First Time in Europe (Revised): Trial Itinerary & Budget

I haven't been following your earlier thread, but I like this plan. I like the fact that you're counting nights, not days; that you are allowing at least 2, and usually 4, days in each location; and especially that you are being so careful with your financial projections.

It's way better to budget more than you need! Too many folks assume they can cut costs on the fly, or that stories they've heard about incidental expenses are exaggerated. With your careful planning, you're covered in case of emergency, and can have extra for the occasional splurge. Or just have more to finance that trip to Peru!

Well done.

The Trial Itinerary:
London - 4 days, 5 nights
Paris - 4 days, 5 nights
Venice - 2 days, 3 nights
Florence - 3 days, 4 nights
Rome - 4 days, 5 nights

Excellent trip. You will love it. With that budget you can live sort of large, so do it. After you have googled some hotel prices and flight costs and train tickets you will know.

Have a blast

Check out these sites for Museum passes.
They will save you time and $$$.

https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/sightseeing/london-attraction/museum/free-museums-in-london

https://en.parisinfo.com/discovering-paris/info/guides/paris-museum-pass

https://europeforvisitors.com/venice/
Travel pass for vaporetto.

http://www.firenzecard.it/en

Edit.
https://www.romapass.it/en/museums/

I'm including the Rome pass for description of sites only, it's not a good deal.

Edit. Official site for purchasing tickets and reservations if applicable.
https://www.coopculture.it/en/circuito.cfm?id=4

Very impressed with the planning so far and your budget. Usually someone will be way under estimating costs and you seemed to have been much more realistic. This way you will not be so stressed. Keep on posting here so we can follow your trip.

Your Itinerary looks great! Your budget is very conservative, you shouldn’t be paying more than around $1000 for transatlantic flights (if you’re coming from the US) so setting a $2k budget definitely gives you wiggle room. Also if you’re willing to stay in hostels, that $150/nt budget should be easy to stay under. You may also consider staying in an Airbnb. I’ve had wonderful experiences renting a private room in a local’s home. The host is a wealth of knowledge about the city and can usually point you in the right direction of things to do and places to eat. I can usually rent a private room for $50-80/nt in a central location.

There is a ton to do in London and most of their museums are free, so for 4 days I would honestly just stick to the city. However, if you want to do Stonehenge, I recommend getting a tour that takes you by Stonehenge on the way to Bath. Stonehenge doesn’t take very much time and Bath is an adorable city worth checking out. Another easy day trip from London is Canterbury, a cathedral city south of London.

The palace of Versailles is stunning and worth the visit IMO. Everyone comes early though, so come in the afternoon where there are less crowds. I also recommend the catacombs, just be sure to buy a timed ticket online beforehand so you can walk right in. I learned the hard way and stood in line for 2.5 hours.

Pisa is easily accessible from Florance by train. You only need a few hours in the small city to see the tower and walk around, so I always suggest catching an early train out of Florance to spend the morning in Pisa and be back in Florance by lunch. It’s about an hour each way on the train.

Walks of Italy: https://www.walksofitaly.com/, offer some nice tour packages.

You are doing a great job planning out your trip. Your itinerary somewhat looks like what I'm planning for my solo trip. I'm glad you dropped Greece out the mix for this trip. The change I'm making is that after Paris I am planning to take RS Loire Valley/South of France tour, then taking the train to Venice and ending there. Your budget is on track and is similar to mine. I've done lots of research and bounced figures around every which way. Open jaw flights from Phoenix to London then Venice to Phoenix consistently fall into the $1500/RT range. I don't know where you're flying from, but check several airlines' flight times and connections to find which works best for you. Instead of hostels, you can look at monastery stays for inexpensive accommodations https://www.monasterystays.com/ Keep in mind that today's costs will probably change as Europe opens up. I'm figuring I'll have to add 10% onto my current base.

When sister-in-law and I went to Italy we took Walks of Italy tours of San Marco/Doge's Palace in Venice and Pristine Sistine and Colosseum tours in Rome. They are well worth the money. Are you traveling with a companion or solo? Either way Eating Europe tours are fun and it's enjoyable to be around other people. We did their Rome Sunday tour in the Jewish Quarter.

(For 2022 or 2023 I also planned out two trips with my sister-in-law for independent travel. One is London, Paris, Nice, Milan, Venice. The other is London, Paris, Munich, Salzburg, Vienna. The total budgets aren't much different from my solo plan because of splitting hotel costs.)

EDIT: Remember to add travel insurance into your budget, one that will include Covid related issues, or at the very least Medical and Evacuation insurance. Two sites to look at Squaremouth.com and insuremytrip.com. There are previous posts on the forum about travel insurance.

I don't remember your prior plan but this one looks good, for a high-energy first trip to Europe. You're giving each city enough time to see the highlights (whatever yours might be) and decide whether you want to return some day. You have a chance to build down-time into the schedule if you need a break along the way -- cafe afternoon, laundry, strolling, whatever.

Of the various passes mentioned above, the only one I'm familiar with is the Paris Museum Pass, probably a good value for you. The 96-hour pass is only a little more expensive than the 48-hour one, and gives you lots more flexibility about using your time. Besides covering entrance fees, it saves you time in ticket-buying lines (but you still may have security lines), and it lets you pop into places for a short visit, or even a bathroom break, that you might not see otherwise. Note that the Louvre requires a timed entry even with the pass. It doesn't cover the Eiffel Tower.

This is a good source of info on train travel in Europe. For sure you'll want to pre-purchase your Eurostar ticket between London and Paris, well in advance for big savings. I haven't checked, but I expect flying from Paris to Venice would make the most sense. I don't think you'll save much by purchasing the Italian train tickets ahead, and you'll want flexibility in timing those short trips.

Of course it may still be a long time before the virus lets you make this wonderful trip, or enter those sights, but I'm sure you know all about that.

I think everything about your itinerary is spot on. And you've allowed a very comfortable budget. It would actually be easy to do this for a lot less, but giving yourself a lot of wiggle room will make it easy to be flexible and have a lot less stress and a lot fewer difficult decisions about where to spend money.

What I really admire, though, is your process. If everyone on this forum listened to the advice they asked for the way you have, the world would be a much better place.

Thanks you guys :) This is all more for fun than anything really. I still won’t get to see this trip til 2022-2023. Oh well! Hard parts over, the money is saved.

Yeah I feel like I’ve worked out some of the kinks it had going before. It definitely has more of a leisurely pace now while still remaining ambitious. I appreciate all the positive feedback. Awesome links to the tours and passes too. I definitely plan to skip everything. Europe shouldn’t be like Disneyland haha.

I had to find a way to justify not seeing Greece (big nerd) and my friend randomly came up and asked if I wanted to see Machu Picchu and I leaped at the opportunity. Now I’m seeing another beautiful and historic part of the world, while making Europe simpler and more focused.

I ran out of time the other day, but wanted to include this for Venice.

https://www.venetoinside.com/attraction-tickets-in-veneto/#VENICEMUSEUMSANDMONUMENTS

The pass makes good sense if it includes at least 2-3 sites you wish to see.

There's listed San Marco Basilica skip the line, cost has been 3-4 €. Entry to the museum upstairs is an additional fee, but well worth not only for the horses, but for the views over St. Marks square.

Sounds like you're well on your way planning for a wonderful trip, whenever it occurs.

Good plan.

Also, we did Macho Picchu, the Sacred Valley and Cusco in 2019, it was fantastic. We had a great tour from PeruAgency.com

Hiking the Inca Trail sounds great. My wife and I are healthy and fit, but were 71 when we visited MP. We live at sea level and walked up and down the hills of MP, but were exhausted after our day there.

You are probably young and strong, but the altitude adds to the challenge. Enjoy

Hey I had a quick question about maybe including Amsterdam into the mix. It wouldn’t be for too long. 2 full days and 3 nights. I figured it is super easy to get to from London or Paris, depending on how I would want to plan the route. Maybe London to Paris to Amsterdam? I’ve heard the airport is super easy for foreigners and I can use it to fly to Venice.

I’m not looking to have some “frat boy” experience but I was curious what I can do to make the most of those 2 days (if I decided to include it). I know of the Anne Frank House and the Rijksmuseum. Naturally I would buy my tickets far in advance.

Idk is this a good idea or maybe save it for another time? I’m not looking to spend too much time anyways, and it isn’t as ambitious as trying to include Greece. If you agree, are there things you would recommend doing or eating?

Actually scratch that idea! If I only have another 3 nights (possibly), I can take the train from France to Italy and spend 2 full days hiking in the Bernese Oberland region, specifically Wengen as a jumping off point.

Is it overly complicated getting from Paris to Bernese Oberland area of Switzerland? And onward to Venice? I don’t even know how expensive Switzerland is for three days, or Swiss train tickets hahaha.

Feel free to recommend any amazing Swiss Alp locations that stuck out to you :)

I’m always worried I might mess up train connections when I eventually travel.

The Trial Itinerary:
London - 4 days, 5 nights
Paris - 4 days, 5 nights
Venice - 2 days, 3 nights
Florence - 3 days, 4 nights
Rome - 4 days, 5 nights

Don't screw it up by trying to cram in 'one (two...?) more thing(s)'

Haha the idea was just the one place with zero expectations besides hike or relax while adding a place along the way to enjoy the European scenery by train.

Is it overly complicated getting from Paris to Bernese Oberland area
of Switzerland? And onward to Venice?

Not at all. There are TGVs from Paris to several Swiss cities. Not to Bern, but with one change in Basel you can reach Bern in around 4 hours from Paris. And from Bern it is easy to reach the Berner Oberland.

Getting from Berner Oberland to Venice is even easier, there are direct trains from Bern to Milan that also stop in a couple of towns in the Oberland, Spiez and Thun. So you can travel from Berner Oberland to Venice in less than 6 hours with one change in Milan.

Not sure what cities you folks are flying out of but I never get cheeper then 1300 and often closer to 1600-1800 range from my State to England/France/Germany/Rome.

Personally I would edit it down a bit more, Drop Venice. It saves you in travel and gains you enough days/nights to add one each to Paris, Rome, London.
Or Better yet 1 to London, and Two to Rome allowing a Day trip or two from Rome.
-Doug M

There are TGVs from Paris to several Swiss cities. Not to Bern, but with one change in Basel you can reach Bern in around 4 hours from Paris. And from Bern it is easy to reach the Berner Oberland.

True, Badger, but in normal times you don't always need to change twice. Usually there is a train from Basel all the way to Interlaken Ost from whence goes the train up the hill to Lauterbrunnen.

I also find Basel slightly easier to change in than Bern. Bern has a huge underground tunnel with ramps up to the platforms and stairs on the other side. Basel has a gantry with stairs down and also lift and escalators for each platform. Plenty of food to take-away in both stations if you are getting peckish after the TGV ride.

I'm in agreement with Douglas from Michigan regarding airfares. Leave the $2000 figure in your planning/saving budget. Those less than $1,000 airfares might work if you are flying from a hub but not if you are flying from elsewhere. My pre-pandemic experience has been similar prices to Douglas' fares.

"The idea here is that my accommodations, train tickets, and museum tickets will all be paid for in advance"

I think this year has taught us all not to pre-pay for anything unless it's an amount you can afford to lose. In your above statement...yes to prepaying train tickets if you are getting low advance purchase fares. No to pre-paying hotels even if it saves you a few $$/££/EE. You'll want them to charge your CC either at registration or departure. No to prepaying museum entrances/museum passes until close to your travel time. The shape of museum entries and the status of Passes (thinking particularly about Paris) may change before your travel dates of 22 or 23 so you'll want to monitor the forum in the future before you do any purchases.

Fun to plan isn't it?

True, Badger, but in normal times you don't always need to change
twice. Usually there is a train from Basel all the way to Interlaken
Ost from whence goes the train up the hill to Lauterbrunnen.

Thanks for the update. There are also if I'm not mistaken trains from Basel to other places in the Oberland as well.

You should keep your trip simple. Fly into London and take the Eurostar down to Paris in 3 hrs. or so.
Then take a budget European airline to Venice from Paris.
It's about 150 miles, and an easy train ride from Venice to Florence.
Then catching a train down to Rome is easy. Fly home from there.

These are all big tourist cities, and you can easily catch local tours out of all of the cities for 3-4 days--different tours. Note: Versailles is a must. Pisa out of Florence is not worth the effort. You'd do better to take in Siena or San Gimignano and Volterra. There are as many great sights to see in suburban Rome as there are within the city--many day trips/tours.

As far as budgets go, we do not travel on a budget. My wife and I travel extremely thrifty--staying in lower price hotels and B&B's. We're not foodies, and just eat what our hotel desk clerk suggests. We deal with the Visa bill upon our return. We actually travel 2 weeks cheaper to Europe than our friends in the U.S. that go "to the beach" for the same time frame.

This looks like a great itinerary. I wouldn’t change anything. You’ve got a great budget with plenty of wiggle room. David had good suggestions for Eurostar from London to Paris and flying from Paris to Venice. Depending on when you end up traveling, you might want to consider starting in Rome and ending in London (for instance in June - I’d start south and work north in the hopes of more manageable weather).

Please note I fly from a Major Hub of Delta and still costs more. I can take a Flight from Chicago to Detroit on to Europe and pay less then Flying on the same aircraft from Detroit, Air Fare is unpredictable unless you have been studying a given route and even then it can surprise you. Add in the pandemic and whatever comes out of that and better to budget high.

If you can find another 3N, stay in Italy since you expressed interest in Pompeii. From Florence you could take the train to Naples for those nights, see the city including the superb archaeology museum, day trip to Pompeii and Herculaneum, maybe find hiking in Ischia. In Florence, the Uffizi is excellent for paintings, but for sculpture the Bargello is my favorite with the Museo dell'Opera del Duomo not far behind. The Pitti Palace has some good stuff too and you see a palace as well. There's a wing of modern art - not what you'd expect. It seems for the Italians, modern is 1815-1915 :-). Some very good impressionists. The Academia only needs an hour or so.

We will go to Europe again in 2021 (Xmas time) or 2022. We will spend almost nothing for airfare.

We use the Chase Sapphire CC. It costs $99/year, but is a great card. It enabled us to spend $2.37 for airfare for both of us in 2019 (at least from US - Athens and Amsterdam - US). It also has a $0 transaction fee on foreign purchases.