First Europe Trip

Hi Ranu -
Hate to say it but you simply do not have time for 4 countries/6 cities let alone adding any more. If you try to do that, you'll spend most of your time - and a chunk of money - getting from one place to another and seeing very little at all. Does your 12-13 days include your travel day to Frankfurt and your travel day from Rome? How many nights do you actually have to spend in Europe, and what are your arrival/departure times?

I highly suggest pre-booking accommodations as again, that would be sightseeing time you'd waste running around finding hotel rooms. You want to get there, know where you're going, drop the bags and hit the streets.

A campervan would also be of no use to you at all in the cities...especially in Italy. Depending on what destinations your itinerary is whittled down to (you really must cut some things), you may end up flying between some cities and taking trains to others.

Ranu, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but as one who has traveled extensively in Europe in addition to having lived there, your plan is perhaps a little over ambitious. Yes it can be done, and some may suggest it, but I'm afraid you'll come back only with memories of train stations, airports, and hotel rooms rather than memories of places, people, activities, food, etc. My suggestion with only 12 days (or is it 12 nights -- makes a big difference) is to pick out three (or four at the most) places you really want to experience and confine your trip to those places. With regard to your specific questions: #1 Yes, make reservations. With this being your first trip, there will be enough stress without worrying about finding a place to stay. #2 Yes. #3 Paris, Venice, Florence, and Rome at the most -- perhaps even dropping one of them depending on your interest. #4 See answer #3. #5 Trains are great. Even planes such as Easy Jet can cover big distances cheaply. #6 For the time you have available you definitely don't need / want a car or camper. One thing to remember is that is almost always takes much longer to get from Point A to Point B than anticipated. It's not just the actual travel time, but the waiting time, the check out / check in time, time waiting in security in airports, and etc. This may be a trip where less is really more.

I agree with the other comments - the geography you are trying to cover in such a short time is not realistic. I'm curious why you're landing in Frankfurt when none of your top city interests are located in Germany. If starting in Frankfurt is inevitable and cannot be changed (to Paris, for example), I would pick a city of interest in Germany (hopefully nearby) to start with since you'll be facing jet lag. Otherwise, you'll be immediately taking another journey to yet another country (this makes no sense to me).

With 12 days, you have time for 3 cities (4 at the most, but that is really quite rushed since you have travel time between them to think of. Each large city deserves at least 3 full days, ideally more.) Forget the camper van idea, and definitely book lodging ahead. I would pick 3 cities and do a reality check of how long it will take to get between them and by which mode - your current cities are simply too many and far apart. It seems that one of your cities is already "set" - you're flying back from Rome, so plan on spending at least the last 3 days in Rome. You'll likely have to spend at least one night in the Frankfurt area, unless you're ready to hit the road after you land.

Just curious...how long does the flight take from India to Frankfurt? I imagine you have a direct flight?

Under the circumstances, I would eliminate Chamonix. With the short time you have, there is a strong possibility that it could be bad weather, and those magnificent Alps will be invisible.

Sounds like Paris is a must, and you are flying home from Rome, so that is a given. What to do in between?

I would say your choice would be:
1. Paris to Nice to Florence to Rome. All by train.
2. Paris to Venice by plane, then to Florence to Rome by train.

Suggestion, since you arrive in Germany, from Frankfurt airport, take the train along the Rhine River to Cologne for your first night. Specify via Mainz to make sure you get the train(s) that go along the river rather than the fast train which bypasses it. That will give a bit of relaxation after the long flights and views of the famous Rhine Gorge and the Lorelei. Next day you can get a fast Thalys train direct to Paris in 3 hours and 20 minutes. Give Paris at least 4 nights so you will get 3 full days there.

Your potential French destinations are horribly spread out and will eat up much more time than you are imagining. Here's how the first part of your trip might look by train, based on your top interests:

Frankfurt Airport - Paris: 4-5 hours, difficult to pre-book because of flight uncertainty, 130 euros per person if bought upon arrival.

Paris - Chamonix: 6.5 - 7 hours

Chamonix - Nice: 10 hours

Nice - Florence: 7 - 8 hours

As you can see, there are three all-day trips (by the time you deal with hotels on both ends and transportation to and from train stations), during which you may see nice scenery, but nothing at all of the cities you list as your top priorities. You'll need to whittle down your target list a lot.

You're committed to Italy because of your return flight from Rome. Italy is fabulous. I'd suggest heading straight to Italy and spending all your time there, or perhaps making one quick stop in Germany first. If France is your highest priority, you need to limit your Italian visit to Rome. Unfortunately, Nice to Rome is another long train trip (about 9 hours), and I can't find a bargain flight. Another possibility would be to hit Paris and two of your Italian cities, flying from Paris to Italy.

Here are some websites that will help you figure out the transportation possibilities:

Flights within Europe: Skysanner.com. Flights can be very, very cheap if bought very, very early, but it's important to travel light so you don't pay a fortune in baggage charges. And make sure you know how far the airport is from the city and how much it will cost to get there!

Train schedules: Deutsche Bahn. For train fares you need the website of the appropriate railroad (so SNCF for France and TrenItalia for Italy; TrenItalia insists on the Italian spelling of each city).

Buses and combined transportation modes: Rome2Rio.com (follow links for more precise bus info)

For four people a strategic car rental might save money, but you'd need a larger-than-average car, and it's usually important to rent and drop off in the same country. One-way fees across borders are typically very high. If you book your train tickets (but not for day of arrival) as soon as they go on sale, you can save a great deal of money, so the car suggestion may make sense only if for some reason you can't purchase your train tickets early enough to snag the deeply discounted fares.

A comment about the weather: The weather can be very changeable in April, especially north of the Alps. Take a look at historical weather data day by day on a site like wunderground.com. I don't know what Chamonix would be like at that time of year. If you're unlucky, Paris and Germany could be dreary.

Edited to add: Sam's suggestion to start with a relaxing and beautiful train ride down the Rhine to Cologne is a very good one if you're not arriving in Frankfurt at night. It's a short ride, so buying last-minute tickets will not be horribly costly.

I'd suggest heading straight to Italy and spending all your time there, or perhaps making one quick stop in Germany first.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Florence + Rome + Venice + whatever city you choose in Germany will definitely take up all 12 days, with no time to squeeze in more. At least those three cities in Italy make sense and are not terribly far apart - they can easily be reached by train. If for some reason you have extra time, these are good bases for quick day trips like Verona. I travel on a fairly aggressive schedule either alone or with another person, and I would not pick more than 4 bases for a 12-day trip (3 would be ideal, but 4 is bareable). When you are traveling with other people, you have to build in a little more slack time because everything takes longer.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Florence + Rome + Venice + whatever
city you choose in Germany will definitely take up all 12 days, with
no time to squeeze in more. At least those three cities in Italy make
sense and are not terribly far apart - they can easily be reached by
train.

Exactly what I would recommend as well as Frankfurt is already set in stone.

If you do try to drive for part of the journey, remember that all drivers require a mandatory (in at least France and Italy) International Driver Permit (IDP) which as I remember it is quite difficult to obtain in India and must be obtained prior to departure from the home country.

Also all the countries you are proposing to drive in drive on the right. That could be quite a learning experience if you are not used to driving on the "wrong" side.

If I had to do such a trip and want to get the most out of it I would do:

Frankfurt am Main -> Heidelberg -> Strasbourg -> Schwarzwald -> Bodensee/Konstanz -> Lucerne, cross alps at Bernina -> Verona -> Firenze -> Roma

All done by train. Ten stops. Germany is covered, France, Switzerland and Italy. Much to see for more than a day at each of these. All different from each other. And if I ran out of time, I easily can skip half of these because they are all in one line of movement.

Frankfurt am Main -> Heidelberg -> Strasbourg -> Schwarzwald ->
Bodensee/Konstanz -> Lucerne, cross alps at Bernina -> Verona ->
Firenze -> Roma

I'm exhausted just looking at this.

I'm exhausted just looking at this.

Yes. It's a "one city a day" trip. But at least it's a feasible one because all the places visited are in one line and each stop is about 3 train hours away from the previous. So you have about 10 hours a day for exploring the area, 3 hours for relaxing, and 8 for sleeping.

Hey, one could even exchange Verona for Venice and it would still be feasible without being the whole day on the train and see nothing. And, as written, you can easily skip half of these without jumbling the itenerary.

The "relaxing" time would all be spent packing/unpacking and getting to and from the train stations.

But I will grant you that at least a lot of those destinations are fairly small and reasonably suitable for one-day visits. It's not as problematic as an itinerary that strings together one-nighters in places Paris, Berlin, Vienna, Venice, Florence and Rome.

Correct. The OP had a completely unrealistic idea how to put all the destinations she wants to see into 12 days. My goal was to give her a realistic plan which is still tight.

To be fair, if someone asks if she should rent a camper, I expect her to be up and ready to go within 30 minutes, so the three "sloppy hours" for checkin/checkout and getting on the train are plentiful.

To be fair, if someone asks if she should rent a camper, I expect her
to be up and ready to go within 30 minutes,

But these are 4 people traveling together. I can pretty much promise how myself and Other Half can roll but not others who may be with us unless we've done quite a bit of traveling together before.

I agree with jjj's itinerary but minus Switzerland and Rome.

Rome is set by the OP, I think.

I can't believe all the people recommending going to Paris. That is geographically out of the way. Arriving in Frankfurt, departing from Rome provides you some great places in Southern Germany, or Switzerland, then Italy.

Also advising a new comer to Europe to rent a camper van doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. Camping is fine but not for a someone that has never been to Europe and driven on the more congested highways with a larger vehicle. Also, while camp grounds are available, they tend to be away from the cities, then creating another issue. How do you get from the camp ground to visit Rome, Venice, etc.?

I suggest going south from Frankfurt and either going all the way to Switzerland or stopping in a place like Heidelberg, Germany or Strasbourg, France. Then plan a couple of day in Interlaken or Lucerne, Switzerland. Move on to Venice for a couple of day, then finish up with three days in Florence and five in Rome.

Sounds like the OP's interest is similar to Henri IV.

“Paris is worth a mass.” (“Paris vaut une messe.”)

Or worth a detour.

Geo, the OP herself brought the campervan into discussion. We all strongly disadvise. Not only it is impractical, the massive foreign drop fee for letting the rental company return it to Frankfurt would render it as much expensive as hotel accomodations. That's one of of misconceptions the OP has about travelling in Europe. The other one, how long travel between the cities on her list will take and how many great sights she let passing by, unexplored, wasted. But okay, that's why she asked.

Ranu, I think there are two reasonable options you have. Either make a big city tour: start in Frankfurt, take the train to Paris, fly to Venice,again take the train to Rome, and stay about 3 days in each city. Or do a train tour on a straight line as I stated above, and if you want it a bit more relaxed, drop half of the stops (select by yourself).

I don't see where you are arriving from so I don't know how exhausted or not you might be upon arrival in Frankfurt. I'd use Frankfurt as just another layover. If you really want to see Paris, I'd get right back on a plane in Frankfurt and fly to Paris. I would keep this to three locations at the most or you are really likely to never want to speak with the other couple again, ever. Getting to Paris, day one is essentially used up. I count by nights... So spend 5 nights in Paris, which gives you 3 functional days. Take the overnight train to Venice, buying separate compartments per couple. The hours are perfect for departure and arrival with a nice bit of time to sleep---but check to make sure this isn't one of the night trains that went on the chopping block this year. Otherwise fly...not as romantic and arriving early am in Venice by train would be lovely. Stay 2 nights in Venice. Train to Rome and spend the remaining time there. You have a lot to learn for your first trip. The learning takes time. This being your first trip and traveling with 'friends' would be crazy to be moving all the time. Get to know 3 major cities better than running around not seeing numerous places, and take day trips if you get bored...which I can't imagine, but.

You've already learned the first lesson. Either pick what you want to see and fly there OR get a cheap flight and let that dictate what you see, not try to do both. I'm sure there must be something in Frankfurt, but it is not visible on my list.

Frankfurt is worth touring, I would not write it off. I've flown through there and spent some time in the city. Since you'll be landing there, I would at least take the rest of the day and walk around the Old Town (Altstadt) and take in some sights and spend the night instead of immediately jetting off somewhere else. I assume you have a direct (6 hour or so?) flight from India (Mumbai?) to Frankfurt, correct?
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g187337-Activities-Frankfurt_Hesse.html

India. Don't know how I missed that!

Hello Everyone,

Appreciate all the valuable responses, as the responses received by all of you has made us re-think and re-plan our itinerary. Since we have limited time in our hand we at least intend to cover 5 destinations this time.
Having taken all your suggestions into consideration we have made some changes in the earlier plan.

Sharing current plan below for any further suggestions-
Understanding that the weather may be quiet unpredictable in Apr, we are now planning to visit Europe in mid May. We have added 2 more days in the earlier trip duration and we will hence have 14 nights and 14 days for the trip(excluding travel from and to India). Since arrival and departure cities cannot be changed, we are now planning to go to Paris from Frankfurt immediately after landing in Frankfurt to avoid any delays in starting the trip.

Our proposed itinerary would be:
Day 1: India(Delhi)-Frankfurt direct flight landing at 18:40, then earliest possible means to Paris
Day 2,3,4: Paris
Day 4: Paris-Amstradam
Day 5,6,7: Amstradam
Day 7: Amstradam-Zurich
Day 8,9: Swiss Alps(mostly Mt.Titlis)
Day 9: Zurich-Venice
Day 10,11,12: Venice
Day 12: Venice-Rome
Day 13,14,15-Rome
Day 16-Rome departure at 19:40-India

Please suggest:
1. How can we travel across the above cities? We are planning to fly between cities where air tickets are cheaper and also want to travel by Euro rail to add it to our experience.
2. What would be the fastest and cheapest way to reach Paris from Frankfurt after landing at 18:40?
3. Booking trains seems confusing, as there are several types of trains (ICE, TGV...) with different types of bookings (reservations required, not required,Sparpreis Europa Frankreich, pass holders, etc). So need some suggestion on how to book train tickets
4. Best way to explore these cities? (Via tour companies/rent a car or bike etc.)

Thanks

In order to save time, consider flying between most of the cities you listed. East Jet is an inexpensive option to trains and much quicker. One exception would be Venice to Rome and in that case you could take the train for the experience.

Given you land at 18:40, you should spend the first night in Frankfurt. Too late to get a train. There might be a flight, but you can not be certain that your flight will arrive on time, how long it will take to get through immigration and get you luggage. If the next day is a week day, you can get a direct ICE train at 5:58 next morning, 6:58 if it is a Saturday or Sunday. That will have you in Paris in under 4 hours. You will need to wait until 3 months before your travel date to buy tickets at www.bahn.com.

Paris to Amsterdam use the Thalys train. www.thalys.com to buy tickets. I think up 3 months before travel, but could be more. 3 1/4 hours and trains are every 2 hours.

Amsterdam to Zurich fly. Stay in Luzern, you can buy a ticket at the airport train station when you arrive.

Zurich to Venice fly. Direct trains from Luzern to Zurich airport. I know Swiss Air does this because I've done it.

Venice to Rome train. Trains pretty much every hour. Takes about 3 3/4 hours. Tickets again about 3 or 4 months in advance. www.trenitalia.com. Use Italian station names, Venezia S. Lucia, Roma Termini.

You can buy a vaporetto pass for the time you are in Venezia. Roma is very compact, you can walk most itineraries. Rick Steves has some very good podcasts for self-guided tours of cities, and also suggested walking tours in his guidebooks.

Othere (including Roma) may have daily ticket options for public transportation (valid either for 24 hours or expires on midnight on date of first use; some have 2- or 2-day passes as well).