First Time to Europe - 7 weeks England/Scotland, France, Switzerland & Germany

Since you are only staying one night in most of the small remote scenic areas you aren't giving yourselves much wiggle room for those days where the weather is either poor or abysmal as it will be from time to time at that time of the year.

You are also not giving yourselves any down time to recharge the batteries. Energizers Bunnies to the rescue?

Just one night in the Berner Oberland at the end of November is asking for trouble. Are you skiers?

You need to be prepared for the very short days and dark gray skies throughout Europe at that time of year.

Day 4 Oxford is on the way, Cambridge is many many miles out.

It appears to me that you going to spend most of your time in transit and will not have time to see very much. That is a long way to go to miss seeing all the great sites in your destinations. You say this is your first time to Europe. Assume you will return. Cut some of your destinations and add more time in those that are more important to you. I would definitely add more time in London and Paris. I think your schedule for Normandy is not feasible unless you add several more days. Have you looked at maps to see the distances you will be traveling everyday?

As great as the D-Day landings were, note that the troops involved were British, American and Canadian.
Some air cover was provided by Australian pilots, however no Australian ground forces were involved.
I would urge you instead to pay your respects at Villers-Bretonneux, site of Australia's World War I Memorial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villers%E2%80%93Bretonneux_Australian_National_Memorial

Also, a quick glance and I counted 24 travel days on your itinerary - approx one half of your total days.
Over a period of 7 weeks I would be looking at a more comfortable figure than this.

Day 1 to 13. Either halve the number of destinations or spend double the time here as you will spend most of the time in traffic and not sight seeing.

The whole trip is too many one night stops and don't forget it will be dark by 4pm at that time of year.

You need a few down days in a trip of this length

London, Paris and Berlin all need at least 4 full days there to even scratch the surface.

Day 27 - Train Amboise to Lausanne - 2 nts
Day 28 - Lausanne and Montreux
Day 29 - Train Lausanne to Lauterbrunnen - 2 nts
Day 30 - Jungfraujouch
Day 31 - Morning train Lauterbrunnen to Luzern - 1 nt
Day 32 - Afternoon train Luzern to St Moritz - 1 nt
Day 33 - Glacier Express train to Zermatt - 2 nts
Day 34 - Zermatt
Day 35 - Train Zermatt to Germany

Your Days 11 & 12 are quite impossible - about 900km of driving - 2/3 of it in the Highlands.
Forget Loch Ness and plan a stop instead at Loch Lomond on the day of your drive between the Lake District and Oban. Stop at Stirling between Oban and Edinburgh.

On Day 11 drive south instead to Durham. Sightseeing options along the way include Berwick-upon-Tweed, Lindisfarne, Bamburgh and Alnwick (oft used as a film location).

In my opinion this looks like too much driving/flying/railing compared to enjoying and exploring. You have 7 weeks, and most likely you will spend half of your journey in bed or "on the road".

It might sound temting to squeeze in a lot when you have that long time in Europe, but I really think you'll be better by cutting down your destinations a bit, and I think you will enjoy yor trip a bit more. For instance. 3-4 days in London is quite fair. But 1 and a half day in Berlin is not enough. You will not even get a taste.

Day 35 - Switzerland to Baden-Baden, Germany - 2 nts (Pick up hire car)
Day 36 - Explore Baden-Baden
Day 37 - Drive to Rhine Valley / Bacharach - 2 nts
Day 38 - Explore Rhine Valley
Day 39 - Drive to Wurzburg - 1 nt
Day 40 - Explore Romantic Road to Augsburg - 1 nt (day includes Rothenburg)
Day 41 - Explore Romantic Road to Fussen - 1 nt
Day 42 & 43 - Munich - 3 nts (Drop off car)
Day 44 - Excursion to Dachau from Munich by public transport
Day 45 - Train to Nuremberg - 1 nt
Day 46 - Train to Dresden - 1 nt
Day 47 - Train to Berlin - 3 nts
Day 48 & 49 - Berlin
Day 50 - Fly Berlin to Australia

You are just plain planning to do too much. You need to cut back and accept that you either won't see everything or that you will have a second trip.

I made my first trip to Europe as a student and was fortunate to travel a lot over the course of 6 months. The next two trips were each a month long. So, for ever so long I thought that you could only really go to Europe if you had at least 4 weeks. This is NOT TRUE. Even traveling from Australia you need to think about the possibility of a second trip.

You are spending the entire 7 weeks driving and not giving yourself time to see and experience anything. It doesn't matter whether we're considering Loch Ness or Berlin--you are not leaving enough time.

So, my advice is to rank the things that you want to see. And then start over with your plans.

Pam

Tanya,

It is obvious that you put a lot of effort into creating this list. It must be disheartening to look back and just see it torn to pieces.

But this is the collective voice of wise experience. We want to return home all happy and full of good memories, not wiped out and angry for missing the bucket list.

Thank you everyone for your valuable advice. We have taken it on board and re looking at the itinerary. I will post again a sample itinerary once we have mapped it out.

Hi,

I would suggest dropping Baden Baden, either that or Switzerland. Add those days to staying in Munich or Dresden, too short for a city.

That is a very long holiday, which is wonderful! We travel for 4 weeks and are never ready to come home, but that said, it can be exhausting. You don't seem to slow down at all and you may find it is too tiring to keep that pace, as well as not enjoy it for 7 weeks. Our general rule is: minimum 4 nights in larger cities, and 3 nights elsewhere, unless it is a really small village then 2 nights. But, I would personally only do 1 or 2 -2 night stays on any trip. It takes a lot of energy/time to change locations. Slow it down and enjoy it more. You have a lot of time, so don't rush it so much. I would even find a location to stay put to recharge a few extra days in the middle of the trip. Maybe add some laundry days/ sleep in days, etc. to make it more manageable.

Susan (and Monte) makes a good point. You haven't allowed any down time, or time to smell the roses so to speak. Your schedule allows you to check things off on a list. You will not have time really enjoy the places you will see, and you will be rushed. After awhile it all becomes a blur. Also, laundry. You either have to A. Allow enough time to go to a laundromat, or B. Stay at a hotel that provides this service (be prepared for it to cost €€ and you will have to be there for more than one night), or C. Plan to hand wash some clothes every few days. You would have to allow time for clothing to dry, so at least two nights. I try to stay in apartments every so often and a washing machine is a requirement. Then I can do laundry in my down time.

I agree with Susan's suggestion to allow 4 nights in large cities if you can. Especially London and Paris. Remember that spending 2 nights in a location gives you only 1 full day there, 3 nights = 2 full days, and so on.

Driving that time of year will likely involve inclement weather. That can affect your driving times, so I would keep that in mind.

Every trip I take starts out with a long list of must sees, and evolves into something more reasonable. It's impossible to do it all, so try to have a trip that allows you to really see things in the places you do go.

Hi Tanya. We Aussies are all the same. Because it takes so damn long and costs an 'arm and a leg' to get there, we try to cram as much as we can into our time in UK and Europe. A couple of observations having been there and done that a few times. I always try to avoid 'back tracking'. Suggest you go to Loch Ness from Oban instead of Oban to Edinburgh and then back up to Inverness. Oban to Inverness 108 miles. Oban to Edinburgh 122 miles. It would be a good idea when revisiting your itinerary to try to spend a night in the Glencoe area on you way back to Edinburgh. We have travelled extensively through Germany and France by rail. The Germans 'ace' rail travel. Can't say the same for the French. Have you checked you can get to the Loire Valley by train directly from Bayeaux - or do you have to back to Paris? Same with Amboise to Lausaunne leg. I agree with suggestion, instead of the D-Day beaches, check out the Somme and Western Front. We spent a day in this area and it was one of the most moving and memorable days I have experienced in my travels. Godd luck with the planning - that's half the fun. Look forward to seeing you final itinerary.
Also have you checked the Bernina Express bus is running from Ticinio to Lugano at the time of the year you are going?
Just did a check re France trail travel. As I thought, Bayeux to Amboise is routed through Paris. Amboise to Lausaunne (a 14 hour trip) is also routed through Paris. Very 'Pariscentric' the French!!

Tanya,

I agree with the others that the first Itinerary version was far too ambitious. I look forward to seeing your revised Itinerary.

Our revised itinerary taking into account everyone's suggestions. We depart Australia 20th October and return home 12th December. We have also changed our countries:
Start in London (6 nights).
On the 6th day plan to take afternoon/early evening train to Paris to arrive before 9pm to start our full day of Paris in the morning
Paris (6 nights)
Paris to Tours/Amboise via train (3 nights)
Train back to Paris in the morning and afternoon flight from CDG at 15:20 to Venice arriving at 17:00
Venice (4 nights)
Train Venice to Cinque Terre (2 nights)
Train Cinque Terre to Florence (4 nights)
Train Florence to Rome (5 nights)
Fly Rome to Budapest departing 15:00 arriving 16:45
Budapest (3 nights)
Train to Vienna (3 nights)
Train to Prague (3 nights)
Train to Berlin 10:27am arriving 14:28pm
Berlin (5 nights)
Train to Nuremberg (2 nights)
Train to Munich (5 nights)
Fly Munich to Australia

I welcome feedback on our revised itinerary and if it looks realistic. I appreciate we will be on the go a lot, however I have ensured we are based in a place for a minimum of 3 nights or more except Nuremberg and Cinque Terre which are 2 nights each.

Now we have to work out the best rail pass to purchase for this trip. We have two flights to maximise our time in moving from one country to the next, otherwise it is rail system everywhere else.

I think this looks great. You will have a much more enjoyable trip.

Oh, I can breathe now. Honestly, Tanya, I like it much better.

I'm not sure that you'll need rail pass. All the French trains will need a passholder reservation which is included in normal tickets but costs beaucoup euro for pass holders. Working well in advance your tickets can be as low as the passholder fees, and no pass to pay for either. Same in Italy.

Yes, really.

I am not just breathing now like Nigel, I am positively salivating. This is much better. Well done.
Two observations ...
1) I would drop Cinque Terre in November (save it for a warmer time) & spend the 2 nights in Verona or Bologna.
2) I would pinch a night from Rome or Munich and add it to Budapest.

Well done. Much more doable. Extra night in Budapest would be worthwhile. A night off Munich?

Thank you everyone for your feedback and recommendations. We will remove CT and plan to do it another time