First Europe trip. Please Help!

Jared, As this is your first trip to Europe, my first suggestion would be to pre-read Europe Through The Back Door before you get too far in your planning. It will provide you with a lot of good information on "how" to travel in Europe. I'm sure the group here will have lots of suggestions, and the first comment you'll likely get is that you have WAY TOO MANY destinations for a 30 day trip! If my math is correct, you've specified 14 locations to visit in a 30-day time frame, or an average of ~2.1 days each with no allowances for travel times between them! When planning your trip, keep in mind that you'll lose the first day in travel times and the last day will be spent on the flight home. You'll arrive in Europe the day after you depart, and will probably be jet-lagged for a day or two after arrival. A few comments on your proposed Itinerary... > Amsterdam to Paris is very easy by train, so a flight would NOT be a good idea as it will take longer (and be more of an annoyance). > For the "south of France", you've specified "South France, Provence, Cannes, Nice and Monaco". I suspect you'll need to cut some of those places. You can visit Monaco on a day trip from Nice, and I wouldn't bother with Cannes. > Travel by train will be MUCH quicker than using rental cars, and will be a more efficient use of your limited travel time. Good luck with your planning!

Jared, I too agree that you have a lot of sites for a one month trip. My big question (and only real concern) is why Paris, Barcelona, S. France in such short order? Barcelona seems best to do on another trip to Europe in the future. I also agree that Nice is a great base for seeing a few S. France cities by short train trips. We often go to Europe for a month in the summer (teachers) and usually do not go to more than a region or 2-3 countries at most. We have bought Eurailpasses from the RS travel store when we added up the cost for the longest train travel (use the DBahn website http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en) and then purchased point to point to tickets for shorter routes. We have often times found out (even last summer in the UK) that when traveling with a group, you can buy group point to point to tickets on the spot for about the price of 1or 2 regular fares. Just get your party of 4 together at the ticket window and ask. Three summers ago we bough a 3 country Saver Eurailpass (we were traveling with a sister-in-law) for our train from FRA to our Swiss destination. In the middle of our 1 month stay in Switzerland we took a one week trip to Rome with the ERPass then used point to point tickets for our shorter jaunts hitting other Italian cities on our return trip to Switzerland. At the end of our stay in Switzerland we wanted to do some family genealogy in the very northern part of Germany so we went from our Swiss base using the 3rd segment of our ERPass. Our final day of the ERPass was getting back to FRA for our flight home. Use the train website mentioned above to help you get a better idea of how long travel takes between your cities and where the greatest costs might be so you can see if a ERPass + point to point tickets make sense for you. Have fun planning, one of the greatest joys of travel.

Jared: Ken has made some very good points. Let me add a few thoughts to his. Barcelona is an out-of-the way destination by train. While it may look close to Provence on a small map, the train from Barcelona to Arles is an all-day event. My recommendation would be to cut Barcelona and use that time to add to the other spots on your itinerary. I assume you are planning to fly "open jaw" or "multi-city", which will save you the time and trouble of backtracking to AMS. For Provence, you might want to split your time between the true Provence and the coast. Base in or near Avignon, say, for three days with a car. Then drive down to Nice, returning the car there. Using Nice as a base, you can easily do most of the towns on the coast by train or bus.
You might investigate the possibility of flying Easyjet or another discount airline from Nice to Italy rather than doing the long train ride....tickets on Easyjet for Nice to Rome one way are cheap if bought now. From Rome you could go by train to Florence, then Venice and then home from Venice or Milan. The CT is somewhat more difficult to reach, and so you might consider cutting it out on this trip.

A lot of traveling for sure....but you will see a lots of the country. I would prefer to cut out a few places, and spend more time in the areas where you travel. But, with that said I would make a couple of recommendations for the "south of France" Vaison La Romaine, in the same general area as Avignon, but smaller and more fun for me at least. Le Eveche, a b&b in the old city is fantastic. There is a market every Tuesday in the main town, well worth experiencing....there are markets in different days in different towns...be sure to get to at least one. Caux, France, Near Montpelier, on the coast. Small B&B there, The Stone House Inn...likely one of the best anywhere. ...and it is near the sea, beaches, fishing, etc. as well. Barcelona is actually off the path you want to take. Have a great trip.

I echo what others have said about considering to cut out maybe two or more destinations. My vote would be for the CT. The amount of time you have allotted here is not worth going to it and in my opinion the area is a bit overrated if you are going to stay for such a short amount of time. Spend your time better in Tuscany since you'll have some beach experience in the south of France.
Also, I know you want to a car to get to get out of "touristy" areas, but I would not recommend using cars to get between places, but rather use it to get around one region, such as Tuscany. Have fun!

Jared: Your plan is pretty good assuming the locations where you have NOT indicated a number of nights are daytrips from a base location. i.e., "Tuscany" for 5 nights is fine if it's in one or two locations, not 5 nights each in a different place. It is exhausting to change lodgings every day or two. Really! If you want to feel a little of the culture we are visiting, and not rush from one tourist spot to the next you need to stay fewer places. In Tuscany, perhaps 3 nights Florence and 2-3 nights in another hilltown (we liked Montalcino) and rent a car to see Volterra, San Gimignano, etc. If you cannot spend at least 2 nights in the CT, don't go; 3 nights is better. Venice deserves 3-4 nights. Good on staying 4 nights in Rome. She is magnificent! As others have suggested, drop Barcelona. I am partial, but I'd suggest adding those nights to Italy.

Thanks for the replies so far. I have looked at Europe through the back door. We do plan on packing light, using carry-ons. And yes, fly open jaw. We may also be able to add a few days to the trip to make it closer to 35 days. Where to add them? Maybe we could cut Amsterdam and start in Paris. But it would be nice to see, even briefly. I understand Barcelona is not exactly on the path, But it is one of our top picks. When traveling the South of France we do not need to spend nights at all the places listed, those are just ideas. I was also thinking, base around Nice or another spot (suggestions) and venture from there. Same goes for Tuscany. Base somewhere and do day trips. CT was also high on our list.
Is traveling from CT to Venice by train, and then Venice to Tuscany by train or car an acceptable way to go. I was thinking a car from Venice to, and while in Tuscany would be nice, to hit other towns. Thanks so much. You all are great....jared

Priorities should trump logistics when possible, so the question for you is how to best include the logistically awkward Barcelona. I would consider two strategies. First is flying, if you can find cheap flights. You could make it the last leg of your open-jaw trip, or sandwich it in between Nice and Italy. This has the logistical bonus of letting you ride France's fastest train from Paris, saving you half a day. If you do this you might shift your Italy itinerary around depending on where the cheapest flights take you, e.g. you might start in Venice not the CT. The second strategy would be to re-jigger your itinerary to include the time for a road trip. There are fabulous places between Paris and Barcelona, but you'd need a week to appreciate them. Plus, since you would be returning to France, you'd avoid the two-country drop-off problem. I cannot tell you what you should sacrifice to carve out this time, if you do. Two days in Amsterdam is, imho, not at all a bad way to begin a trip like this. Note that Provence and the Cote D'Azure ar really two places, far enough apart that you can't day trip from Nice to Avignon, for instance. You could easily spend 5 days in Provence alone.

Furthermorebased on our own 5-week trip to Europe: Especially if you add more time, I think you are going to want to vary the pace of your trip. A long trip gives you the marvelous opportunity to hunker down someplace for a whole week, getting to know it a bit while recharging your travel batteries. I don't mean that you are rushing about unrealistically, in fact you have obviously resisted that temptation. Nonetheless a month has different rhythms than a shorter trip. We put a week-long rental in the middle of a trip of similar length and it really enhanced the entire experience. Saved some money, too, since rentals can be cheaper than hotels. Finally, why not split up for a week or so? A month is a long time to spend with four people, and maybe you have different priorities. You could plan to go separate ways for a week, then have an exciting reunion, swap stories, and continue on together. Have a blast!

Jared, You said: Is traveling from CT to Venice by train, and then Venice to Tuscany by train or car an acceptable way to go. I was thinking a car from Venice to, and while in Tuscany would be nice, to hit other towns. Train between the CT and Venice whichever direction you choose is the way to go. As another poster suggested, you might do well to fly into Venice from the South of France, take the train to the CT, where you do not need a car. (No car in Venice, either!) Since you do not need a car in Florence (if you stay there), take the train from the CT to Florence. At the end of your time in Florence, rent a car (at the airport most say) and take off for some hilltowns. Pick one as a base, use the car to explore. The Slow Travel website has some great scenic drive ideas for those based in Tuscan towns.

If I were planning such a journey I would check train times between locations, if you were considering flying to some locations add at least 2-3 hours to the flight times. High speed trains between major destinations can be 2x faster than one that is local so try differing scenarios. It doesn't make seens to have a car in any city. Likely a car is best only in South of France and Tuscany. Perhaps rent in La Spezia after leaving Cinque Terre, do your Tuscany loop, return it in Florence before going on to Venice or Rome after Florence. Watch out for ZTLs in Italy many people report receiving expensive ticket months after for entering these no traffic zone and for driving in bus lanes they never noticed. Since Barcelona is the most out of the way perhaps make that your final destination and fly from Rome or Venice there and then back to SF. Also check where connection for direct flight to from S.F. likely Amsterdam, Paris and Rome and build around that.

If driving in the south of France in summer expect traffic. Lots.

"....my first suggestion would be to pre-read Europe Through The Back Door..." Ken, you are a great poster here, but can you explain how pre-reading is different from reading? No answer required.

Michael 1, Although you don't require an answer, perhaps it would be a good idea to clarify my wording. What I was trying to convey is that especially for first time travellers to Europe, it's a good idea to read ETBD during the planning and before going to Europe (hence the term "pre-reading"). It provides an excellent tutorial on "how" to travel in Europe, but it's not a book that I would pack along. Perhaps I should use different terminology? Cheers!

Jared, Based on the the information you've provided, you might consider something along these lines (assuming you have 35 days): > Flight to Paris > Arrive Paris / CDG - 5 nights (a 2-day Paris Museum Pass might be a good idea, depending on what you want to see) > Train to Arles (Time ~4H) - 2 nights (while there you could explore a small part of Provence, such as Pont du Gard or Les Baux de Provence. Possibly rent a car for one or two days?) > Train to Nice (Time ~4H, 1 change) - 4 nights (there's lots to see in Nice, but it's also good as a "base" to visit Monaco / Monte Carlo, Villefranche or Eze - Bus from Nice to Monaco is €1 each way, as I recall) > Train to Cinque Terre (Time ~6H, 2 changes) - 3 nights (travel time will vary slightly depending on which of the 5 villages you're staying in). > Train to Venice (Time ~5.5H, 2 changes) - 2 nights (note that your destination will be Venezia Santa Lucia station) > Train to Florence (Time 2H:03M) - 2 nights > BUS to Siena (Time ~1H:15M - Bus is better as you'll be dropped in the centre of town) - 4 nights (this would be a good "base" to explore other nearby hill towns such as Montalcino, Montepulciano, Pienza, etc. Rent a car for one or two days as required - see following post for information on driving in Italy). > Train to Rome (Time ~3H:15M, 1 change) - 5 nights (you might consider a day trip to Orvieto - ~1H by train). > Flight: FCO / BCN (Time 1H:50M - check Vueiling.com for details - cost as low as €39) > Barcelona - 4 nights > Flight home That leaves a few "free" days which could be allow slightly longer stays in some locations. Cheers!

Jared - cont'd..... IDP INFORMATION One important point to note is that for driving in Italy, each driver must have the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which is used in conjunction with your home D.L. These are valid for one year, and easily obtained at any AAA office (two Passport-sized photos required, which in some case is offered at the issuing office). Failure to produce an IDP if requested can result in fines on the spot! Have a look at This Website for more detailed information. You may also want to search other Posts here regarding the Zona Traffico Limitato areas that are becoming increasingly prevalent in many towns in Italy. EACH PASS through one of the automated Cameras will result in a €100+ ticket! A GPS along with a good Map would also be a good idea. Be sure to also give some thought to the question of CDW. If you accept the CDW offered by the rental firm, it will be expensive but will provide "peace of mind". Some "premium" credit cards provide rental vehicle insurance, however I've found this to be somewhat complicated so I just accept that offered by the rental firm. Check the Car Rental section in Europe Through The Back Door for further information.

Jared, just a note to my PM... While in, Venice, take the time to go to Vincenza. Beautiful magical city.
In Italy Vietri and Ravello

Jared, Based on the info in your PM, another option.... > D1: Flight to Paris > D2: Arrive Paris - 5 nights > D3: Paris > D4: Paris > D5: Paris > D6: Paris > D7 (morning): EasyJet flight, CDG-BCN - 4 nights > D8: Barcelona > D9: Barcelona > D10: Barcelona > D11: Train to Nimes (~4H:45M, 1 change) - Use this as a base OR choose one of the other towns in this area - rent a car for a day? > D12: Nimes > D13: Train to Nice (3H:41M, 1 change) > D14: Nice - day trips as mentioned > D15: Nice > D16: Nice > D17: Nice > D18: Train to C.T. (using Vernazza, ~6H:11M, 2 changes) > D19: C.T. > D20: C.T. > D21: Train to Rome (~ 4H:46M, 1 chg. at La Spezia) > D22: Rome > D23: Rome > D24: Rome > D25: Rome > D26: Train to Siena (~3H:29M, 1 change in Chiusi) > D27: Siena (good base to explore hill towns - possibly rent a car for one or two days) > D28: Siena > D29: Siena > D30: Bus to Florence (~1H:45M) > D31: Florence > D32: Florence > D33: Train to Venice (2H:03M) > D34: Venice > D35: Flight home Re: trains - there are numerous options. I chose trains that I might use. You can research at bahn.de and choose those that fit best. Regarding "beach time" in Nice, the beach is composed mostly of pebbles, so may not be too comfortable. At least one place along the Promenade des Anglais offered lounge chairs, but I don't know the cost. Monterosso (CT) has a good beach and Vernazza a small harbour. There are many possibilities. Adjust days to your preferences. Cheers!