Europe Tour - need help

I recommend that you drop the number of overnight stops in your plan. If you don’t, your trip will be a blur of sights with no sundance to them.

Pick four locations, max. You are really late to the game for booking lodging, and you have a large group. Your original plan would have you spending only one night in some locations, and really isn't possible, travel-wise.
So- quickly choose your top four locations and get busy booking air and accommodations. It helps if your four places are somewhat close together. I'd eliminate Paris right away as Olympic preparations will be underway. You also have a major cities and no small towns. Define your interests and travel style.
Good luck!

Family make up? 8 cities in 16 days, That will give one full day in each one. London, Paris, and Rome deserve 5 full days each. The others deserve at least 2 or 3. Yes, some cuts are in order.

Let's do the math. You have 17 days. 2 of those are your arrival and departure travel days, leaving 15 days in Europe. You want to visit 9 different cities in that time, but that gives you at most 1 1/2 days in each. Except you haven't allowed for travel time between cities, which would take AT LEAST 1/2 day each time you moved. End result: only 1 travel tired day in each of these places. Not to be harsh, but that is going to be a terrible vacation.

Each of your cities deserves at minimum, 3-5 days each, and you need to research travel times between each place (hotel to hotel). Rail is usually the most convenient mode of transport between major cities for trips less than 5-6 hours. For longer distances, consider flying. To learn about European train travel, go to the Man in Seat 61 website.

Realistically, you really need to eliminate half of these places.

I would suggest dropping a few of these cities. If you're going to Paris (drop some of the others), you can still get rooms at a decent, not outrageous, price. I'll be in Paris the same time as your projected trip dates, and my highest price is 112 Euro a night in a two star hotel.

My suggestion is to drop Spain, unless you're used to zipping back and forth

I just read your itinerary to my wife (she doesn't read this forum so is unaccustomed to trip details like this) and her jaw dropped before asking "do they know how big Europe is?" I couldn't possibly contemplate a trip like this, all it would entail would be looking at the interior of whatever transport method you'd be using. What do you aim to achieve or want to do in all these cities?

However, I'm a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out the best way to plan our trip and choose transportation methods

Only 'a bit overwhelmed'. ?

The 'best way to plan our trip', is to cut the number of destinations to 4. The transportation methods will then become obvious, based on which four places you choose.

Booking.com is a good place to search for lodging. Just set the filters to your needs and desires

I initially considered Eurail, but after hearing mixed reviews, I'm unsure if it's the right option for us.

Eurail do not operate any trains. They merely offer rover tickets across Europe. They are often very poor value, compared to point to point tickets, and need to be supplemented with seat reservations at extra cost- which can be hard to obtain.

That is what the poor reviews are about, not about the quality of the trains which are operated by the various national railroads.

There are people and circumstances where a Eurail pass IS a good idea, but not for the majority of travellers. That has also changed over the years- until fairly recently (maybe 10 or 15 years ago, perhaps less) a Eurail (or Interrail as it is called here) was a really good idea.
Many of us on this forum used interrail in our earlier years, and loved it for the value and the flexibility it gave. In parts of Europe it still does work well- but not in France and the Balearics, and questionably in Italy.
It still works quite well in Germany, but has been supplanted there in large part by the D ticket.

As others have said this itinerary reads like the old style stereotype of an American tourist in Europe- "if it's Wednesday this must be x City" reflecting a too fast pace and a false impression of distances and travel time between cities.

WAY too many places for the number of days.

Cut down your countries and enjoy them. I have been to Rome twice and spent a total of about 12 days there and still haven't seen everything.

Try to pick an itinerary where the cities are closer together. Also, skip Frankfurt, it is no where near a top site to visit in Germany.

Suggestions are do England (London, Bath, Stonehenge and Windsor Castle, the Paris, then on to either Belgium and Holland or Strasbourg and Switzerland.
Or, do Rome, Florence and Venice in Italy, then Milan, Interlakken Switzerland, Lucerne.

Whoa.

Just to give you an idea of what your itinerary might look like:
Land in London May 23. Let's say 3 nights there.
Travel to Paris May 26. Three nights, depart May 29.
Travel travel to Frankfurt. One night, depart May 30.
Travel to Munich Two nights. Depart June 1.
Travel to Zürich. One night, depart June 2.
Travel to Milan, one night, depart June 3.
Travel to Rome, 2 nights, depart June 5.
Travel to Barcelona, two nights, depart June 7.
Travel to Cordoba, spend the night, and fly out.

So you get an afternoon and two full days in London. That is not enough, but you can make it work.
You get an afternoon and two full days in Paris. Not enough, but you can make it work.
You get an afternoon at best in Frankfurt. For what exactly?
You get an afternoon and a full day in Munich. That is not enough.
You get an afternoon in Zurich. Why bother? Same with Milan.
You get an afternoon and a full day in Rome. You cannot say you have seen Rome in a day, especially since it wasn't built in a day.
You get one full day of travel and one full day in Barcelona. Not enough.
Then you get to see Cordoba in the evening before flying out.

You spend at least a half day getting from London to Paris, whether by train or plane, so even if you start early, door to door it's going to be 5 hours or more. Same with Paris to Frankfurt. Frankfurt to Munich is "only" four hours or more. Munich to Zürich is another 5. You get the idea. And the doozy is Rome to Barcelona. It's either all day or you are flying, and that is no less a hassle. You would be spending your entire trip either on a train / in a car / in a plane or lugging your suitcases from hotel check out to check in to train station lockers to hotel lobbies or stressing about train platforms. You are eating train station kiosk food. When are you actually going to see and experience anything?

For this trip you should cut down to three or at most four cities. If you use London as a base, you can do day trips to places like Stonehenge, Windsor, Bath, Oxford, the Cotswolds, the Harry Potter studio, and much more. And you can fully explore London--not just rush through Westminster and the Tower and breakneck speed, but visit mildly or very off-the-beaten-track places like the Cross Bones cemetery or the Abbey Road crossing or the Museum of the Order of St John (we were lucky enough to attend a wedding here) or Seven Dials. Or simply sit in a pub and watch people go by or maybe catch a play with actors you might actually know in the Covent Garden area. You can really get to know a city that way, and London's museums are amazing. Six nights is really not enough for London, but it will be a good amount of time. I find new things every time I go back.

The same is true for Paris. Zip up the Eiffel Tower or enjoy a patisserie? You can do both if you give it a few days. And while Rome is highly walkable, it isn't a one day city. The Vatican alone is a full day.

So if you instead something like:
Land in London May 23. Spend six nights, depart May 29.
Travel to Paris. Spend five nights, depart June 3.
Travel to Rome. Spend five nights. Fly out June 8th.

You have an afternoon and five full days in London. It won't feel like enough, but you will have had the chance to get to know and enjoy it and hit the highlights in and around it. You will have a half day of travel and an afternoon and four full days in Paris. A day trip to Versailles is in the cards this way. Then you either fly or train to Rome (either way figure most of the day travel), where you have four full days to see the city--maybe see the catacombs or, if you are ambitious, a day trip to Naples or similar.

You will not thank yourself if all you see of Europe is train stations and hotel lobbies.

Welcome to the Forum! Appreciate everyone saying what I might have added, and Howlin had some great suggestions above.

Ages of the 7 people traveling? Sounds like you may never have been to Europe?
Do you plan on staying in hotels & taking public transport? (Some of your destinations will take longer if you take the trains into towns & then catch a bus. Are you packing VERY light if traveling by train? (look above, do a search on RS forum for packing, lots and lots on the subject.) What interests you? Museums & churches? Architecture? (Frankfurt was decimated in WW2, some of downtown has been rebuilt, but could never be compared with the glories of Rome, for example.)

Someone once suggested looking at each day, amount of time to pack, check out, get to train? plane, travel times, eating where? to next hotel, unpack... Realistically you haven't allowed yourself much time to do much else!

London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich, Milan, Rome, Barcelona, and Cordoba
What are your major interests and how did you pick these cities? I think you could realistically do London, with some day trips, take the Eurostar (which you need to book ahead or it becomes very expensive) to Paris. Then add one of the following, but frankly England & France is more than enough!

I would skip Frankfurt & Zurich. So IF you wanted another location, I would choose one of these 3 options -

1) Barcelona & Cordoba (Why Cordoba specifically for the Mesquita but skipping Granada, with the fabulous Alhambra?) 2) OR Rome, probably not Milan as it just adds an extra day, unless you absolutely HAVE to see the Last Supper & Cathedral, then I would see if there are available reservations for the 1.5 days you might have there). AND you could easily spend a week in Rome, then fly to Paris & reverse Eurostar to London. 3) OR Munich, not sure why just one stop in Germany? Much to see in the area, maybe a day trip to Salzburg?

Use multi-trip, so for example fly into Rome in May, out of London in June, working your way north as it warms up. Have you watched RS videos here on the website for your destinations?
(Just to give you an idea of the vastness of Roman treasures, we spent 8 nights in Rome in December, have been there multiple times before & didn't repeat any destinations except walking by a few fountains!)

Once you have a better idea of where & when & how you wish to travel, ask the kids or are they elderly the others in the family? What they want to see and what intrigues them? Feel free to post your updated itinerary, many more will have ideas! Good luck!

As a measure to save time to/fro the train station and hotel, I usually stay within easy walking distance from the hotel to the station, ie, 2-4 mins or so. The main point is no need to rely on public transport or a taxi, and above all, ride sharing to do this distance.

What you have listed, I stay close to the train station in Munich, Frankfurt (across the street) , Paris (opposite of the station) , London, 1/4 of block away before entering the underground passage.

I suggest keeping this factor in mind as you finally decide on the reduced numbers of cities to be visited.

I would go a bit further on the itinerary. Pick two. London and Paris,. Paris and Rome. You could very easily spend a week in Paris and a week in London or a week in Rome and still have lots yet to do and see. Or, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich might suit. Or you could regroup your choices based on interests - museums, nature, food, culture. You didn't indicate the ages in your group or interests, so it's hard to offer concrete suggestions. My concern is that you are moving in a very large group. That probably means that making daily decisions, doing anything, going anywhere and eating anywhere won't be quick. Do you have any experience at home trying to move your entire family simultaneously on public transportation or even out for dinner? How long does it take? What are the challenges? Do you ever wish you hadn't done it? Maybe you have no problems with either. But, you will be in unfamiliar surroundings, which will impact on your plans, flexibility, and efficiency at least some. For hotels, yes, you are late to the game. Depending on where you end up, with your family size, you might be able to find a VRBO or Airbnb with multiple bedrooms. It might not be that much more economical, but at least you'd have more space to move around. There are also short term apartment rentals at least in London and Paris. People on the forum have used them and reviewed them. Many European hotel rooms are very small. If you go the hotel route, inquire specifically as to the availability of family rooms.

I agree with everyone, too many places in too short of time. Problem often is people see a tour plan and think they can travel that quick on their own. They can’t. Tours have experience with logistics.

When my South of France tour ended, I headed to Venice. But to break up the train time, decided to do an overnight in Milan. Thinking had enough time to see the Duomo, I bought tickets. What I didn’t plan for was a 3+ hour train delay in Genoa when there was a dead lady on the tracks and the police were investigating.

Besides too many stops in too few days, there is no contingent time if things go wrong.

When you’re at the point of booking hotels, I like to use Booking.com. Only people who stayed at the locations receive a link to upload their reviews. TripAdvisor allows anyone to add a review, so they are not a reliable source for true reviews….although good for checking photos submitted by travelers.

It also makes a difference as to who is in this group of 7.
All adults? Tiny children? Seniors with some mobility challenges?
If you can let us know the ages and some interests of the group, we can help you.
I hope you are not doing all the planning, but that someone else is helping you?

For your first trip to Europe, I feel you would do much better staying in only two cities and really enjoying them, as opposed to trying to do too much.
You can return again!

Has the original poster been back to respond, or are we all preaching to the choir?😉

@pat. I wonder when someone posts something like this and doesn’t come back, if they’re overwhelmed by the responses or just having themselves a good laugh. Whatever, there’s still quite a bit of good info for others to take advantage of.

Thank you all for your input, I will take everything into consideration! I will extend the number of days! Another question, do you recommend train or car? Also, what is the best travel route? Should I land in London and leave from there as well or another country.
Another question, AirBnb or hotel?

Finding a car for 7 people plus bags will be challenging, and once you have it, finding parking will be difficult and expensive.

For the places you list a car would be more hindrance than help.

Life will be much better if you do a multi-city ( aka open jaw) flight itinerary. Your list really doesn't make doing a loop practical, to fly
r/t from London ( or any of the other destinations)

Alice, please tell us more about your group of 7; ages, interests, travel experience, what does everyone want to see/do? It’s good you’re adding days to your trip; how many? To see all you want, I’d consider adding no less than a week and that would be rushed. Two weeks would be better.

Where do you see your trip plan now, meaning how many days in which cities? What do you want to see in each city? Do you want to take day trips to see more of an area? Stops along the way to visit more sights

To get an idea of distance, look at rome2rio.com. Also to help manage your time, write out your itinerary; use whatever system works best for you. There were a couple good planning threads recently to help you.

Re: the means of travel.

I choose the train, no rental car for me, not my style, not interested.

On the type of accommodation, either hotel or Air B&B , again it's up to your travel style, priorities, etc assuming you have weighed the assets and liabilities.

I choose hotels, basically smaller ones, depends. In London it's the B&B. On Air B&B ...not an option, not my style, not interested.

I would add that going from one big city to another through your whole trip would be extra tiring for me. We try to do a mix of big cities and smaller villages on our trips. Maybe instead of Frankfurt you could spend a couple of nights nearby on the Rhine.

I would also suggest you buy the Rick Steves best of Europe book. It covers most of the cities you are interested and I personally love his recommended accommodations which usually include at least 1 or 2 places that would have a family apartment. Since you're trying to cover so much I'm guessing this is a first trip to Europe? His book gives tons of practical advice for planning your trip and lots of useful information about sites etc.

Adding more days is great, but you would still need to cut if you don't want to go crazy and spend the whole time sniping at each other. Even if you add 10 days, here is what you are going to do:
Land in London May 23. Four nights, depart May 27--jet lagged afternoon, three days. Still tight for London.
Half day or more of travel to Paris, four nights, depart May 31--evening and three days. Still tight for Paris.
Half day or more to Frankfurt. Two nights, depart June 2--evening and a day. Maybe at this point you can do laundry?
Half day to Munich. Three nights, depart June 5--afternoon and two days. No side trips to Dachau or Füssen.
Half day to Zürich. Two nights, depart June 7--afternoon and one day. See the Swiss Alps from a distance.
Half day to Milan. Two nights, depart June 9--afternoon and one day. You still haven't had time to just sit in a cafe.
Half day to Rome. Three nights, depart June 13--afternoon and two days. All this rushing and people are getting snippy.
Full day to Barcelona. Three nights, depart June 16--two full days. Another city, another two days of rushing around seeing the sights.
Half day to Cordoba. Two nights, depart June 18. You have accomplished your trip, but you are worn out, feel like you missed a whole lot in every city and will have to revisit, and spent a total of five days of your itinerary just traveling from place to place.

Next year, you book the same trip, hitting the things you missed in each place. Both years you spend tons of money and time and energy on transport.

Again, train is great for an easier way to travel--but you are still beholden to schedules. You are hauling luggage from hotel to station, eating station food (fine here and there, but you could instead be enjoying local cuisine), sitting still and watching the world rush by, hauling luggage from station to hotel, spending time checking in, etc. Now add in the inevitable time at each hotel spent settling into the room, changing clothes, and going to the bathroom and you lost still more time in each place--and your shoulders are sore.

Each city will have a crazy tight itinerary--we have to be at X place by this time so we can still get tickets to this museum, where we have exactly one hour. We have pre-booked this site at this time. I know we just spotted this cool eatery, but we have to pass or we won't have time to see the Eiffel Tower during our stay. We still haven't recovered from our jetlag this long in because we have been on the GO GO GO.

Have you been abroad before? Every one of your senses will be overloaded--European cars feel and smell different.
The sounds are different. You might not be able to read the language. Your brain will be exhausted even in a place like London, which is easy and where the language is the same. When you are trying to figure out the basics like public transport or remembering which way to look when crossing the street, that takes mental energy, even if it isn't hard. Walking on concrete or cobbles for extended times is exhausting. Museums require brain breaks.

I have done fairly ambitious itineraries, but with a full tour. Zero logistics, bus and guide, prepurchased tickets, door to door hotel, luggage assistance, a guide who can troubleshoot, a guide who can tell you what you are seeing so you neither miss things nor have to spend time / energy researching. And these are great, but still exhausting after 10 days.

I still think you should cut. Even with added days I would cut Frankfurt, Milan, and Cordoba, maybe even Zurich.
OR
I would cut by country / region and save those for the next trip.

Re: your question on the utility of Eurail for this trip.

I use the Eurail Senior Global Pass and have absolutely no problems in using it and making it work effectively.

For your itinerary , however, and trip duration, that of basically 2 weeks, that would not be my advice. Your trip is far too short , at least a month for effective use of the Eurail Pass and then still it depends. After you have decided on which cities to drop, then plan on adv. train tickets.

With a group of seven, you absolutely need to have disciplined travel goals and uniform travel styles so as to avoid or eliminate bickering.

Just because you are traveling as a group does not necessarily mean sticking together all hours of the day if your interests and priorities do not coincide, ie, split up and rendezvous a few hours later.

The makeup of this group of 7 is still unknown.
Are there children, seniors, all adults, or?
This is important to be able to help you.

If you are extending the trip by a few days, perhaps consider staying in only 3 places total, and having day trips from each one.
Take trains and public transport.
A vehicle for 7 would have to be quite a large van, and who will be driving it? And trying to park it in little European streets?
Has anyone driven overseas in the past?
Going between countries can be difficult with rental vehicles.

Definitely don’t fly in and out of the same airport.
Perhaps fly into London, then fly home from the place you choose that is furthest away at the end of the trip.
If you plan to leave in May, you had better get busy reserving air travel and accommodations right now!

Also, most major sites…museums, castles, etc…. in Europe now require advance fixed date and time reservations, as so many people are traveling now and they all want to see the same things, so it’s very busy.

Hotels may be best for your first trip to Europe.
(Is this your first trip?)

Does everyone in the group have the same interests?
Have you had a meeting with them all to make plans?
Will you be the one who organizes everyone?
Will they all be happy with your choices, if you are?
I have travelled in groups, it’s very hard to please everyone.
I now travel solo or with one particular best friend only!

Not trying to discourage you, but this seems like an absolutely mammoth task for you to be planning very late in the game.
You have less than 3 months…..

Trim it down, have a meeting, get input from the group, and delegate tasks to the group.

Just to add, nailing down your itinerary is pressing as your trip is just a few months away. I'll agree that we need to know MUCH more about the group you're traveling with, and that you need to cut some destinations regardless. Moving 7 people to 9 destinations over 6 countries will be expensive and time-consuming, and a potentially miserable experience for all if the timeline is short. Very tight itineraries are also recipes for headache should not everything go like clockwork.

Hotels: you're going to have to book multiple rooms to accommodate 7. Again, the age make-up of your group comes into play here. Apartments can also be a solution but many have additional fees, such as cleaning, that can make them less cost efficient for just a night or two versus longer stays, and many consider pull-outs in shared living spaces as "beds". If you are 7 ADULTS, that's not a great plan. As well, you're likely going to want more than 1 bathroom. Hotels will often hold your luggage so you can start sightseeing before check-in; not as possible with rentals. Sure, you can pay to stow it at bag-storage services near train stations but, well, just another detail.

Finalizing the itinerary ASAP is also of concern depending on what you are planning on sightseeing at your chosen destinations. Many of the most popular require advance, timed-entry tickets that can sell out quickly for high-season months so you're going to need to be ready to jump on them when they become available. Tours are also an option depending on ages and budget. More info, please?

You do not want a car in cities. Can everyone lift their own luggage on and off trains?-you cannot check luggage on trains. Choose 4 cities at most-your itinerary would be overwhelming to me and I've been to Europe 16 times. Do not try to copy group tour itineraries-the tour's handling of logistics enables people to see more places in a small amount of time.

Once you have decided on your itinerary, buy(or read at the library) the relevant Rick Steves guides-his info on public transportation is great and I also sometimes use the accommodations that are recommended. Be sure to consider whether or not you need an elevator or can take your luggage up steps to your rooms.

Alice long,

Alice, as you can see in the responses, you have a lot of work ahead of you. Please, please readjust your expectations. If not, maybe you should hire a travel agent to make your arrangements. Everyone has given you good advice, based on their many, many experiences in European travel. Best of luck for your trip!

Alice?
Have you made some plans yet?
It would be interesting to hear what you have decided and perhaps booked.

Alice long,
Interested in hearing from you re your plans, and the make-up of your group. Any decisions made yet?