First time family travel in europe

Jill, As this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door as that provides a lot of good information on "how" to travel in Europe. Use the country-specific Guidebooks for more detailed information about sightseeing, hotels, restaurants and transportation. A few comments and questions, listed in point form..... > When will this trip be taking place? > Unfortunately, the trip from Avignon to Milan will be a full travel day of at least eight hours. > The easiest lake to get to from Milan is Lago di Como and more specifically the small town of Varenna. Travel time is 1H:03M via Regionale (DON'T forget to validate!). > I'd suggest staying in Venice, as it's beautiful and unique, especially at night when all the "day trippers" have departed. > The trip from Venice to Salzburg will be at least 6 - 7 hours, and may involve a Bus as well as train. You can see the transportation options by using the German Rail website. Good luck with your planning!

Honestly, I don't think this would be an enjoyable trip. Too much moving around, too much packing up and moving from place to place. This is especially true if it's your first time, and your unfamiliar with navigating in these countries. I'd suggest that you cut out one country. To decide which, talk as a family about what you prefer to do on your vacations. Do you like outdoors activities, mountains and lakes? Or an urban environment, with museums and cultural sights? Or both? Specifically, you could spend much more time in Paris, Provence, Venice, in terms of places that most people love. The lakes region of Italy just does not click with me - we've been several times, and I'd choose most other areas of Italy over that. I think it's because we prefer city/cultural things and mountains where we can hike. While, and I love Tuscany, but I like that area for the combination of historical sites, wine and gorgeous scenery. If you go to Venice (an amazing city; we just re-visited for the umpteenth time), stay IN Venice, and spend at least 3 nights. If you plan to stay in Avignon and use a rental car to explore the area, make sure your hotel is located in a spot that's easy to get in and out of the city from. When planning your time, think in terms of nights, not days. A two-night stay somewhere gives you only one full day, plus parts of two other days. Not much time for any location. As already pointed out, some of your travel times are quite long. Also, what time of year do you plan to take this trip - that could effect which locations are the best (for that time of year).

Jill , wait, think, a two night stay in a place is only one full day. Aren't the places you want to see worth more then one day, and how much can a person see in one day? Seriously, with kids , slow down . This is like "type A" travel, you are trying to cram too much in as far as i am concerned and I have travelled with an 11 yr old and a 13 yr old. Kids usually aren't wild about packing up and moving every two days, and then some of your travel times are long. You have six destinations in what will basically be 20 days, I don't count arrival or departure days and neither should you. And then there is the first day or two of jet lag to consider. Also, I assume you realize you really need a car to explore Provence , but for other places a car is a liability.. For twenty days, I would choose max of 4 places and actually SEE them instead of a tour of train stations in Europe.

You don't necessarily have to stay in Milan to explore the lakes of Northern Italy. Close to Verona is Lake Garda, the biggest and IMHO most beautiful and interesting one. Instead of 2 nights in Milan you could stay 5 nights in Verona and explore the region from there. Lake Garda is good for 2 days (beautiful towns, some nice beaches, and the mountains are great for hiking), and Venice/Padua/Vicenza are are less than 2h away.

I agree you are doing too much, not spending enough time in places and going to too many cities. Is there a reason you have chosen all of them? I personally recommend you divide your time between Paris, Provence, and Venice (and stay in Venice, not Padua/Verona). Expensive but worth it. Fly into Paris, drive or take the train south to Provence, fly to Venice (from Nice?) and then fly home from Venice. (or go in opposite direction) I have not been to Salzburg or Munich (and am sure they are wonderful too), but I think your kids will really enjoy Paris (3 nights is really too short a time there) and should be amazed by Venice. Whatever you choose to do, have a great first time!

I agree this is too much train (and packing and unpacking) and not enough sightseeing. A group of four first-timers is rarely nimble, either, and shouldn't require itself to be. You've got 3 major geographic regions in your plan: France, northern Italy, and Germany-Austria. Choose any 2, and add a day or 2 to each. I'm not saying you can't touch all these bases, just that you will have a better trip if you don't try to. My other logistical advice is that if someplace interests you (lakes, Venice), stay there. Not an hour or two away.

I agree about staying in Venice. When the daytrippers leave, it's a different place until the next morning. If you spend any time in Milan, your kids might enjoy taking the elevator to the roof of the Duomo for a close encounter with the gargoyles.

Good for you, Jill, that you've already learned the value of open-jaw flying. I agree with all the others who say you're trying to cram in too many destinations. If you eliminate Salzburg, you might be able to fly home from Venice. We once did that, at little or no extra cost over the Milan/SFO price, with a change at JFK. I should think you'd be able to do the same to PDX.

Have you looked into flying between any of your destinations? Book on Easy Jet far enough in advance (and keep your luggage to a minimum) and it can be quite reasonable. With kids that age, I'd suggest staying in Paris longer and then flying to a destination in Italy. Skip Provence and spend more time in Paris and Italy (two destinations my kids love). Definitely stay in Venice if you can afford it. It's a fun place to be as a family.

I agree with the majority that it is too much especially for kids that young. I would suggest either dropping Paris and starting in Milan or save Salzburg/Munich for another trip. When we traveled with our sons at that age we covered much less ground and actually planned no activity about every four or five days just to rest and recover. Remember they will not have the same interest in seeing old sites as you will.

Hello everyone, thank you all for your thoughtful and very helpful comments. We have reduced our locations to visit. Will start with 5 nights in Paris. Will finish with 3 nights in Venice and probably fly out of Milan, spending the last night in Milan before our flight home. Having a hard time with the middle of the trip... Debating over Avignon as we have concerns about enough child friendly activities. My husband suggested Chamonix over the lakes region in Italy as he thought this looked like more fun for kids. I was set on doing 2 different locations in Italy (my favorite) so looking for something else besides Venice. I neglected to say my husband and I have been to Europe before (Florence, Tuscany, Rome- but will bypass these for this trip) Open to all your thoughts on the middle of the trip that will be kid friendly with not too much travel time between destinations. thank you, again,
Jill

Jill:
It would be much easier if you'd fly from Paris to Venice on a budget air carrier and bypass rural France. For sheer alpine beauty, the scenery in the Lake Como/Lugano area simply cannot be beat. After Venice, you could rent a car and ramble through the Dolomites and Northern Italy and turn the car in at the Milan Airport. Most roads are easily negotiated in Italy. And by the way, rooms are very reasonable around the Venice train station. You can get anywhere in the city from there by foot.

What time of year are you traveling? For kids that age, with locations sorta between Paris and Italy, I would recommend a vacation on the Cote d'Azur (we had a great apartment overlooking the Med in Cannes LaBocca from which we were able to explore Nice, Antibes, Monaco, Cannes that didn't cost that much). One of my kids' favorite vacations ever. If you want Alpine beauty, and you're there in summer, I'd recommend the Avoriaz resort area in France. Apartments are totally affordable, and for only 2€/person/day you get a pass that gets you unlimited entrance into the indoor water park, ski lifts, mini golf, trampolines, and a lot more. With minimal hiking, you can ride ski lifts all the way to Switzerland. We vacationed there this summer (kids 8, 11 & 12 at time) and they are begging to go back. Other than that, I'd push hard for Rome. I had been there before, and loved being able to share it with my family. Tons of stuff for kids to do, and you can always bribe them with gelato for things you want to do that they don't!

I agree with Pat. Although I haven't traveled to all of these places, I leave you with the piece of advice that RS gives regularly: plan and travel as if you know you are coming back. If you do it right, you will love it so much you will make sure to come back. If you do it wrong (i.e. pack too much in) you will end up hating the trip and wonder why so many people rave about the place. Better to see a little than rush past a lot. Just my opinion. Happy Travels! :D

Jill, There are many options for filling the middle of the trip with some "kid friendly" activities. Here's one more suggestion. > Paris > Train to Lucerne (~4H:45M, minimum 1 change) > Lucerne - Touring - Museum of Transport - it's fascinating and your kids should enjoy it (I sure did!)
- Trip to Mount Pilatus - Boat Cruise on the lake - See the famous "Lion of Lucerne", which Mark Twain referred to as "the most mournful and moving piece of stone in the world". Your kids may enjoy researching the history of it. - Walking tour to learn something of the history of the city? > Train to Venice - shortest trip I could find was a departure at 08:18, arriving Venezia Santa Lucia at 14:40 (time 6H:22M, 1 change at Milano Centrale). While it's a bit of a long travel day, the scenery should be enjoyable. The change in Milan is only 15 minutes, which is reasonably short. When you walk out the doors at Venezia Santa Lucia and see the Grand Canal, you'll really know that you're in Venice! The Guidebook has good information on the best Vaporetto to get to your Hotel. You could possibly fit another location in France between Paris and Lucerne. One possibility would be the Alsace region, staying in either Strasbourg or Colmar (my preference is Colmar). You might enjoy seeing the magnificent Cathédrale Notre-Dame in Strasbourg, and the unique astronomical Clock. Cheers!

Our kids have I know that you'd rather have two places in Italy, but given that you're starting in Paris, the two first ideas that come to mind are some time in the Loire Valley, visiting chateaux, or Provence. In Provence, staying in either Avignon or Arles (smaller, easier to get into and out of), there are a number of ancient Roman sites, as well as other interesting places like Les Baux. If you really want to visit two places in Italy, our daughter's two favorite destinations are Venice and Rome. Not on the way to Venice, of course, but you could easily take a discount airline from Paris to Rome.