Ever considering a cruise again? WSJ investigative report

We will cruise again when a vaccine is available. No real difference from train travel, flying, and staying in big hotels. However, we have cancelled our trips for the year or so. I read somewhere this past week that cruise bookings for '21 was at near record level. I expected to see a lot of good deals for '21.

I read the whole article and watched the below video, which was interesting because from the perspective of one of the passengers (big cruise ships looked far more unappetizing than I imagined - slot machines, congo lines, goofy concerts/ music, and all around cheesy stuff - and no one my age to be found). It's clear that the large ship leadership acted irresponsibly toward their employees and passengers and "kept the party going" and sent ships out even after ample reports signaled trouble. I think people who don't want to hear or see bad news will just ignore and discount any negative reporting and go right back to their hobby as soon as they're able...we are all biased in favor of our "favorites" and can't see straight (this forum is proof of that). I'm glad this mode of travel never appealed to me, so no loss here. I hope this business cleans up its act both on the health front and the environmental front in a meaningful way, or be sidelined for good. Comparing it as "the same" as train travel (or even planes) in terms of environmental footprint or spread of viruses is wishful thinking and dishonest. Large cruise ships and smaller ships on the Nile in Egypt were specifically linked to several COVID clusters.

https://m.wsj.net/video/20200501/050120cruise/hls/manifest-hd-wifi.m3u8
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew-11588346502
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/cruise-ships-coronavirus/

What a nightmare for the crews that are still stuck on the ships - guardian article - crews stranded on cruise ships

Agnes, I think you are right, and I think a lot of those same people will not do proper due-diligence when selecting a brand with which to cruise.

Even though we are not currently traveling, I am still reading posts/reviews/articles, because it is my opinion that a corporate culture generally (key word) does the right thing or does not do the right thing. How customers are treated in one situation may be telling of what might happen in a different circumstance. So, be it a guided tour provider, an airline, a small cruise ship or expedition ship (our favorites, as we WILL not travel on huge ships), seeing how customers have been treated and what decisions have been made during these weird times speaks volumes to me. As is said with rental property or employment, often past actions/performance is one of the best indicators of future performance. I think that also applies to travel providers.

There will likely (hopefully) be a vaccine for Covid-19 sooner or later, but there is a good chance of yet another pandemic (or just serious illness) in the future, or there could be food safety or cleanliness issues.....or situations that might cause a cruise line to make risky decisions with weather or engineering/safety issues.........

So, for me, what the guiding light is for a company in one circumstance speaks volumes of how decisions might be made in another serious circumstance. Safety or immediate revenue....which tips the scale and drives the decision?

No real difference from train travel, flying, and staying in big hotels.

After reading about all the cruise ships that were denied ports to disembark their passengers and the stress those passengers went thru just waiting and floating around out there not knowing when they can finally step foot on land, cruising is not like planes, trains and hotels. At some point a plane will have to land somewhere, trains will have to stop at a station. Apparently not so with cruises. You can be out there floating around against your will for months.

Mega-Cruising has never appealed to me. We’ve done small ship expeditions with National Geographic and that’s about as big as I want to go. But now that I know one can be stuck on a ship indefinitely, no thanks to any of it.

My husband is a Coast Guard vet, so I've never seriously considered a large cruise due to his horror stories. I don't think people realize what a risk they're accepting with regards to health during normal times. A very small cruise, particularly one that's flagged in the country you're traveling in (like a fjord cruise in Norway) would be both closer to the experience I'd enjoy and what level of risk I'd be willing to accept once travel resumes somewhat normally, but that's also quite expensive.

The cruise ship industry is always dealing with issues, but keeps cruisin' along. This is true of most large industries. Cruise ships have dealt with fires, contagious illnesses, senior citizens dying of natural causes, injuries, suicides, drunks, storms, mechanical failures, capsized ships, etc..

Coronavirus was also transferred by airlines, possibly cargo ships, etc..

Corona virus hit rather fast. I think it was difficult for industries, societies, and governments to adopt protocols quickly for dealing with it. So little was known about it, lack of reliable and practical testing, etc.. Even now, businesses are trying to understand how to adjust for it.

We’ve taken 6 cruises , although last one was over 14 -15 yrs ago . First one was a honeymoon - over 30 yrs ago and while fun - we didn’t like the line ( Carnival) as it seemed like a week long cheap food and booze cruise .
We then took a few Princess cruises and enjoyed them - especially when we brought our three kids along !
However we turned off cruising doe about for 10 years and then I did the final one with my then 11 yr old daughter ( a special mom and daughter get away as dad took the boys hiking .

We’ve had no interest in returning to mainstream cruising - however a friend did a Paul Gauguin cruise in South Pacific and highly recommended it / small ship - and pricey - maybe one day .

What I would consider doing , but not till we are less capable , is a Europeon river cruise !

I would go on another small Lindblad/NatGeog ship but not on a big ship which to me is over 350 passengers. However, we prefer land based independent travel and probably will be staying on dry land for quite a while.

Although I have cruised several times (small ships and mid-size ships) and mostly enjoyed the experience, I have canceled two upcoming cruises we had planned. I have read several articles in the NYT’s and WA Post about how the cruise industry continued on after the first incident in Japan (I do not have a WSJ subscription). I am greatly disappointed in the way that the industry put profits before health & safety. Cruising is a big business and the ethics of this industry showed through during this awful time in the world. I believe the industry is in dire straits. People are being told they will have long waits until money due them is refunded. I am 30 days into a 60 day wait for my refund, but if bankruptcy happens, I may never see that money. We will return to travel when it is safe to do so, but will rely on a combination of independent travel and tours from organizations like Rick Steves. I actually have fond memories of being on the water and seeing many lovely sites from the deck of a cruise ship. But, with their negative environmental footprint and handling of the current crisis, my travel plans will not include cruise ships in the future.

Key point of my post is the suggestion that you find a copy of today's WSJ so you can read the article.......just some really good information to either underscore your current beliefs or cause you to consider changing your point of view. Knowledge is a good thing.

Answer to your question is "absolutely not". I don't understand why anyone got on a cruise that began after the Diamond Princess fiasco.

Even if your library is currently closed, chances are that it has greatly expanded their online information sources.

Both the Houston and Harris County Public Libraries have all kinds of newspapers and magazines available full text if you log into your account.

(Can you tell that I am a retired librarian?)

Em

Yeah, cruising is absolutely not the same as trains and planes. Cruises often last a week or more, which is of another magnitude. We may cruise again after a vaccine is available but yes, there is a petri dish sort of gross dynamic about cruising. There is so much that everyone is touching, and don't get my started on the tubs, pools, and anything with water. I've seen some things I wish not to discuss here.

The "health and safety of our passengers" over profit is BS. Sorry, but it's true.

My answer to your question is yes, I would consider cruising again, even after reading the article. My plans for my last trip to Europe include a one-way transatlantic cruise, either a regular Cunard crossing NY/London or a Mediterranean repositioning cruise and then a one way flight in the other direction (with several weeks of traveling in between). Just something I've always wanted to do and since it will be my last big international trip I still want to do it. It was planned once a couple of years ago and circumstances intervened so it was put off until this year. Now it will be postponed to either 2021 or 2022 depending on when I feel comfortable enough to travel again, regardless of the mode of travel. Of course it will depend a lot on if there even is a cruise line operating in that time frame - not sure when or if it will be considered safe to cruise again. But, I'm not automatically writing off any mode of travel until we see what happens as a result of the pandemic.

Thanks, Emily, for the tip on getting the article online from my library system. I was able to access the article (much of the same info I have read elsewhere, but I’m still incredulous when I read of the incompetence)! Even better, I now have a source for the WSJ. There have been a few articles in the WSJ that I wanted to read in the past, but did not want to pay for a full subscription, especially since I have one for the NYT’,s, WA Post, and the Atlantic. I absolutely love my local library and sometimes forget how much they offer. Kudos to Librarians everywhere!

Several of the responses indicate a bias against cruising which pre-dates the pandemic. And one has a comment that is simply ageism. Carnival mucked this up and I suspect, in many ways, they will pay. We enjoy cruising and look forward to returning when it is safe to travel. We do not travel with Carnival and will not. The more upmarket brands are distinctive in many ways and I suspect they will be even more so when confronting the COVID-19 challenge.

"I would go on another small Lindblad/NatGeog ship but not on a big ship which to me over 350 passengers. However, we prefer land based independent travel."

A big ship for me is any ship over 50 passengers.

We were on a Viking ocean cruise to New Zealand and Australia when the pandemic broke out in March. Australia closed it’s borders so our trip was cut short. Under normal circumstances we are very aware of washing our hands, etc. and personally stepped things up. We felt comfortable with the crew’s attitude and extra sanitation efforts. We were much more concerned about traveling through airports and the three flights (24 hours in the air) to get home.

That was six weeks ago and everything turned out fine. We signed up for another Viking cruise in July 2021. We like Viking for the smaller ships and no kids (no offense). We did not think we’d like cruising but it turns out that we do! However, we are not interested in sailing on a large ship with thousands of people. We plan to cancel a RS tour scheduled for Europe in October. Hopefully, we will be able reschedule that trip for next year too.

I have never gone on a cruise, I doubt I ever will.

Way back when I started traveling on my own (without my parents and other family members) I had thought of going on a cruise. Ships were still of a manageable size, people were not constantly getting sick from some bug or another, and it just seemed like a good way to spend a week. But then something happened that pushed the cruise industry into what it is today where you constantly hear of people getting ill (even before the current virus), the charging for almost everything onboard over and above the price of the cruise, the crowds aboard shown in promotional pictures from the cruise line, ill mannered passengers, the inflexibility of the cruise line when the passenger needs to make a change, and a laundry list of other things that just don't make it appealing to me anymore.

I did take the ferry boat on the RS Scandinavian tour. It is a large ship with cabins for sleeping overnight. It was very comfortable, everything was clean, the food was good, the crew was pleasant, and the scenery around the ship during the journey was fantastic. But it was only one night and I was ready to get off the boat as soon as it docked.

Is this the article? I could read it without a subscription. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew-11588346502

The Cruise Lines International Association said in a statement to the
Journal that the cruise industry was one of many businesses that
continued to operate in early March. “We know now that, tragically,
this virus affects every setting where people come together to
socialize and enjoy shared experiences, which includes cruise ships,
as well as restaurants, hotels, movie theaters, and the like,” the
statement said. “That knowledge will serve us well in the future.”

Carnival Corp. spokesman Roger Frizzell said, “It’s easy to look back
once you know the future and second-guess decisions made in the past.
Just like the rest of the world, we were responding in real time based
on the very best information available at the time.”

Clearly damage control statements from the industry but all in all I thought the article was pretty tame. Before I play the blame game with any industry I'm trying to remember the date when my moment of clarity about the dangers of the virus came and I suspect in hindsight I likely should have stopped doing some public things as well. Cruising is one of many methods we've used over the years and I'd have no problem cruising again once things are back to normal.

My enjoyment of cruises has been inversely proportional to the size of the boat. I did a big ship Alaska cruise once because my mother wanted to. It was nice enough but not really my cup of tea, and I have no desire to do it again. I did a river boat cruise once. I enjoyed it more than the big ship, but would not consider it my first choice for travel. I cruised on small, 12 passenger sail boats twice and found them absolutely delightful.

I appreciate, though, that big cruise ships are appealing to many people, and I am not going to shame people whose preferences are different from mine. Hopefully, someone will find a way to build and operate larger ships in a safe and responsible manner in the future.

Finally, I take serious issue with a previous assertion that a non-motorized sailboat, which doesn't even have electricity most of the day, has a bigger environmental footprint than a plane.

How is an "upmarket" company like Viking that advertises ships with "only 930 guests" so superior to an implied downmarket ship like Carnival as far as risk goes (for that matter, why should only high(er) paying passengers and related crew be protected from harm)? The dynamics are the same - closed space environment, lots of people from all over the world congregating together, sharing food and common facilities, and then potential to seed health issues to other passengers and at foreign ports (that includes the international crew). If it's reasonable to assume that social distancing is here to stay at least in the short term, how is ANY cruise ship going to adapt for that model this year or next? What will be different with that unique physical environment that makes is such an effective vector?

There were less than 200 health industry executives from multiple states and countries that gathered at the Biogen conference in Boston who shared food and congregated together at a hotel; yet it turned out to be a major COVID cluster, compounded by participants taking the virus home with them on flights (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/coronavirus-biogen-boston-superspreader.html). How is a cruise ship that different from a large hotel/ business conference gathering? They have more passengers, same worldwide potential, and many more older and vulnerable people than a business conference. I don't think luxury or expense will protect anyone from a virus, but it does give a false sense of security. If folks are willing to make an argument that upmarket or smaller ships are much different, then that implies that leadership and operational choices do matter. It's really hard to imagine how a Carnival CEO was caught off-guard by COVID. CEOs are paid a lot $$$ to understand both the opportunities AND the risks for their industry from internal and external events and to mitigate those risks (plus they've dealt with other viruses in the past, like the novovirus). That's why they cut their Asia cruises sooner.

I don't think luxury or expense will protect anyone from a virus, but it does give a false sense of security.

That remains to be seen. Having sailed on both ends of the price curve the higher end cruises have better staffing, what appears to be more attention to sanitation, less emphasis on buffets whichI think are cesspools. Whatever else needs to be done To make cruising safer will cost money. Mass market low end cruise lines don’t do this; they invest in water slides and such. This all may change but when we cruise again it will be with Celebrity, Crystal or others from mid market on up. And, BTW, the vast majority of cruise ships did not have COVID-19 and have not had norovirus. The exceptions make the news but there are thousands of enjoyable uneventful cruises each year. The OP’s question was will you consider a cruise AGAIN. If you’ve never been, what’s your point?

I watched the link that the female passenger made of several videos, documenting the cruise. Clearly, the cruise line made some serious mistakes.

First, I will say that with the coronavirus running through the World, cruising would not be my choice. We have a cruise booked for October 2021 and expect to make that one. Hopefully there will be a vaccine or some widespread immunity prior to the cruise.

Second, I don't belittle anyone personal opinions on cruising. I understand why some would be against cruising, even though they have never done a cruise.

Third, we have done 20 Ocean cruises with three cruise lines, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean and NCL. Personally, I would not cruise Carnival or Costa. Also, we have done 4 river cruises that are on small boats and very enjoyable. Cruising is a joy and we love it. We always meet great people to socialize with or dine. We love being out on the water and the many great ports that we visit.
A cruise ship is like a floating hotel that allows you to visit many ports and view scenic places without changing hotels.
Our cruise lines don't do a lot of conga lines. We never gamble, but we enjoy great entertainment in the evening, great dining and many other activities. We are retired and love to plan a land tour on our own prior to a cruise. We love taking transatlantic cruises one way, so we save on airfare and don't have to fly back from Europe.

Fourth. we look forward to cruising again, but clearly don't want to cruise until the coronavirus is no longer a serious threat.

Of course the vast majority of cruise ships have been free of viruses...no one disputes that. The point is what plans do they have in place when they do discover it in their fleet elsewhere or while onboard, and how do they react to protect their current employees and passengers? It's like a restaurant or food establishment which has served millions of meals with no issues whatsoever, and then all of a sudden has an outbreak of food poisoning (like Chipotle: https://www.businessinsider.com/chipotle-pushes-food-safety-culture-following-food-poisoning-fine-2020-4). Do they keep on going as usual and write it off as a blip, or do they do something seemingly radical like close the place down temporarily and disinfect and retrain workers (or re-do their operations) so that they have no new cases going forward? I think the key to ships being "safe" is not simply a matter of extra cleaning. That may not be enough, or foolproof. They need tools to accurately identify sick, contagious folks (in the case of viruses where no one has immunity) and to be able to truly isolate them away from others (or to prevent them from getting onboard in the first place). Meaning, not in their regular cabin so they can infect family members. That requires extra space and written protocols of how that person is to be treated, how they will disembark safely, and when....and what their passenger rights are, what employees' rights are, and what the remaining passengers' rights are when there are infected individuals onboard....and what to expect if a ship is not allowed to dock at a port (the story does state that some ports of call were not notified in a timely way that a sick person was onboard). Does something in writing like that exist right now?

Yes I have read the article - and many more - and yes I will still cruise. My November cruise is impossible, so come this fall I'll decide where to move that deposit. I'm currently looking at a Baltics cruise, or one that overnights in Ashdod (Jerusalem). Both are sky high pricing right now though so need to come way down before I can commit.

Second, I don't belittle anyone personal opinions on cruising. I understand why some would be against cruising, even though they have never done a cruise

You have a kind heart. Much kinder than mine. I have little patience for those who repeatedly criticize others legitimate ways of travel, such as RS tours, cruises, without any firsthand experience. We can all easily fall into that trap based on pre-existing beliefs, portrayals that confirm our bias, etc. Even Rick has fallen victim to that and he pretty much admits that. You can find his cruise video on this site and, hey, he unexpectedly enjoyed it. Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion about anything. But, I lose patience with livid negative descriptions of “what it’s like” from those who have actually never done it.

A cruise is the only decent way to get around SE Alaska.

I will consider going again, but the cruise lines need to prove that their health safety measures are effective. For me, the cruise is just a comfortable way to get between Alaskan ports.

I agree with Allen completely. Many posting would be far more useful if the poster posted what they know from experience rather than posting what they think they know. I don't think I would like an overnight sleeper train from what I have read but without the experience I would not post a single comment on the subject. In our earlier days of traveling with two sons on teachers' salaries, cruising was an inexpensive way to see a lot of Europe for us. And solved a lot of problems when traveling with two young boys. We have been on 12 European ocean cruises and two river cruises. Didn't get sick once and never felt particularly confined. Some of our best interaction with locals was on a cruise ship. Worked well for us. And will continued to be fine in the future.

A cruise is the only decent way to get around SE Alaska.

Not to be argumentative but I disagree with this statement. Of course it depends on what you mean by decent. We traveled to and around SE Alaska without a cruise and it was quite decent. We used day cruises, ferries, and small planes/float planes to get from town to town and to see the wildlife and scenery. Cost wise we came out ahead using this type of transport plus staying in some unique budget local hotels. The cruise prices were prohibitive for us on our puny budget, especially a cruise that went to the places we wanted to see. Now, to be totally upfront, this was back when there were only a few huge cruise ships so the crowds at the port cities weren't restrictive and I loved the cities in the evenings and early mornings sans behemoth cruise ships. This was the only time I went to Alaska but my traveling companion did take a subsequent big ship cruise there and she said she much preferred the way we did it. It's just a personal choice. If I were to go again now at my age and with lowered stamina I would probably opt for a cruise if I could find one in my budget. In general cruises are a more cost effective way to travel to many places, but Alaska - not so much.

A cruise ship with social distancing. How does that work?

A cruise ship with social distancing. How does that work?

My suggestions:

• No buffets.
• No self serve food or drinks of any kind.
• Less lounge chairs by the pools.
  
• Pool side tanning by appointment only and no exceeding your appointment window.
• Fewer people per tender boat when arriving in port, meaning less time on shore for some.
• One way hallways and stairs.
• Limited use of elevators.

I'm sure there are many more.

A cruise ship with social distancing. How does that work?

Not easy but doable. Mark has a list of good ideas. We cruised for many years when our children were growing up, just returning to it 2 years ago. We cruised to the Southern Caribbean on the Celebrity Silhouette in mid February this year, just before COVID-19 unraveled the world. The Celebrity solstice class ships are large but not as large as the mega ships. No conga lines, wet T-shirt contests, etc. This is not a Carnival type cruise. We are sedate cruisers for the most part so it fits our style. Social distancing would be possible with some changes. We book an Aqua Class cabin. They all have comfortable verandas and we spend a lot of time there. We start our day there with capuccinos we pick up at the uncrowded coffee bar. We work out every morning in the spacious gym; rarely crowded but that could be managed. The cabin class has it’s own dining room, Blu, with a lot of 2 tops. They could space those further apart and start with reservations (it is a walk in place). Lunch is in the main dining room and ample space to distance people. There is an indoor pool and we visited it every day. I can’t remember being within 20 feet of anyone else. We take the stairs everywhere. The challenge is mobility impaired folks, and there are a lot on ships. The elevators, numerous as they are, are often crowded. I don’t know how they could fix that. Shows-limit attendance to allow distancing. If a port requires tenders we usually don’t go-don’t like crowding onto little boats. Anyway, we shall see. We have a cruise booked to S. America on this ship in February 2021. I may switch that to a later date, maybe spring/summer 2022 and start with a return to Alaska for 7 days. I like the idea of testing the waters so to speak on a shorter voyage that stays in N. America.

When we returning to cruising it will be after a vaccine is available and social distancing will not be required. Back to the old times of having great evening conversations with our table mates. Next year hopefully.

Many posting would be far more useful if the poster posted what they know from experience rather than posting what they think they know.

Ok, here goes. We are independent travelers who were invited to join another couple on a VRC. They've been best friends since we were in the second grade together.

Overall it was a pleasant experience and VRC did a credible job, but it confirmed that cruising of any sort isn't our cup of tea. When Viking advertises on PBS, they show at most two couples out having a grand time. The truth is you are with 100 other couples skimming the sites with no chance at any port to spend quality time. You never interact with the citizens other than in shops where you buy trinkets. The food was barely above mediocre and for what you pay you could have a nice meal in Paris.

The passengers were nice for the most part, mainly retired school teachers and the like. However, there were just enough drunks and jerks to make for some negative experiences. The trouble is you're stuck with them for the duration. Viking is relatively upmarket, I can't imagine what passengers on junk cruises like Carnival are like.

I think the cruise market has gotten out of hand with bigger and bigger (and more polluting) ships setting sail. We spoke with our Walks of Italy guide who had been leading tours in Rome for 30 years. She bemoaned the explosion of cruise ship day trippers clogging the streets. She was very descriptive on how rude and obnoxious they were compared to regular tourists.

I hope this situation serves as a corrective action on the cruise industry.

We've been on a few Caribbean cruises, and I enjoyed them - wife less so. They're a good value and very relaxing. But I think the main effort cruise lines need to make is in how to deal with sick passengers medically and legally (i.e., medical screening and isolation) and by guaranteeing that non-sick people are not stuck on board indefinitely. Its the fear of getting stuck that seems to worry people more than the getting sick. You could justify closing all assisted living and nursing homes for being hotspots. The cruise business is more than the ships, its the port cities, countries' supporting tourist industries, etc., so the pressure to come up with plans that will allow reopening would be coming from more than just the cruise lines.

If for whatever reason, this threat abates, there wont be as much concern and cruise business will gradually return to normal. Hopefully, with a better surveillance system.

nope.. I have always avoided cruises as the thought of being stuck with 5000 people makes my skin crawl. My wife had almost convinced me to go on a short cruise before all of this.. But no never.

The only possible cruise I'd do is potentially an Alaska or Greek Island mainly because it is a better way of seeing those particular areas. Going on a sun cruise to the Caribbean and docking at tourist ports with and all the beggars and barkers.. Nope no thanks not my idea of a vacation...

"The only possible cruise I'd do is potentially an Alaska or Greek Island mainly because it is a better way of seeing those particular areas."

I agree, but do not do it on a mega ship. I can not speak for Greece, but we did an Alaskan cruise on a 44 passenger ship and it was delightful.

I'm a big cruising fan and will definitely cruise again some day. Will I be the first back on the ships? Nope. But I would definitely consider January 2021 onward.

I hope this situation serves as a corrective action on the cruise
industry.

Out of curiosity I checked the websites of several cruise lines for their Covid policies moving forward. I had to search to find most and they were just boilerplate statements about taking it seriously and working with the CDC and other organizations to improve safety, but no concrete steps. What every website did have though were deals galore to get you back on board, so I'm not sure how serious they are. The consumer is going to have to take action if they really want change.

I've cruised several times and enjoyed it every time but I will also need to see some serious corrective action.

I’m done cruising.

I’m done cruising.

Were you done cruising before the COVID-19 virus or is this due to the virus and/or the cruise ships reaction to it?

Nancy, I was pretty much done cruising a few years ago. I enjoyed every cruise I’ve done but decided I’d rather do more in depth touring on land. I got sick on my last cruise and was miserable. I noticed all the coughing the first day and thought I was being careful with frequent hand washing etc., but apparently not enough. Our cruise prior had NORO aboard so activities were canceled.
I know I can get sick no matter how I travel, but the Covid issue with ships being turned away from docking convinced me even more and I am done with cruising for sure.

My favorite cruise was to the Galapagos.

I will also need to see some serious corrective action

The corrective action to which I was referring was that cruising would be substantially diminished. No more bigger and bigger ships. Some lines should go away altogether. Places like Venice, CT and even Rome should seriously reconsider the consequences that cruise ships have on them. I would love to not have to see the hulking VRC ship spoiling the skyline of Venice on the VRC commercials.

Here's some food for thought: Working Conditions and more working conditions. Then there's this NY Times article and finally Top 10 Reasons Not to Cruise.

We cannot in good conscience support the cruise industry. When we travel, we stay in B&Bs, often in people's homes. We eat at local restaurants. The souvenirs we buy are handcrafted by local artists. We travel as close to the ground as possible. I think this is in keeping with the Rick Steves philosophy.

I’m hoping for Sept.

Places like Venice, CT and even Rome should seriously reconsider the consequences that cruise ships have on them

The consequences are money. They bring money. As long as there is money to be made, and a demand for the service, they'll find a way to stay in business. I'm a cynic, but I believe that in this world money trumps the right thing to do, and pushes out the people who can't fight back.

I recently received a phone call from the rep at one of our favorite small ship companies, and I told her we would consider sailing again when:

a) a vaccine is widely available and effective, and/or

2) we see in the news that Dr. Fauci is boarding one of their ships.......or ANY cruise ship for that matter :)

Suggested he be invited to be one of their Global Perspectives on-board speakers. She LOVED that idea and planned to send it up the channels.

Received an email from NationalGeo/Lindblad, and I made the same suggestion.

Seriously, when times are safer, what fun it would be to sail with Dr. Fauci and his wife :) But something makes me think that just will not happen ;o

Dr. Fauci:
“If you are an elderly person with an underlying condition, if you get infected, the risk of getting into trouble is considerable,” he continued. “When I say protect, I mean right now, [don’t] wait until things get worse, say ‘no large crowds, no long trips, and above all, don’t get on a cruise ship.’”

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4868772/user-clip-dr-fauci-cruise-ships
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/08/coronavirus-dont-get-on-cruise-ship-123718
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cruise-ships-coronavirus-anthony-fauci_n_5e64fd8ac5b60557280678fc

We enjoy cruises and when it becomes safe again we will cruise. We have done Viking, Azamara, Celebrity, and Oceania and enjoyed them all. One Viking cruise was a river one on the Danube. I prefer ocean cruises especially the Caribbean, We were on an Oceania cruise in March and all was safe on board. We heard the news of the virus when we were in the Atlanta airport. We started a cruise to South America in Miami and they did temp checks before we boarded.

Agnes, yep....I have heard him say that, which why I use him as the example of when we would feel safe...........sounded better than "when Hell freezes over."

We just do not foresee feeling safe on a cruise anytime in the next few years. And, even when there may be a vaccine, I would want to make sure two years went by after a vaccine is widely administered (as a one-time thing or an annual thing), just to make sure it truly does work. That same threshold would apply to just about any international (and pretty much domestic) plane travel.

But, that said, many of us have different risk tolerances. We will cherish the memories of the wonderful voyages we have enjoyed.

I agree with Maggie in that I would like to see the efficacy of a vaccine for awhile before taking a cruise. In other words if a vaccine is available in December I'll wait until summer to see how well it's working. Seems prudent. My parents were quite English. "Never despair" they would remind me. "Chin up my boy."

The consequences are money. They bring money. As long as there is money to be made, and a demand for the service, they'll find a way to stay in business. I'm a cynic, but I believe that in this world money trumps the right thing to do, and pushes out the people who can't fight back.

Stan, you make a good point. There are destinations that are rethinking it from a money angle. They are looking at the money the cruise ships bring in compared to the of the infrastructure needed to service them.

Cruisers don't sustain accommodations. Not many cruisers eat at local restaurants, the mostly dine on board. Other than buying cheap Chinese made trinkets, they don't add much to the economy. Yes the ships pay a docking fee, but it's really not much when you look at the per passenger rate.

Thankfully, there are some enlightened citizens and officials who measure cost and gain in more than dollars and cents. Sadly they may be in the group who gets pushed out.

I followed several World Cruise blogs during this whole pandemic and although the cruises were cut short, none of the passengers on the Viking Sun or the Regent Mariner got the virus. When cruising resumes, we will cruise again. When my husband retires we plan to do a World Cruise.

Yes the ships pay a docking fee, but it's really not much when you
look at the per passenger rate.

They also spend on resupply at the ports, food, fuel, etc. It is an economy much bigger than just what a tourist spends while off the ship.

Other than buying cheap Chinese made trinkets, they don't add much to the economy.

Not true. Many passengers do shore excursions which are pricey. Whether booked through the cruise line or independently this is revenue to local companies and a lot of it. Cruises cater to shoppers and there are lectures on board prior to each port. For many this is a highlight of visiting ports, particularly in the Caribbean. Folks spend a lot of money and it’s not cheap trinkets. Many shops feature high end watches, diamonds, etc. Are they really getting any bargains, who knows? But lots of money is spent. As for food and fuel, most modern ships carry 7-14 days of both. Some make it a point to stock up on local delicacies at certain docks. But the vast amount of restocking of food and fueling occurs on turn around day.

Of course cruises are usually fine when they begin, as viruses can be asymptomatic for days. A week or so in when you're all together as one big happy family is when the fun begins.

As for sure excursions, never book through the cruise line unless you have money to burn. We've found the private companies at the ports to be of better price and quality.

Not true. Many passengers do shore excursions which are pricey. Whether booked through the cruise line or independently this is revenue to local companies and a lot of it.

Based on our limited experience, I suggest anyone wanting to book an extra shore excursion do so independently. We booked an extra wine tour of the Moselle on our VRC Rhine trip. It advertised visiting a winery and having two wine tastings. We didn't really visit a winery, though we stood on a hillside and looked at vineyards in the distance. We were then taken to a "winery" which was actually a wine store in town. They had a few casks in the basement which they used to justify calling it a "winery". We were hustled through the basement because there was another tour on our heels. The "two wine tastings" meant we tasted two wines, not two full wine tastings of different wines as we experience in France, Italy and Napa Valley. We were then taken upstairs to their showroom were we were given much more time to shop. The problem was their wine was overpriced and poor quality. When we were in France on another trip we could buy much better wine at the grocery store for 6 euro a bottle. 2/3 of the time on this excursion was spent in the bus.

Furthermore, the guides on the included excursions were second or third rate. There would be 30 or 40 of us to one tour guide. This stands in stark contrast to the Walks of Italy tours we took independently on trip to Tuscany and Rome. Our guides were extremely knowledgeable. Our Florence guide held a Masters degree in art history. Our biggest group had just 12 members and there were just 6 of us on the Uffizi tour.

Folks spend a lot of money and it’s not cheap trinkets. Many shops feature high end watches, diamonds, etc.

On our VRC cruise, there was no time for casual shopping, nor were we taken anywhere to buy upscale items. We do shop on our trips, but we buy mementos locally produced. Our walls are covered with small works of art from Italy, France, England and Tanzania. We had salad last night, served from a bowl we bought from a woodcarver in Nicaragua.

Doug my comments pertain to ocean going cruises, not river cruises. Entirely different model.

Dougmac-

I live in a cruise port .

Do NOT underestimate what cruisers contribute - you have no idea . It’s way more than buying cheap trinkets .

Cruising has contributed billions to our economy - over 2 BILLION in 2016 and I’m sure it’s grown since then .

We’ve closed our port till July 1 st and will review it again closer to date .

But don’t you ever underestimate what it contributes to a port , as it’s obvious you have zero idea .

Like Pat, I too live in a cruise port. The Seattle Times reported May 6th that Princess Cruises and Holland America canceled all Alaska itineraries for the rest of the year. The port of Seattle estimates nearly $4 million in economic activity is generated each time a cruise ship docks at Seattle. Both Princess and Holland America attributed the cancellations to ongoing travel restrictions in place to control the spread of COVID-19. "At least 65 people who traveled on cruise ships have died of COVID-19."

We've never taken a cruise, but enjoy sailing in the Caribbean. We've done two trips (50 ft sailboats) with The Moorings. Three couples, a Captain and a cook. Our first trip was sailing rhe Grenadines and the second was the BVI's. Both were an adventure of a lifetime!

Here's a clue how things might change. I just got a packet with catalogs from Viking (if you've ever been on one, you know you'll get something from them weekly, forever). They're announcing a "risk-free guarantee" offer. (1) change your cruise date up to 24 hours before departure; (2) change fees waived; (3) 24 months to select a new cruise date. Maybe this will be new universal industry policy.

I just got a packet with catalogs from Viking (if you've ever been on one, you know you'll get something from them weekly, forever).

They used to send us double everything - one to me and one to my wife. I kept the codes and called Viking and talked to a very nice representative. She removed us from the mailing list no questions asked and we no longer get mailings.

We found cruising is not our cup of tea. Furthermore, our cruise was within six months of an independent tour of Tuscany. The trips were similar - the same length, both working from one base with no packing and unpacking and we even used tour guides. With airfare, meals, transportation and accommodation, the VRC costs three times what we spent in Tuscany.

Do NOT underestimate what cruisers contribute - you have no idea

Really?
With everything there are costs. Also this and this.

Though this is an older paper, there are those in your community who have serious concerns.

I have many family connections to Charleston, SC and visit there frequently for work. Here is an interesting paper that features cruise ships and Charleston. Savannah is even closer to my home. It is a lovely town who looked at the impact of cruise ships on Charleston and other communities and decided not to expand its cruise ship ports. After seeing what cruising has done to Venice and even the much larger city of Rome, I'm glad they realized what economic gain might have been realized would come at too great a cost.

Overall it was a pleasant experience and VRC did a credible job, but it confirmed that cruising of any sort isn't our cup of tea. When Viking advertises on PBS, they show at most two couples out having a grand time. The truth is you are with 100 other couples skimming the sites with no chance at any port to spend quality time. You never interact with the citizens other than in shops where you buy trinkets. The food was barely above mediocre and for what you pay you could have a nice meal in Paris.

My parents took the family on a VRC las summer to celebrate their 50th anniversary and we had more fun than we thought we would. The key was that we figure out on the first day that we liked cruising but we are definitely not group tour people and would either just go into town on our own for the ports where we were docked adjacent to an interesting city center or take the tour bus into town, tell the guide we were exploring on our own (we still tipped guide and bus driver since they were typically nice enough folks and we wanted them to have a full paycheck) and ask when and where we needed to meet up with the bus to get back to the ship. We had full days to explore Koln and Straussborg and half days for smaller places like Koblenz and the only day we felt like it was poorly organized was the long detour to see windmills in the Netherlands.

I'd call the food above average though hardly gourmet. We also ate on our own in town a fair amount.

Cruising isn't my first vacation pick but I could see doing another river or small ship one at some point down the road if the folks wanted to go again or it was a route that was really interesting.

The key was that we figure out on the first day that we liked cruising but we are definitely not group tour people and would either just go into town on our own...

I'm glad you found a solution that worked for you, but you paid an awful lot of money for things you didn't use.

Our Rhine cruise was under similar circumstances. We were with friends, the reason we ended up on the cruise to begin with. Enjoying time with our friends certainly made the trip worthwhile and traveling independently with another couple would have been more complicated, although we did manage quite well on our own for the additional three days in Amsterdam.

I guess given the size of the kitchen and the need to serve everyone at once the chefs did a good job. Breakfast was certainly the highlight with the casual lunch choice also good.

I think if we'd never traveled in Europe before and preferred a worry free travel experience I would have had a more positive impression of the cruise. Unfortunately, it came six months after our magical independent trip to Tuscany. We made friends and had experiences that are just impossible to have either on a cruise or an organized tour. We attended a Vesper service celebrated with Gregorian chant where we and one local villager were the only ones there besides the monks. We were invited by the owner of a vineyard to join him and his winemakers as they evaluated a new vintage. We ate more than once in a small restaurant where we were the only customers who weren't townspeople, where the restaurant owner joined us and gave us rudimentary lessons in Italian.

Viking cruises are $5000/person and way, way up from there for the cheap rooms, so get ready to dig deep.

1. A book to read about the cruise ship industry: "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea" by Kristoffer A. Garin.
2. Our only cruise was years ago on a 12 passenger boat in New England. We loved it. We have entertained the possibility of a larger cruise ship but as long as we are able to travel independently - no! We boated for 3 to 4 months at a time for 12 years in our own boat throughout the Pacific Northwest, mostly in Alaska. We have seen how the cruise ships travel mostly at night, spend the days in port hyping t-shirts & diamonds, and take a large cut of the shore excursions. Most people we asked 'What do you like about the cruise?' respond "the food." So far, cruise ships are not our travel answer.
   

We cruised quite a bit, but once we started traveling to Europe and became independent travelers, the sheen of the cruising experience really wore off. However, last summer we did a bike and barge trip down the Danube with 100 passengers (so, less of a barge and more of a low-end riverboat) and it was such a fun experience. We got to know the crew; they were so funny with the after-hours drinks they kept plying my family with. The biking during the day was great exercise and we were able to see some beautiful and interesting scenery. The cuisine was decent as well.

Our experience mirrors Wendy's. Once we traveled to NZ we knew we didn't need to cruise really anymore BUT boy do we enjoy our barge and bike trips in Italy and France!!!! I'd take a cruise once the vaccine is available if a group of friends or family wanted to however!

Wendy and Donna - How long ago did you take your barge trips? I have been looking for one without much luck.

Sorry for the hijack, Maggie.

EstimatedProphet, no problem at all. I have been quietly reading the replies. Sometimes threads take on a life of their own, and the direction in which the thread has moved seems to be helping the readers with a good exchange.........and that is always a good thing.

Maggie, this was a good topic. As a result, I talked to friends and family within whom we have cruised. I think the consensus is that we're more likely to go on a river cruise in Europe again because there is more control, and less fear of being stranded. But less likely to go on an ocean cruise, more out of the fear of being locked down and unable to leave the ship, not so much fear of getting sick. That's all presuming there is some successful resolution (treatment or vaccine) of this pandemic. My guess is that the industry will come up with some ways to address most concerns.

Viking cruises are $5000/person and way, way up from there for the cheap rooms, so get ready to dig deep.

I'm permanently on their mailing list now and the brochures showing up in my mailbox are advertising river cruises for less than half that.

Is there a death rate for cruises? How many deaths can I expect based on number of passengers? I'm guessing it's fairly low or there wouldn't be an industry.

When I cruise (a handful of times over the last decade and a half), I do stick to cooked food that is kept warm - just as I would when travelling in, for example, Mexico. I haven't been sick to date.

Is there a death rate for cruises? How many deaths can I expect based
on number of passengers? I'm guessing it's fairly low or there
wouldn't be an industry.

Well, the fact that they've been mothballed means "Houston, we have a problem" with the cruise ship environment being a highly effective vector for spreading a contagious virus. There is no "active" cruise industry right now to speak of, and who knows what it will look like in the future. Death rates under normal conditions have more to do with the age and health-related susceptibilities of passengers than the cruise ship environment, unless it contributes to those conditions or there is some freak event. Although I wouldn't be surprised that a sliver of people die while sailing of purely natural (or aggravated) causes, given that some very elderly people in their 80s/90s (often with multiple chronic conditions) go on cruises. Even a bad cold can give them pneumonia and there could be several sick, coughing people on board. I'm sure a cruise liner is more prepared for that misfortune than a contagious virus.

This is the best info I could find based on the Diamond Princess. 3618 people tested, 712 confirmed cases and 8 deaths which works out to .2%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1099517/japan-coronavirus-patients-diamond-princess/

With any travel there is a certain (varying) loss of control, but I think what made so many people (me included) pay attention to the newer extra risks of cruise ships is when we saw cruise ships being stranded (in the sense of not being able to find a dock/country that would accept them), with the result being passengers were stranded (on board) for an unknown period of time.........in some cases with the virus spreading among passengers and crew. Then, as though that was not enough, (in some circumstances) then having to be quarantined before being allowed to fly home (and, of course, the risks of flying at that time).

If someone is land-based (either group tour or independent travel), things still can (and do) happen, but you are not necessarily as "contained" as one is on a ship, and you pretty much know where you will be (on land) and when/how (for the most part, with some exceptions in recent times) you will get home (or to your next destination).

If a fire were to happen at a hotel, there is risk, but one can also potentially get down the stairs and out the door quickly.....on a cruise ship there are lifeboats, but no just running off the ship by oneself. If a serious illness were to break out in one country, okay pay the fee to adjust one's airfare and hotel reservations and pivot.........not as easy in the more rigid arrangement as a passenger on a cruise ship.

We have enjoyed small ship cruising - and we have some incredible memories and have made some long-term friends - but it will be a long, long time before we sign up for another ship-based trip (if ever), and we will even be very cautious about deciding if/when future travels of any type may take place.

Everyone has different risk tolerances, and the key is understanding and operating within what is right for YOU.

With other things occupying my attention, I’d forgotten about about cruise ship staff not being allowed to exit the ship, more than a month ago. I was reminded again this past week on the radio, of the huge number of people still quarantined on a huge boat. Something some people would've undoubtedly dreamed of months ago, getting to be on a cruise ship for a long time (some major current details certainly not considered), has been a nightmare for the staff stuck onboard. If the ship’s such a hazard, it’s nasty that people are forced to remain there. Maybe no better alternative, for the greater good, but it must be terrifying for them. At the very least, extremely irritating. And no customers lining up to take their places.

On the other hand, a cruise ship’s a lot bigger than a jetliner, presumably with more distancing opportunities. But cruises have lasted for days, where flights were merely many hours. Though situation for so many!

One way hallways and stairs

They’d have to enforce that far better than what’s happening in our local grocery stores. Shoppers have been going the wrong way more than the right direction, the one marked on the floor.

Cyn, should be interesting. Stores can't/won't enforce masks, social distancing, or arrows.

Rules without enforcement are suggestions.