First time through Europe, Traveling Question

Ryan,

As this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly advise pre-reading the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door before you get too far in your planning.

My first impression after reading your proposed Itinerary, is that it's perhaps a bit "overly ambitious". Visiting eight somewhat geographically diverse cities in a time frame of 23 days is going to be "challenging" to say the least. While this wasn't specifically the topic of your question, I felt it was prudent to mention it to ensure that your trip is as realistic and problem-free as possible.

A few things to keep in mind. You'll lose the first day in travel times and time zone changes (especially from the southwest), and will be jet lagged for a day or two after arrival. The last day will be spent on the trip home.

Plan on at least half a day for your trip from Ireland to Amsterdam (I'm assuming you're planning on using RyanAir?). Some of your rail journeys will also require at least half a day...

Amsterdam/Berlin: ~6.25 hours

Berlin/Munich: ~6.5 hours

Munich/Paris: ~6-8 hours

Paris/Barcelona: ~9-14 hours

It's extremely important to allow for adequate travel times between cities!

Good luck with your planning!

Adding onto what Ken wrote... in addition to the rail journey times, you need to factor in the time it takes to check out of a hotel, get to the train station, wait until your train leaves, find and make your way to the hotel in the next city, check-in, unpack and get settled. So, if the travel time between cities is listed as 5 hours, add about 3-4 for all the additional steps I mentioned. I count 8 destinations in about 23 days. On most of your travel days, you won't be able to do much more that eat dinner in your arrival city. Minus your seven travel days, that leaves only 16 full days to explore some of the most amazing cities on earth. Trust us, cut back, unless your goal is an in-depth comparison of Europe's various national rail companies.

I'm no rail expert, but it seems in most cases, a rail pass makes less sense than just buying point-to-point, using budget airlines and night trains to cover long distances. A night train might be an especially good way to save time and also save money on overnight accomodations for the Munch/Paris and Paris/Barcelona journeys.

A lot of people will tell you to cut down (maybe even halve) your itinerary, but it sounds like you should have at least a couple of days in each destination and I think that's just fine.

I hope this doesn't come off as too presumptuous, but I think the majority of this forum seems to be made up of older people who are likely to travel with families, and can afford to stay longer/have a higher likelihood of taking another trip in the near future. I think the travel priorities of someone in this group can differ greatly from those of a single 19-year-old who might just want a taste of as many places as possible for their first time. But again, this is my speculation/impression of this forum only :)

Also, Rick's Best of Europe in 21 Days tour seems to cover about as many destinations in about the same time, so I don't think it's too hard to do.

"Also, Rick's Best of Europe in 21 Days tour seems to cover about as many destinations in about the same time, so I don't think it's too hard to do."

It's not hard for RS's company to do, but having taken that tour (its very worthwhile BTW) RS has some big advantages over the individual traveler. The bus leaves when they want it to (often pretty darn early!), not when the national rail company decides the train should go. The bus meets you right near your hotel, so if its meet-in-lobby at 7:45am you're on the road by 8am; you're not nearly as quick getting to the train station. The bus drops you off near the next hotel, unlike the traveler that has to find it from the train station. Your guide calls ahead from the bus to finalize details; when you show up they have the keys ready and you're back out in the lobby and exploring in 20-30 minutes. And even with all that you spend a LOT of time on buses looking out windows.

Don't forget the RS tour arranges admission to many museums so you walk up and are in. Gives you local guides that meet your group when it is best for RS's planning; on your own if you want a city tour you make your schedule fit theirs. Walks you between sites without getting lost, pausing to read maps, etc. Arranges 1/2 the dinners (often on travel days) so you show up and they're often just about to bring out the food (the guide calls your orders ahead from the bus).

My estimation is that it would take the independent traveler 3 days to do what the RS tour does in 2, and it still would be much more harried since they smooth so many things out for you. Which means that 21-day tour (really 19) would take you about 30 days on your own.

Hi, Ryan --

As far as the rail question, you should try to check out the individual fares and compare them to what a youth flexi-pass would cost. (Don't forget that you can also get discounted individual tickets. One advantage is that a youth rail pass would allow you to change your plans on the way.)

To go along with Anna's post about people's advice on how many places to try to see -- on our first trip to Europe we covered a lot of ground. You've got energy on your side, and you may want to visit more places with less depth, just so you can see what they're like. I consider my first 2 trips as sort of a Europe 101. In subsequent trips, I had already gotten the snapshot, and went on to a 201 sort of trip.

I've been to Rick Steves presentations and lectures on itinerary building, and even his books talk about spending only a few days at a time in some places.

Just try to do as much thinking about what's important to you to see. Travel light. Will you be hosteling? I hope this doesn't sound preachy, but there are a lot of different ways to travel. And no matter how you spend your time, you'll have the trip of a lifetime. I think the first trip is the most memorable, so have a great time!

Mikes points about what an indivudual traveller can do and what an organized tour can do in same amount of time is very valid. I have always travelled independently,but two years ago took my 11 yr old on a RS Family tour. We did 5 countries,( 7 cities I think) in 14( really 13) days.
There is no way an individule could see as much as we did as fast as we did. I have done both,, and the " check out of hotel then get to train station, ,then get take train, then get to next hotel etc" builds in way more time then, have breakfast,, get on bus. Bus goes when we want to go.

And we never seemed to wait in any lines,, everything was well timed,, with skipping to the front of lines in most sites.

I still prefer independent travel,, and heartily endorse it,,especially for young guys who just want to have fun etc,.,. but I would truly eleminate one place,, just to reduce travel stress and expenses.

Ryan,, are you flying in and out of Dublin,, or into Dublin and out of Madrid??

You have to do the math.

First-class rail passes are very often bad values, but a second-class youth pass might be a good deal.

For this itinerary, I'd look into flying from Galway to Berlin or Munich, then working your way back. You might even fly back to Paris, if you can get a cheap fare.

After reading Ryan's post I was going to suggest that they get a copy of RS Best of Europe tour to see what he thinks is a good overview of Europe especially for the first time travelers. Mike beat me to it. I second everything Mike said. I took the RS BofE 21 day tour and in the 8 RS tours I have taken (soon to be 9) it is still my favorite.