Europe travel advice esp for Italy (Portugal, Spain & Paris)

I feel like many of those Spanish stays are very short. Remember that the sun will set shortly after 6 PM in late December. It's hard to appreciate architecture when the light is going. Lisbon's short, too. I would recommend dropping at least one destination and spreading the days elsewhere.

Thanks for your replies

AshleyMIa

The itinerary is subject to change but Lisbon 25/12 & Madrid 31/12, Seville 5/12 3 Kings parade

Acraven

Yes, we are traveling to a lot of places, but the tyranny of distance from Australia, means we may not ever get back
to this part of Europe.

Please advise where else I should visit, Pompeii, considering Venice and Naples ?

Pick one. Trying to do both Venice and Naples in your time frame looks like a lot of traveling with little 'being there'

Logistically Venice is easier.( given you are going to Florence)

Depends on what you want to do as to which to choose.

For now, I hope the terrible fires at home get extinguished! If you did head south of Rome on your Dec/Jan trip:

Back in 2012 we were in Rome in December, then made our way to Sorrento in time for New Year’s. Based in Sorrento, and with a rental car (driver’s on the left side of the car, traffic drives on the right side of the road), we toured the Amalfi coast (without what I understand are crippling crowds in Summer), Pompeii (was open New Year’s Day), and Herculaneum (another Roman town, buried in the same eruption), and more.

Sorrento was also the departure point for a day trip to the Isle of Capri. We took the train one day to see the outstanding Archaeological museum in Naples, and to have pizza in its birthplace. Not having a car meant not dealing with Naples traffic, navigating, or parking.

Thanks Joe32 and Cyn

Joe32
I'm keener on Florence and your right I need to pick one area and stick to it.

Cyn
Fires are the worst that I can ever remember, terrible for the country (esp folks living in the affected areas) and all the animals, really horrific. The cities have been affected by some moke haze, some areas have had heavy falls of rain today, so some welcome relief!

I've looked at Sorento, looks lovely, thanks for the information something else to consider.

Thanks AshleyMIa

I'm blown away by all the information you've provided.

Will definitely check out the archeological area in Seville.

We were looking to stay in Triana, so the additional information on the 3 Kings if great!

Will take on board what you said about Rome and will consider cutting my time elsewhere to spend more time there.

Definitely considering Florence and or Naples, so do you have a preference?

Will definitely take the blue guide you've suggested!

Thanks Shar

Italy I like your idea of going straight to Florence. There's not much in the way of archaeology, but lots of Renaissance painting, sculpture and architecture. You can day trip by train to Pisa/Lucca, and to Siena by bus. Since it's December, Venice is probably not a good idea. I don't like 1-2 nighters and doing it on the way to Rome on Christmas eve is probably not going to work out well. On the other hand, there may be Christmas markets worth day-tripping to from Florence or the evening passeggiata. The long stay will give you time to recharge for Rome and the string of short stops ahead. It is possible to do a day trip to Pompeii from Rome, but you'll want to get up very early. Sunset's around 4.30 so that's probably when the site closes. Take a fast train to Naples, transfer to the local Circumvesuviana (CV), which stops just meters from the main entrance. It takes about 15 minutes to traverse the Naples train station and buy the CV round-trip ticket. The CV runs twice an hour, takes about 35-40 minutes. Leave time in the afternoon to visit the archaeology museum in Naples before returning to Rome. OR spend a 1/2 day at Ostia Antica, Rome's ancient seaport. Much smaller and less impressive than Pompeii, but it's close to Rome and well worth seeing. The RS Italy Guide will help you plan, give you a lot of practical info, and has very good self-guided city walks and tours of the main sights.

Portugal I understand wanting to see more, but in this case I really think it would be better to visit one of the two areas. At year-end, I'd say Lisbon. You could consider 2N in Sintra. It's very close, without traffic you can get there from the airport by taxi or Uber in not much more than 1/2 an hour. It's a very pretty small town with some very interesting sights. You could day trip from Lisbon to Cascais, or find a day tour to some of the nearby sights, like the Gothic monasteries of Batalha and Alcobaca (very different, both beautiful). Sunset's just before 5.30 at year end. It's almost an hour later in Sevilla.

Spain You have a string of short stays but I don't see how to improve on your plan except to bypass Madrid. Of all your destinations, not just in Spain, it's the least remarkable one. . . . unless you want to spend hours looking at some of the finest of European painting or if there's a special NYE celebration you want to see. You could easily add a night to Toledo or Cordoba and one to Barcelona.

Why are you going during the darkest and coldest time of the year. Well, take a warm coat, hat.

1. 8 nights for Italy, does that include the five in Rome you mentioned? If the 8 nights are extra then go for doing Florence and Venice. Skip Pompeii, Venice and Naples, you don't have time.
2. Three nights in Lisbon is a bit short, especially if you visit places between Lisbon and Porto. Evora is a great day trip, as is Sintra. Obidos has an ancient Roman wall. Porto is wonderful, and love The InPatio Guesthouse for a B&B. Two nights is OK for Porto, but you will miss seeing the wonderful Douro River Valley.
3. Seville is the top spot in Spain, in my opinion. Three nights is a bit short, but at least you are going there. Cordoba one night, well you don't seem to have the time to spend more in Andalusia. Don't miss Toledo. Two nights in Madrid is too short. Don't miss the wonderful Prado Art Museum.
4. Barcelona four nights is fine as is 6 in Paris.

I suggest that you eliminate a portion of your trip and spend more time. For example, you could eliminate the Portugal part of your trip and spend more time in Madrid, Seville and perhaps visit Granada.

Thanks Chani,
Really appreciate your reply and suggestions, we definitely need to reconsider our plans (as originally Italy wasn't on the itinerary).

Thanks Geovagriffith
Why are you going during the darkest and coldest time of the year.

It's the only time we can get extensive leave from our jobs (not the best but we'll enjoy anyway).

Well, take a warm coat, hat.

Definitely planned to take warm coats, boots and layers!

8 nights for Italy, does that include the five in Rome you mentioned? If the 8 nights are extra then go for doing Florence and Venice. Skip Pompeii, Venice and Naples, you don't have time.

8 nights are additional.

Thanks again AshleyMIA!!

So it's 14 nights in Italy with 5 nights in Rome with the family? Yes

Are you an art museum enthusiast? No

Is everybody in the group equally enthusiastic about antiquity sites? If rest of the group isn't as keen, you need to get to Napoli and Rome first before family arrives.

Definitely need to get the family together to discuss.

I'd suggest going to Florence first (2-3 days for Florence + 2-3 day trips = 5-6n), then to Napoli (2n), then to Rome a couple of days before family flies in.

I like your suggestions very much, though still keen on Pompei, so might add a day to Naples for this.

I will definitely check into the Rome not - central cites (great information)!

Yes compared to Italy and Spain you're right none in Lisbon are a must see (seen a lot of you tubes).

As for Sevilla/Cordoba/Granada,

Very good to know, will also discuss with others, staying in Granada was so that we could get up early to go to the Alhambra, was thinking you only see a place once the hordes of tourist go in the evening, but if there's no atmosphere best to stay in Seville.

What area would you recommend in Seville? Probably looking at an Airbnb.

Paris
All true, but the Louvre, Musse D'Orsay and Eiffel Tower are high on the list for one family member, but will discuss with everyone.

I see things quite differently from Ashley for Spain. I would never recommend Granada as a day trip. It takes way too long to get there and get back. The Alhambra campus is very large and you'll want lots of time to see it all. I guess if you live in Sevilla it may be worth it, but if you are spending $$ to stay in a hotel in either city, why waste all that time commuting? Getting to an 8.15 bus (that's the earliest on the current Alsa website, the next is at 9.00) means getting up very early to dress and have breakfast and gt to the station, and in Granada you'll have to take buses or taxis to/from the Alhambra. The ride itself takes 3 hours. Best case - you get to the Alhambra at 11.30-11.45. The Alsa bus site shows returning buses at 18.30 and 20.30. Sunset's around 18.15 in January and the Alhambra closes at 18.00. You'd leave around 17.30 to get back to the station for the bus home, giving you 6 hours there, just about enough. 7 hours travel time for 6 hours sightseeing (and lunch) time . . . that's why I'd never recommend it. If you're going to travel 3-4 hours to get there, spend at least 2 nights, be able to watch sunset from a viewpoint and see the other highlights of Granada, like the Albaicin and the cathedral and surroundings.

Don't worry about crowds. The Alhambra offers a set number of tickets every day, they sell out every day and it's never really crowded. I've been to Andalucia twice in February and there are no crowds anywhere, and I'll bet there are fewer tourists in January than February.

She is right about Sevilla being bustling and lively in the evenings. That's why I prefer quiet, romantic Cordoba after dark, to enjoy wandering in the medieval center, enjoying great food at lower prices.

Don't scratch Paris! One of the things I really like about Europe's cities in winter is that the trees are bare, they don't obscure the beautiful buildings you cannot see from spring through fall. Those long evenings give you time to enjoy seeing the city lit up - the classic buildings, the bridges, fountains and monuments. BTW the best views of the city are not from the Eiffel Tower. You can watch sunset and the city lights (and Eiffel Tower lights) go on from the top of the Arc de Triomphe. There are good daytime views from Montmartre. The very best view is from Tour Montparnasse - Parisians say so because it's the only view without seeing the eyesore Tour Montparnasse. All of them can be accessed on the day, so you can choose when visibility is good. A really good view of the Eiffel Tower is from the Trocadero.

I agree with Chani about not day-tripping from Seville to Granada. I occasionally take long day-trips (though not that long), but they are to small towns that I expect to be able to see in their totality with the time I will have available. Granada definitely is not that sort of destination.

As a resident of Washington DC I might take a train or bus to Philadelphia for the day (though I never have done so), but I'd never recommend that a tourist staying in DC do that.

Thanks to all,
After discussion with the family, we have heeded your advice and removed Portugal from our Itinerary and will most likely add 3 days to both Spain and Italy. This will most likely change the order of the itinerary (this will also depend on our international flights), as it probably makes sense to start our journey in Barcelona.

Thanks AshleyMIA,
Thanks for your advice especially on Seville!

Thank your so much Chani for taking the time to offer such exhaustive advice.

Re: Granada & Cordoba, I've spoken to the family and they're not keen on the day trips, so we will take your advice on board.

Paris is still definitely in the itinerary, I love your perspective on winter in Paris.
Thanks for the tips on Paris, loved your comments on Tour Montparnasse (haha), don t know what they were thinking with that building.

Shar

Thanks also to ACRaven.