/stylish-marais-three-bedroom

One bedroom has a double bed for the parents, and the other two bedrooms can be configured into two towns each. Voilá!

It rents for $595 a night. Prices they quote are in $ not € and you pay in $ with a credit card and no foreign transaction fee.

The one problem is you would have to change the order of visit, starting in Paris instead of London, as it is not available after June 30. That should not be a problem---fly into Paris, train to London, then fly to Rome. Sometimes flying into Paris is cheaper anyway---something to do with airport taxes at Heathrow.

The story on TA is a completely different situation, involving student rentals. It does not seem that all the facts of the story have been given.
But it appears that the owner has been under investigation for awhile. As of last July, no neighbors have the right to complain to the Mayor's Office to have the tenants evicted. There must be a committee formed by the residents of the building, and they must follow a lengthy process before the investigators come to visit.

Any agency has the legal right to list short-term rentals, including AirBnB.
However, these agencies will not vouch for the fact that the rentals they represent are, in fact, legally rented.

The burden is on the renter to find out if the apartment is legal - and owners/managers will tell you anything you want to hear.

Vacation in Paris is based in New Jersey, which seems more "legit" than any other agency in Paris, simply because they accept US dollars. This is simply not the case - their rentals are not legal because they are rented year-round, which is not permitted.

Short-term rentals are illegal unless the owner has applied to the Mayor's Office for a registration number, does not rent more than 120 days out of the year, declares revenue and collects hotel room tax, as well as a host of other complicated issues.

As I mentioned, it's not worth the trouble for just 2 or 3 days.

Thank you Chexbres and Sasha for the additional information. I'll be spending more time this weekend planning the trip and will come to a decision not only on the Paris rental but also London and Rome as well I suppose. I am glad I have started looking into the trip now even though it's is several months away and extremely grateful for all of the advice you've all shared.

I think Chani's suggestion of 5 nights in London instead of Rome makes a lot of sense.
No language issues and many easy options to get out of town for a day should you wish.

Chexbres----I am not saying Vacation in Paris is legitimate simply because they are an American company. That comment goes to the ease of communication and payment.

They are legitimate because, unlike Air BnB, they maintain some control over the apartments they list. They do offer apartments all year round, but no individual apartment is rented out in excess of the 120 days allowed. I called them to ask about this and they said in the rare event the apartment rented goes over the limit, they would know in advance and find the renter a different apartment. You would not get booted out after arrival or have it canceled at the last minute without recourse.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding here about the Paris situation. Not all short-term apartment rentals are in violation of Paris law. As explained here

https://bonjourparis.com/apartments/i-know-paris-vacation-apartment-rental-legal/

An owner is allowed to rent out his own apartment ( the one he or she lives in) for up to 120 days per year. He or she can do it through Air BnB or list it with an agency like Vacation in Paris, or others people mention. As long as it is not rented out more than 120 days it is perfectly legal as a short-term rental. So someone looking for an apartment should question the owner or agency closely to insure they are complying with the law. I think that is easier to do with an agency like VIP because their reputation is at stake. And their reputation is what their business depends on.

I hate to disagree with you about VIP.

If they rent apartments for more than 120 days out of the year, it doesn't matter if "they help you find another apartment".
They are in violation of the law.
VIP has been in business a long time, and is an expert in customer relations. They will also tell the client anything he wants to hear.

The "bonjour paris" article is wildly overly-simplified.
There are a lot more considerations which much be satisfied, to assure that an apartment is rented legally.

Blogs such as this specialize in feeding people what they want to hear, and do not concentrate on the facts, of which there are too many to list.
An individual who resides full-time in his apartment may have the right to rent up to 120 days per year, but he must declare the income and must collect the "taxe de sejour".

Determining whether or not the resident actually owns the apartment - or is subleasing or managing it for someone else - can be very difficult.

VIP does not own the apartments. They are a listing agency where owners can list their own residences. They sign up with VIP and get listed on the VIP website. Apartment owners can legally rent out their own home as short-term rentals, for up to 120 days a year. It is only when someone exceeds that 120 days a year, or owns and rents out multiple short-term apartments that are not their personal residence, that the law is violated.

So the fact that VIP offers rentals year-round is irrelevant. So long as an individual apartment within their inventory is not rented out more than 120 days, it is all legal.

Also, VIP has been in business almost 20 years, since 1998. If there was a problem with their rentals or their business model, would not the Parisian authorities have cracked down on them?

Sasha - it is difficult for Parisian authorities to follow "paper trails" when transactions are completed in foreign countries. The Mayor's Office is concentrating on locally-owned transactions first, because it is simpler to prosecute them.
As I stated, a person wishing to rent legally must meet other criteria rather than renting 120 days or less. I work with neighborhood associations working closely on this issue with Ian Brossat's office.
Sorry, but you just don't have all your facts straight - regarding VIP or any other agencies.

Since you work with the Mayor's office then of course you are the expert. But that does not mean I do not have my facts---the ones I stated---straight. I simply pointed out that apartment owners are allowed to rent out their personal residence for up to 120 days a year. No, I did not mention taxes and other requirements but that was not part of the discussion. I never said there were no other requirements for a legal rental---just countering your statement that VIP rentals are per se illegal because "they rent year round.". That simply does not make sense, where they are simply a listing agency for apartments owned by lots of different people. No one apartment is rented "year round."

Now if the situation is that VIP is renting out apartments that the company itself owns, or renting out apartments that are second homes or investment property, that is a different situation. That is not legal. That should be easy for the Mayor's office to determine without an onerous "paper trail.". Aren't there records of property ownership? Given the huge €€€ penalties for violations, there should be a large incentive for the Mayor's office to pursue this if they suspect the company is operating illegally. Given the length of time the company has been in business, the Mayor's office has had plenty of time to do that.

Or if the suspicion is that the listed properties are individually owned and being rented out by the owners, but in excess of the 120-day limit, why is it any more difficult to check on that with VIP than it is with Air BnB? Is the article I linked wrong when it says the city has reached an agreement with Air BnB to monitor compliance and send the owners a notice when they have reached the 120-day limit? If correct, why is monitoring any more difficult with VIP (an American company) than it is with Air BnB (also an American company)? The VIP website is totally transparent and shows the times an individual apartment is booked. All they have to do is look. . . .

And if that description of the agreement with Air BnB is incorrect, perhaps you should post a comment there.

This issue is not limited to Paris, so I do have some understanding of the concern. Housing prices in some markets--Paris, London, New York, and others are rising in part because property owners can make more money with short-term rentals than long-term leases (plus they can evade local laws regarding eviction, rent control, etc.). But many travelers do not wish to stay in hotels and be dependent on restaurants. We prefer to rent an apartment and make our own meals, whether to save money or satisfy our own restrictive dietary requirements. We have no desire to irritate the local residents or cause anyone to violate local laws. But we appreciate the opportunity to rent a "home away from home".

Re: "that wretched summer heat in Rome." I wonder if it is worse in whatever way than in Toulon, where I faced the most oppressive heat given the combination of the latitude, the sun, the Mediterranean, and the summer season in 1997. That was unlike anything yet experienced. Two years later also in the summer, I went back again to Toulon, same heat. I haven't visited Rome in the summer yet but that's coming.

Two weeks, six people, three cities in three countries seem very doable to me. My wife and I, one daughter and two of her children (five people) spent two weeks in a London AirBnB apartment last year. It was cheaper than renting 3 rooms in a comparable hotel. As the apartment included a kitchen, living room and two bedrooms and two bathrooms and was located midway between the the Houses of Parliament and Buckingham Palace we were very happy with the arrangement. But what I would like to do is give you suggestions for out-of-town day trips. Even though there is more to see in each of these three cities than you can possibly do in five days it will give a change of scene.

From London I would suggest Oxford and/or Cambridge. Your kids are or are approaching university age and these two universities offer short courses that might appeal to kids who want to spend a summer abroad. For other interests you might consider Canterbury, Salisbury, Stonehenge or the Cotswolds.

In Paris - Giverny, Normandy, Mont St Michel, or the Loire Valley appeal to me.

From Rome you might like Pompeii, Ostia Antica and, maybe, the Pope's summer residence.

These sights will give your kids an opportunity to see something on a smaller scale than the big cities that you have chosen.

Looks like a great itinerary to me! If you want a little change of pace you can take a day trip for two (i.e. Versailles from Paris). Have fun!

If you don't want to tackle the crowds at Versailles, you can take a short train trip to Fontainebleau - there aren't very many people who go here, and it's a delightful daytrip.
http://www.musee-chateau-fontainebleau.fr/spip.php?lang=en

I think you can do three cities in two weeks. You can't really tour three countries in that time. I normally don't plan vacations with more than one flight there and another back, and try to keep the travel legs small on travel days - but that's my preference.

When I went to Versaille is was remarkably uncrowded. The only thing I can think of is there was forecasted rain. It barely sprinkled at all but it seems like the hoards decided to pick a different day. Maybe you will get lucky that way too?

I like the three cities in two weeks but would reverse the order to start in Rome due to weather. I've found that mid to late June is pretty comfortable and the crowds haven't peaked, thus leaving all a bit more energetic. But Rome is warm and earlier would be better. My biggest complaint about Rome is the hot stones everywhere and little green space. Also, if you've been to these cities before it's much easier to design your in-city itinerary efficiently. I've travelled with teenagers in both France and Italy and my experience with girls is that they are delightful, eager and open-minded. And you can learn from them if you allow yourself to experience it from their perspective. We've done both hotels and Home Away apartments - both successfully. As usual, it comes down to a central city or close-in neighborhood location to maximize the experience and minimize time-consuming transit or extra and less impactful walking. We also gave the kids a little elbow room to explore a bit on their own, but within limits. Have loads of fun together!