First Time Europe Itinerary Help :)

Since you would be looping back to London using ground transportation and want to get as far south as Rome you might want to consider night trains where possible or plan on burning 1-2 days taking long trains back to London.

If it were me I look at the following route:
London, Eurostar to...
Paris, Thello over night train to...
Venice, day train to...
Rome, Overnight train to...
Munich, day train to London.

http://www.seat61.com will be a great resource for you.

That is already 5 destination in three weeks so you probably only have room for 1-2 small town stops before it gets too busy. I'd suggest a small town in Northern Italy between Venice and Rome (Lake Garda is closer to Venice than Como and just as charming) and another in Bavaria (and Alpine option like Garmisch will give you your mountain experience).

DJ

Thanks DJ! I just looked up Garmisch and it looks amazing thanks for that suggestion! And thank you for all your advice! I'd hate to miss Belgium is there any way I could fit it in?

I'm sure you could squeeze it in at the end. Head to Brussels from Munich instead of London then take a local train to Brugges. You can get from Brugges to London in one day by train. At this point you are looking at 8 stops in 3 weeks. Next step for most people at this point is to start writing down the number of nights at each location and ID the travel days then start making the hard decision of where you can/can't go.

Re-post a more detailed itinerary like that and you will get plenty of responses.

DJ

Hi Cortney. You have discovered the major problem with planning a trip to Europe - too much to see, too little time. This should become your mantra: I can't go everywhere, I can't see everything. I can enjoy everywhere I go, everything I see. This is your first time, inherent in that statement is that there will be others. It's also possible that your GF will discover that she can indeed manage a longer flight next time.

You should plan to spend your first night and your last night in London. That does mean one more hotel change but you don't want to be far from your departure airport and take risk missing your flight.

Do not underestimate the amount of time you use to change locations. Plan your timing wisely. You have to pack, go from your hotel to the train station (allow time for traffic and to navigate the train station and find your platform) then to your next hotel to at least drop your luggage before you start sightseeing. Either buy your train tickets well in advance (often with sizable discounts) or buy them a day or so before you leave. There can be long waits to buy tickets, even at machines. If you leave first thing in the morning, you can go directly from your hotel to the train, but you'll lose 1/2 day of sightseeing. I find that late afternoon or evening is a good time for a train, so I can rest and relax after a full, or nearly full, day of sights. You can buy food in advance, or at the train station, and have a picnic meal on the train, with as much beer as you like. You need to have time to relax - 3 weeks of intensive sightseeing, packing/unpacking every 2-3 days, getting used to new surroundings, finding your way on the buses, metros, trams with signs in different colors and languages. You'll need time to do laundry, shop for necessities, stuff like that too. All of that can be very stressful and put a strain on your minds, bodies and relationship. For 10 days, a fast-paced trip isn't bad. For twice that long, you need to build in a slow day now and then.

Night trains can be good if you can sleep on them. They may make frequent stops which can wake you, even if you generally sleep well. If either of you is a light sleeper, then losing a night's sleep in the middle of a fast-paced trip can be debilitating. If you don't think you can manage overnight trains and a short flight is out of the question, then Italy is simply too far to include.

Depending on how far you go into Europe and how many places you visit, you could take Eurostar into Paris and back from Brussels (stay in Bruges or Ghent), or vice versa.

You can get to all your destinations, but try for maximum number of nights (count those instead of days). You will spend lots of time traveling. I would rather spend eight hours on trains than fly, so I understand your friend's problem. Use the long train rides to rest, read up on your next destination, look out the window, time goes by quickly.

A trip is not all about sightseeing, especially with a friend. So use your transit time to your advantage - it's not a waste of time.

Thank you Chani and Zoe. Great advice from both of you. Thanks for taking the time to reply. My girlfriend and I are going to plan out a rough itinerary tonight, one including Italy and one without Italy, although it may break my heart hahaha. It's true that we can't see everything and we may have a more enjoyable trip if we choose to visit countries closer together. But since Italy is on our bucket list we may have to sacrifice something else. When we come up with something, I will post the itinerary here and hopefully will get more great advice :)

A great train resource is The Man In Seat 61. Since there's so much information on his site, it can be overwhelming. But, since he's London-based, he has detailed instructions for getting from London to anywhere in Europe without flying. For instance, here's his Italy page; scroll down (or click the interactive map on the top right) to see how to get from London to Rome or Venice: http://www.seat61.com/Italy.htm

A 24 day trip for me equates to 23 nights away from home, with one of these nights spent on the plane to Europe. So that leaves 22 nights - just enough time to tick off everything on your wishlist.

Fly in to London - 4 nights
Eurostar to Paris - 4 nights
TGV to Zurich for Luzern - 2 nights
Train to Lake Como - 2 nights
Train via Milan to Venice - 3 nights
Train to Rome - 4 nights
Fly to Brussels for Ghent/Bruges - 2 nights
Eurostar to London - 1 night
Fly home from London

Now, of course, Florence is a glaring omission - 2 nights here would perhaps be at the expense of Luzern and Rome, taking a night from each.

For the flight from Rome to Brussels, look at Brussels Airlines flight SN3176, departing FCO Rome Fiumicino at 10:25, arriving BRU Brussels International at 12:40.

Thanks Harold and djp_syd!

I am now considering all options. My girlfriend and I are in the process of slashing Italy entirely and saving it for another year when we can explore more in depth. After some long discussions we are now considering doing London, Paris, a short stay in Cochem to see a couple of Castles, Amsterdam, Bruges and Ghent. So no mountains and no Italy there but we will see if that changes again! Hopefully we can settle on something soon.

Hello cortneywagner. For traveling from Paris to Cochem in Germany, ride in a railroad train from Paris to Koblenz in Germany, and ride in a train from Koblenz to Cochem.