Europe -- Six Weeks -- Question 1 & 2

Thank you for the suggestions.

Here's our Wishlist:

Lisbon - Madrid - Barcelona - French Riviera - Florence - Rome - Venice - Lucerne - Zurich - Innsbruck - Salzburg - Vienna - Prague - Krakow - Berlin - Amsterdam - Antwerp - Brussels - Bruges

I've looked through the train web-sites and these are all connected in some form for transportation. Now... is this possible in 6 weeks WITHOUT feeling like we were pulled behind the train? How much down time or "errand" days should be allowed?

Question 3: What place/city/town on the French Riviera is nice? In terms of beauty, not nightlife.

Question 4 Of the places listed, which are most prohibitive in cost -- so that we can reduce the time spent there?

Much thanks,
Lane and Britt

Hi Lane and Britt,

I have some Rick Steves DVDs, including his "Travel Tips" series. On it he makes an excellent recommendation that you start off by writing down everything that you want to see. I recommend you do this as each place requires different amounts of time to see everything there, so it is difficult to give you a flat-out number of places to visit. As well, you will need to factor in travel time to get around everywhere.

You should prioritize your list to places that you must see on this trip, and then go down through the "want to see" places. After, if you are then having difficulty determining the number of days to spend in each place, I encourage you to post again with the places and I am sure you will get a vast number of responses, which will hopefully let you filter out the places that you do not have time for - again, based on your priorities.

Regarding the age limit on hostels, it depends on which one and in which place. Many hostels are familiy-oriented, while others have an age limit of around 25. I remember when I was looking for a hostel in Lucerne, Switzerland, and I was told that there were three: a youth hostel, a backpackers hostel, and a family hostel. The backpackers hostel did not have an age limit to it, but was not as friendly to families. So there is a lot of choice, and I am afraid it will require a bit of research. Again, I would be willing to help out and I guarantee you that once you have specific areas we will all be more than willing to help you narrow down the details.

Planning my backpacking trip was a lot of work, but one minute of preparation time will save you ten minutes on the road. Enjoy the whole process!

I'll try to answer your first question by way of example. The longest trip I have taken to Europe for purely touristic reasons was also 6 weeks. I began in St. Petersburg and gradually made my way west through Vilnius, Warsaw, Krakow, Prague, Munich, Garmisch-Partenkirchen (with several daytrips), Lindau, Interlaken, Dijon, Amboise, Normandy, Chartres, and left via CDG airport. Spread out over that period, I felt I had time to see just about everything I wanted, I was never travel fatigued, and travel times between destinations were, for the most part, not very long. So, if you piece together a geographically feasible itinerary, hopefully this can roughly guide you on how much territory you can reasonably and comfortably cover. One slight caveat- I took this trip during the springtime, when many of the destinations and roads are far less congested than summer.

I can't comment on your itinerary until you reach Lucerne. Zurich and Vienna are probably the most expensive after leaving the south. From what I can see, with a few exceptions, the transit times between each city aren't particularly long. Some are so short that you could conceivably even make them into day trips.

Not many hostels have age limits, but you don't need to stick to only hostels for cheap accommodation. During the summer, look into lodging for travelers offered by European universities in vacant dormitories. You can often get a private room for 2 with your own bathroom, breakfast and access to laundry and internet facilities at prices similar to hostels. Other options - convents (but check their rules ahead of time as some have strict curfews for guests), B&Bs, guesthouses, and even budget hotel chains with online deals on rooms. Most hostels charge per bunk - typically 20 to 30 Euro per person, per night. If you request a private room in a hostel, the price often goes up to 70 or 80 Euro a night. For 2 traveling together, you can sometimes do better elsewhere.

To avoid feeling worn out, I would recommend you consider spending at least 3 days at each overnight stop. As Tom mentioned, some of your destinations are so close to each other you can base in one city and day tour to the others (i.e, Bruges, Brussels, Antwerp).

Estimate you will lose anywhere from 1/2 a day to a full day of sightseeing whenever you change destinations. Account for the time it takes to pack up and check out of one hostel, get to the train station, travel, get to your next hostel, check in, unpack and get your bearings. You will also lose time each week as you'll need to get laundry done and run other errands (food shopping - unless you will eat out all the time).

Read reviews of hostels carefully on hostelworld.com or bugeurope.com - see what other travelers have to say about the cleanliness, location, safety and atmosphere (party hostel vs. mellow/family hostel) before you book it.

Lane, first of all, it's wonderful that you're able to take a trip like this with your daughter. Due to a variety of circumstances, I've never been able to travel in the same way with my Sons.

To begin with, if you haven't already read Europe Through The Back Door, I'd recommend that you pick up a copy. It provides a LOT of information on travelling in Europe, including Itinerary planning. Pay particular attention to the "Rail Skills" section; you might want to download the free PDF Rail Guide from this website.

In looking at your "wish list", IMHO that's too many cities to comfortably see in 6-weeks (ie: so you don't feel like you've been "pulled behind the train"). I'd suggest adding a few places to the list and deleting some, until you reach a more "manageable" number. Keep in mind you'll have to allow for transportation times between cities.

Some of the other places you might want to have a look at are the Cinque Terre (Italy) and the Berner Oberland region (Switzerland), specifically the area around the small village of Gimmelwald. Have a look at Rick's shows on PBS (or perhaps order the DVD's) to see whether these might interest you. I noticed you don't have any stops in the U.K. listed?

As usual, I'd highly recommend using "open jaw" flights for best efficiency. It avoids the time and cost of returning to your starting point. Note that you'll lose your first day in flight times and time zone changes (esp. from the west coast), so be sure to allow for that.

Try to plan your route in a somewhat logical sequence, so that you don't do any "backtracking". Don't spend too much time on transportation until you have a rough idea of your Itinerary and order of cities. Rail is usually the least expensive, however for longer legs budget flights are more efficient (however there's a few "pitfalls" to be aware of with the budget carriers - more on that later if you need details).

continued......

How come Paris is not on your list?

Lane, part 2....

Regarding Hostels, the only place that I know of with age restrictions is the province of Bavaria in southern Germany. You might have a look at the HI Hostels as they have properties in most countries, and the facilities are fairly consistent from one location to the next (slightly reduced cost if you have a Membership - see the website for details). Also have a look at Hostelworld for listings.

For the least expensive Hostel rooms, you'll probably be looking at Dorm rooms. Some Hostels have co-ed Dorms, and some are segregated by gender. There are some double rooms available, however these are fairly popular and tend to book up quickly. You might also consider mixing your accommodations with budget Hotels, as the costs may not be much different than a Hostel. Check the listings in Rick's Guidebooks, as there are some good "basic" Hotels listed there in various price ranges.

Now that someone else has mentioned it, I didn't notice that Paris wasn't on the list. Have you been there already?

Good luck with your planning!

Lane & Britt:

I echo what others have said - too many destinations!
I also question missing Paris - a wonderful city and if you can go in August you will find prices are much more reasonable. While I agree you do not want to spend your time and money on elaborate hotels, nothing energizes you like a good night's sleep, so make sure you have lodgings that will give you that.

We did a similar tour in 2005. Chunnel to Paris - Geneva (I would skip that) - Villefranche-sur-mer - Pisa - Cinque Terre - Lucerne - Salzburg - Prague - Vienna - Venice (all by Train), then flew to London. This took about 6 weeks. I say "about" because we had spent time before and after with relatives in Scotland and from Venice we had taken a cruise to Greece, Turkey and Malta, back to Venice. 9-10 weeks all told.

In the Riviera, Villefranche was scenic and handy for Monaco and Nice, with some small pretty places in between.

Enjoy your planning - it is half the enjoyment of the trip, in my opinion.

Hello Lane. I think it is wonderful that you and your daughter can be in Europe for 6 weeks. All the replies that were posted here are excellent. I think all the destinations that you mentioned are an excessive number of destinations, in a six week trip.
I recommend being at each place of overnight accomodation 3 nights, minimum. And I recommend : plan for one unscheduled day in each 7 days. That would give you one day each week, for resting, being at a place long enough to savor the experience of being there, and doing necessary tasks such as washing and drying clothes. And having one unscheduled day each week gives a traveler some slack time : if you experience a delay, caused by a transportation worker's strike, or illness, or any reason, you could change your schedule, and have time to go to all the places that are in your trip itinerary. A trip itinerary and direction of travel is a personal choice of the traveler. I recommend : acquire the book "Rick Steves' EUROPE THROUGH THE BACK DOOR". Spain and Italy can have hot weather in the summer months. Reserve rooms that have air conditioning, in Spain and Italy. In a six week trip in Europe, I recommend planning to go to a mixture of cites and small towns and places in nature (Lake, river, Sea coast, mountains, forest, meadow, farm land, vineyard, ...). Plan time in Europe for doing the kinds of activities that you feel a need to do : be it swimming, horseback riding, exercize using weights, Hatha Yoga, Yoga meditation, singing, getting a massage, talking about your emotional feelings, a nap during the morning or afternoon ...

Thank you for the suggestions -- and I've ordered some of the recommended reading material.

Why not Paris? My daughter and I were there over the Christmas break from college. It was my Christmas present to her. And she LOVED it. Perhaps our favorite day was taking a cooking class with a master chef -- from what I can remember, as he served wine with every course.

Why not the UK? I am engaged to a Brit and we'll be visiting family and friends A LOT. (Yes, the accent sealed the deal).

Thanks much,
Lane and Britt

To be brash and not read all prior responses:

When I was finishing my freshman year of college my brother and I took a six week trip ourselves (he was 24 at the time). Neither of us had been to Europe and we were fairly ambitious but left things flexible, planning one step at a time whilst there. We realized quickly that less is more, cutting out small cities to sacrifice for the more epic, and saving just a few "towns" in our trip as the more culturally unique experience. --The fewer times you travel, the fewer times you waste 8+ hours in the train system--

We did - I think - close to ten countries, hitting the major city in each, which ALWAYS enables day trips to more rural regions. Give each big city at least four nights. Anything else two nights.

Pace the last 3rd of the trip at a slower pace, to avoid burning out. Six weeks is a long time to be on the move.

Anyone can stay at most hostels, but I would have some better recommendations for you and your daughter. Drop me a line for the golden rule of quartering.

I took a 6-week trip 2 summers ago. I, too, had interests all over the continent, so I made it a "best of Cities" trip. I'll go back and hit countries in-depth for the rest of my life. i did: Stratford-upon-avon (for the shakespeare geek in me, 3 nights), Lisbon (5 nights), Barcelona (5 nights), Brussels (4 nights), Amsterdam (4 nights), Copenhagen (5 nights), Vienna (5 nights), Venice (4 nights), Florence (5 nights), Rome (5 nights). By the end of the trip, the only problem I had was my feet hurting. Otherwise, I wasn't burnt out or terribly exhausted, because I gave myself time in each city to enjoy sitting in parks and people-watching, taking early-morning strolls, lingering at breakfast, sleeping a lot, etc. I'd suggest you and your daughter make a list of places you just have to see and then further places that you'd like to see if you can fit in. That's what I did, I started with about 15 cities and ended up whittling it down to 10. I'm sad I missed the French Riviera and Prague and a couple other places, but those 6 weeks were the most enjoyable time in my life - in fact it changed my life in many profound ways - and I think about my trip daily. My greatest advice would be to make sure you leave enough time in each city so that you can let each place affect you in its own unique way. If you do 6 weeks of just running around, you will see a lot of museums and a lot of places, but I think in 6 weeks it might turn into a blur. My trip just made me want more, now I want to take 2-week trips to one, maybe two, countries and see them more in-depth. But i'm thrilled with the trip I ended up taking even though I got a lot of criticism for it.
Ultimately you and your daughter need to do whatever would make you most happy. If you guys like being on the go all the time and unpacking every couple days, go for it. If you really want to soak it all in, you need a minimum of 4 nights in the cities to really soak them in. Just my take. GOOD LUCK!

One other little bit of advice to which some of the other posters alluded: vary your sight-seeing priorities. Although Europe has an amazing selection of art galleries, palaces, cathedrals, town sqares, and pedestrian shopping areas, on a long trip, they can all start to blur together. Even some of the great cities of Europe can be a let-down for the same reason. I probably would have enjoyed my first trip to Munich far more if I hadn't just seen St. Petersburg, Vilnius, Warsaw, Krakow and Prague (and if I hadn't been sick). So, keep your itinerary varied. You may want to substitute some of the cities you listed for rural destinations.