...with the recent negative turn for posting topics (best/worst Florence, what I hate about (fill in the blank, why visit (fill in the blank), what do you hate about (fill in the blank)), and the apparently ever-popular unexpected pregnancy thread). Some of these are obviously topic title choices meant to generate interest in the rather banal questions.
Just had to vent.
Sounds like you need a vacation. ;>)
Maybe you need to lace your coffee with a little "relaxant." There is a certain amount of craziness rolling around these days and not just here.
I agree with you, Zoe. It started with the innocent-enough, unfortunately-titled "one thing in England....", but others followed with negativity, whether trolls or real.
And Philip, I'm retired and just returned from a six week vacation. ;--) Frank, dear Colorado resident, what kind of relaxant? If we come here, it's to escape the craziness. I'm with Zoe!
Edit: Paul, that was a really good subject, and indeed people could learn a lot from it. It didn't seem negative to me. Zoe and I are referring to the increase in "what I didn't like" posts.
Many of those have been correctly identified as troll threads. I don't read them. I did start a thread about being too cheap and having an outcome from it that you don't expect. I think that we should make sure that travel newbies who come here go away with the benefit of our experience, not being warned off or too concerned. Travel is fun. My wife and I really enjoy our trips, and are happy to help others with our experiences.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm having one of those days, I guess.
Paul, I thought your thread was balanced and helpful.
Philip, you are right, I do need a vacation. 170 days and counting,...
Bets, thanks for the support, and I agree, this is where I come to escape some of the craziness. But the ratio of sane to crazy has been shifting to favor craziness, all over the place and not just here. True, Frank.
Maybe this will help?
🍷🍷🍷
Bets, a nice Café corretto con grappa, perhaps?
Zoe, you've got 11,477 posts as of 12:30pm EST; that is a LOT of time spent on a forum. Maybe it's time to take a break.
@Keith, does that hotel next to an abandoned asbestos factory have en suite bathrooms ? There might be some who would prefer that to a bath-down-the-hall hotel in a more upscale area. ;-)
@Zoe, keep on postin' !
What really bothers me are the really snarky replies to first time posters, whose questions or statements may be awkwardly posed. For example, the woman who said she had found the "best" skirt for travel. Truly, I didn't really believe that it was the "best" skirt - but you don't have to be a word bully about it.
I too just wanted to vent.
Continental.. 11,000 posts over how many years.. I think you need to put things in perspective when you make such a statement.
How long have you been on this forum.. you already have over 300 posts.. now lets times that by many years..
I find it helpful to know what a person didn't like on a trip or tour. In regard to the comment about whether a hotel is in a safe area, I do not find that bothersome. Europe is a big place. Just like anywhere, there are some places I feel more comfortable about safety than others.
I added to that thread on safety. I think that it is important to keep safety in mind, while realizing that tourists in Europe, much of S America, many places in Asia and Africa, are in no danger. Going to specific places is not advised. Each city has areas I would be leery about, and this includes, and is led by, US cities. Keep your eyes open.
Zoe, as a diversion, watch this little video from Rick Steves' brother, Slick.
Not criticizing posters who ask questions that reflect their concerns, someone who has not traveled to a particular city might very well have concerns about safety, how to travel around, etc.
Just seems that over the past few weeks there have been topic titles (that was what my original post pointed to) that are rather dramatic in a negative way. And sometimes the question under the title is one that is not nearly so dramatic. Even well-traveled people may
Anyway, thanks to all for participating in this discussion. Continental, I started posting when this forum was called a "Helpline". And 11,000 is only a number.
And Kathy, keep 'em coming!
Just personal opinion but believe that the current political atmosphere is adding to the crazy issue. Being crazy is becoming the new normal. Being blunt; crude; "telling it like it is !"; fake stories (news); etc., is just adding to the idea that less restraint in opinions is acceptable behavior. Much worse on some of the other travel sites. Hopefully -- this too --- shall pass.
Personally I prefer a little Kahlua in my morning coffee. And some days - a lot !!
I have certain threads I'll participate in and a lot more I don't. The threads you're describing, that start with a negative premise, are usually ones I'll ignore. I've seen others I thought might be interesting until I scroll through some responses to find posters demeaning others - I skip those too.
I also avoid itinerary questions unless the location is specific. When someone starts in London, flies to Rome, then Amsterdam, Berlin and Stockholm the only advice I can offer would be to turn that into three separate trips and focus. Itineraries are personal choices that I can't help with unless they are talking about which town, in a limited area, is the best base - and then only if I've stayed there.
I'm here to give my opinion based on my personal experience. I don't expect the poster to take anything from it other than one person's experience and opinion. When I ask a question on this site, I prefer a variety of opinions both positive and negative; especially if those opinions give a little detail about why they feel that way.
I question the belief that just because one is a tourist they are safe in Europe, etc. Stuff happens, and I think it's okay for someone to ask and find out how things are in a place they've never been to before. My husband was on a mission trip in Africa and the group was attacked by 8 gunmen. This was in a country that was "safe" for tourists. It happens. It has not stopped him from going back but my point is asking questions about safety should not be discouraged on a travel forum where someone is seeking information to be an informed traveler. Now there is my vent.
Philip—great idea, but could you send it to me with Grand Marnier instead if grappa.
Just seems that over the past few weeks there have been topic titles
(that was what my original post pointed to) that are rather dramatic
in a negative way. And sometimes the question under the title is one
that is not nearly so dramatic.
That makes sense.
Meanwhile, happy hour for all!!
🍷🥃🍹🍺☕️
Continental.. 11,000 posts over how many years.. I think you need to
put things in perspective when you make such a statement. How long
have you been on this forum.. you already have over 300 posts.. now
lets times that by many years..
Yes, Pat, maybe too much time given the sentiment of frustration. The "perspective" is found in the words the OP used which are summed up most succinctly in the thread title as "Fed Up". No room for misinterpretation.
When I create a thread that I'm "fed up", you can remind me of the # of posts I've contributed too if you like. My 300+ posts have been shared because I enjoy this forum. I've been reading this forum for over a year; I began participating this past spring. Most people I've seen here contribute much more than I do; I consider myself a novice still.
I'm sure Zoe enjoys it here too -- maybe just not recently! It's always good to take a break. Relax, Pat.
Continental, I started posting when this forum was called a
"Helpline". And 11,000 is only a number.
The name of the forum then sounds like a college or high school rap line or a venue for those seeking tech support! "Travel forum" has a more specific direction. Was there a vote taken among the members to change the name to its current nomenclature?
As far as I know, the name change from "Helpline" was done without a survey, but it reflected a changing of the times. No emotional attachment to the name change (I prefer travel forum, actually), but I used it as a time marker.
And Frank, I agree with your assessment.
I tend to be a roll with the punches kind of traveler and thanks to my own research and reading the forums here there's not much I'm surprised or dismayed by in the European countries I've visited. There's usually a learning curve of some kind--transit, currency, customs of the people--but I like that, makes me a stronger traveler. The one time I was truly put out and irritated was in Prague--absolutely loved the city and I'm probably ready for a return, but I visited after 8 peaceful and pleasant days in Poland and the total mob scene everywhere was just such a rude shock after that, even though I was prepared for it. I have since learned to put the challenging cities at the front end of my trips, when I've got plenty of vim and vigor.
Christa , don't feel let down about Prague , parts of it are , indeed , overrun . If you are able to grasp the vagaries of it , you will undoubtedly have a better reaction . Areas of The Old Town , Charles Bridge , and Mala Strana can be overwhelming , but a little research in future will change that . Post again prior to a return , and help will be to hand .
So interesting christa, as friends just returned from a trip that included Amsterdam and Prague, but they found Amsterdam to be the mob scene, while Prague is where they settled into an apartment for a week of concerts, jazz, and art.
Does anyone know if those old east, west, north, south categories from the helpline still exist? I learned a lot about other countries having the countries lumped together, though the All Topics does expose the readers to other places and issues, but not as intensely. Was that too negative? Hard to be positive with daylight getting shorter and what’s happening otherwise. Kathy, pass a glass over here, please.
Well, Emma made me laugh out loud tonight. I call that a win for tonight and this topic. 😆
I think I have missed the topics you've mentioned, but I've felt the same negativity from many RL friends lately about...well...everything.
Vent away. It's good for the soul. ;-)
Zoe.
The frivolous posts bother me at times also, but I just tend to ignore them. I'm currently enjoying a glass of Cab. Merlot (or two), so in a few minutes those posts will bother me even less.
Cheers!
Sorry you're feeling that way, Zoe and Bets. Me too, but I put a lot of it down to to the end of summer and the nights lengthening.
And less traffic here means that some folk feel the need to fill the void with something, anything....
I do think it is the first time we've had a post about arriving home pregnant but I bet it happens more than we see.
Just keep rolling along.
And posters, if you can keep it upbeat and pleasant, like the positive Italian traffic ticket post yesterday where there was no moaning and praise for transferwise, it will be appreciated....
Happy travels (sorry my number is big)
Zoe, maybe this will make you feel a bit better about the Negative Nellies lately?
Take a look at the Frommer's main forum categories page. Oy. A mighty sad state of affairs, that.
Happy Hump Day, everyone!
I agree with Frank.... It seems that the current climate makes people feel that they can say anything, not censor themselves, even attack people and dare I say it, not even think :(
In some cases, 'negative' reviews or 'warnings' are worth it, in some cases I think it is just people who have not travelled much and may have some newbie type questions/comments/concerns
I skip most negative posts... some are pretty clearly trolls ( the pregnancy one), some are just venting sessions not really looking for feedback and in some cases, I figure why add fuel to the fire. In many cases, I want to say the same thing: if you are looking for things, bathrooms, transportation, food, shopping hours, people, customs etc to be 'just like at home", then stay home. Easy fix :)
Wow. I went to Frommer's and looked - didn't know that they had a forum. A total disaster - counterfeit money, TV scams, everything that is deleted from RS fora shows up there. Amazing.
RS fora are well-moderated, and generally free of scum posters.
I don't belong to that one, Paul, but look into what's going on in some travel forums I'm not a member of now and again. In their defense it looks like they're undergoing a system upgrade but still, THAT much spam in 24 hours?
Oops, I guess that was sort of negative but, well, pleased to be HERE versus that alternative. :O)
Steven and Bets--I find that return trips anywhere are always less hectic because I've usually gotten the major sites out of the way and can then focus more on deeper exploration of neighborhoods and that's what I'd do with a return to Prague, I know with my original 4 days I just touched the surface of what's there. I did stay smack dab in the middle of old town, steps from the square. I was in Amsterdam this April and chose to stay out of the fray in the Museum Quarter, a very good choice because the main areas were indeed crazy and I found much more enjoyment wandering the side streets along the canals, especially the 9 Streets area.
Keep in mind that negative and positive perceptions tend to be in the eye of the beholder. I used to say to my students that if you are not prepared to accept any answer, then don't ask the question. I think sometimes the perceived negative responses come when someone asks a question but only wants one answer. Generally a confirmation and not a true questions. All in all is this is a pretty mild board. And I don't see a lot of the negativism that others claim to see.
Pass a glass over this way, friends!!
Christa , well said ! It's the same for us .
I do so appreciate the generally upbeat attitude here. I have tried participating in other forums but the negativity and judgmental attitudes put me off.
I do think it is OK to state when one's experience led one to be less-than-impressed somewhere, and in the Trip Reports we are invited to rant if need be.
Thank goodness our moderators keep the spam and trolls at bay (at least during weekdays)!
traylaparks - I laughed when I read your post! We had our RS travel meeting this morning and that is exactly what I was talking about too! I am not a constant poster on the board, this is the reason I don't post much because of the "snarky' replies. Sometime we just can't get out the correct way to ask a question or comment. Please be nice to all!!
Just Venting too!
"Thank goodness our moderators keep the spam and trolls at bay" - Laurel, there is a major troll posting on page 1 as I write.
Gunderson they come back on Monday and clean it up. Not so elsewhere....
Laurel, then they must have accidentally missed the post I was referring to. It's been hanging in there for two weeks.
They don't always come back on monday and clean it up. Sometimes they just let it sit for days.
And even if they did clean up things every monday, I think Rick Steves' company has the resources to deal more effectively with this - they just need to care. Seems pretty obvious they don't. That's their choice, but it doesn't reflect well on them. You know, they're not some little mom-and-pop shop struggling to barely make ends meet; they're a well-established, very successful business with plenty of financial wherewithal.
The fix is really easy: if they cared, they would have someone working the forums 24/7/365 (like most companies that have an online presence do), not just an occasional glance during weekday business hours.
The spammers obviously know that from Friday afternoon through at least monday (often much longer), there's no curation at all, and nobody minding the store. In this day and age, it shouldn't come as any surprise that this lack of attention is being exploited.
The problem will continue to get worse until the company decides to put a stop to it.
They don't always come back on monday and clean it up. Sometimes they
just let it sit for days.
Hmmm, dunno about that, David. Admittedly there IS a problem with the weekends but as far as I've seen, they mop up pretty well on Monday morning. It's also easier for them to see when it's a "question" post that shows up on the front page or at the top of a forum list. Spammers/advertisers/guideline violators are more difficult to ferret out when their posts are buried in the middle of ongoing threads.
And that's where we come in? See them; report them; staff investigates and either deletes or lets the post stand as they see fit. Some posts which look to be disingenuous may not be due to language barriers, lack of forum experience or other reasons. i'm sure it can be a grey-area call sometimes.
Weekend spam also tends to stay up on the front page longer at this time of year when pre-Holiday trip planning/forum activity slows way down.
I agree with Kathy. If there's a poster that you think is not legitimate, report it. That's what I do, and the ones I've reported all go away. I don't think we should expect anyone in authority to find all the problems (on this forum or anywhere else, virtual or real) without the community's assistance.
Responding to Dave and others that may want to know more about our approach to moderation...
I fully acknowledge that we aren't perfect and I accept the criticism. However, it's a bit of a stretch to say that we don't care. To first respond to the assertion that "the spammers obviously know that... there's no curation at all" on weekends, it used to be that way several years ago, but that is now incorrect. Without getting into detail, a high percentage of spam is removed on weekends, but some does indeed make it through. I think most of you know that we'll always take the time to remove anything in our forum that doesn't belong. As our forum is huge, we don't always see it ourselves, so please do use the Report feature. We review every single report.
I would love to have someone working the forums 24/7/365 as suggested. While you're right that we aren't a mom-n-pop outfit anymore, we're not at the scale you expect either (not even close actually -- please contact me privately if you don't believe it) and it's a big leap to provide that kind of coverage. Please trust that we do indeed care and we'll always work toward improving how we run this forum. We have some updates coming soon and you'll be able to see some of them as they're released.
Regards and a Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate it (even if that's a bit late for my Canadian counterparts :).
