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Europe Trip 2018-Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Germany, Switzerland

I need help planning our next Europe trip. My husband and I have travelled to Europe before, but for this trip we are going with friends and none of them have. We'll all be in our 30's and fairly fit and but with varying ideas on how active to be on the trip, therefore I'm having trouble finding a good fit/pace for this itinerary. My husband and I have done both the fast-paced thing (1-2 days in a city) as well as the long stays (7-9 days in a city), we prefer going back and forth between 4 days and 2 days (4-2-4-2-4). We have 2 people who want to do the 2 nights-every-city-thing, and 1 person who wants to stay a week in each place; difficult to meld all the opinions! So, I need help with what I've come up with so far:


Day # - Date - City/Activities - Overnight


Day 1 - Sept. 10th - Fly to Europe - Plane


Day 2 - Sept. 11th - Fly into Amsterdam - Amsterdam


Day 3 - Sept. 12th - Amsterdam - Amsterdam


Day 4 - Sept. 13th - Amsterdam - Amsterdam


Day 5 - Sept. 14th - Train to Brussels -2hrs (9:15a-11:05) - Brussels


Day 6 - Sept. 15th - Brussels-all day, night train to Vienna (6:30p-8:15a) - Night Train


Day 7 - Sept. 16th - Vienna - Vienna


Day 8 - Sept. 17th - Vienna - Vienna


Day 9 - Sept. 18th - Vienna-daytrip to Melk Abbey, cruise the Danube - Vienna


Day 10 - Sept. 19th - Train to Salzburg -2.5hrs (10:45a-1:05p) - Salzburg


Day 11 - Sept. 20th - Salzburg - Salzburg


Day 12 - Sept. 21st - Train to Munich -1.5hrs (9:05a-10:35) - Munich


Day 13 - Sept. 22nd - Munich -Oktoberfest all day - Munich


Day 14 - Sept. 23rd - Munich - Munich


Day 15 - Sept. 24th - Munich - Munich


Day 16 - Sept. 25th - Car rental in Munich, drive to castles, stay in Füssen - Füssen


Day 17 - Sept. 26th - Füssen -explore Tirol and Bavaria regions by car - Füssen


Day 18 - Sept. 27th - Drive to Luzern -3/3.5hrs, arrive early afternoon - Luzern


Day 19 - Sept. 28th - Luzern - Luzern


Day 20 - Sept. 29th - Scenic train ride -5.5hrs, stop in Interlakken for lunch, arrive in Montreux by 5p, transfer to Lausanne - Lausanne


Day 21 - Sept. 30th - Lausanne -Lake Geneva, Chatêau de Chillon - Lausanne


Day 22 - Oct. 1st - Lausanne -daytrip to Gruyères, explore area - Lausanne


Day 23 - Oct. 2nd - Fly back home - Home


What I'm now thinking about, is cutting Brussels, Belgium entirely, and then either taking a night train from amsterdam to vienna the night 5 to day 6, or fly day 6 to vienna in the AM. I get more time in each city. But I personally would miss seeing Brussels. Suggestions? Comments? Munich is pretty solid, the only thing everyone wanted and could agree on. Thanks in advance for any help!

Posted by
3551 posts

Your post says 2018, if that is accurate then i hope your itin is just a broad outline so u and friends can have fun talks about the trip way ahead.
I would substitute Brugge over Brussels. Still in Belgium but alot more to do and see. Ck it out. It is magical. It is one of the most beautiful places to visit.

Posted by
6922 posts

So you're thinking of "...cutting Brussels, Belgium entirely, and then either taking a night train from amsterdam to vienna the night 5 to day 6, or fly day 6 to vienna in the AM. I get more time in each city. I personally would miss seeing Brussels. Suggestions? Comments?"

Isn't that night train the one that requires a change of train at 5:00 am in Passau? Even if that appeals to you, I'd expect at least one of you to sleep poorly prior to 5 am, a circumstance that can impact the group's activities after arrival in Vienna.

The Fuessen "castle" of Neuschwanstein is a late 19th-century palace. Hohenschwangau is a palace as well. So while you might want to see these places, I'd suggest that on your way toward Austria, you spend one night - maybe the night you had allocated for Brussels - in the Middle Rhine Valley, where you can see a real castle or two. Marksburg in Braubach (10 train minutes from Koblenz) is a good option - it's a genuine, never-destroyed medieval castle - and Braubach is an adorable town as well. A'dam to Braubach (8:05 - 12:05) puts you there for the 1 pm castle tour in English. Drop bags at your hotel upon arrival and head to the castle. After the tour, take the train to Ruedesheim and catch a KD cruise boat (4:15 pm) north past most of the 40 castles that dot the river between Bingen and and back to Braubach (7:20 pm.)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Maeuseturm_Burg_Ehrenfels_Bingen_Rhein.jpg

IMO this would be a more enjoyable day than one spent in Brussels.

From Braubach, head to Munich for Sept. 15,16,17, maybe 18. But I suspect 3 nights there, with O'fest crowds and O'fest prices, might be adequate.

Posted by
27609 posts

With all due respect to your friends, if they haven't traveled to Europe before, they're not in a great position to know what their preferred travel style is. And since you are apparently the one doing the bulk of the planning, I think you get to lay out a proposal. At some point, if the differences are too great, you get to say, "That's fine. We'll be glad to meet up with you in City X and City Y, and you can do your own thing before and after." At least that's what I would say.

Your proposal offers many opportunities for side trips, which should keep your blitz-trip companions occupied. Your stay-put friends can skip Salzburg and go straight from Vienna to Munich, though I personally wouldn't want a full week in either of those cities, and a week in Munich around the time of the Oktoberfest figures to be expensive.

I'd encourage a flight between Brussels (or Amsterdam) and Vienna rather than the night train. First, they are cutting back on night trains with sleeping accommodations, and we don't know what will be available at the time you plan to travel. Second, the 6:24 PM routing I see for a Brussels-Vienna trip next Monday has a 140-minute layover in Wurzburg between 11:41 PM and 2:01 AM. That will be miserable. When I randomly checked Dec. 6th I found a couple of other routings beginning with that 6:24 PM departure. One was markedly better--just a 66-minute layover in Cologne, between 8:15 and 9:21 PM. Still, all concerned should understand that there are 11 stops between Cologne and Vienna. How much sleep will people actually get?

Edited to add: I really, really like Russ's idea. You'll be a hero to your friends if you include that in your itinerary.

Posted by
8297 posts

I too hope you're going in 2017 and not 2018.
You said you're going with friends and "none" have ever been to Europe before.
Are you going to be traveling with another couple or is there a larger group of you? Traveling with 5 or more presents some challenges. I hope you're really close friends, as 3 weeks is a long time. And since you've been there before, it's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
I'm a believer in flying open jaw--into one city and out of another. I'm also big on traveling to cities that are relatively close together and to cities that compliment each other. For example, I like trips to Rome, Florence and Venice. Or, Budapest, Vienna and Prague. Or, Munich, Salzburg and Vienna. London, Paris and Barcelona would fit as they have great high speed rail between the cities.
With the advent of budget European airlines, I like traveling through one region and then flying to a completely different place on the way home. Like visiting Italy, and stopping in Portugal on the way home. Or, going to Berlin, Dresden and Prague and stopping in Copenhagen on the way home. I hope you understand what I'm saying.
As far as your itinerary above, it's really a little too aggressive for first time European travelers. It's likely that much of the trip could be somewhat of a blur. Belgium is somewhat out of the way from Amsterdam to Vienna. I agree about flying between those two cities. Switzerland is more difficult to travel through--and very expensive. We find Austria a great substitute as it's cheaper and much easier to travel through. (It's the same mountains.) You might could spend the time you have in Switzerland in Tirol and have time to head down to Venice. You just have so many options.
I first traveled to Europe as a 20 year old college student. If you're 30 somethings and looking for a lively time, Munich, Vienna, Budapest and Prague would be perfect cities for you. Those Grunge Bars of Budapest are hard to beat.
Whatever you choose to do, have a great time. It could be a trip of a lifetime for you all.

Posted by
4085 posts

I have learned the hard way that travelling with a group is like herding cats, much easier to earn annoyance that praise. Before worrying about the route, work out these challenges in advance. Well in advance.
Nobody will be satisfied with every choice, whether it is restaurant, activity, or mode of transport. Discuss it all now. The most essential point is that the various travellers feel free to go off on their own, with no guilt or jealousy from anybody. In my group, we meet for breakfast and supper and in between we do our own things. If you are sketching out the route, give the others lots of chance to chip in (or back out). And talk now about how joint expenses will be split up. I travel with friends-for-life and we have stayed that way by leaving plenty of stretch in our plans.

Posted by
16895 posts

The Amsterdam-Vienna night train is one that is cancelled for 2017, loosely replaced by a departure from Dusseldorf.

Your big cities of Amsterdam, Vienna, and Munich have plenty to see and do, so I would stick with the 3+ nights that you have in each of those.

Posted by
14758 posts

If you are going with friends, none of whom has ever been to Europe, what makes any of their advice better than yours? On that basis I would not rely on such friends for advice.

Posted by
14758 posts

The night service from Düsseldorf goes to Munich Hbf, where you can transfer to Vienna. Düsseldorf to Munich night train is the one I took, then transferring to Linz.

Posted by
20924 posts

In 2018 who knows what the night train situation will be. You will not know what the train schedules will be until April 2018. Plan on flying from Brussels/Amsterdam to Vienna. Easyjet has cheap flights from Amsterdam.

You show driving to Luzern, but you will be using trains the rest of the time you are in Switzerland. It is expensive to drop a car in another country, and you will also need to purchase a Swiss vignette sticker for the car. Consider dropping the car in Lindau, then taking the train to Luzern from there. At any rate, it deserves a little number crunching.

You show staying in Lausanne, which is a big city. Montreux or Vevey will be more convenient more visiting Chateau Chillon and Gruyeres. It is easy to get to Geneva airport from there. I assume that is where you are flying home from.

Posted by
9141 posts

What kind of car are you going to get that will hold at least 5 people and their luggage? You don't say if it is just 5 or could it be 6 people? That means a mini-van. Will one person drive or will it be shared? Can everyone drive a standard or will you shell out extra money for an automatic?

The night trains aren't fun for everyone. Many people get no sleep. You end up at your destination exhausted. Either fly, or break your trip up into smaller portions.